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Medical Forum / Diseases and Disorders / Tinnitus / September 2005Currious
I come here and troll around a bit reading about what people are doing to rid themselves of tinnitus...I'm actually somewhat weary about trying to rid myself of mine. Have any of you who are trying to get rid of it have had it for your entire lives? You see, mine annoys me sometimes. Especially if I go for a long bout without dewaxing my ears. At that point external sounds are drowned out and the ring is far more pressing. But it's been the norm for me as far back into childhood as I can remember. I somehow think that the silence of it's abscence would be as maddening as the tinnitus itself is to those who have recently been afflicted. I think of it like this. I've actually used a sound program and created a multi track reproduction of my tinnitus including all four tones I hear. I'll have people sit at an equal distance from the speakers as I am and I'll start the sound going and turn it up JUST until I can hear it over my tinnitus. It takes about two minutes for them to beg me to shut it off. I have to think that if hearing it is that annoying to them that not hearing it would be so for me. > I come here and troll around a bit reading about what people are doing > to rid themselves of tinnitus...I'm actually somewhat weary about > trying to rid myself of mine. > > Have any of you who are trying to get rid of it have had it for your > entire lives? I have heard of two cases. For myself, it has cut down tremendously albeit there are still days in a week my ear is a bit noisy FP ============================ > You see, mine annoys me sometimes. Especially if I go for a long bout > without dewaxing my ears. At that point external sounds are drowned [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > them to beg me to shut it off. I have to think that if hearing it is > that annoying to them that not hearing it would be so for me. > I have to think that if hearing it is > that annoying to them that not hearing it would be so for me. Yes as long as the T is not excessively loud, once you get really 'habituated' it becomes like an old friend. It's like a hissing radio, a sign that everything is switched on and working; and you don't have to listen to it unless you want to. In comparison a dead silence could be like an empty void, almost terrifying. Steve >> I have to think that if hearing it is >> that annoying to them that not hearing it would be so for me. [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > > Steve I guess I haven't had T long enough to believe this part... I remember the silence and I miss it terribly. I can't imagine this intruder ever being a friendly companion. Selah  Signature========================================================= IM ME! No, really, you can find me at Yahoo (TWCDesign), AIM & MSN (TWCrew), and ICQ (21684653). ========================================================= > I guess I haven't had T long enough to believe this part... I remember > the silence and I miss it terribly. I can't imagine this intruder ever > being a friendly companion. How long have you had your tinnitus Selah? I remember when I first got my T I would have agreed with what you are saying now - absolutely. I never could imagine 'getting used to it' and even then there were posters on this group who assured me I would. But I thought they were just making the best of a bad job because they had no alternative. I didn't want to join their sad club. I just wanted my silence back. People's T's vary, but I can only report my experiences. 1) It's got quieter on the whole, even though it's still usually there. 2) My brain has learned how to effortlessly blank it out most of the time. This 'habituation' seems to be a trick the brain can pull at quite a deep level. ie. it's _not_ the same as 'bravely deciding to ignore it. In general my life, morale etc. is now _exactly_ the same as it was pre-tinnitus. 3) When it does have a really loud spell, I have the comfort of knowing this situation will be temporary. 4) I've learned various methods to quieten it if I ever get really p*ssed off with it. Two that work for me are: a ? tablet of Aspirin a day, and wearing temporary high frequency hearing amplification (I'm an engineer). This latter method was a vital tool to make me feel in control in the early days. Who wants to wait the two years before habituation kicks in ? I don't want to sound smug. You might be an old tinnitus-pro for all I know. Tinnitus can get worse as well as better over long periods. And not everybody believes this stuff about habituation... BEN ???? But for most of us there is hope. Steve >> I guess I haven't had T long enough to believe this part... I >> remember the silence and I miss it terribly. I can't imagine this [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > alternative. I didn't want to join their sad club. I just wanted my > silence back. I'm starting month 6. On my best days I'm barely able to function (I'm also having daily headaches that are almost migraine intensity)... on my worst days I'm truly suicidal and wondering how long I can do this. Glad to know there is the hope that my body and mind might adjust to this better than it's doing now. Selah Signature========================================================= IM ME! No, really, you can find me at Yahoo (TWCDesign), AIM & MSN (TWCrew), and ICQ (21684653). ========================================================= >> I'm starting month 6. On my best days I'm barely able to function (I'm > also having daily headaches that are almost migraine intensity)... on my [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > > Selah When things are really bad, generally the only direction they can go is better. Hang in there, get all the medical help you can, and keep posting here. Steve >Glad to know there is the hope that my body and mind might adjust to >this better than it's doing