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Medical Forum / Diseases and Disorders / Tinnitus / March 2005

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Tinnitus and MRI----help!!

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Darth Jeff - 12 Mar 2005 06:48 GMT
I have had Tinnitus for about 10 years and gradually got used to it.
About 4 days ago I had to have an MRI of my sternum. I knew it would be
loud and brought the best plugs I could buy..MAX 34. Yet my Tinnitus
has nearly doubled after that MRI! I know my earplugs had a pretty good
fit as they were hard to pull out and I got that suction sound when
they pulled out. I am just going crazy here. I was in a 1 Tesla MRI
full tube. Is this just coincidence? Has anyone had this happen? I am
guessing the MRI is about 110db? Does that sound right? Figure I only
get 20db from my plugs that still is not bad db exposure. I honestly
cant live with it the way it is. Maybe there is just some slight
accoustical trauma and 4 days is not enough for it to go back to
normal? I just want my Tinnitus back to where it was where I could
easily mask it with my AC on and my air purifier. Neither of those mask
it now. I really had a bad feeling about this MRI. And of course the
doctor just looks at the film for 5 seconds and says yep you will get
better. If he only knew what this has caused. Or maybe it is just
coincidence. But I have to believe people with Tinnitus get MRI's.
Thankyou for comments.
Elly Byrne - 12 Mar 2005 19:27 GMT
How did you feel during the MRI. Was it claustrophobic? Were you
tense, apprehensive, scared? Did your neck/shoulder muscles tense up
and contract?

It is most likely due to the muscle tension, Dentistry can have the
same effect.

It will probably wear off and go away. If it doesn't please find a
trrusted therapist and have a back massage. This will get the tension
out of the muscles.

Elly's Tinnitus Resources
http://eebee.net/

>I have had Tinnitus for about 10 years and gradually got used to it.
>About 4 days ago I had to have an MRI of my sternum. I knew it would be
[quoted text clipped - 14 lines]
>coincidence. But I have to believe people with Tinnitus get MRI's.
>Thankyou for comments.
Darth Jeff - 12 Mar 2005 20:29 GMT
Thankyou for the response. No it was not all that claustrophobic though
I was a little tense at times thinking I need to escape. My muscles
never tense up actually, even under the worse of stress. Do you really
think it will wear off? It has only been a week. Can the magnetic field
mess with your tinnitus? I keep thinking back and the noise I was
hearing was not deafening at all. So I must have had descent protection
from my 34 rated earplugs. Still---what is going on with me?
Skycloud - 12 Mar 2005 22:37 GMT
> Thankyou for the response. No it was not all that claustrophobic though
> I was a little tense at times thinking I need to escape. My muscles
[quoted text clipped - 3 lines]
> hearing was not deafening at all. So I must have had descent protection
> from my 34 rated earplugs. Still---what is going on with me?

In some cases, tinnitus seems to be associated with excessive activity in
parts of the brain and its level (both 'actual' and the 'annoyance factor')
can be conditioned by what other jobs the brain is doing at the time.
Maybe your MRI upset the previous balance for a while - who knows ?

Is there any sort of downward trend establishing itself - even slight ?  If
so, this will likely continue and when you latch on that it's actually
slowly getting better you'll relax more, making it better still and creating
a virtuous circle.

In your situation I would give this process a 'helping hand' by using a
small portable amplifier with earphones, or hearing aids. The increased
sound from the outside world will then tend to drown the tinnitus. Your
brain could get used to hearing it less and its activity patterrn perhaps
revert to normal...

Having said that, there are  different types of tinnitus and the 'treatment'
I suggest could even have the opposite effect to that intended (Ben?  ;-)

But IMO everything's worth a try when you're in a crisis situation.  And
this works well for me.

Good luck,

Steve O
Darth Jeff - 12 Mar 2005 23:38 GMT
Thanks! What I dont understand is I believe I was not exposed to
anything over 85db with my plugs. I know what 85db sounds like and I
was quite "comfortable" in the MRI noise wise with my plugs. Maybe this
is a coincidence then.
Skycloud - 13 Mar 2005 11:10 GMT
> Thanks! What I dont understand is I believe I was not exposed to
> anything over 85db with my plugs. I know what 85db sounds like and I
> was quite "comfortable" in the MRI noise wise with my plugs. Maybe this
> is a coincidence then.

