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Medical Forum / Diseases and Disorders / Tinnitus / April 2006skin disease causing tinnitus
Hi, I have been fighting a ,thus far, unspecifically diagnosed skin disease or aliment, for lack of proper medical terms, for over 5 years. My tinnitus is directly linked to this disease, because as time went by, the more disease tissue I killed ( for lack of a better medical term), the less intense my tinnitus has become. My skin disease was biopsied as actinic keratosis but that result is highly questionable because it does not have the typical characteristics of AK. I had used Efudex prescription cream along with Solaraze ,to a lesser extent, over the time period. The disease affected the top and sides of my scalp, behind the ears, the outter ears, my forehead, face, throat, chest, and interestingly, the tissue on my scrotum is/was thickened, which I believe may be related to the overall skin disease. The intensity of my tinnitus was right off the charts and still is very bothersome at times but much less than 5 years ago. I have been to 5 dermatologist, 2 ENT's, an allegist, a lupus doctor and several others. I am at a loss to verify what I have. I have been put in a position of trying to research the possibilites on my own, and been branded a nutcase, by some of the doctors who have thus far failed to explain what I have. A psychiatist has recorded in writing that the incesscent ringing in my ears is a hallucination, along with a number of other false derogatory remarks, I refer you to http://www.cchr.org I am still speculating what I have. During the 'killing process" some of the skin areas had what I will call a biting sensation, as if some sort of parasite was in the skin, doing the damage. I have speculated on what that could be also. When I mentioned the possibilty of some sort of parasitic infection, I got branded a nutcase again, I refer you to http://www.skinparasites.com I had photo's posted of the progression of killing the skin disease/infection, or whatever it is, but I removed them because they looked pretty awful. During the killing process some of the areas itched intensely. I would like to know if it is feasible to record the sound of the ringing and where I can have that done. I could send an amplified version for the psychiatrist to listen to on his walkman for about 4 or 5 years. And then tell him its all an hallucination. And let him wear the walkman for another 4 or 5 years along with some anti-hallucination medication, to see if it controls the problem. I know everybody is desperately looking for answers, including myself, and if any one has any input or possible similar experiences please chime in Cheers, Rich Hi Rich, Your tinnitus is most definitely not an hallucination. Ditch the psychiatrist. He is not going to be convinced no matter what you say or do. You are quite right in seeking and researching your skin condition. If people call you a nutcase - so be it. You know you're not. Yes, it is possible to record the sound of your ringing. But probably not worth the effort as far as the psychiatrist is concerned. Elly's Tinnitus Resources http://eebee.net/ >Hi, > I have been fighting a ,thus far, unspecifically diagnosed skin [quoted text clipped - 40 lines] >Cheers, >Rich Dear Elly, I used to suffer from skin problems for years until i ran into a farmer in China who told me to apply lemon and sulpher as a treatment to my skin. Itching of skin in my case was explained to me by this farmers as an imbalance between In and Yan. And he recommended me to use a lemon soap to balance against the excessive amount of 'alcoline' of the skin by the accidic content of this soup. The skin problem was gone! Hi Rich, Some ideas. Try a cream called aquacare - it has a urea content. A friend tried it years ago when doctors stuff was doimng no good whatever. http://www.drugdigest.org/DD/DVH/Uses/0,3915,8084%7CAquacare,00.html http://www.eczema-psoriasis.com/ This is on out TV screen constantly. Go and have a look. Then you could also try an elimination diet. Never mind what the doctors say. Also have a look here: http://www.doveclinic.com/site/default.htm Regards, Elly. >Hi, > I have been fighting a ,thus far, unspecifically diagnosed skin [quoted text clipped - 40 lines] >Cheers, >Rich Elly Byrne ---------- The Ultimate Supertip from Harvey Segal http://tinyurl.com/bg7h2 > I have been fighting a ,thus far, unspecifically diagnosed skin > disease or aliment, for lack of proper medical terms, for over 5 years. > My tinnitus is directly linked to this disease, because as time went I don't think what I have is as severe as what you're experiencing, but for about the last year and a half I've had: * skin rashes and itching (not in any particular embarassing areas, legs, arms, chest, neck, scalp, it migrates). It's not nearly as bad as it was a year ago (probably because I've gotten very disciplined in putting on whatever tubes of goop I've given by a dermatologist, and not scratching) but still annoying. * Fairly