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Medical Forum / Diseases and Disorders / Tinnitus / September 2007Why are people opposed to the mentioning of ginko biloba?
People who don't like to see GB being mentioned in this ng for the following reasons: (1)GB does not work according to what they haver read from the 'controlled' studies. (2)GB has not worked for them. Usually these people are relatively low-keyed as they do allow for the possibility that GB may have worked for others. (3)Professional people such as doctors find GB to be too inexpensive to prescribe in comparison to a huge variety of high-tech/highly expensive treatments they have reserved for their patients. What else? > People who don't like to see GB being mentioned in this ng for the > following reasons: > (1)GB does not work according to what they haver read from the > 'controlled' studies. In my experience it kinda works, but what worked best for me was a fairly unprocessed version, obviously with also other substances from the bark in it. A combination of avoiding extreme noise and not worryting too much about temporary tinnitus increase after "grey zone noise", such as concert applause seems in my experience to work at least as well. > (2)GB has not worked for them. Usually these people are relatively > low-keyed as they do allow for the possibility that GB may have worked > for others. > (3)Professional people such as doctors find GB to be too inexpensive > to prescribe in comparison to a huge variety of high-tech/highly > expensive treatments they have reserved for their patients. Comes across as constituting A conspiracy theory. > What else? It is blood thinner and anticoagulant and a possible cause of hard to control post operation bleeding. It should not be used without taking its effect in combination with other medication in account. The above is just my unskilled opinion based on having tried it and having experienced its main side effect. The worst case side effect is brain hemorrage in a high risk person. My concern with it is not that it doesn't work, it is that it does work. It would be a prescription drug if marketed today and should be treated like one, ie. used on indication AND avoided on contra-indication. Kind regards Peter Larsen > fyfp...@gmail.com wrote: > > People who don't like to see GB being mentioned in this ng for the [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > unprocessed version, obviously with also other substances from the bark in > it. Never mind what the other possible variables are, as the relationship between them could simply be 'correlational', rather than 'causal', in nature. All you need is to acknowledge whether or not it has worked for *you*. > A combination of avoiding extreme noise and not worryting too much about > temporary tinnitus increase after "grey zone noise", such as concert > applause seems in my experience to work at least as well. Your experience does not in a slightest sense vitiate others' experiences in which "grey zone noise" does not work, and thus GB works for them. > > (2)GB has not worked for them. Usually these people are relatively > > low-keyed as they do allow for the possibility that GB may have worked [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > > Comes across as constituting A conspiracy theory. it certainly falls short of any conspiracy but considering the difference in treatment between buying a bottle of GB and visiting an ENT doctor with a result which in many cases is not necessarily any better than taking GB, there arises an unspoken conspiracy not to tell this drug for what it is worth... > > What else? > [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > today and should be treated like one, ie. used on indication AND avoided on > contra-indication. Don't you think this should be true of any drug? It is that when taking this as any other drug, patients don't simply go and buy and put them into the mouths. What else is new? > Kind regards > > Peter Larsen >> fyfp...@gmail.com wrote: >> > People who don't like to see GB being mentioned in this ng for the >><--snipped-->> Forget GB. Why don't you try habituation? > <fyfp...@gmail.com> wrote in message > [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > > Forget GB. Why don't you try habituation? GB works for *some* while habituation works for *some*. Is this quantum physics to you? On Sep 26, 8:06 am, "fyfp...@gmail.com" <fyfp...@gmail.com> wrote: > > <fyfp...@gmail.com> wrote in message > [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > GB works for *some* while habituation works for *some*. Is this > quantum physics to you? No, it is idiocy. Which is what all of your posts boild down to. On 9 27 , 9 49 , BaldBastardBus...@hotmail.com wrote: > On Sep 26, 8:06 am, "fyfp...@gmail.com" <fyfp...@gmail.com> wrote: > [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] > > No, it is idiocy. Which is what all of your posts boild down to. Then why are you reading it, you trash? On Sep 24, 8:34 am, "fyfp...@gmail.com" <fyfp...@gmail.com> wrote: > People who don't like to see GB being mentioned in this ng for the > following reasons: [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > > What else? Its like most remedies concerning tinnitus. It is there to be tested. If it works then that is a happy outcome. My position is do not get your hopes up, thats all. Best regards John On Sep 24, 1:34 am, "fyfp...@gmail.com" <fyfp...@gmail.com> wrote: > People who don't like to see GB being mentioned in this ng for the > following reasons: [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > > What else? Anything you recommend is suspect, jerko. On 9 27 , 9 48 , BaldBastardBus...@hotmail.com wrote: > On Sep 24, 1:34 am, "fyfp...@gmail.com" <fyfp...@gmail.com> wrote: > [quoted text clipped - 13 lines] > > Anything you recommend is suspect, jerko. Any word from your mouth is reflective of the lowest social echelon dwellers....or the trash! Just like old days folks. mud slinging. Elly -*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-* Discovery consists of looking at the same thing as everyone else and thinking something different. Roger von Oech "Discovery consists of seeing what everybody else has seen and thinking what nobody else has thought." Jonathon Swift, the author of Gulliver's Travels http://eebee.net/ >On 9 27 , 9 48 , BaldBastardBus...@hotmail.com wrote: >> On Sep 24, 1:34 am, "fyfp...@gmail.com" <fyfp...@gmail.com> wrote: [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] >Any word from your mouth is reflective of the lowest social echelon >dwellers....or the trash!  