Medical Forum / Diseases and Disorders / Tinnitus / March 2007
Herpes Simplex Encephalitis and Tinnitus
|
|
Thread rating:  |
Rich - 17 Feb 2007 18:46 GMT I recently had a blood serum antibody test for Herpes simplex and scored 38.40 on the IgG antibody. This is ranked High abnormal. A negative score would fall between .00 and .89 on the test. I was tested further to show I have Herpes Simplex Type I antibody not type II. My other major symptoms point to infection in the central nervous system and brain, called Herpes SImpex Ecephalitis HSE). I have high cranial pressure that has never been measured or taken seriously when I have tried to go to ER departments for help. HSE is typically 'confirmed' with a spinal tap and spinall fluid test: Polymerase chain reaction PCR analysis of CSF for the detection of HSV DNA has virtually replaced brain biopsy as the criterion standard for diagnosis. PCR is highly sensitive (94-98%) and specific (98-100%). I have not had this test performed even though I have asked for it. I strongly believe that this virus infection is very very related to my tinnitus. If you are fortunate to be blood serum tested or spinal fluid tested please post for others to know. HSV can be fatal if not treated and is sometimes fatal even if treated. Rich
Ghamph - 20 Feb 2007 20:11 GMT > I recently had a blood serum antibody test for Herpes simplex and > scored 38.40 on the IgG antibody. This is ranked High abnormal. A [quoted text clipped - 17 lines] > treated. > Rich I am convinced that my HSV-1 was the main cause of my tinnitus and my initial hyperacusis. I first got HSV-1 at six months of age. I haven't gotten a visible out break on my lip since my "T" started , 6 years ago. I also think that my sinusitis might have a connection also. From age 30 to 40 my HSV-1 outbreaks slowly migrated from my upper lip up into my nose.
Rich - 24 Feb 2007 21:39 GMT I also have sinus disease on my mri report. I also had extremely bad neck pain and twisting which was called torticollis. here is a link to herpes blood testing information: http://www.ashastd.org/herpes/herpes_bloodtest.cfm
Here is a link that includes information about a herpes 'neck pain' torticollis connection:: http://www.patentstorm.us/patents/5677308-fulltext.html
There may be many useful links that cover a herpes tinnitus connection too. R.
Rich - 26 Feb 2007 15:07 GMT Web searches for herpes encephalitis tinnitus show information stating that the herpes virus can cause ear infections and tinnitus. Here is just one:
http://www.logan.edu/faculty/powers/tinnitus.html
Ghamph - 27 Feb 2007 00:23 GMT > Web searches for herpes encephalitis tinnitus show information stating > that the herpes virus can cause ear infections and tinnitus. Here is > just one: > > http://www.logan.edu/faculty/powers/tinnitus.html Hyperacusis and tinnitus fit my case , but none of the other symptoms do. My case was totally symmetrical L+R equally , so highly unlikely to be that particular virus. Possible lyme disease , might be the more likely culprit , in my opinion. Although I have no arthritic symptoms whatsoever. I'm going to visit an immunologist eventually , to get tested. Jamffer
Susan - 27 Feb 2007 15:49 GMT >>Web searches for herpes encephalitis tinnitus show information stating >>that the herpes virus can cause ear infections and tinnitus. Here is [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > I'm going to visit an immunologist eventually , to get tested. > Jamffer Only about 10-15% of Lyme patients get arthritic symptoms. Neurological symptoms are far more common, and it's unusual for a disseminated infection not to cause tinnitus at some point, anecdotally speaking.
Susan
Ghamph - 27 Feb 2007 20:42 GMT > x-no-archive: yes > [quoted text clipped - 16 lines] > > Susan So , what are the long term telltale symptoms? Jamffer
Susan - 27 Feb 2007 22:34 GMT > So , what are the long term telltale symptoms? > Jamffer They're highly variable and are so global that it would be impossible to list them all.
Have you had a tick bite, or history of exposure in an endemic area at any time in the past (it can lay dormant for many years after infection)?
Is tinnitus the only symptom you have?
