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Medical Forum / Diseases and Disorders / Tinnitus / March 2005Dr. Nagler has finally found enlightenment!
In Dr. Nagler's website, http://www.tinn.com/homeopathy.html, he states very clearly his own law:"No tinnitus sufferer who found even a small amount of relief ever cared one iota whether or not the treatment which resulted in that relief was based on "science." (Nagler's Law). And he goes on to suggest that:"Doctors who state that they depend strictly on the results of double-blind randomized prospective studies when they make recommendations to patients are either naïve or forgetful." Right on, Dr. Nagler. We all miss your intellectual peformance from time to time. FP > In Dr. Nagler's website, http://www.tinn.com/homeopathy.html, he > states very clearly his own law:"No tinnitus sufferer who found even a > small amount of relief ever cared one iota whether or not the > treatment which resulted in that relief was based on "science." > (Nagler's Law). He hasn't "finally found enlightenment," Francis, that's a very old quote. Yet on this newsgroup, he often insisted on such trials while debating the merits of anything he didn't believe in. Susan Susan <Susan@nothankyou.com> wrote in part: >x-no-archive: yes > [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] >Yet on this newsgroup, he often insisted on such trials while debating >the merits of anything he didn't believe in. I think there's a big difference in a tinnitus sufferer not caring whether something that helped him was scientifically supported or not and in disregarding science. We are each a little different. Sometimes the statistical truths that come from properly done controlled trials are irrelevant to an individual. Unfortunately, we have no way of choosing treatments yet based on our individual differences. I know for sure that Dr. Nagler supports clinical trials of tinnitus treatments, whether or not they are ones he "believe's" in. So do I.  SignatureJim Chinnis / Warrenton, Virginia, USA Want to discuss Meniere's? See http://groups.yahoo.com/group/MenieresDG > I think there's a big difference in a tinnitus sufferer not caring > whether something that helped him was scientifically supported or > not and in disregarding science. Yes, I agree. > We are each a little different. Sometimes the statistical truths > that come from properly done controlled trials are irrelevant to > an individual. Unfortunately, we have no way of choosing > treatments yet based on our individual differences. Well, we each sort of do. Whether anecdote, intuition, alternative practitioner guided, we sometimes choose to experiment with things that haven't been studies and get lucky. My way of choosing has to do with low potential for harm, first of all. That's how my child was cured of chronic tick borne diseases, BTW, after 3 1/5 years of suffering. It was educated/informed experimentation, but only that. Led to empiric trial of atovaquone with zithromax, which worked quickly and completely. > I know for sure that Dr. Nagler supports clinical trials of > tinnitus treatments, whether or not they are ones he "believe's" > in. So do I. I'm sure Dr. Nagler supports trials of any potential dinnitus treatment. My reference had more to do with a battle he chose to engage in with me about the action and uses of Prozac. I had info about it that pretty much all practitioners and those who'd worked with patients knew, yet he claimed that I shouldn't have shared it without double blinded placebo controlled studies backing me. I realize this had more to do with his disposition and attitude about me than his attitude toward tinnitus treatments. Susan Susan <Susan@nothankyou.com> wrote in part: >x-no-archive: yes > [quoted text clipped - 13 lines] >haven't been studies and get lucky. My way of choosing has to do with >low potential for harm, first of all. We have no good way. The studies give statistical guidance, sometimes quite strong. Treatments that have not been studied or that statistically have modest effects are fair game for intuition, etc. And sometimes perseverance pays off. SignatureJim Chinnis / Warrenton, Virginia, USA Want to discuss Meniere's? See http://groups.yahoo.com/group/MenieresDG > We have no good way. The studies give statistical guidance, > sometimes quite strong. Treatments that have not been studied or > that statistically have modest effects are fair game for > intuition, etc. And sometimes perseverance pays off. Very true. K's doctor's and I just kept pushing buttons and combinations until we got lucky. Like playing the slots, with a little educated guessng mixed in. Mostly, the cure came from Dumb Luck, my all time favorite treatment. Susan You wrote:"We are each a little different. Sometimes the statistical truths that come from properly done controlled trials are irrelevant to an individual. Unfortunately, we have no way of choosing treatments yet based on our individual differences. " =============== I very much doubt if there were such a thing as 'statistical _truths_'. There definitely is what we call _a_ 'statistical result' from 'a' study or 'some' studies, and this _result_ does not necessarily represent 'truth'. Against this background, such a result, from 'a' or 'some' studies, is irrelevent to an individual patient not only from a statistical point of view but in particular from the standpoint whether or not a particular treatment carries with itself 'irreversible consequences'. That is to say, if the consequences were either irreversible or hardly reversible, as in the case of taking ATIVAN or COCAINE, this kind of treatment should be avoided as much as possible. At this moment, I really want to go back to that doctor that prescribed Ativan to me and beat the crap of him! FP Yes, I noticed that. He was circulating the double-blind study on gingko to anyone who was willing to listen. I listened too but took the advice of my Cambridge doctor any way and took ginkgo. Frankly, I quite enjoy the 'placebo' effect from gingko even until now. FP
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