frequent tinnitus. It's not THAT bad....if I just sit on a sofa watching TV or reading a book, I can handle it. But I find it very difficult to concentrate on things for more than a few hours at a time, which is disruptive to my work habits. I've been to a general physician, dermatologist (for the itching and rashes), and ENT (for the tinnitus). He did multiple tests that couldn't find any cause of the tinnitus, and then, sent me to get a brain MRI, which at first seemed ominous due to an alarmist radiologist report, but a visit to a neurologist seemed to negate that, he felt there was nothing abnormal on the MRI. So I find myself in an annoying situation, if I mention the skin problems to an ENT, he doesn't want to hear it, and if I mention the tinnitus to the dermatologist, she looks at me like I'm a crazy person. Yet I'm fairly convinced these two things are connected. The Ear Nose Throat doctor wants me to go for an expensive sleep study test, which I don't think is justified. I'm frustrated by, if I go to a general physican, they seem to shuffle me off to specialists, but the specialists don't seem to be looking towards the Big Picture. And when i start to describe all this to a doctor (or friends), I start sounding like a crazy person myself. Where's House, M.D. when you need him? :) >So I find myself in an annoying situation, if I mention the skin problems to an ENT, > he doesn't want to hear it, and if I mention the tinnitus to the dermatologist, >she looks at me like I'm a crazy person. That is about par for the course. Have you considered going on an elimination diet? Tinnitus sometimes disappears when an allergy is found. And allergy tests are not always conclusive. And skin problems also MAY disappear when the diet removes allergens. Read up on it. And consider giving it a go. Elly's Tinnitus Resources http://eebee.net/ >> I have been fighting a ,thus far, unspecifically diagnosed skin >> disease or aliment, for lack of proper medical terms, for over 5 years. [quoted text clipped - 37 lines] > >Where's House, M.D. when you need him? :) > >So I find myself in an annoying situation, if I mention the skin problems to an ENT, > > he doesn't want to hear it, and if I mention the tinnitus to the dermatologist, > >she looks at me like I'm a crazy person. > > That is about par for the course. Have either of you considered the possibilty that the two conditions are merely concurrent with no relationship or association between the two? There doesn't have to be a "cause and effect" relationship. I can't blame the doctors the op has seen to be unable to establish the link between a derm problem and tinnitus. Because, there likely isn't one. I had a patient come to me recently for a hordeola (a "stye") on her lower right lid. I gave her the appropriate treatment and she came back a few days later complaining of a "floater" inside the same eye. She was convinced that the stye caused the floater where,in reality, the two were completely unrelated events. frank And how does that help the situation? Elly. >> >So I find myself in an annoying situation, if I mention the skin problems to an ENT, >> > he doesn't want to hear it, and if I mention the tinnitus to the dermatologist, [quoted text clipped - 16 lines] > >frank Elly Byrne ---------- The Ultimate Supertip from Harvey Segal http://tinyurl.com/bg7h2 > Have either of you considered the possibilty that the two conditions > are merely concurrent with no relationship or association between > the two? There doesn't have to be a "cause and effect" relationship. > I can't blame the doctors the op has seen to be unable to > establish the link between a derm problem and tinnitus. Because, > there likely isn't one. Or they may be intimately related, as they are in tick borne diseases. It requires a good medical evaluation, of the kind that so rarely exists. Susan > x-no-archive: yes > [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > > Susan I don't mean the following as patronizing but I find it interesting of the biases involved in people. Elly believes most tinnitus is caused by muscular stress and tension because it worked for her. You have a bias towards tinnitus with tick borne disease because of your son. The chance of the op's dermatitis caused by a tick borne disease is pretty remote and even more remote that it the cause of her tinnitus. A good dermatologist should be able to diagnose her skin condition. I'm merely suggesting that other causes be looked at for her tinnitus. I find it more probable that another etiology is the cause of her tinnitus. frank > I don't mean the following as patronizing but I find it interesting > of the biases involved in people. Elly believes most tinnitus is caused > by muscular stress and tension because it worked for her. You > have a bias towards tinnitus with tick borne disease because of your > son. I have had TBD caused T and HA for over a decade, as do most late TBD patients. I don't have a bias, I have an awareness of the ubiquity of TBDs, and the frequency