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Medical Forum / Diseases and Disorders / Tinnitus / July 2005Desperate !
HI Ive suffered from tinnitus for many years ( im 32) and odd episodes of dizziness too ( for months on end at times). i have to say that i blame myself because i suspect i caused the tinnitus etc but listening to music on my walkman when i was young and foolish. It had been at least 4 years since my last episode of dizziness. However, about 7 weeks ago, i started to get a fluttering sensation and thumping sound in my left ear and movement felt in my right. i couldnt sleep, it was very bad and distracting. Then i flew to Mexico and on descent it was quite painful and i was virtually deaf and feeling dizzy... and the next night after the 10 hour flight there was no such fluttering ( ???) but then i was hit by dizziness for 2 weeks and now the fluttering has returned since a day after my return flight and i have the tinnitus too. Whilst i was in mexico, i saw a doctor and he tested me...he said my eustachian tubes were both swollen and this would account for the noise. I should also add that 2 months before all this i had felt blockage in my left ear and maybe maybe very foolishy i had it syringed which didnt seem to make a difference ( and myabe i should have left it because it was probably an infection). So, any thoughts anyone ? Do you trust your doctor who has personally diagnosed you? do you place more faith on a bunch of online amateurs here? X-No-Archive I am not a professional. As far as I know, both tinnitus and dizziness are symptoms of: ·Meniere's disease (or endolymphatic hydrops. I understand they are related but not the same thing) ·Circulatory disorders ·Diabetes ·Thyroid-related disorders (especially hypothyroidism), and ·Allergies (may be food allergies) it's not sound exposure. you'll have to get some help from family and friends and find a doctor who knows what is going on, which will depend on the effectiveness of YOUR research. medicine hasn't ever studied this issue in depth. there are liquids in the ear that determine our sensations of both hearing and movement. any problems tied to these liquids will set off massive problems. the sense of hearing is the most closely wired to our emotional brain centre, so we feel the illness much more than you might expect. hi I have to disagree with alfred. Of curse it is due to sound exposure originally. Im sure that STEPHEN NAGLER will back this up if he is reading this. so, i know i only have myself to blame. Ive seen lots of docs in the past and nothing has ever helped. So, im totally alone on this one and my life is ruined. > it's not sound exposure. > [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] > the sense of hearing is the most closely wired to our emotional brain > centre, so we feel the illness much more than you might expect. X-No-Archive Dizziness cannot be attributed to sound exposure only. Endolymphatic hydrops, which I stated in my previous reply, is related to the "liquids in the ear that determine our sensations of both hearing and movement" that alfred referred to in his reply. As far as I know: There is a sac in the inner ear. It gets swollen with liquid, and then shrinks. Gets swollen, and shrinks... and so on. Two nerves are passing on this sac: Nerves for hearing and balance. In case of endolymphatic hydrops, the sac gets swollen with liquid, but cannot shrink. That puts pressure on the nerves of hearing and balance. Related to hearing: Tinnitus develops. There may be temporary hearing loss, which may be permanent if endolymphatic hydrops is not treated. Related to balance: There may be dizziness attacks. I think they do "balance tests" for diagnosis. This disease (Meniere's disease) is not common. The dizziness and tinnitus may also be due to a metabolic (diabetes or thyroid) or circulatory problem. Dizziness cannot be attributed to sound exposure only. I think you should have a holistic approach. Some doctors (e.g. ENT) become so specialized and concentrated on their specific field that they sometimes do not realize the relations to other fields. How many doctors have you seen? Are they from the same discipline? Hi all... to return to my original posting... I am adamant that my exposure to loud music many years ago is now the continuing course of my dizziness. 