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Medical Forum / Diseases and Disorders / Tinnitus / October 2005Tinnitus problem-Please help
Hello, Unfortunately, I seem to be affected by a relatively mild, but still annoying form of Tinnitus. It seemed to all start this Labor Day, 2005. I went to a country concert up in Rutland, Vermont. The concert lasted a little over 2 hours, and was unfortunately excessively loud. After the concert ended, I noticed a distinct ringing in both of my ears. This did not bother me too much at first, since, in the past, I've had this happen after going to a concert and the condition usually went away in as little as a day or so. I also don't go to that many concerts or loud events. Maybe about 3 or so in a year. However, this time the ringing did not go away. About 3 days later, I called and made an appointment with an ENT. So, 4 days from the concert, my hearing was checked and my condition diagnosed. Per my doctor, my exam showed my hearing to be perfectly normal with normal hearing in both ears and across all frequencies. The ringing, which I have been experiencing is known as tinnitus, and is likely related to the acoustic trauma I experienced at the concert. He also said this condition may improve or even go away after a few weeks or a few months... but there is also a chance it may never go away. At this point, it is almost a month since the day of the concert, and the ringing in both ears did not go away. While it is not as bad as a day or so after the concert, it is certainly still there. It seems to bother me most at night, when I am trying to go to sleep or I wake up in the middle of the night. I do have a fan on at night which helps to buffer the sound in one of my ears.. but then I am still bothered by the ear which actually rests on the pillow (I sleep on my side at night). I realize now after doing research that I should have worn ear protection at the concert. But, am I going to have to be punished for the rest of my life for this mistake? I'm only 31 years old. I also feel there really should be more public information out there warning people to wear ear protection at concerts, so someone else isn't as unfortunate as I was. For instance, they should probably have a stand at most concerts selling ear plugs and warning of potential damage to the ears if you don't wear the protection. This is probably a whole other debate all together, but for a lousy 2 hour concert, it is rather upsetting to have to go through this. But anyway, is there anything else I can possibly do to make this condition subside or even go away completely? Any advice would be greatly appreciated. Thanks in advance for your help. Chris I´m sorry to hear about your new tinnitus. Let´s hope it´ll go away. Only 31 (!) I was 14 when my T begun - now I´m 29 and it has been there ever since. It has even increased with time. - I´d wish that I would have been able to experience 31 years without Tinnitus!!!!! It comes sneaking - and kills you slowly. If you´re careful from now on it might go away - or at least it won´t get worse. -Anders > Hello, > [quoted text clipped - 45 lines] > > Chris What is the answer from your high-tech doctor for your tinnitus? Habituation again? After so many years, have you been successful with this habituation thing? Are you suffering in silence? Are you suffering in silence? How can he? He has tinnitus genius. frank > Are you suffering in silence? > > How can he? He has tinnitus genius. Kindly elaborate. FP > frank > > Are you suffering in silence? > > [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > > > > frank A hohoho a hahaha, chortle, guffaw, snicker, arf arf arf, titter. Is silence in your mind or actually out there? I wonder if deaf people get tinnitus... Pete x > > Are you suffering in silence? > > [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > > FP Francis, were you dropped as a baby?? Or is it that the ginkgo that you're taken has affected your mental status?? Think about your words to someone with tinnitus: "Are you suffering in silence?". Pleaseeeee tell me that you can see the irony in your words?? I just can't give you anymore hints. frank > > > Are you suffering in silence? > > > [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > Pleaseeeee tell me that you can see the irony in your words?? > I just can't give you anymore hints. The irony in my words, as *I* see it, is that he has not found anything that helps him and thus is forced to habituate without raising any more complaint. I don't have any problem with my mental status but I think when you are expressing yourself in American language you should elaborate what you intend to express when your interlocutor does not quite understand. FP > frank fp > The irony in my words, as *I* see it, is that he has not found anything > that helps him and thus is forced to habituate without raising any more > complaint. I don't think you quite understand that habituation is actually an essential "learned" behaviour. Without this process, it leads too many dyfunctions: Quote: "Unfortunately, nature or nurture (or both) sometimes conspire to disrupt an individual's capacity to habituate. The result can be cognitive and emotional chaos: Odd relationships, constantly overwhelming feelings and serious impediments to learning. Understanding habituation may be one key to helping your child cope with what he may otherwise experience as chaos. Habituation means familiarization. It is the process of recognition which allows us to unconsciously say, "Oh yeah, I know what that is" so that our limited