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Medical Forum / Diseases and Disorders / Tinnitus / July 2006Be aware of drug pushers.
lately there has been a tendency for addictive drugs to be recommended to T patients in alt. I can understand the receptiveness to this recommendation from those who are suffering from a tormenting illness named tinnitus. I just want to remind the participants in this group that there are many stops before you have to resort to addictive drugs like Ativan. A couple of years ago when I was in a living hell of T, i went through all sorts of meds and treatments including taking Ativan. I just want to share with all of you that for most of you it is not necessary to take highly addictive drugs to have your T brought under control during its onset. The following is what I posted back to the days of a maddening illness: http://groups.google.com/group/alt.support.tinnitus/browse_frm/thread/3b2f6a54b2 abe667/d175366cc2b12474?lnk=gst&q=betahistine+fyfpoon&rnum=4#d175366cc2b12474 FP > lately there has been a tendency for addictive drugs to be recommended > to T patients in alt. I can understand the receptiveness to this [quoted text clipped - 14 lines] > > FP For many people desperate for any type of help and relief, something such as Ativan or Xanax can be a literal life saver in calming down the situation. Telling the patient to get some acupuncture or hyperbaric treatments only leads to more frustration and desperation. But of course, your bias and preconceived notions (in reference to your heading) eliminates any possibility of rational discussion. frank > For many people desperate for any type of help and relief, > something such as Ativan or Xanax can be a literal life > saver in calming down the situation. Telling the patient > to get some acupuncture or hyperbaric treatments only > leads to more frustration and desperation. This is very true. Since I have Meniere's, I need medication. I specifically stated I was not "pushing" anyone to take drugs. That's between a person and his doctor. > But of course, your bias and preconceived notions > (in reference to your heading) eliminates any > possibility of rational discussion. > > frank I agree. I know it was aimed at me, but I do not respond to this person anymore. My needing xanax can be likened to a diabetic needing insulin. Eva > > For many people desperate for any type of help and relief, > > something such as Ativan or Xanax can be a literal life [quoted text clipped - 14 lines] > I agree. I know it was aimed at me, but I do not respond to this person > anymore. My needing xanax can be likened to a diabetic needing insulin. It was not aimed at you but was meant for anyone who refuse to explore alternatives first before prescribing highly addictive drugs. In your case, of course go for it if that is what you and your doctors have come to conclude. But it does not mean it applies to others such as Mr.Y who is experiencing high pitched T. Take an English comprehension course and do so with drfrank in the same class, and you will be able to debate less emotionally. > Eva > > But of course, your bias and preconceived notions > > (in reference to your heading) eliminates any [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > > Eva Eva, the only reason I responded to this knucklehead is that if someone new (to tinnitus and the newsgroup) reads this without getting a rational counterpoint he/she may suffer needlessly without realizing that there may be a viable option out there. I think your analogy is a very valid one. frank > > > But of course, your bias and preconceived notions > > > (in reference to your heading) eliminates any [quoted text clipped - 14 lines] > > I think your analogy is a very valid one. drfrank, please admit that you are intellectually and professionally inferior in terms of how you rationalize with the use of a certain medical method in the treatment of tinnitus patients. You do NOT go to the last stop of using highly addictive drugs unless there is no "a viable option out there" but there are and there are quite a few. And i have cited at least BETAHISTINE but you don't seem to have a clue of something that is sold OTC in HK. FP > frank > Eva, the only reason I responded to this knucklehead > is that if someone new (to tinnitus and the newsgroup) > reads this without getting a rational counterpoint > he/she may suffer needlessly without realizing that > there may be a viable option out there. Yes, I realize that somebody has to respond to him or new people won't realize that there are many options. I find it frustrating that he has only one answer when there are many reasons for tinnitus and many solutions. New people coming to this group may not realize that this guy is a troll and is only here to cause trouble and insult people. I know most people in here have him in their kill files, but then he gets to spew his nonsense without having anybody refute his claims. > I think your analogy is a very valid one. > > frank Thanks. I must say, it is hard to resist responding to fp when he goes to his default statement that the person he's talking to just doesn't comprehend English. It's pretty funny when you look carefully at what he says. :) In a recent note, he says betahistine makes him drowsy. Then he goes on to say there are no side effects. That just doesn't make sense. When I look at a web site regarding betahistine, it lists stomach upset and headaches as side effects. Eva > > lately there has been a tendency for addictive drugs to be recommended > > to T patients in alt. I can understand the receptiveness to this [quoted text clipped - 18 lines] > something such as Ativan or Xanax can be a literal life > saver in calming down the situation. Only after these people have tried other non-addictive drugs such as BETAHISTINE. Telling the patient > to get some acupuncture or hyperbaric treatments only > leads to more frustration and desperation. Did I in my post suggest patients should forget about addictive drugs but go for "acupuncture or hyperbaric treatments"? You are putting your words into my mouth. > But of course, your bias and preconceived notions > (in reference