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Medical Forum / Diseases and Disorders / Tinnitus / May 2006Does this have anything to do with gingko biloba?
I was recommended to take gingko biloba for my tinnitus more than a year ago and I have been taking it ever since. The doctor told me gingko is good for 'cleansing' the blood vessels aside from improving the blood circulation in my head. A few days ago I went to have a blood composition check-up, the results compare very favorably with what they were about a year ago. The only medication I have been taking ever since in addition to my HBP pills is gingko and nothing else. 2005.01.03 2006.05.20 TCH 6.16 TCH 4.45 HDL-C 2.04 HDL-C 1.76 LDL-C 3.82 LDL-C 2.46 TG 1.51 TG 1.15 GLU 5.95 GLU 5.18 I am still eating and drinking like i used to, but have lost about 5 pounds in the process. Could it have been due to gingko? Views? Ginko dilates blood vessels. If you lost weight you have modified your eating habits or exercised more. Elly's Tinnitus Resources http://eebee.net/ >I was recommended to take gingko biloba for my tinnitus more than a >year ago and I have been taking it ever since. The doctor told me [quoted text clipped - 18 lines] > >Views? My life habit is still the same, eating, smoking and drinking, except that i take less of each. Last time when I brought the results of my lipuid profile to the 'high-tech' doctors in Hong Kong Adventist Hospital and another fancy private clinic in Hong Kong, the doctors there STRONGLY advised me to put on lipitor or other kinds of anti-cholestral drugs 'right away'. According to their diagnosis, which they might have learned from 'scientific' studies, my lipuid profile was getting dangerous! On the other hand, a friend of mine was having an acceptable lipuid profile and had to go for a heart by-pass. Gingko, in the process of thinning blood, improving blood circulation and thus cleaning up some rubbish in the blood vessels along the way, helps the kidney function better. A fortified kidney enables the whole body to function better. Gingko has been under observation for thousands of years in China, albeit it has not gone through enough 'controlled' studies in the west. > I was recommended to take gingko biloba for my tinnitus more than a > year ago and I have been taking it ever since. The doctor told me > gingko is good for 'cleansing' the blood vessels aside from improving > the blood circulation in my head. > A few days ago I went to have a blood composition check-up, the results > compare very favorably with what they were about a year ago. The only > medication I have been taking ever since in addition to my HBP pills is > gingko and nothing else. Diet is not a constant. > 2005.01.03 2006.05.20 > TCH 6.16 TCH 4.45 [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > I am still eating and drinking like i used to, but have lost about 5 > pounds in the process. The overall balance of how much physical work you do and your diet HAS changed when you have lost weight. > Could it have been due to gingko? No. > Views? You seem to live a generally healthy life, worry less. Kind regards Peter Larsen  Signature******************************************* * My site is at: http://www.muyiovatki.dk * ******************************************* Peter Larsen wrote:" NO...". How do you know that? The ealiest profile was done on Nov 3 of 2003. It was as bad as the one in 2005.01.03. The time period from 2005.01.03 to 2006.05.20 was a period of stress and worry for me. So it could not have been due to the reason you stated. If there is any other reason aside from gingko, it is that I eat natural oats as breakfast at least 1/3 of the time for that past 10 months. Have you read or done enough studies on gingko yourself to have come to the conclusion you have made? FP > Peter Larsen wrote:" NO...". > How do you know that? The ealiest profile was done on Nov 3 of 2003. > It was as bad as the one in 2005.01.03. The time period from > 2005.01.03 to 2006.05.20 was a period of stress and worry for me. So > it could not have been due to the reason you stated. If there is any > other reason aside from gingko, it is that I eat natural oats as > breakfast at least 1/3 of the time for that past 10 months. Oats are a well known documented valid anti-cholesterol medication, Gingko is not. > Have you read or done enough studies on gingko yourself > to have come to the conclusion you have made? As you ask: yes, because I have occasionally taken it for more than 10 years and I have had at least one annual blood test since 2000. In a scientific sense, no, I have no documentation. But your question boils down to whether a proven anti-cholesterol food or an anticoagulant reduced cholesterol. > FP Oh, btw. ... you