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Medical Forum / Diseases and Disorders / Tinnitus / March 2005Dissappointed with TRT
Hi, you have probably beaten this topic to death, but what about TRT? Has anyone tried it? Did it help anyone? Did it make the T worse? I am curious about the answer to this question too. Some months ago, a TRT expert in alt suggested me to go to his TRT course for a modest fee. When I told him what I was suffering, his response was that as long as I could be taught to 'habituate' the T, whatever discomfort I was experiencing would have disappeared. Frankly, I don't see how my T would have gone improved had I not gone to have my neck needled by an experienced person. Thus I think TRT is like getting used to what you are feeling and if you were suffering then do so in silence! FP I'm not an expert on TRT, T, needles or anything. But I do know that TRT with a trained audiologist helped me immediately, and within weeks or a couple of months, my T was no longer a problem. That's the important point - my awareness of it completely changed, the loud T disappeared, I have long periods where I'm totally unaware of my T. That is thanks to TRT and sound therapy. I use white noise CDs at night by my beside. Initially I used them all day long, on my computer etc. If you haven't tried TRT, I'd suggest it's unfair to knock it. Maybe you have and it didn't work for you. If that's the case, I feel for you. But TRT does _not_ makes everyone's TRT "disappear" completely, or even help everyone at all. So I'm not sure why the "TRT expert" said that your T discomfort would disappear. That seems like a very extravagant claim. I haven't tried needles, so I can't comment. Maybe they'd help me even more, who knows. But I don't knock needle therapy if it works for you. I definitely do not feel like I am now "suffering in silence." Quite the opposite - I am enjoying my life again, can tolerate complete silence just fine, and do not feel like I'm suffering at all. Naturally I'd prefer not to have T. But I do, and TRT helped me immensely. My 0.02 cents. > I am curious about the answer to this question too. > [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > > FP > I'm not an expert on TRT, T, needles or anything. But I do know that TRT > with a trained audiologist helped me immediately, and within weeks or a [quoted text clipped - 15 lines] > I definitely do not feel like I am now "suffering in silence." Quite the > opposite - I am enjoying my life again, can tolerate complete silence > just fine, and do not feel like I'm suffering at all. Naturally I'd > prefer not to have T. But I do, and TRT helped me immensely. > > My 0.02 cents. ==================== I have not had TRT and thus would only speculate what it contains. I would imagine a good TRT program would encompass a hearing aid by which sound could be masked. I was given the impression that a TRT program means one in which a t patient has to go through all sorts of psychological councilling to forget the T. Could you give me a site where I could take a look at an authentic TRT program? I was suffering from a mix of nerve discomfort and t sound. Though related, these were two distinctly separate and different entities in my case. FP ================= Here is the official TRT site: http://www.tinnitus.org/home/frame/THC1.htm It has lots of helpful information, including about sound therapy. I didn't have a lot of counselling, psychological or otherwise. I had only three sessions altogether. The audiologist gave me material to read, took some questionnaires, measured my T sound and evaluated my hearing. Based on my answers, give me some specific advice. (She has T herself so was very sympathetic.) The counselling wasn't particularly psychological, but did address the issue of worrying about T and gave suggestions for relaxation and focusing on other things in life. She answered some technical/medical questions too, and that was very reassuring. By the time I saw the audiologist, I had already discovered sound-masking CDs (white noise basically, I made the CDs myself with a freeware program and use the CDs by my bedside at night) and my T was getting better. With the TRT help, it's now very manageable. As far as I know only in cases of significant hearing loss do people require hearing aids, and sometimes people are fitted with special white noise generators in cases of severe T and/or hyperacusis. But again, I'm not an expert. A good TRT-trained audiologist could likely answer your questions very quickly. The audiologist I saw has a patient who lives in the wilderness. She wasn't able to get to him for quite a while. He was suffering terribly with T. So she recommended that he go sit by a nearby creek and let the soothing sound of the water act as sound therapy. Apparently it helped him tremendously! You might notice that your T is better