15 years ago when i suddenly started suffering from tinnitus ( after a session of listening to music by headphones), not long after i began to eventaully suffer from dizziness and vertigo. there is surely no coincidence. the sound expose has damaged my ears originally and now i am going to suffer the consequences of my foolish actions, surely. > X-No-Archive > [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > ·Thyroid-related disorders (especially hypothyroidism), and > ·Allergies (may be food allergies) And infectious diseases, including tick borne infections. Susan > x-no-archive: yes > [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] > > Susan I don't mean to be contentious Susan and Elly, but an individual's tinnitus can be associated with any other condition they might have in the absence of a genuine cause/effect relationship. While the tick borne stuff isn't all that common (thankfully) the conditions Elly mentions are. An effect of Diabetes, for example, is high blood glucose level. Everyone with T2 diabetes will have this condition. They won't all have tinnitus, however, and no direct correlation has been established. I know several people with T2 diabetes but not tinnitus which tells me these conditions can coexist without a relationship. Same goes for allergies. > I don't mean to be contentious Susan and Elly, but an individual's tinnitus > can be associated with any other condition they might have in the absence of > a genuine cause/effect relationship. I responded with an additional association. > While the tick borne stuff isn't all > that common (thankfully) the conditions Elly mentions are. The "tick borne stuff" is extremely common. Not only is it the fastest growing/spreading infectious disease (or one of the top few), but virtually all TBD patients not lucky enough to catch it immediately develop T or H or both. > An effect of Diabetes, for example, is high blood glucose level. Everyone > with T2 diabetes will have this condition. > They won't all have tinnitus, > however, and no direct correlation has been established. I know several > people with T2 diabetes but not tinnitus which tells me these conditions can > coexist without a relationship. Same goes for allergies. Which says nothing about the fact that tick borne disease is common, rarely diagnosed early, and disseminates rapidly, and is very efficient at infecting/inflaming the cranial nerves, the CNS and the brain, thereby causing T and H, and severe vertigo, too. Susan <spent years researching tick borne disease and decades living with it> > x-no-archive: yes > [quoted text clipped - 26 lines] > Susan <spent years researching tick borne disease and decades living with > it> Yes, I know you have Susan. There were 497 reported cases of Lymes disease in Maryland in 1997, and probably tens of thousands of cases of T2 diabetes. With conditions as common as tinnitus and T2 diabetes, it is extremely likely the two will coexist in many people. I have tinnitus. Did it cause my T2 diabetes? I don't think so. > Yes, I know you have Susan. There were 497 reported cases of Lymes disease > in Maryland in 1997, and probably tens of thousands of cases of T2 diabetes. You realize that reported cases are an underestimation by at least 100 fold, right? > With conditions as common as tinnitus and T2 diabetes, it is extremely > likely the two will coexist in many people. I have tinnitus. Did it cause > my T2 diabetes? I don't think so. Virtually all tbd patients will get T and A. Some TBD patients experience sudden, severe hearing loss, too. My then 8 y.o. had severe T and H with tbds, as an anecdote, and they went away upon initiation of antibiotic therapy. Not so with diabetics, though some research did conclude that a low carb diet (the best clinical course for diabetes) helps T; maybe it's not a coincidence. Excess glucose and insulinemia promotes inflammation. I never said all T and A is caused by tbds, just that they are *a* cause. All I ever recommend folks do is get a thorough medical workup that doesn't overlook the possibility. Susan > x-no-archive: yes > [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > You realize that reported cases are an underestimation by at least 100 > fold, right? Yes, with both T2 diabetis and Lymes disease. > Virtually all tbd patients will get T and A. Some TBD patients experience > sudden, severe hearing loss, too. My then 8 y.o. had severe T and H with > tbds, as an anecdote, and they went away upon initiation of antibiotic > therapy. I didn't know that. Where did you discover this? > I never said all T and A is caused by tbds, just that they are *a* cause. > All I ever recommend folks do is get a thorough medical workup that > doesn't overlook the possibility. > > Susan I never said what the cause of tinnitus was or wasn't. I don't think the cause of most tinnitus is known. My point was and is that tinnitus is so common as to be associated with many illnesses even when no relationship is known to exist. Making a list of very common conditions and listing them as causes of tinnitus is, well, couldn't we just take a list of every known malady and say that sometimes the people with these have tinnitus too? If tbd *caused* tinnitus then everyone so infected would have tinnitus. People who have AIDS sometimes die from pneumonia but AIDS doesn't cause pneumonia. People with tbd may be more susceptible to whatever causes tinnitus. > > x-no-archive: yes > > [quoted text clipped - 30 lines] > pneumonia. People with tbd may be more susceptible to whatever causes > tinnitus. To make it even more confusing, I think some cases of tinnitus are idiopathic (without apparent cause). Thus trying to make a definite link of cause and effect can be dicey for many people with T. frank > To make it even more confusing, I think some cases