Susan
Ghamph - 27 Feb 2007 23:29 GMT > x-no-archive: yes > [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > > Susan Tic or flea bite in Florida 1977 which left a bean size spot , that comes and goes , in the same spot on my ankle. Tried benzalkonium chloride on it once last year and it caused a 1 inch target-like spot to break out 1 inch away from the original spot. There's another similar tic disease from "the lone star tic" another name for it is "Masters disease". It shows up as a smaller target-like spot that goes away. Similar treatment as Lyme Disease. Jamffer
Susan - 27 Feb 2007 23:33 GMT > Tic or flea bite in Florida 1977 which left a bean size spot , that comes > and goes , in the same spot on my ankle. Tried benzalkonium chloride on it [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > goes away. Similar treatment as Lyme Disease. > Jamffer That's certainly suspicious for tick borne disease, even though the bullseye rash was the least common type of rash of all the culture positives during the Lyme vaccine trials by GSK.
Do you have symptoms other than tinnitus?
Susan
Ghamph - 28 Feb 2007 00:10 GMT > x-no-archive: yes > [quoted text clipped - 14 lines] > > Susan No , but the one inch spot from last year healed except for the definite target ring remnant scar. Still have original bean size spot , that stays red looking half of the time. Jamffer
Susan - 28 Feb 2007 00:23 GMT > No , but the one inch spot from last year healed except for the definite > target ring remnant scar. Still have original bean size spot , that stays > red looking half of the time. > Jamffer Have you and your doc considered an empiric trial of 400 mg doxycycline per day? If the rash is TBD related, it should respond to that very quickly.
I came to this newsgroup after starting such a regimen; the endotoxin release by borrelia temporarily ratcheted my tinnitus up to the sound of a jet engine in my head. As I stayed on the doxy, the noise got quieter and quieter, and my overall energy and stamina improved.
Susan
Ghamph - 28 Feb 2007 00:28 GMT > x-no-archive: yes > [quoted text clipped - 13 lines] > > Susan I was thinking of , biopsy of the active spot , since it is active more than not. Jamffer
Susan - 28 Feb 2007 02:49 GMT > I was thinking of , biopsy of the active spot , since it is active more than > not. > Jamffer Why?
Susan
Ghamph - 28 Feb 2007 04:17 GMT > x-no-archive: yes > [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > > Susan Look at a smear on a slide under my scope to rule out visible bacteria. If none seen , then probably a virus (which are too small to see). I think I can rule out fungus or it would have spread in thirty years , my guess. Jamffer
Susan - 28 Feb 2007 14:49 GMT > Look at a smear on a slide under my scope to rule out visible bacteria. If > none seen , then probably a virus (which are too small to see). I think I > can rule out fungus or it would have spread in thirty years , my guess. > Jamffer If it were that easy, it wouldn't be such a difficultdx. There are a few reference labs in the U.S. capable of culturing borrelia from a punch biopsy of the leading edge of the rash, but this requires specialized experience, a particular medium and skill.
Susan
Sonoran Dude - 03 Mar 2007 15:36 GMT > x-no-archive: yes > [quoted text clipped - 14 lines] > > Susan How many days at a time do you take it? Just curious
Susan - 03 Mar 2007 15:52 GMT > How many days at a time do you take it? Just curious Not days, months. At 400 mg. per day. It took 4 months before I was able, for the first time in years, to begin physical rehab without crashing from the effort.
Any time I go off it, even years later, I end up with return of neuro symptoms, primarily.
Susan
Sonoran Dude - 03 Mar 2007 21:46 GMT > x-no-archive: yes > [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > > Susan Excellent... I was recently diagnosed with Neuro Boreliosis and plan to stay on it for a while myself. 9 months is supposed to help reverse dementia etc.
Susan - 03 Mar 2007 22:35 GMT >> x-no-archive: yes >> [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] > stay on it for a while myself. 9 months is supposed to help reverse > dementia etc. I wouldn't say it reversed it, but it improved some. If that's a concern for you, take steps to keep your blood sugar in tight control and don't eat a lot of starch or sugar. And consider taking Hydergine (ergoloid mesylates) permanently, 8-12 mg per day.
Susan
Murray Grossan - 01 Mar 2007 01:54 GMT Forbes.com
Health Lyme Inc. David Whelan 03.12.07
Ticks aren't the only parasites living off patients in borreliosis-prone areas.
Three years ago Heather Jenkins, a 30-year-old mom in Huntersville, N.C., was constantly fatigued and prone to colds. Her internist referred her to Dr. Joseph Jemsek, a self-described "Lyme Literate" doctor. During the initial consultation he asked if she had been bitten by a tick or gotten a rash. No, she replied, but she had gone camping once in Tennessee. He suggested she may have picked up Lyme disease there and sent her blood to a California lab that specializes in tests for tick diseases. A week later the test results came back: She had been infected by Borrelia burgdorferi, the spirochete that causes Lyme disease.