in the shower, e.g. Or when there is a soft fan in the background or soft music. That's the basic idea of sound therapy. I hope this helps, Francis. All I can say is that TRT really helped me. > ==================== > I have not had TRT and thus would only speculate what it contains. I [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > FP > ================= ah, i am dissapointed, because i went to an atlanta trained specialist who charged me $450 for "counselling" that was pretty much what one can READ FREE on the TRT site. my T is noise exacerbated and the TRT made it worse while I participated. (for another $2000) additionally, i hear 30 decibels more than normal....no deafness here. oh, and i was charged an extra $85 for the Dr. to look in my ear each time i met with the audiologist. have you ever looked in an ear? you can't see much with a scope. i think TRT is ummmmmm, snake oil? glad to hear it helped someone. prior to this, i had never heard of anyone who was helped. the T is not gone though, is it? Your experience certainly would be disappointing - more than disappointing, it sounds like a ripoff. Very unfortunate. But that doesn't make TRT snake oil. No, my T is not gone. Do you know of any "treatment" that totally removes T for everyone? Tinnitus no longer plays a central role in my life, and 90% of the time, I'm not even aware of it. That is thanks to my own efforts with sound masking and to TRT. I too have excellent hearing, and my T is exacerbated by noise. But TRT didn't aggravate my T. Hope you have better luck with something else. > ah, i am dissapointed, because i went to an atlanta trained specialist > who charged me $450 for "counselling" that was pretty much what one can [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > helped someone. prior to this, i had never heard of anyone who was > helped. the T is not gone though, is it? hi, i already did not concentrate on the T most of the time, but the TRT folks say it cures it. no one has been cured? for me, the most annoying thing is hearing too much. i hear things other folks do not and they irritate me. i do not get "used" to noise. but, since the acupuncture cut my T back, i mostly only notice it while i am watching TV and when waking up, going to sleep, or after blowing my nose. i can hear it right now, but the computer is more annoying. "deut6" <deut6_4_10@yahoo.com> wrote in part: > the >TRT folks say it cures it. The developer of TRT is Pawel Jastreboff. He has published most of the R&D on TRT. He has never claimed that it cures tinnitus. Some unscrupulous clinicians have.  SignatureJim Chinnis / Warrenton, Virginia, USA Want to discuss Meniere's? See http://groups.yahoo.com/group/MenieresDG you wrote:"Do you know of any "treatment" that totally removes T for everyone? ========= No, but i do know ONE patient who was totally cured. Thanks for the link. The closest I get to in terms of sound therapy is the hearing aid that mimics that sound of your t. The cost is about US$3000. According to the doctor, it takes to wear it for about 18 months before the t could be rooted out. FP ====================== > Here is the official TRT site: > http://www.tinnitus.org/home/frame/THC1.htm It has lots of helpful > information, including about sound therapy. > > I didn't have a lot of counselling, psychological or otherwise. I had > only three sessions altogether. The audiologist gave me material to > read, took some questionnaires, measured my T sound and evaluated my > hearing. Based on my answers, give me some specific advice. (She has T > herself so was very sympathetic.) The counselling wasn't particularly > psychological, but did address the issue of worrying about T and gave > suggestions for relaxation and focusing on other things in life. She > answered some technical/medical questions too, and that was very reassuring. > By the time I saw the audiologist, I had already discovered > sound-masking CDs (white noise basically, I made the CDs myself with a > freeware program and use the CDs by my bedside at night) and my T was > getting better. With the TRT help, it's now very manageable. > [quoted text clipped - 26 lines] > > FP > > ================= On 3/26/05 2:50 PM, in article 1111877436.831017.303630@l41g2000cwc.googlegroups.com, "fyfpoon@hotmail.com" > Thanks for the link. The closest I get to in terms of sound therapy is > the hearing aid that mimics that sound of your t. The cost is about > US$3000. According to the doctor, it takes to wear it for about 18 > months before the t could be rooted out. For 20 bucks or less you can have a CD made of your tinnitus sound and use that as a masker. > On 3/26/05 2:50 PM, in article > 1111877436.831017.303630@l41g2000cwc.googlegroups.com, "fyfpoon@hotmail.com" > > For 20 bucks or less you can have a CD made of your tinnitus sound and use > that as a masker. And if you then chop