will eventually have to give up smoking anyway, do it while it is a choice. Do it some day where it matters not. Do not announce it, just do it as nothing more important as deciding no longer to use green socks, just a choice. The less energy you put into stopping, the easier it will be, but beware3 of weight gain .... one of the gains you will get is the one of less tinnitus over time. Kind regards Peter Larsen Signature******************************************* * My site is at: http://www.muyiovatki.dk * ******************************************* Peter, I have never been addicted to smoking cigarettes. I do NOT like cigarettes at all. I like cigars but cigars are very expensive. Years ago in an occasion, I felt that I just wanted to keep smoking a certain brand of cigarettes. I at once discontinued it. Then i went back to the same brand later on but the addiction feeling was no longer there. So don't be worried about my smoking one pack of cigarettes in a week. It is not going to kill but it kills tension from time to time. I usually don't smoke at all unless I can do it with some hard liquor. While alchohol dilates blood vessels, nichotine narrows it. FP >Peter, > [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] >usually don't smoke at all unless I can do it with some hard liquor. >While alchohol dilates blood vessels, nichotine narrows it. But you have made such a fuss about how modern doctors have mistreated you. And all the while you have been smoking and drinking? You have been trying to get healthy while smoking and drinking? Both have effects on other medication you are taking. In particular, when you were taking Ativan, you should not have been drinking any alcohol at all. How can you be so fussy about traditional Chinese medicine if you are smoking and drinking at the same time? Occasional and moderate smoking like a few cans of beer a weekm a glass of red wine once in a while, or a couple of cigarettes once in a while would not have constituted any scientific experiment to prove anything at all. You may want to try that too. I took Ativan before bed time and the influence of alcohol taken in lunch or dinner time would have evaporated completely by then. By the way, have you read or done any controlled studies on the relationship between Chinese medicine and alcohol, a/o the quantity of alcohol used and the effectiveness of CM? How about a sip of brandy once in a great while and CM??? > Occasional and moderate smoking like a few cans of beer a weekm a glass > of red wine once in a while, or a couple of cigarettes once in a while > would not have constituted any scientific experiment to prove anything > at all. You may want to try that too. I took Ativan before bed time > and the influence of alcohol taken in lunch or dinner time would have > evaporated completely by then. But everywhere you look to read about Ativan, it says don't use alcohol. So you used alcohol while medicating with a benzodiazapine, which you didn't know was addictive, and then after becoming addicted you cut your dose in half to discontinue it. You made almost every mistake you can make. Did you also operate heavy machinery? > By the way, have you read or done any controlled studies on the > relationship between Chinese medicine and alcohol, a/o the quantity of > alcohol used and the effectiveness of CM? How about a sip of brandy > once in a great while and CM??? I don't know. I don't use alcohol much, and never when I am taking prescription medicine. Martin wrote:"But *everywhere* you look to read about Ativan, it says don't use alcohol. " Are you a British, Martin? You remind me of the style of generation making of the British in Hong Kong. > Martin wrote:"But *everywhere* you look to read about Ativan, it says > don't use alcohol. " > > Are you a British, Martin? You remind me of the style of generation > making of the British in Hong Kong. Thank you for the compliment, but no, I'm not British. So you can't explain why you didn't stop drinking when you were prescribed Ativan. I don't see how a can of beer in the afternoon in a hot summer day can affect Ativan taken at bed time at mid-night. > I don't see how a can of beer in the afternoon in a hot summer day can > affect Ativan taken at bed time at mid-night. We'll probably never know now. You have blamed your negative experience on the doctor. So do you think if I had done away with alcohol, I would have been able to quite Ativan without much difficulty? I know people who quit Ativan had a hard time sleeping but my effort to quit Ativan caused my T to cream out of my head. >So do you think if I had done away with alcohol, I would have been able >to quite Ativan without much difficulty? I know people who quit >Ativan