of tinnitus are > idiopathic (without apparent cause). Thus trying to make a definite > link of cause and effect can be dicey for many people with T. Everything is caused by something, but we are often unable to discover what that something is. It still *has* a cause. Susan > x-no-archive: yes > [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > > Susan I just diagnosed last week a patient with a retinal detachment (will likely be a good outcome- I caught it in time for her and the retinal surgeon did a great job in surgery). There was no apparent cause. The patient had no predispositions, no trauma, no anything to have "caused" this. One can then say that the rd (retinal detachment) was caused by a retinal weakness- what caused the retinal weakness?? The retinal weakness was caused by a cellular layer defect- what caused the the retinal cell layer weakness?? And so on. Maybe it can be taken on a metaphysical level. Understanding that a certain condition has no "apparent cause" is different than a condition with no cause. Interesting debate. I do believe that the above patient falls into the latter category (and obviously, that there are conditions that have no cause). frank > I just diagnosed last week a patient with a retinal detachment (will > likely be a good outcome- I caught it in time for her and the retinal [quoted text clipped - 14 lines] > conditions > that have no cause). I think no apparent cause is just that; I don't think we have to get metaphysical to accept that we just aren't as equipped to see/find what's going on. I think the term idiopathic is a neat ICD 9 code, and it means you get to move on to treating the problem while getting that nice relief you feel when you stop banging your head against the wall. ;-) I would suggest that every condition has a cause; whether you or I will ever guess or find it is another matter. Sometimes there's just no point in delving into cause, as long as the remedy is found to be effective, no? Susan > I just diagnosed last week a patient with a retinal detachment (will > likely be a good outcome- I caught it in time for her and the retinal [quoted text clipped - 14 lines] > conditions > that have no cause). Here's a bonus FYI since you're an eyecare professional: : Int Ophthalmol Clin. 1997 Spring;37(2):13-28. Related Articles, Links The ocular manifestations of Lyme disease. Zaidman GW. New York Medical College, Valhalla, USA. LD (with its ocular manifestations) is a worldwide disorder that is increasing in frequency. It is a treatable multisystemic disease that presents in three stages of severity. It can present with unusual forms of conjunctivitis, keratitis, cranial nerve palsies, optic nerve disease, uveitis, vitreitis, and other forms of posterior segment inflammatory disease. A patient with any of these ocular manifestations should be questioned for exposure to an area endemic for LD, tick bites, skin rash, or arthritis. Such patients should undergo serological testing. If the clinical presentation is suggestive of LD, a course of oral antibiotics should be used (unless the patient gives a history of adequate therapy). Topical corticosteroids can be used for anterior segment inflammation. An antibiotic therapeutic trial can be used for posterior segment or neuroophthalmic disease. Systemic corticosteroids without concomitant antibiotics should not be used in the treatment of ocular LD. If ocular LD is discovered and treated early, response to therapy usually is satisfactory. Publication Types: * Review * Review, Tutorial PMID: 9269595 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE] I would suggest that even if you've never thought of looking for Lyme disease as a cause of such cases, they still had a non-idiopathic cause (generic you, not you specifically). I also know of folks for whom the first manifestation was dental pain with no apparent cause. Susan >To make it even more confusing, I think some cases of tinnitus are >idiopathic (without apparent cause). Thus trying to make a definite >link of cause and effect can be dicey for many people with T. If one can accept that muscle tension is a large component of tinnitus, then 99 % of T cases will fall into that category. If one cannot or will not consider that option then research will continue to wonder in useless directions. This clinic in Sweden is the most promising one. He will send you a report of his work if you ask him. http://www.yts.se/english/index.htm Elly's Tinnitus Resources http://eebee.net/ >>To make it even more confusing, I think some cases of tinnitus are >>idiopathic (without apparent cause). Thus trying to make a definite >>link of cause and effect can be dicey for many people with T. > > If one can accept that muscle tension is a large component of > tinnitus, then 99 % of T cases will fall into that category. This is SO TRUE Elly. Once a person decides that their tinnitus was caused by some coexisting condition, they cannot be convinced to look elsewhere. This phenomena is benign except to the extent that it hinders habituation. "Staff" <Staff@Usenet.net> wrote