My guess is the noise wasn't the issue here, more likely it was the intense
magnetic fields.

Steve O
Darth Jeff - 13 Mar 2005 22:52 GMT
Magnetic fields can cause or exacerbate Tinnitus? Has any research been
done on this? Do you think it is permanant? It seems I am getting very
slight relief. My usual noise is still there and the post MRI spike now
goes away briefly but then comes back. I get my results of the MRI on
thursday and they better be worth it!! The doctor better say "we found
this tumor just in time!" or something like that. If all is normal then
I would put myself through this for nothing. I really hope I get
better. I have to believe people with Tinnitus have gotten MRIs before.
Skycloud - 14 Mar 2005 01:31 GMT
> Magnetic fields can cause or exacerbate Tinnitus? Has any research been
> done on this?

Yes. Take a look at this
http://mentalhealth.about.com/cs/depression/a/tmstin903.htm

Try googling "magnetic stimulation tinnitus" and you'll find other links.
You'll see the aim of the research is to _reduce_ tinnitus using this
method.

Remember I'm not a doctor. I speak from relative ignorance. But if there is
any connection between magnetic brain stimulation and tinnitus I guess there
must at least be a possibility the effect could work either way.

Do you think it is permanant? It seems I am getting very
> slight relief. My usual noise is still there and the post MRI spike now
> goes away briefly but then comes back.

That sounds like the start of progress to me.  Look out for further
improvement.  ;-)

I get my results of the MRI on
> thursday and they better be worth it!! The doctor better say "we found
> this tumor just in time!" or something like that. If all is normal then
> I would put myself through this for nothing. I really hope I get
> better. I have to believe people with Tinnitus have gotten MRIs before.

I'm sure many have. Be sure to have a full and frank talk with your doctor.
I expect he or she will put your fears to rest. And do keep us posted on how
it goes.

Steve O
Jim Chinnis - 14 Mar 2005 01:37 GMT
"Skycloud" <me@privacy.com> wrote in part:

>Try googling "magnetic stimulation tinnitus" and you'll find other links.
>You'll see the aim of the research is to _reduce_ tinnitus using this
>method.

This is not the same type of MRI as used in current medical practice.
Signature

Jim Chinnis / Warrenton, Virginia, USA
Want to discuss Meniere's? See http://groups.yahoo.com/group/MenieresDG

Darth Jeff - 14 Mar 2005 03:59 GMT
I hope so. What do you think my prognosis will be?
Elly Byrne - 14 Mar 2005 20:35 GMT
>Magnetic fields can cause or exacerbate Tinnitus? Has any research been
>done on this? Do you think it is permanant? It seems I am getting very
[quoted text clipped - 4 lines]
>I would put myself through this for nothing. I really hope I get
>better. I have to believe people with Tinnitus have gotten MRIs before.

Lots of people have had MRIs when they had tinnitus.
Lots of people put themselves through agony thinking that something
awful would show up.

It never did.
The most common result is "There is nothing serious here".

Elly's Tinnitus Resources
http://eebee.net/
Darth Jeff - 14 Mar 2005 20:51 GMT
Hmmm,,,,That is good news. I just hope my Tinnitus calms down soon from
it. If I  ever have to get an MRI again I am going to search for a
place that has the new quiet ones. Kind of defeats the purpose to get a
test for Tinnitus which causes it to flare up.
Bill - 14 Mar 2005 23:36 GMT
>>Magnetic fields can cause or exacerbate Tinnitus? Has any research been
>>done on this? Do you think it is permanant? It seems I am getting very
[quoted text clipped - 14 lines]
> Elly's Tinnitus Resources
> http://eebee.net/

Hopefully the MRI won't indicate that a tumor is causing your tinnitus.
Like Elly says, in most cases no tumor is found.  If this is the situation,
we can help you get used to the noise, probably to such an extent that it
will no longer be a factor in your life.

