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Medical Forum / Diseases and Disorders / Tinnitus / July 2006

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Visual analogue to tinnitus

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Joe Sterling - 17 Jul 2006 03:35 GMT
One recent (not) quiet evening as I was obsessing about my tinnitus, I
began to wonder if there was a visual analogue to this condition.  And
after a few minutes with Google, Ask, and Alta Vista, I found that
there indeed was such a thing.  Colloquially, it is called "visual
snow", although the technical term is "persistent aura".  It is often,
but not always, associated with migraine headaches.

The sufferer will see any one of a variety of things that "are not
there", including what looks like snow or static on a TV screen, blobs
moving across his or her field of vision, vortices spinning in the
center of the field of vision or in a corner.

Many cases are idiopathic (no known cause), and the constant visual
disturbance causes levels of distress for many sufferers that match
what we tinnitus cognescenti report.  Yes, Virginia, there is a
parallel ailment.  Ironically, many visual snow sufferers also have
tinnitus, although visual snow itself seems to be much less common than
tinnitus.

Another interesting parallel is that sufferers of visual snow complain
about the lack of understanding from opthalmologists and optometrists
in a way that parallels our own often negative experiences with ENTs.

Take a look at

http://www.migraine-aura.org/EN/Persistent_migraine_aura_symptoms_aka_visual_sno
w.html


to learn more.

Cheers,

Joe
drfrank21@gmail.com - 17 Jul 2006 21:45 GMT
> One recent (not) quiet evening as I was obsessing about my tinnitus, I
> began to wonder if there was a visual analogue to this condition.  And
[quoted text clipped - 28 lines]
>
> Joe

As an eye care provider with 20+  yrs in the field, I have never
seen anyone present with a constant/ongoing visual aura, only
those associated with ocular migraines/regular migraines
which are  transient. So if persistent auras are out there,
I (and I have asked seveal of my colleagues) have not
run across any. So the incidence of tinnitus and what
you describe are not comparable. Now floaters, which are
pieces of vitreal debris, can be more or less permanent.

Basically the same processes occur with new onset
of floaters as with tinnitus, that of habituation. When
patients first come in with new floaters, many are
anxious and quite bothered but with reassurance about
the habituation process the patients usually are able
to "forget about them" over time.

Also, in tinnitus there is a fairly high correlation between
loss of hearing and tinnitus whereas there would be none
between floaters/visual auras and permanent loss of vision.

frank
Joe Sterling - 18 Jul 2006 02:41 GMT
> > One recent (not) quiet evening as I was obsessing about my tinnitus, I
> > began to wonder if there was a visual analogue to this condition.  And
[quoted text clipped - 50 lines]
>
> frank

There are numerous cases of "visual snow" without any headache, and
they are 24/7.  And these are not just "floaters".  As stated, it is
less common than tinnitus, but it is hardly unknown (even if it is
something you have not encountered).  You can read the case histories
on the link I provided or else look at this one:
http://www.medhelp.org/forums/neuro/messages/31637.html.

There is also a visual snow support group on ezboard.

My point was that this syndrome is a visual analogue to tinnitus.
Granted that there are dissimilarities.  One of these -- as you observe
-- is that there is no association between visual snow and vision loss,
although there is between tinnitus and hearing loss.
tonyjeffs@tonyjeffs.com - 18 Jul 2006 05:24 GMT
You're right Joe.

I have floaters, distortion and visual snow in my vision.
The first two 'vanish' when I shut my eyes, so aren't quite the same,
but the snow is always there, permanantly day and night -  analogous to
tinnitus.
tonyjeffs

> > > One recent (not) quiet evening as I was obsessing about my tinnitus, I
> > > began to wonder if there was a visual analogue to this condition.  And
> > > after a few minutes with Google, Ask, and Alta Vista, I found that
> > > there indeed was such a thing.  Colloquially, it is called "visual
> > > snow", although the technical term is "persistent aura".  It is often,
> > > but not always, associated with migraine headaches.
quiet down - 20 Jul 2006 22:36 GMT
hi all,
  this is what my eye disturbance looks like.  except
i have all sorts of pretty colors with mine.
     http://www.ship.edu/~cgboeree/amigraineaura.html

> You're right Joe.
>
[quoted text clipped - 10 lines]
> > > > snow", although the technical term is "persistent aura".  It is often,
> > > > but not always, associated with migraine headaches.
Jim Chinnis - 19 Jul 2006 01:52 GMT
"Joe Sterling" <bgmpsl@hotmail.com> wrote in part:

>One recent (not) quiet evening as I was obsessing about my tinnitus, I
>began to wonder if there was a visual analogue to this condition.  And
[quoted text clipped - 28 lines]
>
>Joe

Very good discussion.

