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Medical Forum / Diseases and Disorders / Tinnitus / June 2007Can high blood pressure be cured?
I have high blood pressure and have been taking pills daily for years. From time to time I see advertisements of all sorts of herbal methods that can 'cure' high blood pressure. I think those who are not suffering from hereditary causes may have a chance of getting their high blood pressure cured but hereditary caused hbp in my view cannot be cured. Does anyone here know or have the experience of this? Tks On 4/23/07 9:03 AM, in article 1177344233.878839.37610@p77g2000hsh.googlegroups.com, "fyfpoon@gmail.com" > I have high blood pressure and have been taking pills daily for > years. From time to time I see advertisements of all sorts of herbal [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > > Tks I notice that in the advertisements for the herbal cures the testamonials all come from persons who look very handsome, healthy and very happy. I wish some of my patients were that happy, handsome and healthy looking. With that kind of "results" I guess the guy selling the herbs knows better than the MD who spent 10 years learning how to treat this condition - or does it. > > I have high blood pressure and have been taking pills daily for > > years. From time to time I see advertisements of all sorts of herbal [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > > > > Does anyone here know or have the experience of this? Yeah, eat raw foods, sprout your starches (grains/legumes/grains/peas), and consume small amounts of nuts and seeds. Add some garlic and red onion and throw out the frying pan forever. On an animal fat free diet (only vegetable oil will come from avocados and young coconuts) you'll be feeling 20 years or more younger in no time. Raw foods take away your temptation for all the heart killing foods. Its all in the temptation. > Yeah, eat raw foods, sprout your starches > (grains/legumes/grains/peas), and consume small amounts of nuts and [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > younger in no time. Raw foods take away your temptation for all the > heart killing foods. Its all in the temptation. f.ck that. I load up on grass fed dairy and meat and wild caught fish, veggies, nuts and olives. My diet is about 50% fat, about a third of that from animals/dairy. I cook most of it. I lowered my cholesterol and my bp to low risk from the highest risk decile that way. I top it all off with some very dark chocolate, for medicinal purposes. Susan > > > I have high blood pressure and have been taking pills daily for > > > years. From time to time I see advertisements of all sorts of herbal [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] > younger in no time. Raw foods take away your temptation for all the > heart killing foods. Its all in the temptation. That is very good dietary advice. Vince > > > I have high blood pressure and have been taking pills daily for > > > years. From time to time I see advertisements of all sorts of herbal [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] > younger in no time. Raw foods take away your temptation for all the > heart killing foods. Its all in the temptation. Very sound dietary advice .Vince > On 4/23/07 9:03 AM, in article > 1177344233.878839.37...@p77g2000hsh.googlegroups.com, "fyfp...@gmail.com" [quoted text clipped - 16 lines] > kind of "results" I guess the guy selling the herbs knows better than the MD > who spent 10 years learning how to treat this condition - or does it. There is a herb tea, however, if taken throughout the day, lowers blood pressure. I do know someone who drinks that tea everyday has managed to cut down on the amount of medication he takes daily. But this is not a cure. The tea is a form of liquid anti-hypertension medicine. I have tried pills that made from herb extracts. I needed to take the pills three times a day in order to get the same effect as one tablet of chemical pill. The benefit from taking herb pill is the lack of side-effect such as sexual impotence. If the synthetic technology can be developed to make a herb pill run for 24 hours, a lot of people would go for it. > On 4/23/07 9:03 AM, in article > 1177344233.878839.37...@p77g2000hsh.googlegroups.com, "fyfp...@gmail.com" [quoted text clipped - 16 lines] > kind of "results" I guess the guy selling the herbs knows better than the MD > who spent 10 years learning how to treat this condition - or does it. Murray if a Doctor has his patient on atenolol only and thats the way he is treating the essential hypertention he is not doing his patient any favor .While this a common practice. It is ineffective at preventing mortality in fact it actualy increases the risk of mortality. It has been linked with an increase in reates of diabetes and you would be hard pressed to find a leader in the field of hypertention who supports it as a 1st line drug to treat BP.. It still is one of the most widely prescribed drugs in the US. The gentleman might get more benefit from other methods. vince > I have high blood pressure and have been taking pills daily for > years. From time to time I see advertisements of all sorts of herbal > methods that can 'cure' high blood pressure. I think those who are > not suffering from hereditary causes may have a chance of getting > their high blood pressure cured but hereditary caused hbp in my view > cannot be cured. I have had high blood pressure that can't be attributed to any medical reasons (like obesity or clogged arteries) for