Bill
Darth Jeff - 15 Mar 2005 01:52 GMT
Well I have no tumor. Also my hearing is perfect. And my OEA(I think)
where they test the echo response to the ear cillia is fine. I am very
careful with my ears. They could not really explain how I could have
Tinnitus without having any hearing loss or any indications. In fact
they said my hearing was perfect---and the predictor for hearing loss
showed aboslutlye nothing. Also since my Tinnitus is center of my head
and not one side that also rules out a tumor and I have no signs of
Meniors. They said maybe just some change in my body happened 10 years
ago. So that is good. Right now I just want my Tinnitus to go back down
to the level before the MRI. I just do not understand how an MRI can
affect my Tinnitus even when I wore very good ear plugs. Anyone have
any ideas? The audiologist said I could just be imagining the higher
noise. Ideas? Thanks Everyone!
Bill - 15 Mar 2005 04:03 GMT
> Well I have no tumor. Also my hearing is perfect. And my OEA(I think)
> where they test the echo response to the ear cillia is fine. I am very
[quoted text clipped - 9 lines]
> any ideas? The audiologist said I could just be imagining the higher
> noise. Ideas? Thanks Everyone!

Great news, Jeff.  Your audiologist was probably close to correct.  The MRI
and your concern that there might be a tumor most likely caused you to
concentrate on the tinnitus sound and when we do that, it seems especially
loud.  I didn't hear mine at all until I started composing this response to
your post but now it seems terribly loud.  Shortly after I leave this news
group, and start thinking about something else, I will quit noticing it.
This process, commonly called "habituation" comes easily to some and is
difficult for others.  In my case it took about a year and a half.  If you
want some suggestions that will help this process along, just ask.
Darth Jeff - 15 Mar 2005 06:24 GMT
Sure I will take any suggestions. I am curious how I can have Tinnitus
without being exposed to loud noises. I had it starting about 10 years
ago.
Bill - 15 Mar 2005 18:02 GMT
> Sure I will take any suggestions. I am curious how I can have Tinnitus
> without being exposed to loud noises. I had it starting about 10 years
> ago.

Sure wish I could tell you what caused your tinnitus, Jeff.  I really don't
know what caused mine either but I tend to think it was a lifetime of
auditory abuse with chainsaws, shotguns, etc.  That's a guess based on the
temporary tinnitus that commonly occurs after such exposure.

We can focus our attention just as we can focus a camera.  The petals and
stamen, for example, can be clear and sharp while the foliage is a dull
blur.   They key to habituating tinnitus, I think, lies is focusing our
attention on other auditory stimulus.  Here is what works for most:

1.  Have your ENT exclude serious causes, specifically the acoustic neuroma,
to set your mind at ease in this regard.  You've done this and can now relax
in the knowledge that your tinnitus isn't a symptom of something likely to
do more harm.

2.  Get a good night's sleep every night.  Nothing seems more beneficial to
the tinnitus sufferer than quality sleep.  Paradoxically, short naps have
the opposite effect for many.

3.  Surround yourself with intelligent sound at a comfortable level.  Focus
your attention on that intelligence, thereby pushing the tinnitus into the
background.  To get a good night's sleep I set my radio to BBC America's
interesting world news timed to off in an hour.  I focus on the news instead
of my tinnitus and am lulled to sleep, usually well before the radio
automatically shuts off.

4.  Enjoy an active lifestyle concentrating on anything that interests you
while avoiding your tinnitus.  Have you ever noticed how loud it suddenly
becomes when someone ask you about it or when you bring your attention to
this news group?

Something else happened to me coincident with the onset of tinnitus.  I lost
my ability to discriminate between two intelligent sources of sound.  If the
radio is on, and someone is speaking to me, I can't make sense out of
either.  At first this caused stress and frustration.  I managed that by
explaining my situation to those close to me so they would understand why I
always turn the radio or TV down when we begin conversing.  This occurs
despite the fact that my hearing tests "normal".

There is no cure for tinnitus but there are ways to deal with it
effectively.