Jemsek installed a tube in Jenkins' arm and every two weeks for a year and a half sold Jenkins a $3,000 course of Rocephin, a powerful antibiotic, to infuse on her own at home. When she developed infections around the catheter in her arm the nurse would switch it. When her arms wore out she got a port implanted in her chest. As she waited for Jemsek to treat her latest infection, she collapsed on the floor, vomiting. Drug-resistant bacteria had overtaken her entire body. Jenkins landed in a hospital intensive care unit for four weeks, barely surviving. A doctor at Carolina Medical Center, where she recovered, told her that their labs could find no evidence in her blood that she'd ever had Lyme. "I was outraged," she says, and is now suing Jemsek. The near-death odyssey cost her insurance company $400,000. The action is pending, and Jemsek has made no comment.
Lyme disease, with 20,000 cases reported annually, ranks low on the list of the most prevalent infectious diseases. But it ranks first in rancor generated in the medical community. The disease is caused by bacteria related to syphilis that enter the body through a tick bite. The typical Lyme infection responds to simple antibiotics, although symptoms like arthritis and fatigue may linger in a subset of patients. Researchers at academic medical centers who study the disease say that so-called chronic Lyme, or post-Lyme, is very rare, hard to detect and not treatable with any further doses of antibiotics. The mainstream doctors warn about an epidemic of bunk diagnoses and dangerous treatments. Insurers often refuse to cover the cost of treating chronic Lyme.
Arrayed against the establishment is a fraternity of Lyme specialists, many of whom have built large practices treating ostensible Lyme patients with expensive courses of antibiotics.
Last year the North Carolina state medical board brought Jemsek in for a disciplinary hearing. Ten patients testified to nightmarish experiences. A widower said his wife had died from a morphine overdose related to Jemsek's Lyme treatments. Jemsek disputed all the charges vigorously. He also had 200 supporters show up, many of whom believe he cured them of a terrible disease. The Lyme Disease Association, a group that supports Jemsek, says that 30 chronic Lyme doctors have been similarly targeted by medical boards. Jemsek ultimately received a "suspension with stay" that allows him to keep practicing.
The light penalty may reflect the power of Lyme support groups, which blast politicians with mail and phone calls to ensure their access to expensive care. Standing with them now is Connecticut Attorney General Richard Blumenthal, who has received awards from Lyme groups and late last year announced that he was investigating the Infectious Diseases Society of America, an 8,000-member organization of doctors trained to understand diseases like AIDS, malaria and tuberculosis. Their crime? Issuing Lyme treatment guidelines to doctors that warned against using long-term infused or oral antibiotics.
Blumenthal, who hasn't yet issued any lawsuits in the case, says that the IDSA's guidelines may be in violation of antitrust laws. "Lyme disease is an extraordinarily insidious and widespread problem in Connecticut. We want to make sure that patients and physicians have unfettered choices," he declares. Insurance companies, he goes on, may be colluding with the IDSA to deny care. It's an odd charge, since a 1996 policy statement from the Federal Trade Commission and the Department of Justice says that treatment guidelines issued by medical societies do not limit competition. "You want medicine to advance by debate, not hampered by lawsuits," says Robert Buchanan, a medical-antitrust attorney in Boston.
Despite intimidation from elected officials like Blumenthal, the establishment has scored some hits against Lyme specialists. In 1993 Vithaldis Shah, a New Jersey doctor, had his license yanked for five years for sickening Lyme patients with long-term antibiotic treatments and receiving a payment from the infusion company. In 1996 a doctor in Michigan was suspended after conspiring with a home infusion company and misdiagnosing Lyme patients. In 2000 a study described the death of an anonymous woman from complications arising from treating unsubstantiated Lyme with antibiotics.
In Connecticut Dr. Charles Jones, a pediatrician, is under investigation by the state medical board for prescribing, over the phone, antibiotics for chronic Lyme to two children in Nevada, a desert state with few ticks. Jones, who pulled up to a June hearing in a stretch limo to the cheers of fans, has testified that he did not finalize a Lyme diagnosis until he saw the children in person. Since the hearings began, more upset patients have joined the action against Jones. Blumenthal, however, has criticized the medical board for its investigation.