mental energy can move on to something new. Habituation is what allows you to implicitly tune out the hum of your computer, the rub of fabric against your skin and even the sound of the kids arguing downstairs so that you direct your attention to these words. If you were unable to habituate - unable to implicitly tune out the familiar - you would cognitively and emotionally drown in the flood of information which bombards your brain every moment and has done so since long before you were born. Think about it: You are constantly surrounded by an ever-changing panoply of colors and shapes, movement, texture, smells and sounds. If you had to pay conscious attention to every little sound and sight and taste and smell, you would never have a rational thought. Without the ability to habituate, the species could never have survived. It is our ability to cognitively digest the familiar and thereby free up our attention and energy to explore the unfamiliar that allows each individual (and by extension, the species) to learn and grow." --end quote-- Thus in absence of any real "cure", habituation is an important adaptative process in tinnitus. >fp I don't have any problem with my mental status but...... You have anger management issues (you've had some impressive rants!), hate women, and seem ignorant of western medicine. frank Always nagling with him again? fp > The irony in my words, as *I* see it, is that he has not found anything > that helps him and thus is forced to habituate without raising any more > complaint. I don't think you quite understand that habituation is actually an essential "learned" behaviour. Without this process, it leads too many dyfunctions: Quote: "Unfortunately, nature or nurture (or both) sometimes conspire to disrupt an individual's capacity to habituate. The result can be cognitive and emotional chaos: Odd relationships, constantly overwhelming feelings and serious impediments to learning. Understanding habituation may be one key to helping your child cope with what he may otherwise experience as chaos. Habituation means familiarization. It is the process of recognition which allows us to unconsciously say, "Oh yeah, I know what that is" so that our limited mental energy can move on to something new. Habituation is what allows you to implicitly tune out the hum of your computer, the rub of fabric against your skin and even the sound of the kids arguing downstairs so that you direct your attention to these words. If you were unable to habituate - unable to implicitly tune out the familiar - you would cognitively and emotionally drown in the flood of information which bombards your brain every moment and has done so since long before you were born. Think about it: You are constantly surrounded by an ever-changing panoply of colors and shapes, movement, texture, smells and sounds. If you had to pay conscious attention to every little sound and sight and taste and smell, you would never have a rational thought. Without the ability to habituate, the species could never have survived. It is our ability to cognitively digest the familiar and thereby free up our attention and energy to explore the unfamiliar that allows each individual (and by extension, the species) to learn and grow." --end quote-- Thus in absence of any real "cure", habituation is an important adaptative process in tinnitus. >fp I don't have any problem with my mental status but...... You have anger management issues (you've had some impressive rants!), hate women, and seem ignorant of western medicine. frank You quoted:"If you were unable to habituate - unable to implicitly tune out the familiar - you would cognitively and emotionally drown in the flood of information which bombards your brain every moment and has done so since long before you were born. .." I totally disagree to your quoted. When someone is unable to habituate, that means he has ills other than tinnitus. He should consult a doctor or if to no avail an alternative doctor. ....and drfrank continued to lament:"You have anger management issues (you've had some impressive rants!), hate women, and seem ignorant of western medicine. I love to sleep with women but I do despise some of the values that have been socialized into them by society. Thus you should not consider me as hating women at all. Secondly, that I am not as knowledgeable of western medicine as you are does not mean i am totally ignorant of western med. Thirdly, a person's lack of knowledge of a school of med does not entitle him to fall into the issue of "anger management". Are you suggesting that you need hate management because you are less knowledgeable of herbs than a herb doctor? You have been speaking incoherently to the point that I no longer consider you an 'educated' person. On that basis, i place you at par intellectually to a car salesman in Detroit. > You have been speaking incoherently to the point that I no longer > consider you an 'educated' person. On that basis, i place you at par > intellectually to a car salesman in Detroit. So, you believe that car salesmen and saleswomen are intellectual vacuums and even culturally bankrupt.......You inhabit the biggot's persona more fully, more explicitly than those you accuse of being "biggots. PaulS <fyfpoon@gmail.com> wrote in message news:1128644675.451071.323590@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com... > You have been speaking incoherently to the point that I no longer > consider you an 'educated' person. On that basis, i place you at par > intellectually to a car salesman in Detroit. So, you believe that car