in part: >>>To make it even more confusing, I think some cases of tinnitus are >>>idiopathic (without apparent cause). Thus trying to make a definite [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] >by some coexisting condition, they cannot be convinced to look elsewhere. >This phenomena is benign except to the extent that it hinders habituation. :-D  SignatureJim Chinnis / Warrenton, Virginia, USA Want to discuss Meniere's? See http://groups.yahoo.com/group/MenieresDG > >To make it even more confusing, I think some cases of tinnitus are > >idiopathic (without apparent cause). Thus trying to make a definite [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > He will send you a report of his work if you ask him. > http://www.yts.se/english/index.htm I can accept that muscle tension can be a cause of tinnitus. I can not accept that muscle tension causes 99% of tinnitus. Maybe you can show me the studies that back this up,Elly. If this was indeed true, there are many effective treatments for muscle tension and tinnitus would be a non-factor. frank > Elly's Tinnitus Resources > http://eebee.net/ well, i am sure that all my problems are due to noise exposure. thats why my dizziness is so bad "Christian" <christiangee@hotmail.co.uk> wrote in part: >well, i am sure that all my problems are due to noise exposure. thats >why my dizziness is so bad It is very rare for noise exposure to cause vertigo/dizziness. When it does, it is generally subsequent to severe hearing loss. Have you had severe hearing loss? SignatureJim Chinnis / Warrenton, Virginia, USA Want to discuss Meniere's? See http://groups.yahoo.com/group/MenieresDG On 7/26/05 1:34 AM, in article 1122366861.068986.186110@g43g2000cwa.googlegroups.com, "Christian" <christiangee@hotmail.co.uk> wrote: > well, i am sure that all my problems are due to noise exposure. thats > why my dizziness is so bad I believe it is a mistake to wonder if noise is causing your dizzyness when it is simple to test for it. Once the test is done then you know positively yes or no and can take proper steps and treatment. A simple test is to set up for an eletronystagmogram. This records the jerknog movements of your eyes when you are dizzy. Then apply sound at various volumes. If the volume elicits dizzyness as shown by the ENG then you have a positive diagnosis. If it doesn¹t then again you now what you have. Not knowing the diagnosis is tough in any symptom. If your finger hurts and the x ray shows it's fractured, then you can relax and be at ease. Its tough when the X ray is normal and the finger hurts. >I can accept that muscle tension can be a cause of tinnitus. >I can not accept that muscle tension causes 99% of tinnitus. >Maybe you can show me the studies that back this up,Elly. >If this was indeed true, there are many effective >treatments for muscle tension and tinnitus would be >a non-factor. There are no studies to my knowledge to back this up. The medical fraternity refuses to look in this direction or even to consider it. But I have been reading the internet over 10 years and the majority of symptoms can fall into this category. Assar Bjorn (Sweden) has published a study that explains his treatment. His main focus is the posture of the patient and relaxation techniques. TMJ is always seen to and a few other things. http://www.yts.se/english/treatment.htm His patients only come to him after they have exhausted all other avenues and the treatment is effective. Elly's Tinnitus Resources http://eebee.net/ > >I can accept that muscle tension can be a cause of tinnitus. > >I can not accept that muscle tension causes 99% of tinnitus. [quoted text clipped - 16 lines] > His patients only come to him after they have exhausted all other > avenues and the treatment is effective. You should be clarifying then Elly, that IN YOUR OPINION, 99% of tinnitus is muscle tension related. Don't throw it out as a fact. Your views are just so extremely myopic. Again, I'm puzzled, if T is indeed only muscle tension related, why chiro's and PT's haven't jumped on the bandwagon? It's easy enough to reduce muscle tension. Anybody can do relaxation techniques. And there would be a 99% success rate to boot. Do you wonder why "the medical establishment" has refused to look in this direction? Maybe there's a good reason other than going into a conspiracy theory. frank >I'm puzzled, if T is indeed only muscle tension related, >why chiro's and PT's haven't jumped on the bandwagon? Funny you should say that. I just visited a chiro on Tuesday - not for T - and I mentioned tinnitus to him. He gets quite a few patients with T. He does something to the 2 top vertebrae in the neck and that seems to work. I must get back to him and get more details. Why haven't they jumped on the bandwagon? They don't know there is a badwagon to jump on. Or they know that it is a useless exercise as the medical establishment never believe them. Or the patients are too scared of chiros. Not every chiro knows what to do. There is no standard treatment. I have visited half a dozen or so in the past 10 years