at least seven years. It has been kept under control by medications most of the time, but it still flares up at times. Several doctors including cardiologists and internal medicine specialists have told me that in about 99% of cases once you start taking meds for it you're on them for life. If there were magical herbs that could cure hypertension, don't you think we'd all know about them? For years, they said garlic would cure it. I put garlic in almost everything, ate it raw, and even took it in capsules. It didn't lower my blood pressure at all. Physicians say to take magnesium, potassium, and calcium which I've always done, and they don't seem to help either. The only things you can be assured will help to lower or keep your blood pressure down are losing weight if you need to, exercise, lowering your salt intake, and cutting back on smoking, drinking, and caffeine. I've read about quite a few people who got off the meds after losing weight and exercising, but their problem was caused by their obesity to begin with. There's a newer study about the effect of chiropractic adjustment on blood pressure, and before I ever heard of it, I noticed a drastic lowering of my blood pressure after just one visit to a chiropractor. Check out the article on the Web MD site: http://www.webmd.com/hypertension-high-blood-pressure/news/20070316/chiropractic -cuts-blood-pressure > "fyfp...@gmail.com" wrote: > [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > has been kept under control by medications most of the time, but it > still flares up at times. Before I move onto reading your link, I would like to share with you my experiences in controlling HBP. I don't know how old you are but my doctor told me that once a person goes near 50, it is harder for the BP to be controlled with just a single med. You need to combine at least two kinds of med together to have your BP controlled. I am not sure if this is your problem, as you indicated your BP still flares up at times. In additiion, each pill should not be of a short- lived duration, as a short-lived pill produces 'rabile' or unstable BP. I wish someone could have told me that about 2 years ago as at that time my BP was out of control. I went to visit different doctors and these doctors are fancy doctors in fancy places such as the Adventist Hospital of HK. They were a crapload of doctors! None knew what the f.ck it was going on with my controllable BP. Finally I met a 'peasant' doctor in China who by experience managed to have my BP brought under control. Several doctors including cardiologists and > internal medicine specialists have told me that in about 99% of cases > once you start taking meds for it you're on them for life. [quoted text clipped - 19 lines] > > http://www.webmd.com/hypertension-high-blood-pressure/news/20070316/c... > Before I move onto reading your link, I would like to share with you > my experiences in controlling HBP. I don't know how old you are but [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > not sure if this is your problem, as you indicated your BP still > flares up at times. I've been on a calcium channel blocker, a beta blocker, and a diuretic since shortly after my problem started. The meds I was taking worked well for several years until I had an allergic reaction to one of them last August (which was also when my tinnitus started). Since then, they've had a hard time finding the right combination and dosage of meds to keep my blood pressure at acceptable levels. That's why I still have problems at times. > "fyfp...@gmail.com" wrote: > > Before I move onto reading your link, I would like to share with you [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > I've been on a calcium channel blocker, a beta blocker, and a diuretic > since shortly after my problem started. (1)I found diuretic(hydrochloridethiazer) to execerbate my tinnitus. You may want to check into that. The day I stopped diuretic was the day of my liberation from the T torturing chamber. (2)I am on a calcium channel blocker(Plendil 5 mg) and a IRBESARTAN(0.15g) and my BP has been well under control. Seems your fancy/high tech doctor in the US is not any more experienced than my 'peasant' doctor in China. The meds I was taking worked > well for several years until I had an allergic reaction to one of them > last August (which was also when my tinnitus started). Since then, > they've had a hard time finding the right combination and dosage of meds > to keep my blood pressure at acceptable levels. That's why I still have > problems at times. > Seems your fancy/high tech doctor in the US is not any more > experienced than my 'peasant' doctor in China. I don't think experience has much to do with it. When it comes to prescribing meds for high blood pressure (and a lot of other conditions), no two people respond in exactly the same way to different meds. The doctors have you try this combination and try that combination until something works. > I don't think experience has much to do with it. When it comes to > prescribing meds for high blood pressure (and a lot of other > conditions), no two people respond in exactly the same way to different > meds. The doctors have you try this combination and try that combination > until something works. Yeah, everything but the non toxic diet and life style interventions most likely to help first. Reflexive rx writing is not good clinical medicine, but it's all most folks get, without ever diagnosing and correcting the underlying process. Susan > > The doctors have you try