that same sound up and play it in little bursts it works even better... S > On 3/26/05 2:50 PM, in article > 1111877436.831017.303630@l41g2000cwc.googlegroups.com, [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > For 20 bucks or less you can have a CD made of your tinnitus sound and use > that as a masker. Dr. Grossman, Can you point me to a link where I can have such a CD made. And how do I match my tinnitus sound? Thank you. On 3/27/05 9:04 PM, in article 114f42r9m46thc4@corp.supernews.com, "Eric J. Scharer" <scharer@directcon.net> wrote: >> On 3/26/05 2:50 PM, in article >> 1111877436.831017.303630@l41g2000cwc.googlegroups.com, [quoted text clipped - 14 lines] > > Thank you. Any audiologist can identify your tinnitus sound. One of the writers here mentioned a site that provides free ware for this. Or, after you get the t measured, visit Radio Shack, they usually know someone locally that makes these CD's. Any recording studio too. The CD can be used two ways 1. Simple masking 2. "Nerve enhancement". This is a biofeedback method. You put the cd sound into the good ear. Relax. Then lower the volume of the CD. Try to match the lowered volume of the CD from the affected ear. About 20 minutes every other day. Because your body sees what to do right, some persons can lower their tinnitus volume this way. >Can you point me to a link where I can have such a CD made. And how >do I match my tinnitus sound? If your computer is a PC (not a Mac) and if your tinnitus sounds like an audio tone - download the freeware Audio Freq Generator on this page: http://www.haruteq.com/tin-02.htm. It's a breeze for matching your tin freq and logically speaking, you should be able to produce your own CD with it. Good luck, Bart. - Check my most up to date email address at: www.haruteq.com/contact.htm banjo bridges, tabs, stained glass: www.haruteq.com **may your moments of need be met by moments of compassion** On 3/28/05 5:09 AM, in article 424800e8.515021@news.cogeco.ca, "Bart V" <bart@not.here.com> wrote: >> Can you point me to a link where I can have such a CD made. And how >> do I match my tinnitus sound? [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] > > **may your moments of need be met by moments of compassion** Thank you Bart for that information. Dr.Grossan, Next time when you are in China as a visiting professor, try to be a student too in a TCM class. In particular, discuss with the Chinese professors in TCM and find a way to CURE tinnitus. The latter would make use of the medical knowledge in both disciplines. FP On 3/29/05 1:51 PM, in article 1112133091.714532.18570@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com, "fyfpoon@hotmail.com" > Dr.Grossan, > [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > > FP As I previously said, I did investigate the claims of hearing improvement and they were all proven false, when audiograms were used. With hearing we can measure hearing so we have something to go by. With tinnitus it is subjective and there is a good argument to using Bora Bora juice. I'll bet there were 20 shops in Los Angeles claiming hearing cures. These guys were on TV, in Life magazine, etc. They made a fortune. But when the patients were tested - zero. I was talking about tinnitus, not hearing loss. *I* am the testimony to the usefulness of acupuncture for tinnitus. Out of so many doctors I have gone to(almost 20 by now), the things that work are gingko biloba, betahistine, diurectics and acupuncture. Now, I am on only the gingko for blood thinning. I would take it any way even if I didn't have tinnitus. By the way, has you heard of any success story using Bora Bora juice? I could drink some and try. After all, i tried out so many things that are more dangerous than that. FP Here's a list of freeware and shareware sound generators: http://p080.ezboard.com/ftinnitussupport92262frm1.showMessage?topicID=12054.topic I ended up buying Tinnitus Masker Pro, because it generates lots of sounds (white, pink, brown noise etc. plus nature and other sounds) which can be mixed and you can match your T sound quite closely. Then burn the sound to a CD, which you loop so that it plays continuously. I found it easier to burn the CD with the "pro" version. http://www.relaxingsoftware.com/tinmaskerhome.htm There's info on that site about how to actually make the CD. Yes, you can match the "tone" of your T, but my understanding is that you don't' need to match the tone or sound. You just need a sound (could be music, nature sound like waterfall or rain, virtually anything) that you find pleasant, that that it doesn't irritate you and further exacerbate your T. Here's a freeware sound generator for your PC: www.serenesound.com Very handy if you spend a lot of time at your computer. TRT.org says this: "Sound enrichment should not suppress tinnitus (make it inaudible); habituation cannot occur to a