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Medical Forum / Diseases and Disorders / Tinnitus / March 2005How to evaluate a 'controlled' study?
If a primitive tribe in Africa were to conduct a double-blind study on whether or not areoplanes could fly, the findings of the study should first of all be sent to the engineers at Boeing. The latter would lose no time in 'flying' to Africa and cross-examine the 'intellectuals' in this primitive tribe as to the findings of their 'controlled' study and the implications of the 'placebo effect'. In particular, the engineers at Boeing would want to know why the methodology of a double-blind study should be preferred in this case to a simple one of observation that planes do fly in the sky. Thus if a doctor(just a doc like mr.XYZ as opposed to Dr. XYZ, ph.d)performed a double-blind 'controlled' study on acupuncture and came to the conclusion that acupuncture is totally useless in treating anything, the first group of people that should be notified are the acupuncturists in the TCM colleges in established places such as UCLA, Harvard...and further away in China and Japan. After all, if both the practitioners and the patients had been entertaining themselves in illusions, it would be a moral duty for this doc to enlighten them. In particular, this doc (most likely from a small town) would have to explain what accounts for the rapid growth of the market demand for acupuncture treatment not just in the Far East but in 'scientific' America and to do so against the 'placebo effect' from his 'controlled' studies. FP > If a primitive tribe in Africa were to conduct a double-blind study on > whether or not areoplanes could fly, the findings of the study should [quoted text clipped - 19 lines] > America and to do so against the 'placebo effect' from his 'controlled' > studies. Francis, I've used acupuncture in the past succesfully for sciatica, sinus infection and headache. I'm a believer in its power. I've read nothing nor have I heard anything but one weak anecdote to suggest that acupuncture works for tinnitus, beyond, perhaps, the relaxation and stress reduction it helps to bring about. Yet studies of acupuncture as well as many anecdotes for other conditions have shown positive results. Susan snipped... > Francis, I've used acupuncture in the past succesfully for sciatica, > sinus infection and headache. I'm a believer in its power. > > I've read nothing nor have I heard anything but one weak anecdote to > suggest that acupuncture works for tinnitus, Do you read Chinese? There is no shortage of liternature in China that talks about the use of acupuncture for treating tinnitus and hearing loss. Now I am telling you my own experience in English. Learn Chinese, and learn to speak it 'properly'. It is about time! FP beyond, perhaps, the > relaxation and stress reduction it helps to bring about. Yet studies > of acupuncture as well as many anecdotes for other conditions have > shown positive results. > > Susan > Do you read Chinese? There is no shortage of liternature in China that > talks about the use of acupuncture for treating tinnitus and hearing [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > > FP Well, no, pardner, ya got me there, I don't read nor speak Chinese. OTOH, I haven't seen translated abstracts of such findings in the biomedical literature as I do with other treatments and conditions. Susan > x-no-archive: yes > [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > OTOH, I haven't seen translated abstracts of such findings in the > biomedical literature as I do with other treatments and conditions. deut6 in alt. has used acupuncture to take care of his tinnitus and has managed to have his t cut into half, according to him. He is living in Maine and his acupuncturist is an English speaking woman living in Maine. Being properly licensed, I suppose, she is in the position to point you to what you need to know. So it is not that hopeless after all! FP ====================== > Susan On 3/29/05 1:23 PM, in article 3atvaaF6cagdrU3@individual.net, "Susan" > x-no-archive: yes > [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] > > Susan I am afraid there is a bad taste in my mouth re the curing of hearing loss by acupuncture. That was all the rage 20 years ago and there was a "shop" on every corner on main street curing hearing loss. Problem was, when the hearing was tested there was no improvement - period. Same with the China claims - no one did an audiogram! When these were done ,there was no change or improvement. In our culture more is spent on Astrology magazines than Science, and the Amytiville Horror books sell more than those of Stephen Hawkins. At least with hearing we can get an objective test, but not with tinnitus. > On 3/29/05 1:23 PM, in article 3atvaaF6cagdrU3@individual.net, "Susan" > [quoted text clipped - 22 lines] > Amytiville Horror books sell more than those of Stephen Hawkins. > At least with hearing we can get an objective test, but not with tinnitus. ...and in the post-Mao China these days, celebrities overshadow scholars! What does that suggest to you? It simply suggests that the astrology and horror books, and naked women pictures...and Feng Shui articles, etc., tend to produce more value than the 'science' books and the 'philosophy' from scholars. Look at the t patients in alt. They had started out by visiting 'scientific' doctors until they became desperate. Who should take the blame? FP <fyfpoon@hotmail.com> wrote in message <Snip> > Look at the t patients in alt. They had started out by visiting > 'scientific' doctors until they became desperate. Who should take the > blame? > > FP Blame? Are we to blame the medical profession because there is no cure for MS? AIDS? Yes, most of us visited doctors either because we wanted some peace and quiet. I certainly don't blame our medical profession because they don't have a cure for the most common tinnitus. Over the years, several ast visitors have tried ginkgo, acupuncture etc. and none have reported a cure. Occasionally one will report modest, temporary relief however we all experience moderate, temporary relief from time-to-time. Such is the nature of tinnitus, Francis, and it makes it impossible for a single individual to associate a treatment with such relief. The anecdotal evidence you have provided for treatments ranging from black beans to herbal infusions provides good evidence of what I am saying. You were very excited about each treatment and reported relief from each, the same fleeting relief common to tinnitus. Sorry, I forgot to address to your hearing thing. Because of the separation between the TCM and the western schools, there is hardly any good communication between the two. While the TCM doctors do their own things, the western-trained doctors in China are simply playing back to you what you teach them. Last year, while I was in the treatment, I met a lady who had all of a sudden lost her hearing, she later on gained some back, but she was going through a mountainous combination of both TCM and western treatments. So one could have hardly determined what caused her partial recovery. What puzzles me is how on earth a double-blind controlled study could be carried out when the assortment of the sample is so difficultly imprecise. FP
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