this combination and try that combination > > until something works. > > Yeah, everything but the non toxic diet and life style interventions > most likely to help first. Well, they did keep telling me to cut down on salt, but they never asked how much salt I used. I felt like yelling at them, "I never said I put salt on my food!" In fact, I bought a box of salt at least 10 years ago, and it's still over half full. I only use it to salt the water when I boil eggs and pasta. >> > The doctors have you try this combination and try that combination >> > until something works. [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] >ago, and it's still over half full. I only use it to salt the water >when I boil eggs and pasta. I heard the same mantra over and over when I had high BP. But since I never add salt to my food and don't even like the taste of food that has been over-salted, I got tired of trying to get it across to them. And, like you I add salt to the water when I cook pasta. But why salt the water to boil eggs? > And, like you I add salt to the water when I cook pasta. But why salt > the water to boil eggs? Did you ever see an egg crack while boiling and spread out all over the pan? A little salt in the water keeps them from doing it. Something to do with the density of salt water being higher than unsalted I suspect. >> And, like you I add salt to the water when I cook pasta. But why salt >> the water to boil eggs? > >Did you ever see an egg crack while boiling and spread out all over the >pan? A little salt in the water keeps them from doing it. Something to >do with the density of salt water being higher than unsalted I suspect. The way I boil eggs without them cracking is to prick a hole at the top of the egg with a pin before I put it in the water. Works every time, even when I'm putting an egg into boiling water for a 4 minute egg. All I do then is take the pan off the heat to let the water settle, then put the egg in slowly, put the pan back on the heat and let it boil away. But I will try adding salt to the water instead of my usual method and see how it goes. BTW - I did think of something I add salt to besides pasta water. I put a pinch of Celtic Sea Salt into the water when I boil oats for breakfast. > The way I boil eggs without them cracking is to prick a hole at the > top of the egg with a pin before I put it in the water. Works every [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > let it boil away. But I will try adding salt to the water instead of > my usual method and see how it goes. We only make hard boiled eggs. Many cookbooks say to start them in cold water and bring it to a boil (which may be why they sometimes crack). Then, you're supposed to cover the pan and remove it from the heat for 15 minutes. Supposedly, leaving the water boiling discolors the yolks. I usually just boil them for 15 minutes uncovered, but I'm not that picky about them. I've also seen people place a towel in the bottom of the pan to protect them. Another thought about cutting salt from your diet: If you don't take a multivitamin or use iodized salt, will you get enough iodine in your diet? >> The way I boil eggs without them cracking is to prick a hole at the >> top of the egg with a pin before I put it in the water. Works every [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] >picky about them. I've also seen people place a towel in the bottom of >the pan to protect them. That's how I make hard boiled eggs. Put the eggs into cold water, bring to a boil and leave at a rolling boil for 15 minutes. Only I put the hole in the top first and take them out after they've boiled and put them into a bowl with ice water, because it makes them easier to peel. >Another thought about cutting salt from your diet: If you don't take a >multivitamin or use iodized salt, will you get enough iodine in your >diet? Probably not. That's one of the reasons I take a good vitamin/mineral supplement. > >> The way I boil eggs without them cracking is to prick a hole at the > >> top of the egg with a pin before I put it in the water. Works every [quoted text clipped - 26 lines] > > - Show quoted text - There are 3 different types of essential hypertention but they really boil down to 2. It really is not to complex. People either have vasoconstriction where your blood vessel constrict.Ther are 3 familys of drugs that effect this type of blood pressure Beta blockers; ace inhibitors and arbs. Renin triggers this type of hypertension Beta blocker block renin, Ace inhibitors, Block renin from becomeing angiotention 2 which causes vasoconstiction. Arbs which prevent the vasoconstiction directly. People who have this type on hypertention will probably not benefit from salt restiction because salt restriction works by a different method . The 2 type of hypertention is volume dependant here the primary drugs are diurectics and calcium channel blockers . Salt restiction works with these people. Many foods and other natural products can help High blood pressure green tea and yogart for example have been show to act on the vasoconstrictsion side of the equation. There are several foods that may act as a natural diuretic celery for example. Excersize is always a good heart healthy thing to do but it effect on blood pressure is not established. Weight reduction is good and losing weight is a good way to help lower .Diet is another matter the dash diet primaryly acts like a diurectic and can help some. But many people with high blood pressure also have metabolic syndrome and for