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Medical Forum / Diseases and Disorders / Tinnitus / February 2007Tinnitus = NOT an Earproblem
F.Y.I. Tinnitys is a BRAIN problem. The Dutch (who else) have succesfully introduced a new type of "brain sergery" resulting in the cure of the problem. 8 patients got (brain) operated , 6 of them were almost fully cured. Read teh nws on the WEB. Stay alive my friends. Personally, I have never thought it was an ear problem, even though I have some hearing loss in both ears. But BRAIN surgery??? Whatever do they do to one? The results weren't that good either? Six "almost" fully cured, and what happened to the other two - die on the table? I don't think so :( Ben > F.Y.I. > [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > > Stay alive my friends. Tinnitus is NOT a brain problem. It is a muscular/skeletal problem. http://eebee.net/TinnitusIsaPainintheNeck.shtml Elly's Tinnitus Resources http://eebee.net/ >F.Y.I. > [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > >Stay alive my friends. No it isn't Elly, at least not always. I admire your perseverence with your theories but some of these are bordering on being dangerous as they mislead people. To suggest that noise induced tinnitus is due to a muscular problem is proposterous. > Tinnitus is NOT a brain problem. > It is a muscular/skeletal problem. [quoted text clipped - 15 lines] >> >>Stay alive my friends. Very few people have true noise induced tinnitus. Most people THINK they do. Elly's Tinnitus Resources http://eebee.net/ >No it isn't Elly, at least not always. I admire your perseverence with your >theories but some of these are bordering on being dangerous as they mislead [quoted text clipped - 20 lines] >>> >>>Stay alive my friends. And how exactly do you know that Elly ?? I KNOW I have noise induced t. Can even tell you the date I got it. YC > Very few people have true noise induced tinnitus. Most people THINK > they do. [quoted text clipped - 29 lines] >>>> >>>>Stay alive my friends. The clinic in Sweden, who treat hundreds of patients - probably the worst kind - have found that all their tinnitus patients improve after their treatment. Even those who say theirs was noise induced. Think about how the body might react to a loud noise. Doesn't it tense up and want to cringe away? Think about it. Elly's Tinnitus Resources http://eebee.net/ >And how exactly do you know that Elly ?? > [quoted text clipped - 35 lines] >>>>> >>>>>Stay alive my friends. Elly, I think you have truly gone to far. I have noised induced tinnitus due to my carelessness. We have the link to your website. Please just let it be. > Very few people have true noise induced tinnitus. Most people THINK > they do. [quoted text clipped - 29 lines] >>>> >>>>Stay alive my friends. > F.Y.I. > [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > 8 patients got (brain) operated , 6 of them were almost fully > cured. Can dyslexia also be cured with "brain sergery"? RS >> F.Y.I. >> [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > > RS .os kniht t'nod I  Signature*´¨) . ·´ ¸.·*¨) ¸.·*¨) ¸.·*¨) (¸.·´ (¸.*´ ¸.·´ `·-* * Patty * `·-* I am sure the nerve-typed tinnitus is caused by the nerve, at least that is why my doctorS have been telling me. But i am not sure if I would go for a brain surgery. There are better and safer ways, I believe. I used acupuncture. I am talking about obtaining treatments from people who know what they are doing but not necessarily from the 'chinatown university' graduates in San Francisco. FP > I am sure the nerve-typed tinnitus is caused by the nerve, at least > that is why my doctorS have been telling me. But i am not sure if I > would go for a brain surgery. There are better and safer ways, I > believe. I used acupuncture. I am talking about obtaining treatments > from people who know what they are doing but not necessarily from the > 'chinatown university' graduates in San Francisco. Acupuncture is quackery. If it has any kind of effect, it's purely due to the placebo effect. For more information about this, look here: http://www.skepdic.com/acupunc.html RS > > I am sure the nerve-typed tinnitus is caused by the nerve, at least > > that is why my doctorS have been telling me. But i am not sure if I [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > > http://www.skepdic.com/acupunc.html Forget about this or that micky mouse 'controlled' experiments or studies! I went through it and I know what it is, it does not work for everyone and every kind of t though. FP > RS acupuncture not only cut my T in half, but also stopped uterine hemhorraging that the gyn wanted to stop with devastating drugs and/or surgery. i can still have children and am neither made into a man nor mutilated. additionally, acupuncture is relatively cheap. my ENT visits cost megabucks and got me nowhere. Good, you should then recommend this acupuncturist to others in this group so that they could try, though nothing works for everybody. I had been suffering from nerve discomfort until I met a good acupuncturist here in Vancouver and then another one in China. I posted her name and website here before. Here in Vancouver, acupuncture is about to be accepted as part of the conventional medical treatment taken in by provincial medical plans. The 'conventional' doctors are not very happy about it for two reasons. First, this would intrude into their own monopolized