Bill
Eric J. Scharer - 16 Mar 2005 03:54 GMT
I can usually fall asleep fairly quickly, but when I get up in the middle
of the night, I have a lot of difficulty getting back to sleep. Any
suggestions? I think I feel pressured to fall back to sleep so I can
not be exhausted at work. It's kind of a self fulfilling prophecy.

Eric

> Sure wish I could tell you what caused your tinnitus, Jeff.  I really
> don't know what caused mine either but I tend to think it was a lifetime
[quoted text clipped - 39 lines]
>
> Bill
fyfpoon@hotmail.com - 17 Mar 2005 05:07 GMT
Do you take DUXARIL?  It is a med prescribed by many ENT doctors for
tinnitus and causes insomnia to some patients.
===========================
> I can usually fall asleep fairly quickly, but when I get up in the middle
> of the night, I have a lot of difficulty getting back to sleep. Any
[quoted text clipped - 14 lines]
> >
> > 1.  Have your ENT exclude serious causes, specifically the acoustic

> > neuroma, to set your mind at ease in this regard.  You've done this and
> > can now relax in the knowledge that your tinnitus isn't a symptom of
[quoted text clipped - 28 lines]
> >
> > Bill
jganders - 13 Mar 2005 19:37 GMT
Elly,
Been reading your 'neck massage' recommendations for months.  Still
havent seen any postings from others that corroborate the effectiveness
of this simple approach. If there have been postings, and I've missed
them, perhaps you could post links to the original postings on your web
site?
I'm sure anyone can benefit from a massage. I've never had one. But
still, seems like there should people who can support it as a T
treatment.
Regards,
Jim

> How did you feel during the MRI. Was it claustrophobic? Were you
> tense, apprehensive, scared? Did your neck/shoulder muscles tense up
[quoted text clipped - 28 lines]
> >coincidence. But I have to believe people with Tinnitus get MRI's.
> >Thankyou for comments.
Elly Byrne - 13 Mar 2005 20:21 GMT
Neck massages.
People either ignore the postings and don't say so.
OR
They find it helpful but they do not report back.

I partake in other forums and it has taken me a long time to figure
out that people do not always come back and say that the info was
helpful. Often they do not even say Thank You. Acually I have decided
that if the conversation stops dead they have found the help they
wanted and gone on their way.

I recommend the massage to find an initial relief.
And then to have confirmation that there is tension there.
If people do not recognise that the tension is there then they will
not follow up any further treatment. But the massage is not a cure in
itself.

I had tension in my neck and shoulders for a long time. One particular
therapist accused me of being a type A personality - which I am not. I
am a very laid back person.

But the point is that the tension was there even though I did not feel
it.

Elly's Tinnitus Resources
http://eebee.net/

>Elly,
>Been reading your 'neck massage' recommendations for months.  Still
[quoted text clipped - 46 lines]
>> >coincidence. But I have to believe people with Tinnitus get MRI's.
>> >Thankyou for comments.
Jim Chinnis - 14 Mar 2005 01:35 GMT
Elly Byrne <elly@eebee.net.noway> wrote in part:

>Neck massages.
>People either ignore the postings and don't say so.
>OR
>They find it helpful but they do not report back.

Elly, you are leaving out what may be the most likely event: People read
your postings, go out and get treatment for their muscular tension, and
find that it makes no difference.

>I partake in other forums and it has taken me a long time to figure
>out that people do not always come back and say that the info was
>helpful. Often they do not even say Thank You. Acually I have decided
>that if the conversation stops dead they have found the help they
>wanted and gone on their way.

Quite possibly, they are less ill-mannered than you think, and they
simply write off your advice as just like so many other suggestions that
proved of no help.
Signature

Jim Chinnis / Warrenton, Virginia, USA
Want to discuss Meniere's? See http://groups.yahoo.com/group/MenieresDG

Skycloud - 14 Mar 2005 01:49 GMT
"Jim Chinnis" <jchinnis@SPAMalum.mit.edu> wrote in message
news:c5n931pbi8bpr4npd2hp4rubksfau8ku01@4ax.com...
> "Skycloud" <me@privacy.com> wrote in part:
>
[quoted text clipped - 3 lines]
>
> This is not the same type of MRI as used in current medical practice.