now As inconceivable as it might sound right now, that's the way it works. Don't go putting a time frame on it else you'll fall into the trap of having to perform according to schedule and setting yourself up for failure in the process. Stopping to count the number of days, weeks, months will make things a little easier for you and remember when things are rough: tinnitus cannot harm you, keep repeating that. As I mentioned in the other posting, getting over T is a process, not an event. Keep trusting yourself and do not allow yourself to loose sight of common sense. There really is a tunnel and there really is a light at the end of it. Things will be better than they are now but no one can promise you when. Hang in there, try some relaxation and/or breathing excersizes, they're free and will make life a little more bearable. All the best, Bart. - Check my most up to date email address at: www.haruteq.com/contact.htm awesome banjo bridges, tabs, stained glass: www.haruteq.com **may your moments of need be met by moments of compassion** >People's T's vary Sure enough, T varies for most people - different sounds, intensity etc. The important thing of course, is how you react/respond to the sound as that is what decides whether you're having a hard time because of it or not. >'bravely deciding to ignore it So glad you brought this up as it is a guaranteed-to-loose strategy. Purposely ignoring takes vast amounts of personal energythat could be used to try and enjoy life. Think of it as money: each day you're given an allowance - you can but a lot of stuff but not everything you want because once it's gone it's gone. In the case of T, once it's gone you're stuck "enjoying" your T because you have no enrgy left to enjoy a good movie, your favourite CD or whatever >Who wants to wait the two years before habituation kicks in ? Yup, a way of thinking that belongs in our society/culture - we come to expect nothing less than instant solution and when they're not forthcoming that's when we lash out against anything and anyone "preventing" us from achieving our goals. Many a good doctor gets the short end of the stick here, deservedly or otherwise: them yucky doctors don't know what they're talking about. The thing to keep in mind is that getting over T is a process - not an event. >But for most of us there is hope There's hope for EVERYONE, there really is, although it helps to be modest about what you're hoping for. Hoping/wishing/wanting/demanding complete silence is simply too tall an order for reality. Something along the lines of being no longer bothered by the sounds however, is quite doable and yields far better returns that are achievable by MOST people. Easy for me to say eh... Yup, sometimes it sure don't look that way, does it. The durndest thing though, if you allow yourself to accept this as a legit way of reasoning, even if only until something better comes along, you be surprised at the number of people who smile as they read this and say "that was me back then and ain't that the truth." Here's wishing you to will soon agree, Bart. - Check my most up to date email address at: www.haruteq.com/contact.htm awesome banjo bridges, tabs, stained glass: www.haruteq.com **may your moments of need be met by moments of compassion** You wrote:"- absolutely. I never could imagine 'getting used to it' and ..." In my humble opinion, your body part or whatever part that caused your t recovered to a certain degree by itself. > I don't want to sound smug. You might be an old tinnitus-pro for all I know. > Tinnitus can get worse as well as better over long periods. And not > everybody believes this stuff about habituation... BEN ???? Huh? I am awake now mate! I sat up watching the live scoreboard of Agassi versus Blake the other night on the US Open tennis website - how sad is that? I can honestly say that from 1.20 am until the dratted nerve-racking tie-break at 6.15 am, I didn't notice my T at all :))) I certainly didn't notice because I am a fan of Agassi's play - great stuff from the old bloke! It isn't that I don't believe in habituation Steve, but how people pop up here, and like bloody Daleks, say "habituate!" over and over again - it's as bad as the docs saying they can do nowt for us to me :P Murray will keep on about the similarity to wearing a tight bra - and no, I don't wear one :D - and it is nothing like that to me. We are all very different, and my T is either there or it ain't! I don't see how anyone can deny it's there when it is, but then that's just me, I guess. Ben Ben, During the period of time that you were watching that tennis match and didn't hear your tinnitus, you had habituated and didn't have it. It is not something that you try to do, it is something you allow to happen. It can happen when you stop thinking about your T and live your life. SignatureHNG A Zen Thought: Remember, half the people you know are below average. Howard N. Gutnick, Ph.D. Body Pride Personal Training BodyPride@cox.net www.BodyPrideOnline.com 757 496-3270 Home 757 630-9208 Mobile >> I don't want to sound smug. You might be an old tinnitus-pro for all I > know. [quoted text clipped - 21 lines] > > Ben > Ben, > > During the period of time that you were watching that tennis match and > didn't hear your tinnitus, you had habituated and didn't have it. It is not > something that you try to do, it is something you allow to happen. It can > happen when you stop thinking about your T and live your life. Then again, it wasn't making a noise anyway? :) Ben >> Ben, >> [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > > Ben What was the "it" that wasn't making the noise? SignatureHNG A Zen Thought: He who laughs last didn't get the joke. Howard N. Gutnick, Ph.D. Body Pride Personal Training BodyPride@cox.net www.BodyPrideOnline.com 757 496-3270 Home 757 630-9208 Mobile > > I have to think that if hearing it is > > that annoying to them that not hearing it would be so for me. [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > > In comparison a dead silence could be like an empty void, almost terrifying. While you are enjoying the noise and the habituation process, you might as well make an effort to find out what causes the t. That your doctors don't know does not mean you don't have to know. The t sound is a warning that something in your body system is not functioning properly. Can it be otherwise? FP > Steve > In my humble opinion, your body part or whatever part that caused your > t recovered to a certain degree by itself. Agreed. Habituation is all very well, but there are limits to what it can deal with. And as I have just said: " It's got quieter on the whole, even though it's still usually there." This group always makes it louder though! :-) Just shows the part that attention must play in the perceived volume. > While you are enjoying the noise and the habituation process, you might > as well make an effort to find out what causes the t. That your > doctors don't know does not mean you don't have to know. Quite - thus my experiments and analysis at detinnitiser.com . Equally though, my views and conclusions are unlikely to be worth more than those held by medical opinion. Indeed, the chances are they're likely to be worth far less... >The t sound > is a warning that something in your body system is not functioning > properly. Can it be otherwise? No. But in the absent of reliable treatment we must look for other strategies in coping. And fortunately the brain has its own built-in coping mechanism - habituation. It's far from perfect but it does help greatly in many cases. ------------------------------------ PS. A couple of 'fads' for the consideration of the group. Two foods: 'Corn Flakes' and 'Liquorice Allsorts' seem to help my T. I wonder what they contain ? Steve >Two foods: 'Corn Flakes' and 'Liquorice Allsorts' seem to help my T. I wonder what they >contain ? Uh, hmmm, uh, mostly corn and licorice. The latter happens to work pretty good as a laxative for some people so the relief obtained in this case, yeah, I suppose I can see that taking down anyone's T level a notch or two alright :))) Bart. - Check my most up to date email address at: www.haruteq.com/contact.htm awesome banjo bridges, tabs, stained glass: www.haruteq.com **may your moments of need be met by moments of compassion** You replied:"No. But in the absent of reliable treatment we must look for other strategies in coping..." I think the answer may be a 'yes'. My t is quieter gradually. *one* of the treatment I have used is a tablet of gingko each morning empty stomached. > You replied:"No. But in the absent of reliable treatment we must look > for other [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > of the treatment I have used is a tablet of gingko each morning empty > stomached. Francis, you may remember my own experience with Ginkgo, which started to cause nosebleeds - and Murray warned me there could be worse to come. And I value my eyesight. My quarter aspirin a day is as least as effective as the Ginkgo was, but without the risk factor. Steve > > You replied:"No. But in the absent of reliable treatment we must look > > for other [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > cause nosebleeds - and Murray warned me there could be worse to come. And I > value my eyesight. Take half...or 1/3. > My quarter aspirin a day is as least as effective as the Ginkgo was, but > without the risk factor. Take more of it and you will get the same effect. FP > Steve >> > You replied:"No. But in the absent of reliable treatment we must look >> > for other [quoted text clipped - 19 lines] >> >> Steve Which is the best buy, aspirin or ginkgo? Which comes in the most reliable dosage, aspirin or ginkgo? Which has been studied most thoroughly, aspirin or ginkgo? Which of the two would one consider multi-purpose? Aspirin, in sufficient dosage, will induce tinnitus. Will ginkgo? No such thing as a reliable doseage for Ginkho Biloba, it varies from manufacturer to manufacturer and even then the strength varies from shipment to shipment. In sufficient doses ginkho can induce a lot of misery and tinnitus would be the very least of your problems. For my money you'd get a lot more mileage out of buying a CD with some nice soothing music instead. Bart. > No such thing as a reliable doseage for Ginkho Biloba, it varies from > manufacturer to manufacturer and even then the strength varies from [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > more mileage out of buying a CD with some nice soothing music instead. > Bart. I think Stephen Nagler used to say that a brand called Ginkgold was wells standardized and independently tested. In sufficient doses, any substance can harm rather than help. I do know a couple of folks who experienced benefits from it, one of them for tinnitus. Susan Standardized in what? The medical crowd sets the compounds they want standardized and some of the ginko people claim none of those compounds as they are not the ones some are looking for. Standardization is not a good practice because of the evil herbal companies using solvents to extract the "goodness" out of cheap herbs to "standardize" the strength. While the drug companies admit doing this they claim all the carbon tetrachloride or other solvents have evaporated before dispensing. > x-no-archive: yes > [quoted text clipped - 14 lines] > > Susan > Standardized in what? Standardized in terms of the potency of each pill in each package being uniform and as stated on the box. > The medical crowd sets the compounds they want standardized and some of the > ginko people claim none of those compounds as they are not the ones some are > looking for. This has nothing to do with standardization; it's a natural product by a company that actually passed independent testing as to potency and product content of active GB ingredient. That's what standardization means, it's not about pissing wars over what's good and what's evil. > Standardization