them the dash diet is probably not good. They need less grains and more fats. a good article is here it explains the role of insulin in hypertention. It called "insulin not sodium bad actor in hypertension" http://www.medpagetoday.com/Endocrinology/AACE/tb/3196 Vince > Well, they did keep telling me to cut down on salt, but they never asked > how much salt I used. I felt like yelling at them, "I never said I put > salt on my food!" In fact, I bought a box of salt at least 10 years > ago, and it's still over half full. I only use it to salt the water > when I boil eggs and pasta. I don't ever salt my food, but my diet is very salty due to cheeses, olives, pickles, etc. The only reason I use up salt is that I mix my irrigation solution using it. Susan Unfortunately salt free is tricky and during hot summer can be dangerous. You avoid salt and drink Evian water? That has salt . Most foods esp prepared have salt. There are many handouts on this and you can find many salt free food lists on the internet. One approach is to drink distilled water. This takes salt out of the system so you don't need to buy special low salt foods. There are many causes of hypertension and some don't require low salt intake. As for Meniere's and Cochlear Hydrops, the association of low salt and improvement is usual . On 4/29/07 7:07 AM, in article 59jn4lF2in1qvU2@mid.individual.net, "Susan" <nevermind@nomail.com> wrote: > x-no-archive: yes > [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > > Susan > One approach is to drink distilled water. This takes salt out of the system > so you don't need to buy special low salt foods. Is the same thing true of the water purified by reverse osmosis? > Unfortunately salt free is tricky and during hot summer can be dangerous. > You avoid salt and drink Evian water? That has salt . Most foods esp > prepared have salt. There are many handouts on this and you can find many > salt free food lists on the internet. > One approach is to drink distilled water. Is beer made of distilled water? Tks This takes salt out of the system > so you don't need to buy special low salt foods. > There are many causes of hypertension and some don't require low salt [quoted text clipped - 21 lines] > > - 显示引用的文字 - > "fyfp...@gmail.com" wrote: > > Seems your fancy/high tech doctor in the US is not any more > > experienced than my 'peasant' doctor in China. > > I don't think experience has much to do with it. Well, i think the clinical experience of a doctor has a lot to do with it. Years ago when my bp went hay wild while i was on a single pill, my doctor told me that according to his "experience" once a person gets old, the single medicine approach no longer works effectively. He sorted out my problem with the addition of another med, while at that time the other younger doctors suggested me to raise the dosage of the same pill. In addition, another doctor in the med.sci. cardiology told me that the short term beta blocker in my med regime might have been responsible for my "rabile" bp(going up and down...).....these are experiences... When it comes to > prescribing meds for high blood pressure (and a lot of other > conditions), no two people respond in exactly the same way to different > meds. The doctors have you try this combination and try that combination > until something works. erbs that could cure hypertension, don't you > think we'd all know about them? No. Not without a massive pharma marketing campaign to doctors with rewards for writing rx's for them. For years, they said garlic would cure > it. I put garlic in almost everything, ate it raw, and even took it in > capsules. It didn't lower my blood pressure at all. Physicians say to > take magnesium, potassium, and calcium which I've always done, and they > don't seem to help either. They help lower my bp a LOT. As does low carb dieting (lowers fluid retention and reverses metabolic syndrome)in many people. For some, avoiding arachidonic rich foods helps, too. > The only things you can be assured will help to lower or keep your blood > pressure down are losing weight if you need to, exercise, lowering your > salt intake, and cutting back on smoking, drinking, and caffeine. I've > read about quite a few people who got off the meds after losing weight > and exercising, but their problem was caused by their obesity to begin > with. Hypercortisolemia, more common than was onced believed, also causes ht; high insulin levels in response to high glycemic load dose. Reducing salt never lowered my bp at all, not one bit. Eating lots of it doesn't raise my husbands. In fact, some research studies have found higher mortality with salt restriction. Susan > They help lower my bp a LOT. As does low carb dieting (lowers fluid > retention and reverses metabolic syndrome)in many people. For some, > avoiding arachidonic rich foods helps, too. What besides peanut oil is arachidonic rich? > Hypercortisolemia, more common than was onced believed, also causes ht; > high insulin levels in response to high glycemic load dose. Reducing > salt never lowered my bp at all, not one bit. Eating lots of it doesn't > raise my husbands. In fact, some research studies have found higher > mortality with salt restriction. I've never noticed a difference because of eating more or less salt either, but I never ate much salt before I had a problem and still don't. Is it true that sea salt is lower in sodium and therefore better for you than regular table salt is? > What besides peanut oil is arachidonic rich? Feedlot beef, the more marbled, the