Mainstream doctors say their guidelines are based on scientific evidence. An early study identified 25 patients with gallstones or bile blockage resulting from antibiotic treatment of unsubstantiated chronic Lyme. A more recent study of infused antibiotics published in the New England Journal of Medicine was cut short after Lyme sufferers with persistent symptoms did not respond to a course of antibiotics any better than they did to a placebo. One patient getting antibiotics had a pulmonary embolism; another had gastrointestinal bleeding.
Another paper in the Annals of Internal Medicine calls chronic Lyme a "functional somatic syndrome," similar to other nebulous ailments like Gulf War Syndrome, chronic fatigue and fibromyalgia. Another study in the same journal found that 60% of Lyme disease patients lacked any evidence of previous or active Lyme infections. Some of these patients suffered from depression, arthritis or other diseases. "There are lot of people who have fatigue or musculoskeletal pain. We want to help them but not with long-term antibiotics," says Dr. Gary Wormser, an infectious disease expert at New York Medical College who helped write the guidelines that prompted Blumenthal's attack. After the latest idsa guidelines came out in November, Wormser and his Valhalla, N.Y. lab were the target of a protest attended by hundreds of chronic Lyme patients and supporters; one sign said "Wormser Lies Patients Die."
Many of the chronic Lyme patients are upset that their insurance companies won't cover unlimited treatments. WellPoint will pay for only four weeks of IV antibiotics, citing published peer-reviewed studies. But science is no match for the Internet, where Lyme patients swarm chat boards to bemoan the persecution of their doctors and egg on politicians. Some celebrities have joined in the fray, such as novelist Amy Tan and Daryl Hall of rock duo Hall and Oates, both of whom say they suffer from chronic Lyme.
Tan's doctor is Raphael Stricker, president of the International Lyme & Associated Diseases Society, which represents chronic Lyme doctors and patients. Stricker's San Francisco clinic also advertises its ability to treat obesity, infertility, erectile dysfunction and AIDS. In 1990 Stricker was forced out of UC, San Francisco after the school claimed he falsified data in what had been a seminal AIDS study. Before he discovered Lyme he spent two years as associate medical director at a penis enlargement clinic.
Stricker and many of his chronic Lyme allies send their blood tests to a California lab called Igenex, which was once investigated by Medicare and the state of California for pumping out too many positive tests. Nick S. Harris, chief executive of Igenex, says he passed both investigations easily, but in 2001 the federal Office of the Inspector General put Igenex on a list of noncompliant labs. It paid fines totaling $48,000. Harris says his firm has had no recent brushes with regulators. Harris says that his tests are more sensitive than ones given by lab giants Quest Diagnostics and LabCorp, yielding positive results 25% of the time. The big national labs typically return positive results 8% of the time. He acknowledges that his results are more open to interpretation, which could facilitate more positive diagnoses. "Patients, because of the Internet, have become my best salesmen," Harris says.
Jemsek, who in 2005 collected $6 million from Blue Cross Blue Shield of North Carolina, is still practicing, having declared his earlier practice bankrupt. He opened a new cash-only practice, spending $8 million on a building with a waterfall and grand piano. On the Internet patients exchange tips about how to keep seeing him. In his statement to the medical board after the stayed suspension of his license, Jemsek, who declines to be interviewed, said: "I've got 400 letters of support here, many single-spaced and several pages long."
Subscribe to Forbes and Save. Click Here.
Susan - 01 Mar 2007 14:06 GMT A bunch of crap.
Try reading the letter once published in the journal Science, by my friend Carl Brenner for an intelligent discussion.
The international peer reviewed science doesn't support the academic's position at all, and I've been in the room when they've freely discussed it off the record.
You've been making unsubstantiated claims for a device you hawk online and I called you out on it, so you posted this to antagonize.
Susan
Susan - 01 Mar 2007 14:59 GMT I'd think any doctor would be embarrassed to reveal he relies on financial magazines for scientific information:
SOURCE: Science Magazine ISSUE: Vol 257, September 25, 1992, p1845 [LETTERS THE EDITOR] HEADLINE: Lyme Disease: Asking the Right Questions
(Ed note: This letter appeared as a follow-up to an article reporting on the controversy at the Fifth Int'l Conference on LD. At that conference, the organizers tried to remove certain abstracts that allegedly lacked "scientific merit." Pressure from patient groups had the abstracts re-instated. The offending abstracts primarily dealt with issues of chronic infection.)
