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Medical Forum / Diseases and Disorders / Tinnitus / June 2006Hot Spring and Tinnitus
I visited my friendly ENT doctor in China today and talked about my T experiences and findings from various patients in this ng. A visit to the state hospital where he is working costs US$ONE and the waiting time was about 10 minutes. So it was worth the time spent. In our conversation, he brought up a very interesting story. A T patient of his was advised to go to a nearby hot spring as a way to have his new T treated. The reasoning behind his advice was that soaking in a hot spring helps the blood circulation of the body in a mineral water setting. According to the doctor, after a vacation in this hot spring, his T patient was CURED of T even up to this moment. I have no reason to believe my ENT doctor lied about something like that. And I have *personally* talked to another 2 persons whose T was *totally* CURED. My T is well treated but from time to time I still notice the low volume T sound. I am not going to stop here, of course, and there is no reason to. I recalled my own experience of going to the same hot spring about a couple of years ago upon my doctor's advice. There were 'silent' nights with the treatment but I attributed the silence to my medicine. I should have gone to that hot spring more often but that place is far away and hotels expensive. I will go there again in the coming winter. At any rate, once again it proves that the 'circulatory theory' works, at least for *some* people. Thus those of you who have exhausted the intelligence of your ENT doctors should try out this 'hot spring' treatment. In the process of soaking your body into hot water, it does not hurt to have a little bit of red wine or coffee or whatever you enjoy at the same time... Who says that the treatment of T has to be expensive and cannot be enjoyable? And who says there is no cure for tinnitus? There may not be a standard cure for all but there are cures for *some* !!! FP >At any rate, once again it proves that the 'circulatory theory' works, >at least for *some* people. It does not prove that. Suppose you have a theory that the earth is flat. Your friend sails his boat out to sea, beyond the horizon, and he doesn't come back. You say, "Once again, it proves the flat earth theory works." Well, at least there is a CORRELATIONAL relationship between T improvement and hot spring bath. Why not try it out as long as no IRREVERSIBLE consequences are expected. It may work for *you*! Do you need to have the results of 'controlled' studies before you try? >Well, at least there is a CORRELATIONAL relationship between T >improvement and hot spring bath. One patient going to a hot spring and finding relief from T is not a correlation. > Why not try it out as long as no >IRREVERSIBLE consequences are expected. It may work for *you*! Do you >need to have the results of 'controlled' studies before you try? I didn't say not to try it. I disputed your claim that it proves the circulation theory. It doesn't do that. Nor did I say not to try folk medicine. I said doctors shouldn't *prescribe* folk medicine that has not been proved effective. They should make clear, when they suggest trying a particular folk cure, that it has not been proved effective, if it has not been proved effective. Nor does it disprove the circulatory theory.. The effectiveness of folk medicine is proven through clinical experiences and the patients' demand for them in the market place. Like Tiger Bomb Oil in Hong Kong, even the British are buying it. They got introduced by their Chinese counterparts and they tried it and liked it. But then again, what is folk medicine? Is aspirin 'folk' medicine? >Nor does it disprove the circulatory theory.. Nobody said it disproved it. You said it proved it. The objection is to the language you are using to discuss these subjects. >The effectiveness of folk medicine is proven through clinical >experiences and the patients' demand for them in the market place. No, it isn't. That doesn't prove effectiveness. Effectiveness has a precise meaning. It means the medicine works in a certain percentage of cases. If a medicine is effective, it means it works in a higher percentage of cases than the percentage of successes when using a placebo for treating the same problem. >Like Tiger Bomb Oil in Hong Kong, even the British are buying it. They >got introduced by their Chinese counterparts and they tried it and >liked it. But then again, what is folk medicine? Is aspirin 'folk' >medicine? The fact that lots of people buy it may correlate with its effectiveness, but it doesn't prove effectiveness. Effectiveness refers to the expected percentage of successful treatments. Thus the whole thing goes back to telling the client to try it out for himself as long as no irreversible consequences are expected. A med may not work for 90% of the patients but may be one of the few things that work for the remaining 10%. Gingko may be one of the few med that this 10% of T patients need for their illness. >Thus the whole thing goes back to