more AA, egg yolks, off the top of my head. > I've never noticed a difference because of eating more or less salt > either, but I never ate much salt before I had a problem and still > don't. Is it true that sea salt is lower in sodium and therefore better > for you than regular table salt is? I dunno, but if there's no difference for you, you're probably not salt sensitive. A lot of researchers think that sodium isn't causative, just associated because it's in a lot of the prepared crap people eat instead of potassium and magnesium rich protein foods and vegetables. Most folks find that bp drops like a rock on low carb, I need supplemental potassium and cal/mag, too, due to adrenal dysfunction at the moment. Susan Susan <nevermind@nomail.com> wrote in part: >x-no-archive: yes > [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] >No. Not without a massive pharma marketing campaign to doctors with >rewards for writing rx's for them. Well, there is the NIH with its humongous budget. You'd think the gov't might want to find simple remedies for chronic illnesses. Oh ... what am I thinking?! Never mind.  SignatureJim Chinnis / Warrenton, Virginia, USA Want to discuss Meniere's? See http://groups.yahoo.com/group/MenieresDG > x-no-archive: yes > [quoted text clipped - 13 lines] > > They help lower my bp a LOT. Actually there are many herbs that can lower BP if taken daily. But to 'cure' bp is something else. As does low carb dieting (lowers fluid > retention and reverses metabolic syndrome)in many people. For some, > avoiding arachidonic rich foods helps, too. [quoted text clipped - 13 lines] > > Susan On 4/26/07 8:34 PM, in article 46316112.AB5A408A@no.spam, "don" > The only things you can be assured will help to lower or keep your blood > pressure down are losing weight if you need to, exercise, lowering your > salt intake, and cutting back on smoking, drinking, and caffeine. I've > read about quite a few people who got off the meds after losing weight > and exercising, but their problem was caused by their obesity to begin > with. Biofeedback is very effective for lowering BP. > On 4/26/07 8:34 PM, in article 46316112.AB5A4...@no.spam, "don" > [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > > Biofeedback is very effective for lowering BP. Does it last? > > Biofeedback is very effective for lowering BP. > > Does it last? If I'm not mistaken, I think it helps if your blood pressure problems are caused at least in part by stress. It helps you manage your stress so that it doesn't elevate your blood pressure. > If I'm not mistaken, I think it helps if your blood pressure problems > are caused at least in part by stress. It helps you manage your stress > so that it doesn't elevate your blood pressure. My understanding is that you can use it to learn to lower your bp whether you're having as stress response or not. Probably a similar kind of process to the way transendental meditators can control and lower theirs. Susan On 4/28/07 3:58 PM, in article 59i1t9F2kq2j9U1@mid.individual.net, "Susan" <nevermind@nomail.com> wrote: > My understanding is that you can use it to learn to lower your bp > whether you're having as stress response or not. Probably a similar > kind of process to the way transendental meditators can control and > lower theirs. Biofeedback differs from TM in that you are given back objective information that tells you when you are doing it right. For example if you use the mirror as a Biofeedback device, you can see the face, jaw, etc relax when you do it right. I and many others used to disbelieve that high blood pressure can be cured but an encounter with a guy here in China yesterday changed my mind just a little bit. This guy last year went through 6 days treatment of herb medicine and afterwards went without HBP pills for almost 8 months. He was diagnosed of having hereditary HBP and had been on pills prior to the treatment. Some years ago when I first took hbp pills, I experienced sexual impotence. I was advised to switch into herb pills and switch I did. The side-effect was gone but I had to take the herb pills 4 times a day in order to have my BP under control. It was very troublesome. Then I switched back into chemical pills of a different kind that had less side effect on me. Perhaps someday in the future, the develpment of technology will become so advanced that a big chunk of herb medicine can be synthesized into a 24 hours pill with the effect of curing high blood pressure if applied over longer term. There is a great deal to be offered from herbs medicine and there is even more from a combination of synthetic and herb medicines. Only intellectual dwarfs would excluse either one. FP On 4月24日, 上午12时03分, "fyfp...@gmail.com" <fyfp...