is not a good practice because of the evil herbal companies > using solvents to extract the "goodness" out of cheap herbs to "standardize" > the strength. While the drug companies admit doing this they claim all the > carbon tetrachloride or other solvents have evaporated before dispensing. <*yawn*> Susan Just plain crap. Potency of what? Who picks what the "good stuff" is? They don't standardize the herbal content, they pick a compound listed as the "active ingredient" and standardize that for potency. The FDA and other garbage boards pick these compounds to test against and regulate for standardization. Some ginseng contains no ginsenosides (sp?) because the plants are too young but the weight of the capsules are the same as good quality ginseng. Read up more and get some sleep. Avoidance only gets you an "ignorance" label > x-no-archive: yes > [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] > product content of active GB ingredient. That's what standardization > means, it's not about pissing wars over what's good and what's evil. > Just plain crap. Potency of what? Who picks what the "good stuff" is? > [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > Read up more and get some sleep. Avoidance only gets you an "ignorance" > label Ya know, Larry, as a long time user of herbal medicines, I've made it my business to know what's in the stuff I use. Susan > Ya know, Larry, as a long time user of herbal medicines, I've made it my > business to know what's in the stuff I use. Good for you Susan. I am sure, along with the success St John's Wort has brought to depressed people, that the big drug-makers aren't too keen on us buying a good old-fashioned remedies - they lose millions of $$$! Ben You only know what is on the label and nothing else. Don't fool yourself. Ginseng, for example, was tested for what somebody determined was the important compound contained in it and found over many samples from different outlets that some brands contained nothing. Don't get me wrong Susie Q, I support the herbal game as much as anybody does and live my life as natural as I can. I wouldn't say I am perfect with it but I do read much on it. or used to...LOL The point is the important ingredient is always broken down into one "active" ingredient by people that are not "herbal" people and determined from that. It's a start but not a good system. > x-no-archive: yes > [quoted text clipped - 15 lines] > > Susan > You only know what is on the label and nothing else. Don't fool yourself. > [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > "active" ingredient by people that are not "herbal" people and determined > from that. It's a start but not a good system. Larry, I'm sorry, but I've read this post of yours over and again, and I can't for the life of me figure out what it is that you're saying. Susan You don't understand what I am saying but you can argue you disagree with it? Have a great one. > x-no-archive: yes > [quoted text clipped - 16 lines] > > Susan > You don't understand what I am saying but you can argue you disagree with > it? > > Have a great one. I didn't understand that particular post, Larry, so, no, I didn't argue it, which fact escaped your notice. Susan I don't know the purpose in repeating what I have already posted if you either cannot read them or cannot understand the difference between a herb and some compound contained in the herb. > x-no-archive: yes > [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > > Susan On 9/10/05 7:06 PM, in article 3ohhprF5vkibU1@individual.net, "Susan" <nevermind@nomail.com> wrote: > Larry, I'm sorry, but I've read this post of yours over and again, and I > can't for the life of me figure out what it is that you're saying. That is correct, Susan, no one else can either and no need to try. > On 9/10/05 7:06 PM, in article 3ohhprF5vkibU1@individual.net, "Susan" > <nevermind@nomail.com> wrote: [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > > That is correct, Susan, no one else can either and no need to try. The suspense is killing me. Larry, clear this up once and for all. I don't recommend Gingko to my patients. A. evidence that it helps T is so so B. whatever you buy is usually not callibrated C I have treated nosebleeds on Gingko. When I do I thank God its the nose and not the brain D. In Southern California, even if you detail that you MUST avoid other blood thinners, patients still will ingest herbs, plants, snakes and who knows what. I don't know what the heck is in that rare chinese herb he is taking. And even if I did, I haven't a clue as to what it does. So why take the risk? E. I have had MD's mistakenly take a product that thins the blood when they were themselves on anticoagulants. If they can make mistakes ..... And that's why there is no Gingko in Ear Aid. >Have any of you who are trying to get rid of it have had it for your >entire lives? Yes, I've had mine for as far back as I can remember although I've given up on trying to get rid of it a goodly while ago. If ever I do that would be nice, it would probably feel strange, but ti would be nice. Whether that day will ever come is kind of a moot point because I usually don't notice it and when I do, it just doesn't bother me. >Especially if I go for a long bout without dewaxing my ears If I remember correctly Doc Grossan told me once not to do that more than once every 3 to 4 months - Murray...? >It takes about two minutes for them to beg me to shut it off Be careful though, some people are likely to become really alarmed about your mental health... All in all, the way it is for me now is kinda like the little red light on the coffee machine, if it's on all systems are ready to go and good times are awaiting. Cheers, Bart. - Check my most up to date email address at: www.haruteq.com/contact.htm awesome banjo bridges, tabs, stained glass: www.haruteq.com **may your moments of need be met by moments of compassion** |
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