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Medical Forum / Diseases and Disorders / Tinnitus / July 2007Tinnitus & Autoimmune Link?
I have a malfunctioning immune system. Antigens such as normal gut bacteria and common dietary proteins further provoke it to inflame my intestines (ileum & colon), joints (mainly hips, shoulders, fingers), nerves (CTS, sciatica, neck, tinnitus), tendons (under foot) and skin (hands, behind ears). Regardless of various diets, supplements, yoga, meditation and medication, the tinnitus has been slowly but steadily worsening. At times, rocking in a recliner produces transient spikes in noise and feeling of dizziness. Another peculiar aspect that I have noticed during the middle of the night, the high pitched tone become a buzz as dreams begin. Supposedly Endocrine Disrupters can cause autoimmune diseases. Currently I am consider three common ones in my case: 1) Mercury from amalgams which is know to accumulate in nervous system and especially in hypothalamus/pituitary. http://adr.iadrjournals.org/cgi/reprint/6/1/110.pdf 2) Plasticizer like phthalates (ie DEHP) which was recently shown to cause Lupus in genetically suscetible mice and increases allergic reactions to common antigens. Found in carpet backing, vinyl flooring, wall coverings, airducts, shower curtains, plastic parts, cosmetics, etc. http://www.ehponline.org/docs/2005/113-12/forum.html http://www.ourstolenfuture.org/NewScience/oncompounds/phthalates/2006/2006-1010t akanoetal.html http://www.ewg.org/node/17286 3) PerFluoroChemicals (PFCs like teflon, silverstone, scotchguard). Found in cookware, carpets, furniture, clothing, etc. http://www.ewg.org/node/21726 Has anyone seen an improvement by reducing the above from their lifestyle? Has anyone tried Low Dose Naltrexone (LDN) Therapy (http:// www.lowdosenaltrexone.org/ldn_and_ai.htm) for Tinnitus? > I have a malfunctioning immune system. Antigens such as normal gut > bacteria and common dietary proteins further provoke it to inflame my [quoted text clipped - 30 lines] > lifestyle? Has anyone tried Low Dose Naltrexone (LDN) Therapy (http:// > www.lowdosenaltrexone.org/ldn_and_ai.htm) for Tinnitus? Get some midnight salivary cortisol tests to see if it's your own pituitary doing the damage. Susan > Get some midnight salivary cortisol tests to see if it's your own > pituitary doing the damage. Since I also have Chronic Fatigue Syndrome, it is likely that my cortisol level has been low. Currently, I am on 20 mg prednisone per day so my cortisol should be approximaltey 4X that which is normal. The higher than natural dosage provides the desired immune supression. See below article that links endocrine system, beta-endorphins and autoimmune disease. Hypothalamic Beta-Endorphin Concentrations are Decreased in Animals Models of Autoimmune Disease. Complex interactions between the neuroendocrine and the immune systems are present in autoimmune diseases. The central opioid peptide beta- endorphin (BE) has been shown to modulate peripheral immune responses in normal animals. In the present study we analyze the hypothalamic concentrations of this peptide in two models of spontaneous autoimmune disease, the MRL lpr/lpr mouse, that develops a lupus-like autoimmune disease, and the obese strain (OS) chickens afflicted with spontaneous autoimmune thyroiditis. In both instances, hypothalamic concentrations of BE are significantly lower than normal controls. In MRL lpr/lpr mice, BE is already lower at 1 month of age, when no clinical sign of the disease is yet present. Similarly, low levels of BE are observed in OS chickens before the onset of thyroiditis, i.e., already at the embryonic stage. Moreover, a further decrease of BE is observed in OS chickens in correspondence with the first signs of thyroid mononuclear infiltration. Considering the immunosuppressive effects exerted by central BE, these results are suggestive of the fact that in autoimmune disease prone animals the low hypothalamic concentrations may be one of several factors predisposing for the development of autoimmune disease. PMID: 10408966 >>Get some midnight salivary cortisol tests to see if it's your own >>pituitary doing the damage. > > Since I also have Chronic Fatigue Syndrome, it is likely that my > cortisol level has been low. Not exactly. At least one study I read found that 14 out of 16 hypercortisolemic people also had it. I was diagnosed with it for years. With CFS, there's HPA dysregulation, loss of diurnal rhythm, and highs mixed with lows, but not all lows. Currently, I am on 20 mg prednisone per > day so my cortisol should be approximaltey 4X that which is normal. > The higher than natural dosage provides the desired immune supression. > See below article that links endocrine system, beta-endorphins and > autoimmune disease. Uh, no. Prednisone suppresses your cortisol, it shuts down your adrenals. > Hypothalamic Beta-Endorphin Concentrations are Decreased in Animals > Models of Autoimmune Disease. Or they cause alleged auto immune diseases? I was diagnosed with CFS for almost a decade, then with chronic tick borne diseases (which I have, well documented). I also have Cushing's disease, and