@gmail.com> wrote: > I have high blood pressure and have been taking pills daily for > years. From time to time I see advertisements of all sorts of herbal [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > > Tks > I and many others used to disbelieve that high blood pressure can be > cured but an encounter with a guy here in China yesterday changed my [quoted text clipped - 20 lines] > even more from a combination of synthetic and herb medicines. Only > intellectual dwarfs would excluse either one. People - stop top posting. I trim the headers! This group is looking mighty lame and messy because of it. Re: high blood pressure....have you tried a fat free diet for a few days to see if that affects it? People say they've "tried everything" then tell me they had cheese and french fries yesterday. Zero animal products: seafood, meat, dairy. Zero vegetables oils: anything you pour out of container that is labeled "oil". And the worst: cooking foods (frying, baking, broiling) with oil. For a pure oil that is natural, use ripe avocados (one a day) and fresh "young" coconuts (not the hairy brown ones with the solidified, petrified meat inside. They should be white. To buy, the bottom should not be discolored and it should be firm. As they age, they discolour and the bottom gets mushy. And raw, unsalted (duh!) nuts and seeds, preferably organic and in the shell. Do some exercise so your heart rate gets over 150 beats per minute for 15 or more minutes. THEN see if your stubborn blood pressure doesn't comes down. Few people are willing to make the sacrifice. They would rather keel over and die than replace garbage food with fresh food. Its up to you. Just like everything. > > I and many others used to disbelieve that high blood pressure can be > > cured but an encounter with a guy here in China yesterday changed my [quoted text clipped - 46 lines] > and die than replace garbage food with fresh food. Its up to you. > Just like everything. - 隐藏被引用文字 - You do have good ideas which I at least on my own behalf appreciate but not that many people can afford that kind of organic life you suggest..Like salt, oil at the rate it is consumed these days is no good for us at all but the alternatives are very troublesome or more so than taking a pill a day. Murray has the idea when it comes to avoiding salt. He suggested people to drink a lot of distilled water in order to dilute the salt content in our body. Do you have a way by which we could dilute the oil content in our body? If you could suggest a workable way, you then would be as good as Murray and at least as contributive to this group as he does. > - 显示引用的文字 - >>> I and many others used to disbelieve that high blood pressure can be >>> cured but an encounter with a guy here in China yesterday changed my [quoted text clipped - 50 lines] > but not that many people can afford that kind of organic life you > suggest. That's ironic. They can afford to eat junk food That's far more expensive. They can afford coffee, alcohol, snacks, pop, etc. Its called priorities. And initial discipline. One angle is not to think of what you're giving up. Think of what you're upgrading. Also, most importantly, you can sprint after eating. Sprint - not waddle or drag your sorry a.s up a few flights of stairs. Sprint means light on your feet. Light on your feet indicates your muscles are more than adequate for your body weight. > Like salt, oil at the rate it is consumed these days is no > good for us at all but the alternatives are very troublesome or more > so than taking a pill a day. Murray has the idea when it comes to > avoiding salt. He suggested people to drink a lot of distilled water > in order to dilute the salt content in our body. Do you have a way by > which we could dilute the oil content in our body? Duh......don't consume it in the first place? When a child asks you "How do I stop plugging the toilet?" don't you answer with "Stop plugging it in the first place"? You don't have to rehydrate your body if you first didn't dehydrate it in the first place. Salt is not in any food on this earth. Salt (NaCl, sodium chloride) makes you thirsty. That is the body purging a poison via water. For most people it takes a few days to rid the body of excess salt. Don't confuse the mineral Sodium we all need from sodium chloride, the poison most of us ingest. Salt is the oldest preservative in the world. Take away salt from your grocer's foods and they would have to vastly augment their refridgeration space. And that would mean higher prices. Its just much cheaper to put some salt in to vastly extend shelf life. If food that is not dry, doesn't bad fast in room temperature might quick, its probably no good. > If you could suggest a workable way, you then would be as good as > Murray and at least as contributive to this group as he does. You can't help someone determined to kill themselves with their own knife and fork. You offer a solution, hope they consider it, hope they then try it (that's the hard one), and hope they persist (another hard one). IF they do those things, they will be converted. For real food strength, consider this: few health food advocates don't succomb to their own food weaknesses if they don't go 100% raw. I'm not sure why this is, but many people, including myself have not eaten a gram of processed foods from the day they went raw. For me its several years. Sprouting is crucial as its rather difficult eating raw grains, legumes, beans and peas. After battling daily food temptations (and losing regularly) I've finally found a way without a struggle. I would encourage others to try it. Unless dying way before your time is just fine with you. Because that's what it comes down to. You dig your grave with your knife and fork. Up to you. > People - stop top posting. I trim the headers! This group is looking > mighty lame and messy because of it. Shut the hell up! If you don't like it, go away! > > People - stop top posting. I trim the headers! This group is looking > > mighty lame and messy because of it. > > Shut the hell up! If you don't like it, go away! Well, please be human, he does not have an evil intention. On the other hand, he does have some good ideas. It is the good ideas, rather than the format of posting, that interests me...and i hope others as well.
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