to your heading) eliminates any > possibility of rational discussion. The possibility of a rational discussion is eliminated when you are as a college student and medical school graduate unable to comprehend English and respond appropriately. FP > frank > Did I in my post suggest patients should forget about addictive drugs > but go for "acupuncture or hyperbaric treatments"? You are putting your > words into my mouth. Your general message, while I have been reading this group, is that western doctors are dummies and alternative medicine should be tried first. Here is an example: "The possibility of a rational discussion is eliminated when you are as a college student and medical school graduate unable to comprehend English and respond appropriately." College students and medical school graduates are well able to understand English. Now you are recommending betahistine, but it isn't cheap and it has not been shown to be effective. <http://www.dizziness-and-balance.com/treatment/serc.html> > > Did I in my post suggest patients should forget about addictive drugs > > but go for "acupuncture or hyperbaric treatments"? You are putting your [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > western doctors are dummies and alternative medicine should be tried > first. Your comprehension or interpretation of what i write is no bench mark for general reference to what i intend to say. It is just *you* and you are no authority! > Here is an example: > > "The possibility of a rational discussion is eliminated when you are as > a college student and medical school graduate unable to comprehend > English and respond appropriately." That is in reply to drfrank's reply but is totally un -related to your scenario of "western doctors are dummies and alternative medicine should be tried first". YOu are just trying to say something for the sake of saying it. > College students and medical school graduates are well able to > understand English. Not necessarily. Last year i was in a Chinese school that employed 11 college graduates from the US as English teachers. It turned out that their written English is worse than the local Chinese teachers' while their American language is superior to the latter's. > > Now you are recommending betahistine, but it isn't cheap and it has not > been shown to be effective. > > <http://www.dizziness-and-balance.com/treatment/serc.html> I have tried it and it is in popular demand by tinnitus patients. Forget about the micky mouse studies you read. ====================== > > > Did I in my post suggest patients should forget about addictive drugs > > > but go for "acupuncture or hyperbaric treatments"? You are putting your [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > for general reference to what i intend to say. It is just *you* and > you are no authority! Yes, that's right, but the clear implication of your messages is that western doctors are dummies and alternative medicine and herbalists should be tried first. > > Here is an example: > > [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > should be tried first". YOu are just trying to say something for the > sake of saying it. Medical school graduates are doctors. You're saying western doctors are so dumb they don't even understand English. > > College students and medical school graduates are well able to > > understand English. > > Not necessarily. Yes, they do. You can't graduate from a medical school where all the classes are taught in English if you don't understand English. > Last year i was in a Chinese school that employed 11 > college graduates from the US as English teachers. It turned out that > their written English is worse than the local Chinese teachers' while > their American language is superior to the latter's. You'll have parse that for me. apparently, I can't understand your English. What does it have to do with doctors? > > Now you are recommending betahistine, but it isn't cheap and it has not > > been shown to be effective. [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > I have tried it and it is in popular demand by tinnitus patients. > Forget about the micky mouse studies you read. That's another example. Your clear implication is that western science is wrong. > > > > Did I in my post suggest patients should forget about addictive drugs > > > > but go for "acupuncture or hyperbaric treatments"? You are putting your [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] > western doctors are dummies and alternative medicine and herbalists > should be tried first. The clear "implication" is that you have a good command of wherever-you-are language but a poor command of English. > > > Here is an example: > > > [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > Medical school graduates are doctors. You're saying western doctors are > so dumb they don't even understand English. Does the intellectual inferiority of one person represent the quality of the whole group? That you Martin is very dumb does not mean the people in where you live are also very dumb. > > > College students and medical school graduates are well able to > > > understand English. [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > Yes, they do. You can't graduate from a medical school where all the > classes are taught in English if you don't understand English. They can understand English much as engineers understand the English description related to engineering but this does not mean they are able to do as well in subjects outside their own profession. > > Last year i was in a Chinese school that employed 11 > > college graduates from the US as English teachers. It turned out that [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > You'll have parse that for me. apparently, I can't understand your > English. What does it have to do with doctors? It tells you not all college graduates are good in English. The US college graduates in general are good in American language but not English. > > > Now you are recommending betahistine, but it isn't cheap and it has not > > > been shown to be effective. [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > That's another example. Your