with which they involves tinnitus and hyperacusis. I don't believe most T is caused by TBDs, but I do believe that where no clear cause is found, thorough medical evaluation is in order; do you disagree? Finding a "good" doc, who knows enough and will make the effort is very tricky, however. Clinical acumen is critical, since serology isn't reliable in the case of TBDs, as Johns Hopkins U. recently reaffirmed by evaluating various tests. > The chance of the op's dermatitis caused by a tick borne disease is > pretty remote and even more remote that it the cause of her > tinnitus. A good dermatologist should be able to diagnose her > skin condition. Actually, you're neither trained nor knowledgable enough to know how frequent TBD rashes are, what they actually look like, nor are most dermatologists, since the information has not been made public since the vaccine trials found myriad rashes that cultured positive; least common was the bullseye. TBDs are ubiquitous in all 48 states, and the previous geographic boundaries for lone star ticks are blown, as are previous geographic boundaries once believed true for babesiosis. Then there are the ehrlichiae, only recently discovered to cause disease in humans, bartonella henselae, RMSF... Most folks go outdoors, have lawns, gardens, visit parks, beaches, have pets that go outside, feed birds or squirrels in their yards. I raised a common exposure as a possibility, not a certainty. Folks who are sick and suffering need information that may be helpful. > I'm merely suggesting that other causes be looked at for her > tinnitus. So was I. I'm at *least* as qualified as you are to discuss relevent possibilities. I find it more probable that another etiology is the > cause of her tinnitus. But that's just a personal bias, not based upon any in depth awareness of TBD prevalence nor pathology. Susan > x-no-archive: yes > [quoted text clipped - 30 lines] > > TBDs are ubiquitous in all 48 Lower, contiguous 48. Sheesh. > I don't have a bias, I have an awareness of the ubiquity of TBDs, and > the frequency with which they involves tinnitus and hyperacusis. I > don't believe most T is caused by TBDs, but I do believe that where no > clear cause is found, thorough medical evaluation is in order; do you > disagree? Sorry, I don't understand your question. Of course, a thorough general medical work-up is essential for both the skin problem as well the tinnitus but, even then, a diagnosis of the causes (especially for the "T") is not always guaranteed. > Actually, you're neither trained nor knowledgable enough to know how > frequent TBD rashes are, what they actually look like, nor are most > dermatologists, since the information has not been made public since the > vaccine trials found myriad rashes that cultured positive; least common > was the bullseye. I never stated I was an expert in derm although I have much experience in diagnosing lid/eye lesions such as papillomas, verucca, bcc (basal cell carcinoma) and so on. TBD rashes are just a fraction of all the skin problems that a dermatologists sees on a daily basis. > I raised a common exposure as a possibility, not a certainty. Folks who > are sick and suffering need information that may be helpful. And likewise, I just mentioned that the two conditions may not be connected and that the op should be looking at other possibilities of the cause of her tinnitus. Can I ask you a question? Was your tinnitus "cured" when your TBD was diagnosed and treated? No ulterior motive to the question. Sometimes I wonder if even getting to the cause of one's tinnitus is even important because all the treatment options don't seem to be diagnostic specific. > But that's just a personal bias, not based upon any in depth awareness > of TBD prevalence nor pathology. Sorry you took offense. I still re-iterate that the incidence rate of TBD rashes is dwarfed in derm by other skin conditions, diseases and even other insect vector diseases (malaria for instance). Does that mean to "blow off" an unexplained skin rash? Of course not. But I don't jump to conclusions and especially to reach the conclusion that a skin rash caused the op's tinnitus. I seem to recall that the epid incident rate of Lyme disease is about 6-8 per 100,000. Maybe I heard that figure incorrectly but I don't think it's that far off. frank > Sorry, I don't understand your question. Of course, a thorough > general medical work-up is essential for both the skin problem > as well the tinnitus but, even then, a diagnosis > of the causes (especially for the "T") is not always guaranteed. Then you did understand my question. Obviously diagnosis is not guaranteed, especially for infections. I'm of the opinion that once diagnostics have been exhausted and failed, that antimicrobial empiric trials, either topical or systemic or both, may be useful and offer some relief. This can be done with minimal risk. > I never stated I was an expert in derm although I have much experience > in diagnosing lid/eye lesions such as papillomas, verucca, bcc > (basal cell carcinoma) and so on. TBD rashes are just a fraction > of all the skin problems that a dermatologists sees on a daily basis. And they rarely recognize them when they do see them. And a standard biopsy won't reveal them, nor will a standard culture at a non-reference lab. I'm guessing that whatever you know about skin is less than you know about TBDs and TBD testing and/or diagnoses. >>I raised a common exposure as a possibility, not a certainty. Folks who >>are sick and suffering need information that may be helpful. > > And likewise, I just mentioned that the two conditions may not be > connected and that the op should be looking at other possibilities of > the cause of her tinnitus. I thought you made a stronger statement dismissing the likelihood, as if perhaps you had more information than the rest of us, or more knowledge. > Can I ask you a question? Was your tinnitus "cured" when your > TBD was diagnosed and treated? Actually, it flared horribly, from an intermittent and tolerable hiss to a jet engine roar, that's what brought me here. Then it nearly disappeared again the longer I took the 400mg per day of doxycycline. What I had was a reaction to endotoxins as the pathogens died off. It remained constant but very soft, except when I ate a lot of salicylate. When I began low carbing, it all but disappeared. Salicylates can make it a noticable hiss for a couple of hours, but not disturbingly so. My child's T and HA were cured immediately, literally overnight by oral antibiotics, never to return years later. >No ulterior motive to the question. I wasn't worried. > Sometimes I wonder if even getting to the cause of one's tinnitus > is even important because all the treatment options don't > seem to be diagnostic specific. In my case it was important because I was severely debilitated and *needed* that doxy. Also, I was so ill already, the jet turbine in my head was really the last straw. Another thing that concerns me is that for folks who may have an infectious cause, the longer it goes undetected and/or untreated, the more chance they may end up with even more disabling problems such as my own. It can be prevented with less than $100 worth of doxy in some cases, so I think that's worth a shot. If the cause is infection, or thyroid, or TMJ, etc... the treatment can be very specific. If you're saying that at some point, when all has been exhausted, you just have to find the right form of relief, yeah, that's true, it doesn't matter how you got it. I'd just like folks to be more informed than the typical physician is about certain ubiquitous causes. > Sorry you took offense. I still re-iterate that the incidence rate of > TBD > rashes is dwarfed in derm by other skin conditions, diseases and > even other insect vector diseases (malaria for instance). If you knew how ignorant medical practitioners are about TBDs and their rashes, you'd know how absurd that statement is. I had arms covered with evanescent EMs during a decade in which I had a swollen knee, crippling arthritis, weird neuro sx and fatigue, and never got diagnosed, here in the most endemic area in the country. Docs and nurses, including derms at academic medical centers would look at them and actually say, "oh, look, it's like a target with a dot in the middle!" or "hmm, wonder if it's cellulitis" or "looks like some kind of local infection." I had eraser sized bullseyes all over my forearms for years that went undiagnosed, though apparently caused a lot of puzzlement. > Does that > mean to "blow off" an unexplained skin rash? Of course not. But > I don't jump to conclusions and especially to reach the conclusion > that a skin rash caused the op's tinnitus. If you re-read what I posted, I didn't jump to a conclusion, I recommended one possible avenue of investigation. I don't play doctor on the internet, but I do try to prevent suffering of the type my family and I have endured. > I seem to recall that the epid incident rate of Lyme disease is about > 6-8 per 100,000. Maybe I heard that figure incorrectly but I don't > think it's that far off. Like I said, you don't know jack about TBDs or their incidence. In parts of the country where docs are told not to suspect it, they don't diagnose it. Here in NY, even with my EMs and knee, and FUO for a year it didn't get diagnosed! I don't even know a family on Long Island who hasn't experienced Lyme disease at least once. It's extraordinarily rare for Lyme to be reported, even when it is diagnosed, and then it's only cases meeting surveillance criteria; Lyme is strictly a clinical diagnosis. There is no reliable diagnostic test. Third, there are at least 6-11 infections a tick may pass along that we don't have tests to reliably find. And the rash/T sufferer may have another infection, not tick borne. When all else hasn't helped, antimicrobials may be worth a shot. In my case, and my child's, tinnitus was either cured or abated with antibiotics. Susan > x-no-archive: yes > [quoted text clipped - 18 lines] > lab. I'm guessing that whatever you know about skin is less than you > know about TBDs and TBD testing and/or diagnoses. MORE THAN, not LESS. Sheesh, bugs ate my brain. Susan >>> I raised a common exposure as a possibility, not a certainty. Folks who >>> are sick and suffering need information that may be helpful. [quoted text clipped - 92 lines] > > Susan I have a question. You mentioned taking 400 mg of Doxycycline / day. Was that a correct number? Seems kind of high, but is that for Lyme's ? > I have a question. You mentioned taking 400 mg of Doxycycline / day. Was > that a correct number? Seems kind of high, but is that for Lyme's ? Yep. 200 mg per day didn't do much, other than take a little edge off my dizziness. 