turf. Secondly, the realization that the Chinese already applied acupuncture to treat all that difficult ailments about 3000 years ago while their ancestors were drinking animal blood and wearing animal skins is a blow to their egoes. FP the acupuncturist i went to is Dianna Sainte in southern Maine; but there are quite a few excellent acupuncturists in my area. i think one might shop around locally and also look for one that uses TCM (traditional Chinese medicine). Shiatsu massage is also very balancing. it would be a good thing to treat yourself to. The one I went to in China gave me an acupuncture treatment each time together with 6 days of herb tea for the price of US$15. For that price, you can't even get into the door of a fancy ENT doctor in Hong Kong. My TCM doctor in China figured, after trying me for various kinds of medicines, that 'a' part of my T might be due to some nerve in the head that had been damaged by an emotional turmoil of FEAR that once occurred to me. He categorizes emotional turmoil into various kinds and various kinds of herbs are used to treat various kinds of emotional turmoil. Thus the medicine used for FEAR is different from the one used for ANXIETY. At the same time, a 'modern' doctor in China during the onset of my T gave me vitamin B in order to bandage the damaged nerve but to no avail. After 3 months, I stopped it. On 3/24/05 12:56 PM, in article 1111697765.920440.156590@l41g2000cwc.googlegroups.com, "fyfpoon@hotmail.com" > The one I went to in China gave me an acupuncture treatment each time > together with 6 days of herb tea for the price of US$15. For that [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > the onset of my T gave me vitamin B in order to bandage the damaged > nerve but to no avail. After 3 months, I stopped it. Come on, you were once damaged by fear??? Name me one person on earth that hasn't had a fear experience some time in their lives. Everyone is tossing the term nerve damage around. Tinnitus is often caused by pathology in the Cochlea. You can have a pressure on the nerve to cause hearing loss but that is - fortunately rare. Then there are the "brakes" higher up in the brain that "fail". And then there is the cortex. And there is the limbic system that can kick in too. There's probably more that hasn't been identified yet, but to say that the tinnitus is "nerve damage" is like saying he has a disability without specifying location, type, etc. This is important because usually we can treat the inner ear located in the cochlea. And if it is pressure on the nerve, we need to fix it. > On 3/24/05 12:56 PM, in article > 1111697765.920440.156590@l41g2000cwc.googlegroups.com, "fyfpoon@hotmail.com" [quoted text clipped - 17 lines] > Name me one person on earth that hasn't had a fear experience some time in > their lives. Practically *all* of us have had the experience of FEAR but not all have experienced t as a result. It would depend on the 'degree' of FEAR and how the individual reacts to it. Thus your reply, albeit appreciated, does not suffice to discredit the claim that FEAR _could_, though not definitively for all people, lead to tinnitus. > Everyone is tossing the term nerve damage around. Tinnitus is often caused > by pathology in the Cochlea. You can have a pressure on the nerve to cause [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > This is important because usually we can treat the inner ear located in the > cochlea. And if it is pressure on the nerve, we need to fix it. Well, Dr., that is what you learnt from your medical text at school but other doctors could have been trained from other disciplines. FEAR, according to the TCM doctors, could damage the kidney, and our kidney is closely related to our cochlea. Thus fear could lead to damage in cochlea. This kind of damage is not necessarily visible to our naked eyes, but is expressed in the form of our cochlea being less efficient for what it usually does. And T is the symptom of such a damage. I once quoted a study here that was done by the American doctors at Boystown Hospital in Nebraska or Alaska..I forget. The study further confirmed what the Chinese doctors discovered thousands of years ago of the relationship between cochlea and kidney. When an acupuncture needle is properly inserted into a meridian, it tends to stimulate the secretion of a chemical used for healing the nerve! This whole healing process may not be detected by any scientific instrument known, and is not visible to our naked eyes but is a philosophy behind its operation. FP >> On 3/24/05 12:56 PM, in article >> 1111697765.920440.156590@l41g2000cwc.googlegroups.com, [quoted text clipped - 60 lines] > > FP In your case, Francis, I'd have to conclude tinnitus results from being full of crap. hmmmm, enjoy your Western Pharmakia while you still have your organs in tact. :)) hey Francis? should we buy stock in Clonopin? On 3/25/05 8:36 PM, in article 936eaee8.0503252036.7353961b@posting.google.com, "francispoon" <fyfpoon@hotmail.com> wrote: >> On 3/24/05 12:56 PM, in article >> 1111697765.920440.156590@l41g2000cwc.googlegroups.com, "fyfpoon@hotmail.com" [quoted text clipped - 52 lines] > > FP Philosophy is interesting but if you are going to help persons who are ill, you do need to understand cause and effect and the ability to replicate other's findings. In one study, they had medical students who knew NOTHING about acupuncture administer the needles at