SignaturePosted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com > Just like old days folks. mud slinging. > > Elly Thanks, Elly. Best regards from Stephen Nagler and Ron Yoli. At least you no longer have that absurd "Tinnitus is a Pain in the Neck" sig. > >> Anything you recommend is suspect, jerko. > [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > -- > Posted via a free Usenet account fromhttp://www.teranews.com I have changed the sig. But I have NOT changed my mind about Tinnitus being a pain in the neck. Tinnitus is still a pain in the neck! Elly -*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-* Discovery consists of looking at the same thing as everyone else and thinking something different. Roger von Oech "Discovery consists of seeing what everybody else has seen and thinking what nobody else has thought." Jonathon Swift, the author of Gulliver's Travels http://eebee.net/ >> Just like old days folks. mud slinging. >> [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] >At least you no longer have that absurd "Tinnitus is a Pain in the >Neck" sig. >> Posted via a free Usenet account fromhttp://www.teranews.com SignaturePosted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com > I have changed the sig. > But I have NOT changed my mind about Tinnitus being a pain in the > neck. > > Tinnitus is still a pain in the neck! You can see how dogmatic this spokesman from 'Stephen Nagler and Ron Yoli' or the defeated corps is. He even refuses to recognize at least *one* of the causes of tinnitus can be muscle-related. On the other hand, he produces no empirical proof of his view but simply came in and sh.t. The only way to deal with this type of irrational individuals is either to ignore them or club them. I choose to club them. > Elly > [quoted text clipped - 28 lines] > > - - > You can see how dogmatic this spokesman from 'Stephen Nagler and Ron > Yoli' or the defeated corps is. He even refuses to recognize at least > *one* of the causes of tinnitus can be muscle-related. On the other > hand, he produces no empirical proof of his view but simply came in > and sh.t. I thought you did not believe in controlled studies, genius. So what other kinds of empirical proof do you value? > The only way to deal with this type of irrational individuals is > either to ignore them or club them. I choose to club them. I would be real careful about issuing threats if I were you. Thank God I'm not. Pretty thin-skinned, aren't you? On 9 29 , 9 24 , BaldBastardBus...@hotmail.com wrote: > > You can see how dogmatic this spokesman from 'Stephen Nagler and Ron > > Yoli' or the defeated corps is. He even refuses to recognize at least [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > > I would be real careful about issuing threats if I were you. Issuing threats? I have been clubbing the rubbish ng participants for a long long time and I have been doing so in many ngs and in particular the Canadian ngs. These are the participants who don't come in for a decent debate but instead for personal attacks. Oh, I see. You are mistaking 'clubbing' as a form of physical motion. No, it is not physical but rather intellectual. When I call you trash, I don't do that for no logical reason. After all, with all that 'education' you have got, you are still retaining a bad habit, which is reminiscient of a caste of immigrants to the US who came here from the LOWEST social echelon in their home countries. Even modern day education is having a hard time eradicating this bad habit from them. Now, let me clarify what my definition of TRASH means, so that you will become less defensive from now on. A piece of trash is someone whose learning in life has stopped as a result of character stubbernness. In addition, he stands in the way of others who want to learn. In all your reaction to my posts, you have never demonstrated why I said is wrong but instead you keep calling me idiots, jerkos..and to do so without realizing you are actually calling me by what you have been called. Now, should you want to demonstrate your views in a debate or continue to be called TRASH? If you enjoy the latter, please say so. Thank > God I'm not. Pretty thin-skinned, aren't you? I don't see how skin color or thickness has anything to do with my response to your stupid intrusion. The word 'trash' does not have to involve any of that in order to exist. > - - > > - - > Just like old days folks. mud slinging. Some defeated corps want to regain their territory but, lacking the intellectual ability to do so, resort to personal attacks. I have never allowed this sort of bad habit to go unpunished. > Elly > [quoted text clipped - 23 lines] > -- > Posted via a free Usenet account fromhttp://www.teranews.com > Any word from your mouth is reflective of the lowest social echelon > dwellers....or the trash! "lowest social echelon dwellers [sic]." My, you truly have a way with non-sequitors. If one did not know you suffered from brain damage, one might think you hailed from Outer Mongolia. On 9 28 , 11 38 , BaldBastardBus...@hotmail.com wrote: > > Any word from your mouth is reflective of the lowest social echelon > > dwellers....or the trash! [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > If one did not know you suffered from brain damage, one might think > you hailed from Outer Mongolia. How do you know anyone suffers from brain damage online? What is wrong with anyone from outer Mongolia? Do you have any other trash to throw at aside from your inability to come in for a decent debate? On Sep 24, 1:34 am, "fyfp...@gmail.com" <fyfp...@gmail.com> wrote: > People who don't like to see GB being mentioned in this ng for the > following reasons: [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > > What else? Hey, fool. Controlled studies are how science establishes truth. Get it? I guess not, But others can see that the latest scientific study on Ginko proves it to be absolutely worthless for tinnitus. Read this: http://www.blackwell-synergy.com/doi/abs/10.1111/j.1365-2273.2004.00814.x. Now, what about people who claim it works for them? Well, ever hear of the placebo effect? Probably not. On 9 29 , 11 04 , BaldBastardBus...@hotmail.com wrote: > On Sep 24, 1:34 am, "fyfp...@gmail.com" <fyfp...@gmail.com> wrote: > [quoted text clipped - 13 lines] > > Hey, fool. Controlled studies are how science establishes truth. Get > it? I guess not, I thought this group is totally through with that: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/sites/entrez?cmd=Retrieve&db=PubMed&list_uids=120515 70&dopt=AbstractPlus But others can see that the latest scientific study > on Ginko > proves it to be absolutely worthless for tinnitus. [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > Now, what about people who claim it works for them? Well, ever hear > of the placebo effect? Probably not.
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