300-600 per day is more effective for Lyme (not Lyme's). The die off reaction was intense for weeks when I started on 400; painful arthritis in joints that hadn't bothered me since my crippling arhtritic bout in 1983, the tinnitus uproar that brought me here in a panic, stabbing stomach pains that ended with my no longer needing an H2 blocker twice per day every day. Then improvement. I still take 200 mg twice per day at times, then taper down to 200. I try to take breaks, but severe neuro symptoms always come back. Susan >Elly believes most tinnitus is caused >by muscular stress and tension because it worked for her. Not just because it worked for me although it took me years before I understood and accepted it. But because a clinic in Sweden strongly uses that as part of the treatment - successfully. Did you notice that the skin disease has been treated for the past FIVE years - in isolation - without success? Did you notice that the tinnitus has also been treated without success? Do you know that sometimes skin disease is caused by allergies? Are you aware that tinnitus sometimes (not always) is caused by an allergy? The allergy connection has so far not been tried. It has not even been considered by the patient, who has not done any research in this area either. I know people just expect a doctor to fix everything. But there are many areas where the medical fraternity simply falls down. And when they run out of options the problem is written of as psychosomatic. And when the patient accidentally finds something useful, it is written off as a placebo. Did I ever ask you what kind of doctor you actually are? Elly's Tinnitus Resources http://eebee.net/ >> x-no-archive: yes >> [quoted text clipped - 27 lines] > >frank > Did you notice that the skin disease has been treated for the past > FIVE years - in isolation - without success? > Did you notice that the tinnitus has also been treated without > success? I'm not sure which post you're referring to but I was referring to this one: ""I don't think what I have is as severe as what you're experiencing, but for about the last year and a half I've had: * skin rashes and itching (not in any particular embarassing areas, legs, arms, chest, neck, scalp, it migrates). It's not nearly as bad as it was a year ago (probably because I've gotten very disciplined in putting on whatever tubes of goop I've given by a dermatologist, and not scratching) but still annoying. * Fairly frequent tinnitus. It's not THAT bad....if I just sit on a sofa watching TV or reading a book, I can handle it. But I find it very difficult to concentrate on things for more than a few hours at a time, which is disruptive to my work habits."" > Do you know that sometimes skin disease is caused by allergies? > Are you aware that tinnitus sometimes (not always) is caused by an [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > considered by the patient, who has not done any research in this area > either. Elly, I see atopic dermatitis/allergic conjunctivitis and other types of allergic reactions almost everyday. My contention was that the op's skin problem and the tinnitus may not be related- I wasn't even guessing what her skin problem was. > I know people just expect a doctor to fix everything. But there are > many areas where the medical fraternity simply falls down. And when > they run out of options the problem is written of as psychosomatic. > And when the patient accidentally finds something useful, it is > written off as a placebo. Not true. There are many symptoms/problems that patients have that defy a strong diagnosis or effective treatment plan- it's put down as unk (unknown) or idiopathic. "Falling down" implies incompetent care- I've seen many patient who have received exemplentary care from the brightest specialists and a diagnosis never reached. > Did I ever ask you what kind of doctor you actually are? I think you did. My patients think the kind of doctor I am as a caring one. frank >I'm not sure which post you're referring to I was referring to the first one in this thread: > I have been fighting a ,thus far, unspecifically diagnosed skin >disease or aliment, for lack of proper medical terms, for over 5 years. I'm sure you are a caring 'doctor'. What are you trained in? What do you practise as? Skin diseases? Alternative medicine? Elly's