Home | Contact Us | FAQ | Search & Site Map | Link to Us
Sign In | Join | Other 45 Sites in Network
Home
Discussion Groups
General
GeneralCardiologyVisionDentistryPharmacyLaboratoryNutritionAlternative
Diseases and Disorders
AIDSAlzheimer'sArthritisAsthmaCancerBreast CancerDiabetesEpilepsyGlaucomaHepatitisHerpesLupusProstate BPHProstate CancerProstatitisSinusitisTinnitus

Medical Forum / Diseases and Disorders / Tinnitus / April 2007

Tip: Looking for answers? Try searching our database.

Double blind acupuncture/tinnitus study in Portugal

Thread view: 
Enable EMail Alerts  Start New Thread
Thread rating: 
fyfpoon@gmail.com - 02 Apr 2007 14:41 GMT
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?db=pubmed&cmd=Retrieve&dopt=Abstra
ctPlus&list_uids=16951850&query_hl=2&itool=pubmed_docsum


The treatment of tinnitus, which is defined as conscientious
perception of a sound originated in the ears or nervous system,
represents until the current days a great challenge. The use of
Acupuncture (ACP) is based on the stimulation with needles of specific
points on the human anatomy. A prospective, randomized and double-
blinded study was carried through in 76 patients taken care of in the
Clinic of Tinnitus of the Department of Otorhinolaringology and Head
and Neck Surgery of the UNIFESP-EPM in the period understood between
April and June of 2005. All the patients had humming complaint and had
been submitted to clinical anamnese, physical examination and
subsidiary exams in order to investigate its etiology. The patients
then were directed to a first researcher that determined an initial
numeric value of the humming through Visual Analoge Scale(VAS),
varying from 0 to 10 points. After this, had been directed for another
room in which an acupuncturist doctor, who did not have access to the
initial evaluation, separated the patients in Group Control and Group
Study according to the attendance order, in alternating way. The ACP
point used in patients of the Group Study places 6,5 cm above of the
apex of the auditory pavilion in the parietal region. The point used
in the Group Control places 3 cm above of the previous point, in the
same vertical line. Then they had been sent back to the initial room
for a new evaluation by the first researcher, where they had been
guided to redefine the subjective score of the humming. Among the 76
studied patients, 29 were male (38,2%) and 47 female (61,8%), with
average age 56,9 + 12,0 years. The Groups Study and Control had
counted on 38 patients each. Through the Anova test it was evidenced
that it had significant difference (p<0,001) between the moments pre
and post needling and that in the group Study this improvement is more
evident (p=0,0127). The t-independent test showed that it had a
significant difference (p=0,017) between the two moments in the groups
Study and Control. We conclude that there was significant reduction of
the counting of the moments pre and post needling in both the groups,
and in the group study the reduction is greater that in the group
control.

====================================================================
If this study had been done in China, simple folks would have called
it Chairman Mao propaganda.  Since this was done in Portugal, many
simple folks just have to remain silent.
Murray Grossan - 03 Apr 2007 01:52 GMT
On 4/2/07 6:41 AM, in article
1175521290.772965.110950@p77g2000hsh.googlegroups.com, "fyfpoon@gmail.com"

> http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?db=pubmed&cmd=Retrieve&dopt=Abst
> ractPlus&list_uids=16951850&query_hl=2&itool=pubmed_docsum
[quoted text clipped - 38 lines]
> it Chairman Mao propaganda.  Since this was done in Portugal, many
> simple folks just have to remain silent.

Remember the study in the JAMA ? They had medical students who knew nothing
about acupuncture treat patients and compared the results to the acupuncture
experts treatment and the ignorant medical students got better results for
treating pain.
fyfpoon@gmail.com - 03 Apr 2007 06:19 GMT
> On 4/2/07 6:41 AM, in article
> 1175521290.772965.110...@p77g2000hsh.googlegroups.com, "fyfp...@gmail.com"
[quoted text clipped - 47 lines]
> experts treatment and the ignorant medical students got better results for
> treating pain.- 隐藏被引用文字 -

So you have it!  A 'double blind' study is no holy grail indicator and
as such should not be used as an authority to decide whether or not a
method of treatment is going to be effective for anyone who wants to
try.  This goes true for ginkgo, hyperbaric oxygen chamber,
acupuncture, infusion or whatever, as in the final analysis people
still need to go back to CLINICAL EXPERIENCES.  I know that you Murray
are not the one who crazily subscribes to this kind of 'double blind'
gadgets but there are some high-tech medical scientists who have gone
astray on this.  It is your moral duty as a medical professional to
bring them back to light!