telling the client to try it out for >himself as long as no irreversible consequences are expected. A med >may not work for 90% of the patients but may be one of the few things >that work for the remaining 10%. Gingko may be one of the few med that >this 10% of T patients need for their illness. That doesn't mean a doctor should tell them to try it. There are a lot of people who are like you when it comes to doctors. They see the doctor as an authoritarian figure. That's not the kind of relationship to have with a doctor. If ginko works for 10% of people, then it is a waste of time or worse for 90%. What kind of doctor would prescribe something he knows doesn't work 90% of the time, unless he has some rational basis for thinking it will work for you? He should tell you ginko doesn't work 90% of the time, but it does appear to help in a few cases. A doctor should always listen to the description of symptoms from his patients. That is not authoritarian and this is what I have been insisting. I don't know the % of patients to whom gingko works. I was making a hypothetic statement. But gingko has other good properties even if it may not directly impact on t and the only way to find that out if gingko has any impact on your T is trying it for a week or so. > A doctor should always listen to the description of symptoms from his > patients. That is not authoritarian and this is what I have been > insisting. Then you are saying 15 doctors didn't listen to your symptoms? What is wrong with Chinese doctors? > I don't know the % of patients to whom gingko works. I was making a > hypothetic statement. But gingko has other good properties even if it > may not directly impact on t and the only way to find that out if > gingko has any impact on your T is trying it for a week or so. The only way? The doctor I read suggested it, said to use it for at least three months. Different strokes! I felt the impact the following day, while others take months. We are all different, Martin. > Different strokes! I felt the impact the following day, while others > take months. We are all different, Martin. But it didn't fix the problem. It changed it from whatever you called it to a "drum" sound. That's not fixing the problem. It was an big improvement. It was not a quick fix, if that is what you are looking for. A quick fix or near quick fix may be Ativan. I tried it and fortunately I was given every bit of help to get out of it. Ativan may have been shown to stop the noise in some controlled studies but this med is very addictive. A doctor should not recommend this med unless he knows how to get his clients out of this med in the future. > It was an big improvement. It was not a quick fix, if that is what you > are looking for. A quick fix or near quick fix may be Ativan. I tried > it and fortunately I was given every bit of help to get out of it. > Ativan may have been shown to stop the noise in some controlled studies > but this med is very addictive. A doctor should not recommend this med > unless he knows how to get his clients out of this med in the future. You get out of it by decreasing the dosage and frequency of use. Have you ever been on Ativan? I was ...and let me tell you how it felt when I was trying to get out. Just a little bit scratch on the pill, perhaps by 1/6, left my head screaming to hell! > Have you ever been on Ativan? I was ...and let me tell you how it felt > when I was trying to get out. > > Just a little bit scratch on the pill, perhaps by 1/6, left my head > screaming to hell! But the effects are reversible, so it qualifies by your criteria. Some people report good results, and the negative effects are reversible. So a doctor should prescribe it to anyone with T, if they haven't already tried it. That's by your criteria for what doctors should prescribe. It was reversible in my case because I got help from a Chinese medical professor while I was spending a holiday in the city of Fuchow. That medical college is known for its herbal approach to rehabilitate drug addicts. I was given herb tea to drink before bed time while my Ativan pill was chipped away slowly 'bit by bit'. It took me almost 3 months before I finally got rid of it. I am not sure if the Ativan addicts elsewhere are that lucky. I don't know how the patients in the other parts of the world get rid of Ativan, or if they ever get rid of it at all. I wish the doctors in the west who prescribe Ativan to patients should know how to reverse the process when needed. If they don't, the consequences are IRREVERSIBLE. There was no question that Ativan brought on a momentary silence but I think betahistine should have been used. Betahistine softens the t sound and makes you sleepy. This is why I think T patient should take gingko in the morning and betahistine before bed time, drink a lot of coffee in daytime to prevent napping, and do a lot of exercises before bed time to get one extremely exhausted... Now i want to go back to that doctor in Hong Kong who prescribed me Ativan and beat a crap of him. It obviously was good business for him because a short prescription earned him US%50. For