I would like to elaborate on some of the issues discussed in Marcia Baringa's article about the controversy at the Fifth International Conference on Lyme Borreliosis (News & Comment, June 5, p1384). The academic Lyme disease researchers would have us believe that there is a methodological conflict between their own studies and their clinician opponents' "anecdotal" findings. Nothing could be further from the truth. Although criticisms of the offending abstracts submitted before the conference were not entirely without merit, the presumption that the existing body of academic Lyme disease literature represents some sort of scientific ideal is ludicrous.
The central flaw in the current Lyme disease orthodoxy is the persistent myth of "post-Lyme syndrome." This condition was suggested by researchers to account for the troublesome fact that many patients do not fully recover after supposedly curative antibiotic therapy, but continue to suffer from chronic headaches, cognitive deficits, debilitating fatigue, and parenthesis. These persistent symptoms are explained away by the fibromyalgia syndrome [1], which provides a convenient sense of closure to researchers but leaves patients in the throes of devastating illness.
There is ample evidence to retire this model in favor of one involving chronic infection. Some researchers have successfully cultured Bb from the skin or cerebrospinal fluid of patients after antibiotic regimens generally accepted as curative by academic researchers [2], while other clinicians have recovered the bacteria from patients who have undergone even long-term high-dosage antibiotic therapy [3]. In addition, researchers have demonstrated that Bb can penetrate and persist within human endothelial cells [4] and fibroblasts [5]. Yet most academic researchers continue to deny the prevalence of chronic infection in Lyme disease.
There are also flaws with the academicians' diagnostic protocols. Lyme disease presents physicians with a diagnostic dilemma because its symptoms are so diverse and the commonly available serological tests used in diagnosis are known to be unreliable. Thus, while it may seem reasonable for researchers to insist that clinicians confine their studies of long-term therapy to patients who are demonstrably seropositive, it is scientifically -- and morally -- indefensible to advocate a rigid adherence to this overly restrictive diagnostic procedure in a clinical setting to determine treatment. Arbitrarily withholding antibiotic therapy from all seronegative patients guarantees that an unacceptably high percentage of them will go on to develop incurable late-stage Lyme disease. Such a policy also can lead to the under reporting of the real incidence of Lyme disease. The artificially low figures are in turn used by researchers to reinforce their claim that Lyme disease is actually quite rare. Thus, the cycle of denial is complete. The facts, of course, strongly suggest that Lyme disease is seriously under diagnosed. New testing techniques presented at the international conference [6] indicate that Lyme disease will be found to be significantly more common than previously recognized.
The rejecting of the offending abstracts at the conference had much more to do with their conceptual challenge to current paradigms in Lyme disease research than with their alleged scientific deficiencies. Good science is as much about asking the right questions as it is the sensible pursuit of answers, and many Lyme disease patients do not feel that the mainstream Lyme disease researchers are asking the right questions.
The existing theories need to be reevaluated in light if the emerging evidence on chronic infection in late Lyme disease.
Carl Brenner Lamont-Doherty Geological Observatory of Columbia University Palisades, NY 10964
References: [1] L.H. Sigal, Am. J. Med. 88, 577 (1990) [2] V. Preac-Mursic et al., Infection 17, 355 (1989) [3] K. Liegner, C. Rosenkilde, G Campbell, T. Quan, D. Dennis, "Culture confirmed treatment failure of cefotaxime and minocycline in a case of Lyme meningoencephalomyelitis in the United States" (Abstr. #63, Fifth Int'l Conference on Lyme Borreliosis, Arlington, VA, 1992); E. Masters, P. Lynxwiler, J Rawlings, "Spirochetetemia two weeks post-cessation of six months of continuous p.o. amoxicillin therapy" (Abst. #65 Fifth Int'l Conference on Lyme Borreliosis, Arlington, VA, 1992) [4] Y. Ma, A. Sturrock, J. Weis, Infect. Immun. 59, 671 (1991). [5] Th. Haupl et al., "Persistence of Bb in chronic Lyme disease: altered immune regulation or evasion into immunologically privileges sites?" (Abstr #149, Fifth Int'l Conference of Lyme Borreliosis, Arlington, VA, 1992) [6] K. Liegner, C. Garon, D. Dorward, "Lyme borreliosis studies with the Rocky Mountain Laboratory (RML) antigen capture assay in urine" (Abstr #104, Fifth Int'l Conference on Lyme Borreliosis, Arlington, VA, 1992)
*****=*****
Susan
Ghamph - 02 Mar 2007 01:07 GMT > x-no-archive: yes > [quoted text clipped - 28 lines] > > Susan Thanks for that missing info , Susan. With new testing techniques , would this mean an even longer course of expensive treatment? And would this disease be more intentionally overlooked because of the great cost. The world is for the rich , and the well insured. Jamffer
Susan - 02 Mar 2007 01:30 GMT > Thanks for that missing info , Susan. With new testing techniques , would > this mean an even longer course of expensive treatment? And would this > disease be more intentionally overlooked because of the great cost. The > world is for the rich , and the well insured. > Jamffer Not so. My Lyme doc, and my child's rx'd oral antibiotics, some generic.