and they all do different things. One I went to informed me she had been 'invited' to help with the tinnitus problem. She was no use whatever. Elly's Tinnitus Resources http://eebee.net/ Elly, is there anyone in the US providing treatment similar to this clinic in Sweden? >>To make it even more confusing, I think some cases of tinnitus are >>idiopathic (without apparent cause). Thus trying to make a definite [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] > Elly's Tinnitus Resources > http://eebee.net/ Eric, I don't know that. But you can contact the clinic via the website and have a fruitful email discussion. http://www.yts.se/english/index.htm Elly's Tinnitus Resources http://eebee.net/ >Elly, is there anyone in the US providing treatment similar >to this clinic in Sweden? [quoted text clipped - 15 lines] >> Elly's Tinnitus Resources >> http://eebee.net/ "Staff" <Staff@Usenet.net> wrote in part: >If tbd *caused* tinnitus then everyone so infected would have tinnitus. Tbd in the right host treated/untreated in a particular way causes tinnitus. SignatureJim Chinnis / Warrenton, Virginia, USA Want to discuss Meniere's? See http://groups.yahoo.com/group/MenieresDG > "Staff" <Staff@Usenet.net> wrote in part: > >>If tbd *caused* tinnitus then everyone so infected would have tinnitus. > > Tbd in the right host treated/untreated in a particular way causes > tinnitus. Yes, a very quick search of Medline and even just googling demonstrates that infections, including Lyme, are well documented causes of both hearing loss, Meniere's and tinnitus. Tullio phenomenon has been documented, as well. Susan Susan <nevermind@nomail.com> wrote in part: >x-no-archive: yes > [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] >hearing loss, Meniere's and tinnitus. Tullio phenomenon has been >documented, as well. As long as we are discussing metaphysical causes: Meniere's is by definition idiopathic. That means that some day--when a cause is found--it will either become categorized as something else or its definition will change. SignatureJim Chinnis / Warrenton, Virginia, USA Want to discuss Meniere's? See http://groups.yahoo.com/group/MenieresDG > Yes, with both T2 diabetis and Lymes disease. There isn't any reporting requirement for diabetes cases. If you were to say that the "normal" glucose ranges are too high and that fasting blood glucose misses most diabetics until they're well advance into their disease, I'd agree, as a long undiagnosed type 2 diabetic who developed complications of severe peripheral neuropathy and *still* went undiagnosed. But there are reliable tests for diabetes, and it does become obvious what it is at *some* point and no reliable tests for TBDs. There is a reporting requirement for Lyme yet a minute % ever get reported. >>Virtually all tbd patients will get T and A. Some TBD patients experience >>sudden, severe hearing loss, too. My then 8 y.o. had severe T and H with >>tbds, as an anecdote, and they went away upon initiation of antibiotic >>therapy. > > I didn't know that. Where did you discover this? Discover which? I've posted abstracts about Tulio phenomenon due to Lyme, sudden hearing loss etc... all from Medline. san > I never said what the cause of tinnitus was or wasn't. I don't think the > cause of most tinnitus is known. My point was and is that tinnitus is so > common as to be associated with many illnesses even when no relationship is > known to exist. But neuroborreliosis is well known to cause these symptoms. I'd suggest that any brain/CNS infection can, not only TBDs. > Making a list of very common conditions and listing them as > causes of tinnitus is, well, couldn't we just take a list of every known > malady and say that sometimes the people with these have tinnitus too? The list also presented Meniere's as a cause; I think it's just a related symptom at times. I wasn't rating the quality of the list, just adding a piece of information for folks with tinnitus to consider. The severe intrusive tinnitus that brought me to ast is virtually gone, and often I can't hear it even if I listen for it. That's because I had a treatable infectious cause, same as my child. There may be folks reading this ng who will investigate the possibility and get just as lucky. > If tbd *caused* tinnitus then everyone so infected would have tinnitus. If diabetes causes peripheral neuropathy, by your logic, then everyone with diabetes should get it. And kidney failure, too. The fact is there are hundreds of strains of borrelia, many combinations of coinfections that occur at once, and the degree to which each of us suffers the effects has a lot to do with the uniqueness of our own immune competence and other individual factors. Since many folks are infected by ticks and never become ill and others get sudden heart block and die, some get severe psychiatric manifestations and others get lung complications but few folks get all the same type of tick symptoms, your assertion just doesn't wash with me. > People who have AIDS sometimes die from pneumonia but AIDS doesn't cause > pneumonia. People