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Medical Forum / Diseases and Disorders / Tinnitus / April 2006TRT effective? Ginkgo effective?
I have looked in the archives of this group to try to determine whether Tinnitus Retraining Therapy and/or Ginkgo can be effective. All I found was nasty charges and countercharges from people with a money interest in tinnitus. My question is: Has anyone in this group been helped by TRT and/or Ginkgo, or do you know of anyone who has? If not, can you please summerize if and why you think it may be a scam. Please do not respond if you benefit financially in ANY WAY from tinnitus. Please respond directly to my email address. Thank you. > I have looked in the archives of this group to try to determine whether > Tinnitus Retraining Therapy and/or Ginkgo can be effective. All I found [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > if you benefit financially in ANY WAY from tinnitus. Please respond > directly to my email address. Thank you. Neither is a scam, and yes, folks with long term, unhabituated T did reporrt having been helped by TRT. A brit named Alan Cocks did, I think, you might try googling his report. I know of one person who said Ginkgo helped her T, I don't recall other such reports. The biggest prob with Ginkgo is getting a standardized dose and making sure you're not mixing it with other antithrombotic drugs or supplements (blood thinners). One brand that's been mentioned here as being reliably potent was Ginkgold, I believe, try googling it. Other folks have reported help from self hypnosis, white noise machines, other masking sounds, antidepressants, Xanax, and even habitutation. Google up "habituation for dummies" by Bill Gerrells on this group for a great DIY guide. HTH, Susan On 4/2/06 2:13 PM, in article 1144016029.196730.66030@v46g2000cwv.googlegroups.com, "jack94960@yahoo.com" > I have looked in the archives of this group to try to determine whether > Tinnitus Retraining Therapy and/or Ginkgo can be effective. All I found [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > if you benefit financially in ANY WAY from tinnitus. Please respond > directly to my email address. Thank you. First of all, I do profit from those who suffer from Tinnitus. They pay for my private jet, my Villa in Italy, my penthouse in Vegas and my private south sea island. Nevertheless, here goes. the reason it is so difficult to objectify various treatments is that Tinnitus is subjective. With a broken finger, you can tell what works best. You can even create scientific studies to evaluate all kinds of therapy and with photographs and X rays tell what works. No such luck with Tinnitus. No way to measure or objectify. Besides, today we know that T can be on various levels including ear, nerve, various brain locations. But even with MRI and Brain Mapping we still can't say where each one is. So what should a person do? Of course, start with the one that works for ALL subjective symptoms - change your breathing to in four and out six. Reduce the anxiety factor. If music helps as a distraction, keep music with you at all times. Use whatever reduces the anxiety reinforcement. Since you don't want to hear from anyone who profits from the suffering of Tinnitus patients, I am unable to tell you that these and other suggestions are at www.ent-consult.com, otherwise I would. Murray Grossan, M.D. Murray wrote:"They pay for my private jet, my Villa in Italy, my penthouse in Vegas and my private south sea island. " Is that all? Your life would be considered full and rich if what you are having in terms of "my private jet, my Villa in Italy, my penthouse in Vegas and my private south sea island" were to be accompanied by young and pretty looking leggies. But if all these economic goodies were shared among old couple, well, there would be something unfulfiling! The use of gingko transformed my tinnitus from ringing at the centre of my head into ringing on ear drums. That was a startling improvement. It may not do anything for you. >I have looked in the archives of this group to try to determine whether > Tinnitus Retraining Therapy and/or Ginkgo can be effective. All I found [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > if you benefit financially in ANY WAY from tinnitus. Please respond > directly to my email address. Thank you. >The answer to your questions are-NO. Patrick On 4/4/06 4:40 AM, in article e0tlum$jka@dispatch.concentric.net, "Patrick Hennessey" <pmhennessey@hydromer.com> wrote: >> I have looked in the archives of this group to try to determine whether >> Tinnitus Retraining Therapy and/or Ginkgo can be effective. All I found [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > > Patrick TRT is an accepted form of tinnitus therapy. It treats on several levels A. by acceting a soft sound , the limbic systme decides that tinnitus is not a BAD B Various levels of personal support are given C It uses the patient's taking charge as a theraputic measure D It is usually drug free E The persons doing the TRT have been trained and are qualified to do this On the neg side it is time consuming and exensive and rarely covered by insurance. Few ENT specialists are trained in TRT It is more a therapy of the symptoms rather than a cure of the cause. For example you could have a cause of hypertension making the T and the TRT would reduce your symptoms significantly. Will it work for you ? Impossible to say without knowing full details. It certainly won't work for 100%. Most TRT practitioners are pretty good at patient selection. Are you in Portland Oregon? Murray Grossan, M.D. Www.EarAid.info "jack94960@yahoo.com" <jack94960@yahoo.com> wrote in part: >I have looked in the archives of this group to try to determine whether >Tinnitus Retraining Therapy and/or Ginkgo can be effective. All I found [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] >if you benefit financially in ANY WAY from tinnitus. Please respond >directly to my email address. Thank you. People here over the years have been helped by TRT, sometimes markedly. Others reported no benefit. I am unaware of a credible report of ginkgo success. One would expect some, since tinnitus sometimes fades away and placebo effects are not zero. I think ginkgo may be a scam. It was shown to be no more effective than placebo in a very large randomized controlled trial in the UK some years back, yet is still pushed. Frequently those pushing it stand to gain from its sale. There seems to be no logic for its claimed effect.  