had a hard time sleeping but my effort to quit Ativan caused my >T to cream out of my head. I don't know. I would be more suspicious of the way you discontinued Ativan by cutting the dosage in half. If you were addicted, then I think cutting it in half was probably too big a reduction. I might suspect that alcohol would enhance the addiction, but, again, I don't know. I'm not sure why Ativan was prescribed for you. Did your doctor say he was prescribing it to reduce anxiety? In any case, some people simply do not react well to certain medications. In my case, antidepressants just never work as advertised, so I never used them in the normal way. They did change my mood, but only by blunting my emotions, and the side effects were extremely distasteful. Nevertheless, this was enough. By paying attention to the changes that were happening, I saw that change was possible, and the side effects were so distasteful that I was able to find the motivation to get off my butt and get going again. Something similar happened in your use of Ativan. It did change your T. That is valuable information by itself. Also, reducing it too quickly changed your T, so now you know your T is strongly effected by changes in brain chemistry. My rule is: Never mix chemicals that cross the brain barrier unless directed to by a doctor, or unless I know what to expect and am willing to accept the results. That means I never drink alcohol when I am taking any medication that affects my brain. I think you are making a big deal of my consuming alcohol only lightly and once in a while at that time when i was taking Ativan. Ativan did almost *completely" silence my T. But the moment when I tried to just scrub the pill a little bit, my head went screaming. I would say Ativan created a great dependence in my brain chemistry. Later on when I quit Ativan, I went to a drug rehabitation hospital and applied herb solution to do it. I used to drink one bowl of herb tea before bedtime and scrub the ativan pill by say 1/4, and the following day I went back to the full pill, the third day i scrubbed the 1/4 again,and the 4th day went back to the full pill....After repeating this process, I stay on 3/4 of a pill for a week and started to scrub another 1/4...and then went back to 3/4 and then 1/2 and then 3/4 ...and then 1/2 and then stayed at 1/2 for another week before I scrubbed another 1/4 from the pill... Took me the whole month to quit. Also, i discovered hydrochlorithiazide was giving me hell. The day I stopped it was the day of liberation for me...Doctors did not know that. I had to go back and tell them... > I don't see how a can of beer in the afternoon in a hot summer day can > affect Ativan taken at bed time at mid-night. Ativan taken at midnight may well affect alcohol taken the next day. It does not appear to be attractive to take such a drug at all, see quote below. Kind regards Peter Larsen From http://www.drugs.com/ativan.html: What should I avoid while taking Ativan? Use caution when driving, operating machinery, or performing other hazardous activities. Ativan will cause drowsiness and may cause dizziness. If you experience drowsiness or dizziness, avoid these activities. Avoid alcohol while taking Ativan. Alcohol may increase drowsiness and dizziness caused by Ativan. Alcohol may also increase the risk of a seizure if Ativan is being taken for a seizure condition. Ativan may increase the effects of other drugs that cause drowsiness, including antidepressants, alcohol, antihistamines, sedatives (used to treat insomnia), pain relievers, anxiety medicines, seizure medicines, and muscle relaxants. Tell your doctor about all medicines that you are taking, and do not take any medicine without first talking to your doctor. Signature******************************************* * My site is at: http://www.muyiovatki.dk * ******************************************* Ativan was prescribed to me by my doctor as sleeping pills. I drank only occasionally while I was taking Ativan and it was no big deal. Peter wrote:"As you ask: yes, because I have occasionally taken it for more than 10 years ..." Have you experienced any 'brain bleeding' by taking gingko as claimed by the alarmists? Why are you so courageous in having taken gingko for more than 10 years? Who prescribed it to you, a doctor or a pharmacist? > Peter wrote:"As you ask: yes, because I have occasionally taken > it for more than 10 years ..." > Have you experienced any 'brain bleeding' by taking gingko > as claimed by the alarmists? No, but I have had bleeding after minor surgery that surprised the hospital by being very difficult to stop. So as for the substance matter of the warnings, yes Francis, I have experienced the issue. Sharons brain hemorrage (sp?) was btw. a consequence of anticoagulants given apparently without exact investigation of whether a previous stroke had been caused by a blocked or a bursted blood vesseel. > Why are you so courageous in having taken gingko for > more than 10 years? I stopped when I understood how the above had come to be, now there are warning inlays in the packages suggestion stopping taking it some three weeks prior to any scheduled surgery. > Who prescribed it to you, a doctor or a pharmacist? Hearsay and this newsgroup. In terms of tinnitus reduction the largest perceived effect was btw. from ground up gingko bark sold in a health shop, the packaga suggested three capsules a day, I made do with one. There may be more to the drug than the single most efficient component and it is my estimate that all dosage recommendations for it are made by sales people .... with this, as with any other, drug one should look for the smallest dosage that does the job, not for the largest "non-killing" dosage. But that is just my opinion. Kind regards Peter Larsen Signature******************************************* * My site is at: http://www.muyiovatki.dk * ******************************************* The problem with any medicine is the quantity people need. I think each patient should decide after observing their body reaction. That is to say, there is no such thing as a standard at all. I various between individuals. >The problem with any medicine is the quantity people need. I think >each patient should decide after observing their body reaction. That is >to say, there is no such thing as a standard at all. I various between >individuals. Most medicines are poisons. I don't know if gingko is a poison in the human body or not, but I think it probably is. And there are standard dosages for most medicines. These are computed based on laws of chemistry. The problem with deciding how much to take by observing your reaction after you take it is that you might be dead. The manufacturers have instructions for users. However, the users can still scale down the dosage in response to his own body reaction. > The manufacturers have instructions for users. However, the users can > still scale down the dosage in response to his own body reaction. You missed the point. On 5/25/06 12:14 AM, in article 71ma725c3jhtu602mfp1pmqmagdq8v22b4@4ax.com, >> The problem with any medicine is the quantity people need. I think >> each patient should decide after observing their body reaction. That is [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > chemistry. The problem with deciding how much to take by observing > your reaction after you take it is that you might be dead. Gingko if it is properly calibrated in itself may be good for you. Some doctors take it for "health". The problem is, is it properly calibrated? More important, few persons know enough about other medications including aspirin and salicylates, etc etc that combine with Gingko and can cause bleeding. I see this regularly in my practice - he is taking a prescribed drug plus Gingko and is having a nose bleed ( thank God its only a nose) because he doesn't tell me or the pharmacist that he is taking Gingko, since it is a natural product. Finally on the third day of the bleeding, his wife tell me about the Gingko, despite myself, the ER, the intern, the resident, etc all having asked him, "Are you taking anything else?". And its not the uneducated either. My patient is a college professor. Only because he uses the same pharmacist is he alive today. He went to another doctor, gave a complete thorough history, and then showed up at the pharmacy with an Rx that could have reacted with the medicine he was already on. My patients show up with 4 or 6 Rx. Thanks to the lawyers, the PDR lists the same 101 side effects for all the drugs. They do not list Gingko because no one researches it. Its worth your life to use the same pharmacist who knows you and what you are taking. So, if it is so hard to keep straight on commonly used, well researched drugs, how can the consumer keep straight on Gingko, where the possibility of drug interactions to cause central bleeding are almost endless? And the dosages vary significantly from leaf to root to stem? If it were a sure thing that Gingko did help Tinnitus, that's different. ON the other hand, it has great placebo effect. I wish medical science were as precise a science as physics or math. The problem with aspirin is the same as gingko. Too much of it can also do a lot of harm. And even taken at manufacturer's prescription or doctor's advice, things can still go wrong. I think when it comes to the final analysis, it is that with all the dangers looming around, BEING AN EDUCATED PATIENT is the best strategy. Gingko