Can you expand on this Jim ?  For my part I'd like to learn how the magnetic
field exposure differs between the two techniques (frequency, waveform,
energy, location, focus, etc.)  Is there a link out there you can point me
to?

Thanks,

Steve
Jim Chinnis - 14 Mar 2005 01:57 GMT
"Skycloud" <me@privacy.com> wrote in part:

>"Jim Chinnis" <jchinnis@SPAMalum.mit.edu> wrote in message
>news:c5n931pbi8bpr4npd2hp4rubksfau8ku01@4ax.com...
[quoted text clipped - 14 lines]
>
>Steve

Sorry--no links. But I know that the research reported uses a magnetic
field that varies much more rapidly than does the field in a standard
MRI. A regular MRI has an essentially constant field that goes off and
on with each picture, rising and falling fairly slowly in comparison, if
I recall correctly. That would be much less likely to generate
measurable electric currents within brain tissue.
Signature

Jim Chinnis / Warrenton, Virginia, USA
Want to discuss Meniere's? See http://groups.yahoo.com/group/MenieresDG

Skycloud - 14 Mar 2005 02:29 GMT
> "Skycloud" <me@privacy.com> wrote in part:
>
[quoted text clipped - 7 lines]
> Jim Chinnis / Warrenton, Virginia, USA
> Want to discuss Meniere's? See http://groups.yahoo.com/group/MenieresDG

Okay Jim thanks, that's useful. And sorry from me for posting in the wrong
branch of this thread!

Steve
Elly Byrne - 15 Mar 2005 04:49 GMT
>Elly Byrne <elly@eebee.net.noway> wrote in part:
>
[quoted text clipped - 6 lines]
>your postings, go out and get treatment for their muscular tension, and
>find that it makes no difference.

That is another possibility. But you notice they do not come back and
say so.

Muscular treatment is not a cure for tinnitus. It is only a starting
point towards relief.

>>I partake in other forums and it has taken me a long time to figure
>>out that people do not always come back and say that the info was
>>helpful. Often they do not even say Thank You. Acually I have decided
>>that if the conversation stops dead they have found the help they
>>wanted and gone on their way.

I also partake in a few 'Windows' help forums. If an offered solution
does not work they questioner soon complains.
If the conversation stops dead I now assume the solution worked.

>Quite possibly, they are less ill-mannered than you think, and they
>simply write off your advice as just like so many other suggestions that
>proved of no help.

That is also possible. But the same could be said of other suggested
treatments.

I once asked a medical professional in this group if muscular tension
had ever been tested in their clinic.
That professional never answered and disappeared from ast for some
weeks.

Elly's Tinnitus Resources
http://eebee.net/
Jim Chinnis - 15 Mar 2005 19:33 GMT
Elly Byrne <elly@eebee.net.noway> wrote in part:

>I once asked a medical professional in this group if muscular tension
>had ever been tested in their clinic.
>That professional never answered and disappeared from ast for some
>weeks.

Are you suggesting there's a cover-up going on?
Signature

Jim Chinnis / Warrenton, Virginia, USA
Want to discuss Meniere's? See http://groups.yahoo.com/group/MenieresDG

Elly Byrne - 15 Mar 2005 20:32 GMT
>Elly Byrne <elly@eebee.net.noway> wrote in part:
>
[quoted text clipped - 4 lines]
>
>Are you suggesting there's a cover-up going on?

No only avoidance.

Elly's Tinnitus Resources
http://eebee.net/
Murray Grossan - 15 Mar 2005 07:38 GMT
On 3/13/05 10:37 AM, in article
1110739027.739796.32920@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com, "jganders"
<jamesanderson@yahoo.com> wrote:

> Elly,
> Been reading your 'neck massage' recommendations for months.  Still
[quoted text clipped - 7 lines]
> Regards,
> Jim