I use high dose oral doxycycline.
The tests are of no meaningful use, clinically speaking. The only thing that should determine length of treatment is patient progress or lack of it.
Susan
Murray Grossan - 02 Mar 2007 02:31 GMT On 3/1/07 6:06 AM, in article 54o4ucF21d4toU4@mid.individual.net, "Susan" <nevermind@nomail.com> wrote:
> I called you out on it, so you posted this to antagonize. > > Susan Susan, I treat patients with tinnitus and Lyme disease is a subject that can be a tinnitus factor. I didn't write this article. Since when is information a form of antagonism? There are persons on this news group that correspond here who desire information. Most persons with tinnitus do better if they take an active role, and this means education.
Susan - 02 Mar 2007 13:51 GMT > Susan, I treat patients with tinnitus and Lyme disease is a subject that can > be a tinnitus factor. I didn't write this article. Since when is information > a form of antagonism? There are persons on this news group that correspond > here who desire information. > Most persons with tinnitus do better if they take an active role, and this > means education. \Murray, you've never posted a single clinical or scientific article or comment about tick borne diseases.
What you posted was completely contrary to the available body of international science, it was a smear campaign.
It doesn't surprise me, though, that your interest in financial publications is far greater than your appetite for good, accurate science, because you keep making scientifically unsupportable claims for the products you sell online.
I'm all about honesty and openness.
Susan
Sonoran Dude - 02 Mar 2007 16:49 GMT > x-no-archive: yes > [quoted text clipped - 23 lines] > > Susan I'll agree with Susan on this. My mom was the housewife that cured her husband from relapsing fever (Western Lyme) in the early 80s. The doctors had diagnosed acute leukemia and he had Lyme. Our entire family was exposed to the virus and live with it day by day. My brother developed full blown MS that is quite common with Lyme Disease infected people. He has been physically active for nearly 15 years after his diagnosis. He still skis, rides bikes, and rock climbs using periodic anti-biotic treatment.
It is a bacteria just like Syphilis and can not be eradicated but can be controlled with anti-biotic treatment. IV injections have not proved to be any more effective than an inexpensive oral dosage that is equal to acne therapy.
Many Lyme patients are achieving positive life changing results that cost less than $30 a month paying cash. The only purpose I can see of the Forbes article is to help big business and drug companies smear anti-biotic treatment of Lyme so that doctors will be more willing to try their dangerous and expensive designer drugs to treat our crippling symptoms.
Throw away the crutches and wheel chairs, anti-biotics can help.
Ghamph - 02 Mar 2007 00:40 GMT > Forbes.com > [quoted text clipped - 35 lines] > interviewed, said: "I've got 400 letters of support here, many single-spaced > and several pages long." Thank you for that. Unfortunately I'm afraid , it is only the tip of the iceberg. It only adds to my existing anxiety about doctors , labs. , and hospitals. Being a good doctor , is one of the most demanding jobs that there is. But when they break the oath of "first do no harm" I wonder how many put that second following money? If Heather didn't have insurance , her diagnosis would have been more benign , I'll wager. Jamffer
Janice - 03 Mar 2007 02:30 GMT Another fine example of parasites is Nagler living off the Usenet groups just to feed a mental illness.
> Forbes.com > [quoted text clipped - 268 lines] > > Subscribe to Forbes and Save. Click Here.
|
|
|