sound you cannot hear. When you first turn on your sound source check that you can still hear your tinnitus, and that is has’t altered or changed." And this: "It is essential that any sound enrichment never produces any aversion, dislike or results in increased arousal. The purpose of TRT is to reduce the aversive reaction to tinnitus or external sound. Introducing a new sound into the environment, which produces an aversive reaction, will simply make matters worse. It may take some time and experimentation to find the sound that you like, and that produces a relaxed feeling." I am not a doctor or expert. This is just what I did and it worked for me. Proceed advisedly. > Dr. Grossman, > > Can you point me to a link where I can have such a CD made. And how > do I match my tinnitus sound? > > Thank you. Francis, Here's the direct link to the sound enrichment info: http://www.tinnitus.org/home/frame/Handout%204_sound%20enrich_oct%202002.pdf You can also click to it from the Tinnitus.org link "Sound Enrichment." I'm not sure where the $3000 US hearing aid info came from. I believe the use of ear devices is dependent on the severity of one's T. I certainly wouldn't spend that kind of money unless I was guaranteed a "cure" or at least very substantial relief. As I said earlier, I made white noise CDs that mimic my T from freeware, and they work fine for me. Your experience may differ. I believe there's at least one well-regarded TRT audiologist in Vancouver. http://www.soundidears.com/index.html > Thanks for the link. The closest I get to in terms of sound therapy is > the hearing aid that mimics that sound of your t. The cost is about [quoted text clipped - 103 lines] >>>FP >>>================= If you want a guarantee for a cure or treatment medicine you are dreaming. There is only one guarantee in medicine. > Francis, > Here's the direct link to the sound enrichment info: [quoted text clipped - 119 lines] >>>>FP >>>>================= Speaking of sound enrichment Bed Bath and Beyond is having a sale on "personal" water falls, gurgling water and all for only 14 dollars. Its on their web site too. Ideal for natural sound enrichment and quite relaxing. Its the kind that Hazel recommends. You wrote:"I believe there's at least one well-regarded TRT audiologist in Vancouver. http://www.soundidears.com/index.html..." That is the one I went to! The doctor did not even bother to find out how uncomfortable i was feeling with a cluster of moving nerve in my head, she just prescribed me the expensive hearing aids. If i had not been needled on my neck by my acupuncturist, i would have continued to suffer from the nerve discomfort. Now, you understand why we have so little faith with 'specialists'. FP I don't undertstand anyone else's trip but my own, Francis. I'm sorry you had that experience. And I give up - there doesn't seem any way to satisfy you. Good luck working out your problems. > You wrote:"I believe there's at least one well-regarded TRT audiologist > in [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > > FP > I don't undertstand anyone else's trip but my own, Francis. > I'm sorry you had that experience. And I give up - there doesn't seem > any way to satisfy you. I have already found a way with which I am quite satisfied, though it could always be better.. FP ======================== Your post subject says that you're disappointed with TRT. So I presume you've tried it with a competent TRT-trained audiologist and it didn't work for you. As for me, the complete opposite - sound-masking worked almost instantly for me, and over a short time (weeks, maybe a couple of months) my awareness of the T completely dropped off. It is now a minor irritant from time to time, mostly not even on the radar. Certain things make me more aware of the T, or make the T worse, whichever way you choose to look at it. But that never lasts long and quickly fades into the background. TRT absolutely didn't make my T worse. It helped me a great deal to get reliable information about T from an audiologist and to stop scaring myself into thinking it would go on forever and get worse continually. That isn't to say that it works for everyone. But then, what does? Best of luck and I hope this is helpful. > Hi, you have probably beaten this topic to death, but what about TRT? > Has anyone tried it? Did it help anyone? Did it make the T worse? "deut6" <deut6_4_10@yahoo.com> wrote in part: >Hi, you have probably beaten this topic to death, but what about TRT? >Has anyone tried it? Did it help anyone? Did it make the T worse? Since you have been disappointed with TRT, why are you interested in what happened for other people? Some did very well and others were not helped. SignatureJim Chinnis / Warrenton, Virginia, USA Want to discuss Meniere's? See http://groups.yahoo.com/group/MenieresDG
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