clear implication is that western science > is wrong. This example shows not all studies are valid in light of clinical experiences but it does not implicate "that western science is wrong" in your sweeping generalization. Your English may be good but your mind is not sophisticated enough. > > > > > Did I in my post suggest patients should forget about addictive drugs > > > > > but go for "acupuncture or hyperbaric treatments"? You are putting [quoted text clipped - 57 lines] > college graduates in general are good in American language but not > English. I can see why you would say that, but no one else here is supporting your position on how best to deal with tinnitus. Your defense of your position consists mainly of claiming the people who disagree with you don't understand English. > > > > Now you are recommending betahistine, but it isn't cheap and it has not > > > > been shown to be effective. [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] > in your sweeping generalization. Your English may be good but your > mind is not sophisticated enough. You wrote "Forget about the micky mouse studies you read." The clear implication of that English statement is that western science is wrong. One of us truly does not understand English. snipped... > I can see why you would say that, but no one else here is supporting > your position on how best to deal with tinnitus. (1)Have you done a survey as to "No one here"? (2)Is the absence of anyone here a medical authority? (3)You are speaking like a British islander in HK who needs to pull 'others' as a way to reinforce one'e view. Your defense of your > position consists mainly of claiming the people who disagree with you > don't understand English. No, if that were true, i would not have cited medical examples. When people are reply with something totally irrelevant to what is being posted, it draws into question their level of English and intellectual comprehension. > > > > > Now you are recommending betahistine, but it isn't cheap and it has not > > > > > been shown to be effective. [quoted text clipped - 14 lines] > You wrote "Forget about the micky mouse studies you read." The clear > implication of that English statement is that western science is wrong. (1)Is "micky mouse studies" tentamount to western science being wrong? (2)Does western science consist of all micky mouse studies? > One of us truly does not understand English. Both of us understand English but understanding English is not enough. You need to be more intellectually sophisticated than just simply throwing out some words. > snipped... > > > > I can see why you would say that, but no one else here is supporting > > your position on how best to deal with tinnitus. > > (1)Have you done a survey as to "No one here"? Yes, I have been following the board for several months. No one supports your position. > (2)Is the absence of anyone here a medical authority? You'll have to parse that one for me, please, because it doesn't look like correct English to me. > (3)You are speaking like a British islander in HK who needs to pull > 'others' as a way to reinforce one'e view. Ok, but that doesn't invalidate anything I wrote. You can call me whatever names you want. > Your defense of your > > position consists mainly of claiming the people who disagree with you [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > posted, it draws into question their level of English and intellectual > comprehension. Maybe, but I didn't do what you accuse me of doing, and the general message that runs through your posts is clearly that you don't like western medicine and you think western doctors are dummies. > > > > > > Now you are recommending betahistine, but it isn't cheap and it has > > > > > > not [quoted text clipped - 18 lines] > (1)Is "micky mouse studies" tentamount to western science being wrong? > (2)Does western science consist of all micky mouse studies? Those are both Hobson's choices. Deceitful of you. The answer is clearly no on both, but neither question is relevant. The general message in your posts is that you mean the answer to both is yes. > > One of us truly does not understand English. > > Both of us understand English but understanding English is not enough. > You need to be more intellectually sophisticated than just simply > throwing out some words. I'm a very smart guy. snipped... > Maybe, but I didn't do what you accuse me of doing, and the general > message that runs through your posts is clearly that you don't like > western medicine and you think western doctors are dummies. I am not sure about the western doctors _in general_, as your sweeping generation encompasses, but i do think some western doctors here in alt are pretty dumb! > I'm a very smart guy. I am not sure about this too but you do appear to have a lot of time like i have. > snipped... > > Maybe, but I didn't do what you accuse me of doing, and the general [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > I am not sure about this too but you do appear to have a lot of time > like i have. I don't have a lot of time. I am about to become unemployed, so I am trying to find a job. It looks like I will be moving to Australia. > > snipped... > > > Maybe, but I didn't do what you accuse me of doing, and the general [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] > I don't have a lot of time. I am about to become unemployed, so I am > trying to find a job. It looks like I will be moving to Australia. Where are you living right now? Australia is too dry and too socialist. Go to the US or the eastern part of Canada. > > > snipped... > > > > Maybe, but I didn't do what you accuse me of doing, and the general [quoted text clipped - 15 lines] > Where are you living right now? Australia is too dry and too > socialist. Go to the US or the eastern part of Canada. I'm in Norway, and I have lived in Australia before. Neither Norway nor Australia is any more socialist than the US, which is to say they are all three capitalist. I think both Norway and Australia have better health care systems. Coincidentally, both have universal public health care.
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