have tested low in the past, and high at midnight. Susan >> Currently, I am on 20 mg prednisone per day ... > > Uh, no. Prednisone suppresses your cortisol, > it shuts down your adrenals. Roughly, the liver converts prednisone to cortisol. The hypothalamus sensing the cortisol, reduces the signal to pituitary which reduces signal to adrenal to produce cortisol. So yes, prednisone will likely shut down adrenal's output of cortisol, but the actual level of in the blood will be high. In my case, this is desired in order to suppress the main symptom: inflamed intestines. > I was diagnosed with CFS for almost a decade, then with > chronic tick borne diseases (which I have, well documented). > I also have Cushing's disease, and have tested low in the past, > and high at midnight. Interesting, I read up on Cushing's Syndrome/Disease. Per wiki, a tumor in the pituitary can result in high levels of cortisol. Other main symptoms include rapid weight gain, "moon face", excess sweating, thinning of the skin, purple or red striae, proximal muscle weakness, and hirsutism. A common sign is the growth of fat pads along the collar bone and on the back of the neck. The excess cortisol may also affect other endocrine systems and cause, for example, reduced libido, impotence, amenorrhoea and infertility. Patients frequently suffer various psychological disturbances, ranging from euphoria to frank psychosis. Depression and anxiety, including panic attacks, are common. In general, I don't match the above symptoms. however we may both suffer from some form of endocrine disruption/damage. > Roughly, the liver converts prednisone to cortisol. The hypothalamus > sensing the cortisol, reduces the signal to pituitary which reduces > signal to adrenal to produce cortisol. So yes, prednisone will likely > shut down adrenal's output of cortisol, but the actual level of in the > blood will be high. In my case, this is desired in order to suppress > the main symptom: inflamed intestines. The problem is that chronically high cortisol increases inflammation and causes a host of other problems. Cortisol is not elevated by Prednisone, prednisone replaces your own adrenal output, ultimately. > Interesting, I read up on Cushing's Syndrome/Disease. Per wiki, a > tumor in the pituitary can result in high levels of cortisol. Other [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > In general, I don't match the above symptoms. however we may both > suffer from some form of endocrine disruption/damage. Neither do I, the literature oversimplifies. Symptoms tend to include both those of primary adrenal insufficiency, too, but they separate them as if they don't both occur with Cushing's. I've had various symptoms and signs over the decades, but not all together, or I might've been diagnosed. I'm slim, fatigued, thin face which is no longer red, but at times it was, thinning skin. There's a spectrum that includes subclinical disease. It's kind of the same stupidity that went into naming CFS for fatigue when it's so much more complex and nuanced. Susan > > Roughly, ... > > Cortisol is not elevated by Prednisone, Per http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/glucocorticoid, you are correct. Prednisone does not elevate cortisol, but the net effect is equivalent to approx four times that of cortisol. > The problem is that chronically high cortisol increases inflammation > and causes a host of other problems. No doubt, telling your body to be in fight/flight mode all the time is going to be stressfull. And yet, being in stress is what supresses the immune system which reduces allergies and chronically inflamed guts. Prednisone is used for months and sometimes years to suppress gut inflammation (at the expense of "moon face", etc). >>>Roughly, ... >> [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > Prednisone does not elevate cortisol, but the net effect is equivalent > to approx four times that of cortisol. Exactly, which is why/how it's so damaging, ultimately. > No doubt, telling your body to be in fight/flight mode all the time is > going to be stressfull. And yet, being in stress is what supresses the > immune system which reduces allergies and chronically inflamed guts. > Prednisone is used for months and sometimes years to suppress gut > inflammation (at the expense of "moon face", etc). It also destroys your anti inflammatory responses and makes worse what it's intended to treat. Susan >I have a malfunctioning immune system. Antigens such as normal gut >bacteria and common dietary proteins further provoke it to inflame my >intestines (ileum & colon), joints (mainly hips, shoulders, fingers), Hi Jay, There is definately a link. I have mb Crohn myself, and also tinnitus. I have found a handfull of other Crohns / Colitis Ulcera patients who also had tinnitus. My theory for my self so far has been that it was nerve damage in the ear, caused by lack of B12 vitamin. But if you have not had surgery? then this is probably no the cause. I have had a total of 70 cm (~28 inches) of the small intestines removed. Med venlig hilsen Nicolai  Signaturehttp://nicolai.hjorth.com > There is definately a link. I have mb Crohn