I have a visual aura that began appearing about the same time as my
tinnitus. At present, it occurs only upon opening my eyes first thing in the
morning. A while back, it  occurred at random times and was clearly a
migraine fortification-type aura (without headache) lasting about 40 minutes
and making me virtually blind for a short while each time.
Signature

Jim Chinnis / Warrenton, Virginia, USA
Want to discuss Meniere's? See http://groups.yahoo.com/group/MenieresDG

tonyjeffs@tonyjeffs.com - 19 Jul 2006 02:20 GMT
visual aura?

> Very good discussion.
>
[quoted text clipped - 6 lines]
> Jim Chinnis / Warrenton, Virginia, USA
> Want to discuss Meniere's? See http://groups.yahoo.com/group/MenieresDG
Eva Quesnell - 19 Jul 2006 18:03 GMT
This site gives an example of what a visual aura looks like, Tony.  :)

http://www.migraine-aura.org/EN/ICHD-II_1.5.3_Persistent_ma_wo_infarction.html

Scroll down a little to see the example. Weird, huh?

Eva

> visual aura?
>
[quoted text clipped - 8 lines]
>> Jim Chinnis / Warrenton, Virginia, USA
>> Want to discuss Meniere's? See http://groups.yahoo.com/group/MenieresDG
Martin Smith - 19 Jul 2006 06:13 GMT
> "Joe Sterling" <bgmpsl@hotmail.com> wrote in part:
>
[quoted text clipped - 39 lines]
> migraine fortification-type aura (without headache) lasting about 40 minutes
> and making me virtually blind for a short while each time.

There is a brain problem, a syndrome, I guess, not sure it should be
called a disease, in which two or more of the senses become sort of
merged. I can't remember the name of this problem, but I think it was
some variation of the word "synthesis." Anyway, people who have this
syndrome report that they can see sounds, or that they can hear colors,
that sort of thing. I guess they think it has something to do with
sensory inputs getting sent to multiple interpretation areas of the
brain.
Martin Smith - 19 Jul 2006 06:49 GMT
In article
<burning.giraffe-B74B3B.07130619072006@isp-text.ams.giganews.com>,

> > "Joe Sterling" <bgmpsl@hotmail.com> wrote in part:
> >
[quoted text clipped - 51 lines]
> sensory inputs getting sent to multiple interpretation areas of the
> brain.

Here it is: Synesthesia <http://www.mixsig.net>
drfrank21@gmail.com - 19 Jul 2006 20:11 GMT
> There is a brain problem, a syndrome, I guess, not sure it should be
> called a disease, in which two or more of the senses become sort of
[quoted text clipped - 4 lines]
> sensory inputs getting sent to multiple interpretation areas of the
> brain.

I've actually seen a couple of patients, after closed head injuries,
who have experienced this phenomenom. One neurologist tried
some medication without success. Kinda interesting.

frank
Susan - 19 Jul 2006 14:30 GMT
> Very good discussion.
>
[quoted text clipped - 3 lines]
> migraine fortification-type aura (without headache) lasting about 40 minutes
> and making me virtually blind for a short while each time.