Tinnitus Resources http://eebee.net/ >> Did you notice that the skin disease has been treated for the past >> FIVE years - in isolation - without success? [quoted text clipped - 51 lines] > >frank > I'm sure you are a caring 'doctor'. > What are you trained in? What do you practise as? > Skin diseases? Alternative medicine? If I'm not mistaken, Frank is an optometrist. Susan I should have quoted a bit more. > I have been fighting a ,thus far, unspecifically diagnosed skin >disease or aliment, for lack of proper medical terms, for over 5 years. >My tinnitus is directly linked to this disease, because as time went >by, the more disease tissue I killed ( for lack of a better medical >term), the less intense my tinnitus has become. Elly's Tinnitus Resources http://eebee.net/ >>I'm not sure which post you're referring to > [quoted text clipped - 67 lines] >*** Free account sponsored by SecureIX.com *** >*** Encrypt your Internet usage with a free VPN account from http://www.SecureIX.com *** On 3/17/06 12:29 PM, in article 1142627349.243632.291050@j33g2000cwa.googlegroups.com, "drfrank21@gmail.com" >> x-no-archive: yes >> [quoted text clipped - 27 lines] > > frank Point is, just because a person is pregnant, doesn't mean they can't have gall stones or kidney stones and the two may not be related at all. On the other hand it takes a good diagnostician to make the proper diagnosis of stomach distress in a 7 month pregnant person. I had removed my original message because of some pending potential legal issues with everyhting that has happened to me, but I decided to re-enter it here. Part of my 'treatment' was 200 mg Doxocycline for 4 months, which did help alot. Even though the professionals have told me in so many words that the skin disease is not related to my tinnitus, I am the one who hears it..it's like telling me the sky is not blue. I have not ruled out the possibilty that the skin disease is a form of parasite infection, refer to the links: http://www.skinparasites.com http://www.dstressdoc.com/skin-problems.htm Here is my original post: Hi, I have been fighting a ,thus far, unspecifically diagnosed skin disease or aliment, for lack of proper medical terms, for over 5 years. My tinnitus is directly linked to this disease, because as time went by, the more disease tissue I killed ( for lack of a better medical term), the less intense my tinnitus has become. My skin disease was biopsied as actinic keratosis but that result is highly questionable because it does not have the typical characteristics of AK. I had used Efudex prescription cream along with Solaraze ,to a lesser extent, over the time period. The disease affected the top and sides of my scalp, behind the ears, the outter ears, my forehead, face, throat, chest, and interestingly, the tissue on my scrotum is/was thickened, which I believe may be related to the overall skin disease. The intensity of my tinnitus was right off the charts and still is very bothersome at times but much less than 5 years ago. I have been to 5 dermatologist, 2 ENT's, an allegist, a lupus doctor and several others. I am at a loss to verify what I have. I have been put in a position of trying to research the possibilites on my own, and been branded a nutcase, by some of the doctors who have thus far failed to explain what I have. A psychiatist has recorded in writing that the incesscent ringing in my ears is a hallucination, along with a number of other false derogatory remarks, I refer you to http://www.cchr.org I am still speculating what I have. During the 'killing process" some of the skin areas had what I will call a biting sensation, as if some sort of parasite was in the skin, doing the damage. I have speculated on what that could be also. When I mentioned the possibilty of some sort of parasitic infection, I got branded a nutcase again, I refer you to http://www.skinparasites.com I had photo's posted of the progression of killing the skin disease/infection, or whatever it is, but I removed them because they looked pretty awful. During the killing process some of the areas itched intensely. I would like to know if it is feasible to record the sound of the ringing and where I can have that done. I could send an amplified version for the psychiatrist to listen to on his walkman for about 4 or 5 years. And then tell him its all an hallucination. And let him wear the walkman for another 4 or 5 years along with some anti-hallucination medication, to see if it controls the problem. I know everybody is desperately looking for answers, including myself, and if any one has any input or possible similar experiences please chime in Cheers, Rich > I had removed my original message because of some pending potential > legal issues with everyhting that has happened to me, but I decided to > re-enter it here. Part of my 'treatment' was 200 mg Doxocycline for 4 > months, which did help alot. I got help from 200mg doxy per day. I got much better results on 400mg per day. Susan |
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