salesmen and saleswomen are intellectual vacuums and even culturally bankrupt.......You inhabit the biggot's persona more fully, more explicitly than those you accuse of being "biggots. PaulS I wonder what VI (village idiot) would say if the morally bankrupt car salesperson (trying to be P.C.) also loved Mozart and Vivaldi and not Metallica and Red Hot Chili Peppers. Oh.....the confusion, the cognitive dissonance, the breach of stereotype, the drooling that results. HNG Mr.PhD, Where on earth does logics suggest that 'being at parity' necessarily implies the absence of something in comparison or in this case your quoted 'moral bankruptcy'? Where did you get your degree? Mr. Smart PaulaSS, Being at par with someone does not mean the persons in comparison are "vacuums or even culturally bankrupt". Polish up your logics first. > You quoted:"If you were unable to habituate - unable to implicitly tune > out the [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > habituate, that means he has ills other than tinnitus. He should > consult a doctor or if to no avail an alternative doctor. Please educate yourself. Tell that to the kids with spd (sensory processing disorder) or sis (sensory integration syndrome) or even to the more severe forms, autism. These are all disorders relating to the inability to habituate. The "ill" is the inability to habituate. Get it?? You're not likely to be familiar with "Hallum's" principle of tinnitus(spelling?)- that there are different levels of habituation with the same levels of tinnitus/noise. I think there was a study that was trying to show that disinhibition, rather than incomplete habituation, was responsible for this phenonemon. Sorry, prob way over your head (quick, get some gingko and black beans). > Thirdly, a person's lack of knowledge of a school of med does not > entitle him to fall into the issue of "anger management". Are you > suggesting that you need hate management because you are less > knowledgeable of herbs than a herb doctor? The two are independent, genius. You've had many an impressive rant suggesting that anger management for you could be invaluable. > You have been speaking incoherently to the point that I no longer > consider you an 'educated' person. On that basis, i place you at par > intellectually to a car salesman in Detroit. I think everyone else that have read my posts may disagree. At least be a man and point out some examples. But I guess I could use smaller words for you if that would help ya out. frank >>You quoted:"If you were unable to habituate - unable to implicitly tune >>out the [quoted text clipped - 34 lines] > > frank Dr. Frank, what we are likely to agree on is that it would be far more helpful for you to use your kill file instead of giving FP exactly what he's trolling for. Just sayinzall. Susan Susan, It would be more helpful if you just keep your mouth shut while lurking. You have just given FP a chance to get something for which he has been 'trolling'. > x-no-archive: yes > Dr. Frank, what we are likely to agree on is that it would be far more > helpful for you to use your kill file instead of giving FP exactly what [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > > Susan Susan, FP used to be just a village idiot but I fear he's losing it. More of an unstable village idiot now. But you're right, it would be easier trying to talk to a rock than with FP. frank > Susan, FP used to be just a village idiot but I fear he's losing it. > More of an unstable village idiot now. More? Now? Not fer nuthin', but have you had a look at his usenet posting history? > But you're right, it would be > easier trying to talk to a rock than with FP. You know the saying; never wrestle a pig in the mud. You both get dirty and the pig loves it. ;-) Susan I like this saying very much. you obviously seem to have loved the action. Some people such as me did suffer from an ill other than tinnitus and this ill and tinnitus existed side by side. It was hard to figure out which was the cause of my discomfort. On that basis, it is unwise to advise a client to keep habituating without finding out what actually bothers him. That "I think everyone else that have read my posts may disagree" does not vitiate my argument. That 'everybody' is no benchmark for measurement. Your prescription of hate management is as valid to you as it is to the ones to whom you freely prescribe. I am doing a study on the use of Ear Aid for tinnitus and I am seeking physicians or audiologists with Tinnitus for this study. If you are one or know of one please contact me so I can explain the protocol. Why physicians and audiologists? When you study Tinnitus treatment it is extremely difficult to eliminate the placebo effect and I hope to do so here. Thanks Murray Grossan, M.D. entconsult@aol.com Dear Ron, Your tinnitus may or may not have anything to do with going to the concert and the two events might have been a correlational relationship. But obviously going to a rock concert does not help your ear and it even hinders your intellectual development or its makes you intellectually inferior! Try classic music from now on. You may even get some help for your ear from classical music. At any rate, here in China, whenever a person experiences tinnitus 'regardless of reasons', he is likely sent for intravenous injection. A few people I personally know have experienced improvement and some permanent improvement. Your high-tech expensive American ENT doctors may disagree to this approach but then again they do not answers anyway. In that particular regard, your ENT doctor is no more