Not to cause you worry, but today's newspaper had the news that women in
the Framingham study who had visual aura's with migraines had more heart
disease than those who had migraine without auras.  :-/

Susan
Jim Chinnis - 19 Jul 2006 15:25 GMT
Susan <nevermind@nomail.com> wrote in part:

>x-no-archive: yes
>
[quoted text clipped - 11 lines]
>
>Susan

Yeah, it's been known for some time that the risk of stroke rises with
presence of migraine and takes another jump if auras are involved. Not much
I can do except to reduce stroke and heart disease risks by all means
available. The causal relationship between auras and strokes hasn't been
shown, and if it exists no one knows what it is, exactly--though
constriction of vessels is a likely guess.
Signature

Jim Chinnis / Warrenton, Virginia, USA
Want to discuss Meniere's? See http://groups.yahoo.com/group/MenieresDG

Susan - 19 Jul 2006 16:01 GMT
Now this:

http://www.medbroadcast.com/channel_health_news_details.asp?news_id=10289&rss=67
&rid=999999&channel_id=1057&rot=3


Medical journal says it was misled again by doctors with industry ties

Jul. 19, 2006

Provided by: Canadian Press
Written by: LINDSEY TANNER

CHICAGO (AP) - Just days after announcing a crackdown on researchers
who do not disclose drug company ties, the editor of a prestigious
medical journal says she was misled again - this time by the authors of
a study linking severe migraines to heart attacks in women.

All six study authors have done consulting work or received research
funding from makers of treatments for migraines or heart-related
problems. Their research appears in Wednesday's Journal of the American
Medical Association, a week after the crackdown was announced.

The authors said they did not report their financial ties because they
did not believe they were relevant to the study.

Dr. Catherine DeAngelis, JAMA's editor in chief, said journal editors
did not know about the ties until The Associated Press brought them to
her attention late last week.

"We'll get killed," she said, referring to the potential damage to the
journal's reputation.

She said she would have published the authors' associations with drug
makers had she known about them. "Let me decide what's pertinent or
not," DeAngelis said. "The issue is not what can those companies
possibly gain; it is the issue of perception."

Last week, JAMA disclosed that the authors of a depression study failed
to report ties to makers of antidepressants. And two months ago, the
journal reported similar omissions from authors of a study linking
certain arthritis drugs to cancer.

JAMA has long required researchers whose articles it will publish to
sign statements disclosing all potential financial conflicts. An
editorial last week said JAMA was getting tougher as a result of the
recent breaches. JAMA's new policy, effective in January, requires
disclosures even before articles are accepted for publication.

Other leading medical journals, including the New England Journal of
Medicine, JAMA's main competitor, have disclosure requirements, but
DeAngelis said hers are the toughest. Editors say disclosures are
necessary to help readers judge the reliability of research.

DeAngelis said a letter from the authors explaining the omissions would
be published online and in an upcoming issue of the journal, along with
her response.

"Authors should always err on the side of full disclosure," she wrote
in her response.

Dr. Tobias Kurth, the study's lead author, said the researchers were
not trying to mislead the journal. He said they believed their
financial ties were irrelevant because the study does not promote drug
treatment, but rather reports a potential link between women with
severe migraines and an increased risk of heart attacks.

"They do not represent a conflict of interest," Kurth, a scientist at
Harvard's Brigham and Women's Hospital, said in a telephone interview.
Kurth said he has received research funding from the makers of Bayer
Aspirin, Tylenol and Advil, pain relievers sometimes used to treat
migraines.

Co-author Nancy Cook said in an e-mail that she received "minor
compensation" for a one-time consulting stint for Bayer, but that she
did not think it was relevant to her work on the migraine study.

"I do believe that conflicts sometimes exist and should be disclosed,
but I hope this issue does not get overblown by the media," Cook said.
"I think that could harm the reputations of honest and well-meaning
researchers and lead to public mistrust where none is warranted."

Dr. Frederick Freitag, a Chicago migraine specialist not involved in
the study, said the ties should have been reported, even if they had no
effect on the research.

"You still owe it as a matter of appropriate disclosure to lay your
cards on the table" or risk having somebody ask, "What are you hiding?"
he said.

Freitag said he has ties with numerous drug companies because they are
the ones that fund important research.

Dr. Jerome Kassirer, a former New England Journal editor and outspoken
critic of drug company influence over doctors, said JAMA editors appear
not to have done their homework. "It sounds like they're being sloppy,"
Kassirer said.

DeAngelis said that the criticism is unfair, and that JAMA lacks the
manpower to check every researcher's background. "I'm not God and I'm
not the FBI," she said.

She said the publicity probably will make others who haven't disclosed
potential conflicts reconsider.

"I suspect we are going to have a whole bunch of disclosures over the
next few weeks because authors are going to see how dead serious we
are," DeAngelis said.

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