> - 显示引用的文字 -
jga.socal - 03 Apr 2007 17:15 GMT
For anyone who cares, here is one (of many) opposing points of view
concerning acupuncture.
http://www.ncahf.org/pp/acu.html

National Council Against Health Fraud (ncahf.org):

1. Acupuncture is an unproven modality of treatment;
2. Its theory and practice are based on primitive and fanciful
concepts of health and disease that bear no relationship to present
scientific knowledge;
3. Research during the past twenty years has failed to demonstrate
that acupuncture is effective against any disease;
4. Perceived effects of acupuncture are probably due to a combination
of expectation, suggestion, counter- irritation, operant conditioning,
and other psychological mechanisms;
5. The use of acupuncture should be restricted to appropriate research
settings;
6. Insurance companies should not be required by law to cover
acupuncture treatment; and
7. Licensure of lay acupuncturists should be phased out.

But, read the article.
Susan - 03 Apr 2007 17:21 GMT
> For anyone who cares, here is one (of many) opposing points of view
> concerning acupuncture.
[quoted text clipped - 18 lines]
>
> But, read the article.

Nah, the NCAHF is a bunch of quacks with knee jerk reactions to anything
they have no personal knowledge of or belief in.  Hardly a credible
authority.

Susan
Janice - 04 Apr 2007 00:16 GMT
Some people believe that tinnitus should be drained with bloodletting
also.

Big deal. Means that accupuncture is hurting their business they
didn't do.

> For anyone who cares, here is one (of many) opposing points of view
> concerning acupuncture.
[quoted text clipped - 21 lines]
>
> But, read the article.
fyfpoon@gmail.com - 04 Apr 2007 04:11 GMT
> For anyone who cares, here is one (of many) opposing points of view
> concerning acupuncture.http://www.ncahf.org/pp/acu.html
[quoted text clipped - 17 lines]
>
> But, read the article.

They can fool all the people some of the time or some of the people
all the time, but they cannot fool all the people all the time.

==================================
bigvince - 05 Apr 2007 17:46 GMT
On Apr 3, 11:11 pm, "fyfp...@gmail.com" <fyfp...@gmail.com> wrote:

> > For anyone who cares, here is one (of many) opposing points of view
> > concerning acupuncture.http://www.ncahf.org/pp/acu.html
[quoted text clipped - 24 lines]
>
> - Show quoted text -

Traditional medicine has exactly 0 effective treatments for tinitus.
Drug based cures provide very little relief of symtoms. Acupunture has
become a valid treatment option for a number of conditions Its
effectiveness has been demonstated in numerous trails and it is safe.
A large number of people have this condition as a result of legal
drugs prescibed by physicians. Most of what conventional medicine does
has not be tested. Any time a drug is used off label it is being used
for a condition which it has not been proven to be effective a lot off
drugs are used off label.  A would like to see the finaces behind the
National Council Against Health Fraud. As they say follow the money
Susan - 05 Apr 2007 21:21 GMT
>  Traditional medicine has exactly 0 effective treatments for tinitus.

That's not completely true.  My tinnitus was associated with chronic
infectious disease involving the CNS and antibiotics ultimately improved
it a great deal.

Some folks find that hormonal abnormalities trigger T, and correcting
them improve it.

If damage is caught and treated very early, steroids may help.

Some tinnitus can be treated by conventional means, if you can find a
smart and curious enough doctor.

That's the real problem.

Susan
Murray Grossan - 06 Apr 2007 01:51 GMT
On 4/5/07 1:21 PM, in article 57l41hF2decl7U1@mid.individual.net, "Susan"
<nevermind@nomail.com> wrote:

> x-no-archive: yes
>
[quoted text clipped - 15 lines]
>
> Susan
Good article on T in Advance for Audiologists by Barry Keane this month.
fyfpoon@gmail.com - 08 Apr 2007 15:42 GMT
> On Apr 3, 11:11 pm, "fyfp...@gmail.com" <fyfp...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
[quoted text clipped - 28 lines]
>
>  Traditional medicine has exactly 0 effective treatments for tinitus.

Not true.  In the initial stage of my T development, piles of herbs
boiled to produce some solution did stop the ringing of my T but it
was crumsy and raised my blood pressure and I stopped it.

====================

> Drug based cures provide very little relief of symtoms. Acupunture has
> become a valid treatment option for a number of conditions Its
[quoted text clipped - 7 lines]
>
> - 显示引用的文字 -
 
Sign In
Join
My Latest Posts
My Monitored Threads
My Blog
My Photo Gallery
My Profile
My Homepage

Start New Thread
Enable EMail Alerts
Rate this Thread



©2008 Advenet LLC   Privacy Policy - Terms of Use
This website includes both content owned or controlled by Advenet as well as content owned or controlled by third parties.