myself, and also tinnitus. > I have found a handfull of other Crohns / Colitis Ulcera patients who > also had tinnitus. My theory for my self so far has been that > it was nerve damage in the ear, caused by lack of B12 vitamin. > I have had a total of 70 cm (~28 inches) of the small intestines > removed. Thanks, I'll have to check my B12. How do you manage to get your B12 now? Sublingually or via injections? What medications are you taking to control your Crohn's? Does your doctor check your endocrine system (ie endorphins, ACTH, cortisol, thyroid levels)? Is your tinnitus improving, stable or deteriorating? On 7/1/07 4:53 PM, in article 1183334013.373071.190790@k79g2000hse.googlegroups.com, "jay" >> There is definately a link. I have mb Crohn myself, and also tinnitus. >> I have found a handfull of other Crohns / Colitis Ulcera patients who [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > (ie endorphins, ACTH, cortisol, thyroid levels)? Is your tinnitus > improving, stable or deteriorating? Shemesh Z,: Vitamin B12 deficiency in patients with chronic-tinnitus and noise-induced hearing loss. Am J Otolaryngol. 1993 Mar-Apr;14(2):94-9. Injection is probably best but sublingual is good. Oral is poorly absorbed. >Injection is probably best but sublingual is good. Oral is poorly absorbed. Isn't the poor oral absorbtion only if you have had part of the small intestines removed? Especially the part just after the large instestines? I had my B12 absorbtion meausered to "very low" some 10 years ago - it was a schilling test where I had a tablet of radioactive B12 and they measured the level of radioactive in urine from 24 hours. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Schilling_test Med venlig hilsen Nicolai Signaturehttp://nicolai.hjorth.com Nagliared to death everywhere. Another sock pupput hits the news groups. Currently in use: rH//phlctErse//Digi//AuqtyJack//A{nty//.Hfress//Pixie//Lectron_Nuis//M II//Venlig Hilsen//You//wmbjk//William P.N. Smith//Aunt}K//9 foot 3//5 foot 2//5feet-24inches//You//Digi// //<.>" <<.>@mine.net//Me//ferret//lé.ÞeemÞ//®Hæress//�H�ss //PurriePrPr//colin//.Hfress//frug//Taz//Tazoar//T@z//dob.a.TROLL//P.BENGI//Digi//JohnTuttle//.Haress//GimmieButt//John Latelee//Eunty JEck//Aunty Jack//Bunty Jack//Thunnus Albacarus//Gimmie Bob//Pizza Girl//Mrs Marples//anonymous//helga//wingnut//Nemisis.0.GimmeButt//JimmyB0ND//Paul Vader//windows.embroidery.Gymmy//John P Bungle//Shyl0rk//Shyl0rk//Hatunen//Lectr0Nuis//LectroQuis//slew_m//BugHunter//fant0m//KazAdz//Gabriel//tictactoe//guesswho//f00//nope//stuphn.Tulip.Bulbs.up.de.Dyke.Diver//windows.embroidery.Gymmy//Judge_Dread//de.troll.is//snuph.m// ...AND a miriad of other munged versions of the above// >>Injection is probably best but sublingual is good. Oral is poorly >>absorbed. [quoted text clipped - 13 lines] > Med venlig hilsen > Nicolai > Isn't the poor oral absorbtion only if you have had part of the small > intestines removed? Especially the part just after the large > instestines? Not necessarily. A lot is destroyed in digestion, which is why injection, sublingual or even a new patch/transdermal form is better used. Susan >Thanks, I'll have to check my B12. How do you manage to get your B12 >now? Sublingually or via injections? Injections (the drug is called Vibeden) every 2-2½ month. >What medications are you taking >to control your Crohn's? Nothing from the hospital (excpect Questran - you probably know it as Colestid) to control diareaa caused by bileacid. I take a mixture of vitamins etc - most are recommended ny a specialist in orthomulecular medicin at http://iom.dk/: Omega 3 Fish Oil 1000 mg 2 + 3 Hjulkrone oil (Omega 6 / GLA) 500 mg 1 + 2 Tidseloil (CLA) 400 mg 1 + 1 Magnesium 200 mg 1 + 2 VitaMax (kombi vitamin) 0 + 3 - see http://vitaviva.com for content UniKalk Forte (19 ug D3) 1 +1 Biorto Zink 30 mg 0 + 1 L-Glutamine 1000 mg 1 + 1 Melatonine 3 mg + Baldrian at night to sleep >Does your doctor check your endocrine system >(ie endorphins, ACTH, cortisol, thyroid levels)? Ha! No way - that costs money :S I am a bit dissillusionised by our medical system. Here we pay huge amount in income tax (>55%) + sales tax (25%) + for instance 225% registration tax on a car. We think we have the best healthcare system world wide. Well, we have the cheapest in the sense that you do not have to bring money to go see a doctor. Anyway, after presenting an article about male testosterone defficiency to my GP (I had most of the symptoms) he referred me to a private endocrine specialist (free because it went through my GP). This specialist checked most things and found my vitamin D to be alarmingly low (which gives about same symptoms as low testosterone - who would have guessed that). So that is why I am on UniKalk Forte (calcium + D). >Is your tinnitus >improving, stable or deteriorating? It was improving - but the past 2 weeks I think it has been worse. Maybe because it took 2½ month not 2 before the injection. Or maybe because I am a bit stressed out. Anyway only 1 week and 1 day before 3 weeks holiday. Yay! Med venlig hilsen Nicolai Signaturehttp://nicolai.hjorth.com
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