with tbd may be more susceptible to whatever causes > tinnitus. AIDS does cause disease destroying immune response to a particular type of parasitic pneumonia due to immune compromise. In the case of tbd, folks are susceptible to cranial nerve infection by borrelia. Lyme disease causes tinnitus and hyperacusis whether you feel like being cranky about it or not. Not all T and H is caused by TBDs, but all TBD or other infection related T and H may be easily treated and improved. Susan >> I didn't know that. Where did you discover this? > > Discover which? I've posted abstracts about Tulio phenomenon due to > Lyme, sudden hearing loss etc... all from Medline. Addendum: I know about my kid's T and H because it began during the illness and went away as soon as antibiotics were administered. Correction: > AIDS does cause disease *by* destroying immune response to a particular type > of parasitic pneumonia due to immune compromise. > Susan > x-no-archive: yes > [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] > >> Susan Sorry, Susan, but the cause of either bacterial or viral pneumonia is the bacteria or virus. The disease is then facilitated by the lack of immune response. This explains why people who don't have AIDS can get pneumonia. Whatever causes tinnitus might also be facilitated by tbd and this would explain why people without a tbd can get tinnitus. AIDS isn't the cause of pneumonia. Can you say with certainty that tbd cause tinnitus? Or do they facilitate tinnitus with a different cause? Anyone? > Sorry, Susan, but the cause of either bacterial or viral pneumonia is the > bacteria or virus. The disease is then facilitated by the lack of immune > response. This explains why people who don't have AIDS can get pneumonia. There is such a thing as primary cause and secondary cause. People with AIDS have a very high incidence of a parasitic pneumonia, not ordinary pneumonia that is caused in very high incident rates by AIDS related immune compromise. AIDS causes illnesses that do not occur in infected non-immune compromised hosts. > Whatever causes tinnitus might also be facilitated by tbd and this would > explain why people without a tbd can get tinnitus. AIDS isn't the cause of > pneumonia. Can you say with certainty that tbd cause tinnitus? Or do they > facilitate tinnitus with a different cause? Anyone? Yes, I can say with certainty that TBDs cause tinnitus. So can other infections of the CNS and brain. I understand that your argument with discussing causes is that most folks will never know what caused their tinnitus and will have to rely on habituation. My stance is the same, but only after all potentially treatable causes have been considered. TBDs are among those. Susan > x-no-archive: yes > [quoted text clipped - 25 lines] > > Susan We have learned of several conditions that exacerbate tinnitus, including stress and fatigue. The root cause of most tinnitus remains unknown. Treating conditions that exacerbate tinnitus can help but there is no treatment for the unknown root cause. What we have here is an exercise in semantics. To me, the cause is simply that which causes the condition. To you, apparently, the cause can be that which facilitates or exacerbates the condition. > We have learned of several conditions that exacerbate tinnitus, including > stress and fatigue. Right. The root cause of most tinnitus remains unknown. Right. Undiscovered, perhaps, not looked for, as in the case of infections. > Treating conditions that exacerbate tinnitus can help but there is no > treatment for the unknown root cause. Right. >What we have here is an exercise in > semantics. To me, the cause is simply that which causes the condition. To > you, apparently, the cause can be that which facilitates or exacerbates the > condition. I don't argue semantics, Bill, I consider that arguing for the sake of argument. I'm discussing the peer reviewed scientific findings. Some infections may transiently exacerbate tinnitus. Some infections *cause* deafness (Mumps, Lyme disease, syphilis to name a few), tinnitus, hyperacusis and vertigo. I've provided authoritative citations to back every one of my assertions here. There's a lot more where they came from. This information may help some folks find a cure or effective treatment for their T and H, as it did for me and my child. Susan "Staff" <Staff@Usenet.net> wrote in part: >Can you say with certainty that tbd cause tinnitus? Or do they >facilitate tinnitus with a different cause? Anyone? Quite a variety of pathogens, including those from TBDs, can cause tinnitus by disrupting the function of nerves and nuclei in the auditory system or the ear itself. There are studies showing inflammation and damage to the auditory nerve, as an example. Usually, without an autopsy, the specific damage cannot be seen with current techniques, so "proof" in an individual case is always based on the available evidence. SignatureJim Chinnis / Warrenton, Virginia, USA Want to discuss Meniere's? See http://groups.yahoo.com/group/MenieresDG
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