has been thoroughly observed in the part of the world where it was born, and its use has been well coordinated in quantities with other herbs. Unfortunately, in the commercial world, it is very difficult to sell a bunch of herbs leaves that have to be boiled in a pot made of clay to make a med. It is clumsy and it takes time. Thus clever merchants come along to extract whatever they could from a single herb and market it the way they market the synthetic drugs. But i do believe consumers, after trials and errors, make the best decision. Is the demand for gingko going up in the US? > I wish medical science were as precise a science as physics or math. > The problem with aspirin is the same as gingko. Too much of it can > also do a lot of harm. And even taken at manufacturer's prescription > or doctor's advice, things can still go wrong. But you have been implying there are no rules worth following, and don't listen to "modern" doctors, just do whatever you want. > I think when it comes to the final analysis, it is that with all the > dangers looming around, BEING AN EDUCATED PATIENT is the best strategy. At last we agree on something. > Gingko has been thoroughly observed in the part of the world where it > was born, and its use has been well coordinated in quantities with [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > > Is the demand for gingko going up in the US? Martine wrote:"But you have been implying there are no rules worth following, and don't listen to "modern" doctors, just do whatever you want. I did not imply but you think I implied. >Martine wrote:"But you have been implying there are no rules worth >following, and don't >listen to "modern" doctors, just do whatever you want. > >I did not imply but you think I implied. You're right. You didn't imply it. You stated it directly. You wrote: "The problem with any medicine is the quantity people need. I think each patient should decide after observing their body reaction. That is to say, there is no such thing as a standard at all. " It is what i said, there is no standard for all patients. But the manufacturers make an average and individual patients still have to make adjustment to this med. This is called common sense. For example, I could no longer buy the old ginkgo pill any more from 21 st Centruay and I am changing to a Canadian one. The manufacturer's prescription suggests 3 pills a day but i take only one. >It is what i said, there is no standard for all patients. But the >manufacturers make an average and individual patients still have to >make adjustment to this med. This is called common sense. For >example, I could no longer buy the old ginkgo pill any more from 21 st >Centruay and I am changing to a Canadian one. The manufacturer's >prescription suggests 3 pills a day but i take only one. That's not how chemistry works. Is there any scientific method by which the quantity of blood thinner med needed is measure? There must be. >Is there any scientific method by which the quantity of blood thinner >med needed is measure? There must be. Chemistry. So what is the problem with gingko here? Patients can go for a test after taking one or two pills for a week and have the blood composition tested. > So what is the problem with gingko here? Patients can go for a test > after taking one or two pills for a week and have the blood composition > tested. The problem is that gingko is "prescribed" or recommended without the appropriate warnings that should accompany it. It is "prescribed" or recommended as if it is safe, yet if it is taken with some quite common substances, it can be dangerous. what you have said could be true of a wide range of medicine. > what you have said could be true of a wide range of medicine. It *is* true of a wide range of medicines. That's why there are standards. >Peter wrote:"As you ask: yes, because I have occasionally taken it for >more than 10 [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] >by the alarmists? Why are you so courageous in having taken gingko for >more than 10 years? Who prescribed it to you, a doctor or a pharmacist? Pharmacists don't prescribe. Doctors prescribe. Peter wrote:"As you ask: yes, because I have occasionally taken it for more than 10 years ..." Have you experienced any 'brain bleeding' by taking gingko as claimed by the alarmists? Why are you so courageous in having taken gingko for more than 10 years? Who prescribed it to you, a doctor or a pharmacist? fyfpoon@gmail.com expressed precisely : > Could it have been due to gingko? > > Views? Out of interest, why has Chunky stopped offering you advice? Did you upset it? You ask me this question and whom should I ask this question from? |
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