SignatureJim Chinnis / Warrenton, Virginia, USA Want to discuss Meniere's? See http://groups.yahoo.com/group/MenieresDG JIm wrote:"I am unaware of a credible report of ginkgo success" I reported to this group that the use of ginkgo transformed by brain ring into drum ring, but you don't call that credible. Should I go by how I as a patient feel or the result of a large controlled study? Jim continued to write:"There seems to be no logic for its claimed effect" Of course there is. Gingko improves the blood circulation of the brain, which helps those t patients whose cause may have come from the nerve. In the final analysis, I think each patient should try it under the supervision of the knowledgeable. It it does not work, they can always drop it. > JIm wrote:"I am unaware of a credible report of ginkgo success" > > I reported to this group that the use of ginkgo transformed by brain > ring into drum ring, but you don't call that credible. Should I go by > how I as a patient feel or the result of a large controlled study? You should go by the study unless you can prove it is the ginko that changed your feelings. Is clinical experience as important as any 'controlled' study? Gingko was prescribed to me by a doctor who graduated from Cambridge. Is he good enough to give advice. Talking about studies, can you cite me a survey done on the use of gingko that shows *all* studies done point to the uselessness of gingko in treating tinnitus? >Is clinical experience as important as any 'controlled' study? Gingko >was prescribed to me by a doctor who graduated from Cambridge. Is he >good enough to give advice. I don't think that is relevant to the question. You have a choice between results of a double blind scientific study, or you have your anecdotal experience. Your own experience is valid if you can unambiguously link the ginko to your improvement. Even if your improvement is due to placebo effect, it doesn't matter. But if you took ginko *and* substance X, then you can't say it was the ginko that helped you. It might have been substance X. Or it might have been your new office chair, or your new mattress, or your daily swimming workout. >Talking about studies, can you cite me a survey done on the use of >gingko that shows *all* studies done point to the uselessness of gingko >in treating tinnitus? Maybe your tinnitus has improved because you have your head up your a.s. Martin wrote:"Maybe your tinnitus has improved because you have your head up your a.s". Martin, when you are intellectually capable of providing a reply to a question, you don't necessarily have to resort to insults or verbal expression of an unscientific kind. That you have done that has illustrated the level of knowledge you have regarding what is being scientific. The so-called 'controlled' study is one kind of study that has limitations like any other kinds of study. If you treated it like God, you would subscribe to the absence of limitations related to 'controlled' study. Go into Google or Yahoo, you will also find some 'controlled' studies done that have demonstrated gingko has the effect. That you have refused to cite a survey is an indication of your admission that the worshipped controlled study method carries with it limitations. Now, this time, hopefully your intellectual improvement has brought back some sneses to you. OK? >Martin wrote:"Maybe your tinnitus has improved because you have your >head up your a.s". > >Martin, when you are intellectually capable of providing a reply to a >question, you don't necessarily have to resort to insults or verbal >expression of an unscientific kind. Sorry, but my original reply to your orignal question was correct and not meant as an insult. Your original question: "Should I go by how I as a patient feel or the result of a large controlled study?" My original reply: "You should go by the study unless you can prove it is the ginko that changed your feelings." Your susequent reply to my answer was clearly meant as an insult, and you are obviously an a.shole. >That you have done that has >illustrated the level of knowledge you have regarding what is being >scientific. The so-called 'controlled' study is one kind of study that >has limitations like any other kinds of study. If you treated it like >God, you would subscribe to the absence of limitations related to >'controlled' study. Stop introducing crap that wasn't there. You asked a question, I answered it. Nobody said anything about treating a study like God. You gave a choice between a "large controlled study" and your subjective feeling not verified by any science at all. In your example, you don't know whether your improved feeling is due to the ginko. You don't know. It could be caused by something else. >Now, this time, hopefully your intellectual improvement has brought >back some sneses to you. OK? Blow it out your a.s. Martin, go f.ck yourself! That is what you get when you bring others down to *your* level! > Martin, go f.ck yourself! That is what you get when you bring others > down to *your* level! You should know. I descended to yours. Then we are equal ... > Then we are equal ... Only in your alleged mind. Not in yours? I think you can't help it. > Not in yours? I think you can't help it. You're trolling now, fyf. We're not equal. I'm a lot smarter. If you had been a lot smarter, you would not have wasted your precious time wrestling with a troll! > If you had been a lot smarter, you would not have wasted your precious > time wrestling with a troll! It's what I do for entertainment.
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