Actually there are instances of Tinnitus that can be aggrevated by cervical
and other muscle conditions and helped by their correction. Problem is,
Which tinnitus is it?
Its almost like some bacteria will respond to penicillin and some won't.
We don"t have the ability to decide in advance which patient falls into the
cervical / Tmj category so its a good idea to check that out and clear it in
case that one is in that category.
For example Tinnitus after whiplash is common and may respond to physical
therapy.
Another problem is that there is physical therapy and then there is "heat
packs". Obviously heat packs don't work.
Its part of treating the patient as a whole, hypertension is important, etc.
.
In other words, clearing the cervical or tmj will work for some, but it
takes carefull dx to figure out which one, and it also requires correct
management.
Darth Jeff - 15 Mar 2005 15:58 GMT
Hmm,,,,,that is very interesting. Mentioning TMJ,,,one doctor said I
definitely had it. And one said I definitely did not.
Jim Chinnis - 15 Mar 2005 19:39 GMT
"Darth Jeff" <darthjeff@gmail.com> wrote in part:

>Hmm,,,,,that is very interesting. Mentioning TMJ,,,one doctor said I
>definitely had it. And one said I definitely did not.

TMJ isn't a disease that you have or don't have. It's a joint (two actually) that
we are all born with. After a while, everyone has a bit of wear on the TMJs, some
more than others. Some people have wear due to particular things they do, such as
clenching or grinding their teeth, especially during sleep. Some kinds of TMJ wear
or some kinds of jaw muscle overactivity or asymmetric strengthening can cause
symptoms of TMJ trouble.
Signature

Jim Chinnis / Warrenton, Virginia, USA
Want to discuss Meniere's? See http://groups.yahoo.com/group/MenieresDG

darkblue5750@duskmail.com - 22 Mar 2005 16:32 GMT
hydromed@adelphia.net wrote:
> On 3/13/05 10:37 AM, in article
> 1110739027.739796.32920@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com, "jganders"
[quoted text clipped - 15 lines]
> takes carefull dx to figure out which one, and it also requires correct
> management.

Thank you

darkblue5750@duskmail.com
fyfpoon@hotmail.com - 15 Mar 2005 21:45 GMT
I had my spine relaxed from time to time and it helped a bit.

FP
Darth Jeff - 16 Mar 2005 00:55 GMT
I will try those muscle relaxation. But I still am very curious if just
by getting an MRI if that could cause my tinnitus to increase? I was
wearing earplugs---with a good fit. The noise definitely did not sound
over 85db. I had 33NRR plugs in with a pretty good fit I think. But
that is the only thing I can think of to correspond to my suddent
increase tinitus---a little louder and the pitch much higher. Am I
crazy? Did I f.ck myself more by getting an MRI? I hope not. Stupid
broken rib--I should have taken the pain if I know my Tinnitus would
get worse.
fyfpoon@hotmail.com - 23 Mar 2005 19:38 GMT
It might have been a nerve thing...

FP
ali - 27 Mar 2005 21:09 GMT
I also am suffering with increased Tinnitus sound since March 15th, when
I had two MRIs & an MRA, one after the other, totalling 1-1/2 hours
approx.

Noone told me about the banging noise of the MRI & how earplugs were
needed.  The Neurologist who ordered the tests didn't know about my
Tinnitus, a non-stop sound like steam.  I didn't think at the time how
this noise would affect my T.
After the tests, my T. is louder than ever (VERY depressing),  & I
haven't heard about the results yet...I guess I'm supposed to call the
Neurologist for the results, but haven't as yet. Must force myself to
call him tomorrow. Will mention the T., & see what he says.

The only positive (?) thing about the nightmare MRI experience:  my
chronic insomnia is gone, instead of 3-4 hours nightly, I'm sleeping 6-7
hours nightly, & napping during the afternoons for the first time.
Drinking more coffee during day to stay awake,
I believe that years ago, taking Benadryl nightly to sleep, was the
source of my Tinnitus.  Read a list of meds that can cause T., & there
it was.
Thanks, Jeff, for your post...I'm so glad that I Googled Tinnitus &
found this group.

Hope you're better, Alice
Darth Jeff - 28 Mar 2005 05:54 GMT
So you did not wear earplugs during the MRI? Email and we can compare
notes and our progress at getting back to normal.

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