help to your problem than your favourite rock singer. If I were you, I would ask the doctor if it helps to go for a few sessions of intravenous injection of blood vessel dilating medicine. The European doctors practice this quite a bit but the Anglo doctors don't seem to like this practice for whatever reasons. So do NOT be under the impression that this practice is too 'foreign' or too 'ethnic' for you. If your American doctor turns you down or advises against it, you then ask for some blood vessel dilating tablets and see that is OK with their professional requirement. Ask in addition if BETAHISTINE helps. The British doctors in Hong Kong use this medicine quite a bit. It helps your inner ear fluid circulation. If your doctor advises you against it again, you go to a pharmacist and ask for gingko biloba. Gingko biloba is a blood thinning medicine which helps your blood circulation in the head. You are not going to get a stroke or anything serious with only one tablet a day for a couple of week. So don't get scared by whoever. If you experience the 'softening' of your tinnitus sound after taking gingko biloba, stick with it for a prolonged period of time. If nothing happens after a couple of weeks, drop it. It is as simple as that. Never mind the micky mousy 'controlled' studies passed around. I am sure your pharmacist could advises you the do's and don'ts with this medicine. This is the first thing you should do. Secondly, give up your pillow. Use a wrapped towel to support your neck at night. The purpose of that is allow yourself to lie flat to help with your blood circulation in your head. Thirdly, please bear in mind that your American doctors are not necessarily the best ones in the world. As a matter of fact, they are not any better than those cheap ones in China, Thailand, or India except that they look fancier and their clinics tidier but for that you pay many times more. If your current ENT doctor in the US were also a R'n'R lover or a Bob Hope show goer, chances would be that intellectually he has been dumbed down already. So why go for a dumb doctor? Try the above two steps and see how you feel. FP =================================== > Hello, > [quoted text clipped - 45 lines] > > Chris <snowfish@gct21.net> wrote in message news:3kcsj1hmbdmkor87t4u4v6k6uif4frcfn3@4ax.com... Hi Chris. Welcome to the group. > He also said this > condition may improve or even go away after a few weeks or a few > months... but there is also a chance it may never go away. I'd agree with all that... > At this point, it is almost a month since the day of the concert, and > the ringing in both ears did not go away. While it is not as bad as a > day or so after the concert, it is certainly still there. It seems to > bother me most at night, when I am trying to go to sleep or I wake up > in the middle of the night. Exactly what I find (or should I say: 'found' - because even when it's loud now, I don't give a tinkers about it... ) > I also feel there really should be more public information out there > warning people to wear ear protection at concerts, so someone else > isn't as unfortunate as I was. For instance, they should probably > have a stand at most concerts selling ear plugs and warning of > potential damage to the ears if you don't wear the protection. Or... maybe they should just turn the racket down. If the content has real musical merit, why does it need to be loud to be enjoyed ? >This is > probably a whole other debate all together, but for a lousy 2 hour > concert, it is rather upsetting to have to go through this. I felt just the same when I got my own tinnitus 2½ years ago. You have my sympathies. > But anyway, is there anything else I can possibly do to make this > condition subside or even go away completely? Any advice would be > greatly appreciated. Thanks in advance for your help. Assuming your tinnitus proves long-term, things I've found work for me.... 1) ¼ tablet of Aspirin a day. Much safer than Gingko, much cheaper, and also more effective. A valuable tool. This really cuts my tinnitus back. 2) If it's ever really bad, I use hearing amplification that has been tailored to boost only the audio band around the tinnitus frequency. I made this myself, but hearing aids can also do this. Wearing this device makes the tinnitus inaudible under the boosted real-world sounds and the brain then goes on to suppress it anyway, even after you take the thing off. An instant escape. 3) Keep busy, outward-looking and social. My brain removes the tinnitus under these conditions. It needs to use the processing capacity elsewhere. 4) Time. After 2 years the 'habituation' process is more or less complete. This means the tinnitus becomes so familiar your hearing becomes 'deadened' to it. You actually have to actively listen for the T to hear it. And when you do, it has lost all its old significance so you quickly get bored and forget all about it. In a nutshell, in one way or another, your life returns to normal as it was pre-tinnitus. Impossible for tinnitus newbies to believe I know but this is what I've found... :-) Your mileage may vary. Good luck. Steve Steve wrote:"Time. After 2 years the 'habituation' process is more or less complete. " After 2 years, whatever that caused your tinnitus might have healed by itself. Have a look at http://eebee.net/TinnitusIsaPainintheNeck.shtml Try the neck exercises for a while. Also the other things mentioned on that page. Elly's Tinnitus Resources http://eebee.net/ >Hello, > [quoted text clipped - 45 lines] > >Chris |
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