your information, in China only the mental hospitals are allowed to prescribe Ativan. Perhaps in the US or Norway they hand out Ativan like candies to kids. > It was reversible in my case because I got help from a Chinese medical > professor while I was spending a holiday in the city of Fuchow. No, the effects are reversible by the standard way of discontinuing use of any antidepressant or antianxiety medication. Any doctor who prescribes ativan will know how to do it. >That > medical college is known for its herbal approach to rehabilitate drug [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > should know how to reverse the process when needed. If they don't, the > consequences are IRREVERSIBLE. All doctors who prescribe know how to get you off it. The process takes weeks or months. Did you stop taking it suddenly? You can't do that. > There was no question that Ativan brought on a momentary silence but I > think betahistine should have been used. Then why didn't you use that instead? > Betahistine softens the t > sound and makes you sleepy. This is why I think T patient should take [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > prescribe Ativan. Perhaps in the US or Norway they hand out Ativan > like candies to kids. Why are you saying that? It sounds like one of your string of stable pony doctors didn't know his a.s from third base. You went to a quack. Martin wrote:"Any doctor who prescribes ativan will know how to do it. " Any doctor? Any? Any? All over the world? The guy that prescribed me Ativan told me to cut it half by half. As I said, even a chip of 1/6 left my head screaming... Martin wrote:"Then why didn't you use that instead? " This med named betahistine was prescribed by 'another' doctor after the one that gave me Ativan. Martin wrote:"You went to a quack. " No, that guy that prescribed me Ativan graduated from some flying medical schools in British Commonwealth, while the other doctors also graduated from 'famous' schools too. Finally it was this non-medical student _ME_who treated me through trials and errors and did very well. This is why I can treat other T patients and in many cases better their ENT doctors. > Martin wrote:"Any doctor who prescribes ativan will know how to do it. > " > > Any doctor? Any? Any? All over the world? The guy that prescribed me > Ativan told me to cut it half by half. As I said, even a chip of 1/6 > left my head screaming... Yes, any doctor who is allowed to prescribe ativan should know how to discontinue it. Even I know how to do it, and I'm not a doctor. How is it that you did not know? You knew it was addictive before you started taking it, yes? He did tell you it was addictive? So if you knew it was addictive, you knew you would have to reduce your dosage gradually to get off it. > Martin wrote:"Then why didn't you use that instead? " > > This med named betahistine was prescribed by 'another' doctor after the > one that gave me Ativan. But why didn't you do this research yourself before you went to the doctor? You went to 15 doctors. > Martin wrote:"You went to a quack. " > [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > This is why I can treat other T patients and in many cases better > their ENT doctors. You went to a quack. It sounds like you went to doctors expecting to do what they told you without question. That's what I meant when I said your view of doctors is authoritarian. Martin wrote:"But why didn't you do this research yourself before you went to the doctor?" Yes, sometimes I wonder why patients should not be fully conscious in an operation so that they can direct doctors where to cut ! > Martin wrote:"But why didn't you do this research yourself before you > went to the > doctor?" > > Yes, sometimes I wonder why patients should not be fully conscious in > an operation so that they can direct doctors where to cut ! So you decided to do whatever the doctor said to do without question. whatever??? you are making sweeping generalization again. > whatever??? you are making sweeping generalization again. You're the one who said there are no standards. >The reasoning behind his advice was that >soaking in a hot spring helps the blood circulation of the body in a >mineral water setting. It would also relax the muscles. Elly. >I visited my friendly ENT doctor in China today and talked about my T >experiences and findings from various patients in this ng. A visit to [quoted text clipped - 31 lines] > >FP Elly Byrne ---------- The Ultimate Supertip from Harvey Segal http://tinyurl.com/bg7h2 It was a reported 'cure' according to my ENT doctor. Perhaps new T is much easier to treat than old ones as our brain does not store up something that is in existence for only a short time. Hi, I don't have a handy hot spring nearby, but I have a membership to a pool that has a hot tub and sauna. Would this provide the same effect? >I visited my friendly ENT doctor in China today and talked about my T > experiences and findings from various patients in this ng. A visit to [quoted text clipped - 31 lines] > > FP |
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