the acupuncture clinic. Seems that they got about the same number of cures as the "masters" who were the experts. Faith, expectation, etc are all helpful, but patients expect better from their healers. By the way I lecture in China and do know about "non - traditional " methods. I did speak to doctors and patients. Typical patient: Question? Are you having pain after your surgery? Answer: The only time I have pain is when they come around for acupuncture and stick those needles into me. This is what I heard with my own ears from many patients at Shanghi and other hospitals. Physics is also philosopy! After all, what are the available scientific instruments that could detect the creation of the universe? Philosophy in medical science in the manner I cited could be proven by way of deduction. For example, the excessive consumption of pan-fried food could lead some people to end up with pimples popping up and/or constipation, and the use of beer could help 'neutralize' it. While the theory behind is that of a yin and yan balance, that balance is not visible to our naked eyes or the energy field of that balance cannot be detected by any scientific instrument. However, the symptoms and the reaction of the body in relation to the kinds of food taken into the body demonstrate a relationship. And repeated discovery of this relationship in the same individual or the increased discovery of this relationship among a group is evidence of a cause and effect relationship as opposed to its being just 'correlational' in nature. THAT IS PHILOSOPHY! I would be interested in reading the 'controlled' study you cited. I want to know the place, the professors in charge, the hospital, the number of patients involved, and the kind of ills that the acupuncture operation was meant to achieve. And I would also be interested in other studies that produce results to the contrary. By just saying "in one study", it is not enough to vitiate what a kind of medical practice is capable of treating. And by quoting what in your definition of a "typical patient" response is NO empirical evidence acceptable to the medical establishment of any advanced country. And by saying "I heard" in regard to the pain sensation from acupuncture, it is no proof whether or not this particular kind of medical practice named acupuncture is capable of treating a certain ill. On the other hand, let me give you a more authentic 'controlled' study. While i was going through the oxygen chamber in China, out of 4 patients there that went for acupuncture treatment for their tinnitus, 2 spoke highly of it, 1 poorly and one so so. And that is what "I heard", and from the point of view of a t patient, what I heard is no less empirical or authoritative in relation to the validity of acupuncture in treating a particular ill than your imprecise and loose quotation of "in one study" and "what I heard". What you heard was an indication of pain by the patient but not an indication of what acupuncture is capable of. As a scientist, one should have focused on the latter, while as a nurse, the former! FP > Physics is also philosopy! After all, what are the available > scientific instruments that could detect the creation of the universe? [quoted text clipped - 38 lines] > > FP What? > > Physics is also philosopy! After all, what are the available > > scientific instruments that could detect the creation of the universe? [quoted text clipped - 40 lines] > > > What? Francis apparently doesn't understand simple medical principles such as the "placebo effect" or "cause and effect". Oh well. frank drfrank21@gmail.com wrote in part: >Francis apparently doesn't understand simple medical principles >such as the "placebo effect" or "cause and effect". > >Oh well. > >frank That's why we have kill files. SignatureJim Chinnis / Warrenton, Virginia, USA Want to discuss Meniere's? See http://groups.yahoo.com/group/MenieresDG dr. frank, Just wait until you are able to prove that the methodology of one kind of study should be preferred to another kind in relation to a particular treatment vs a particular ill, you then could open up your month. FP =========================================== > > > Physics is also philosopy! After all, what are the available > > > scientific instruments that could detect the creation of the [quoted text clipped - 71 lines] > > frank On 3/27/05 6:27 PM, in article 936eaee8.0503271827.28eaa327@posting.google.com, "francispoon" <fyfpoon@hotmail.com> wrote: > dr. frank, > > Just wait until you are able to prove that the methodology of one kind > of study should be preferred to another kind in relation to a > particular treatment vs a particular ill, you then could open up your > month. Well, where our patient's lives depend on it, we use something called the scientific method. It is taught in some schools. The link you showed me is reminiscient of a 'term paper' writen by the undergraduate students in the US colleges. ======================================== > > I am sure the nerve-typed tinnitus is caused by the nerve, at least > > that is why my doctorS have been telling me. But i am not sure if I [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] > > RS I think that to say with such certainty that Tinnitus has nothing to do with the ears is absurd. It has many causes, so trying to make such absolute statements is likely to be false. Indeed, nerves and brain have a lot to do with many, if not most cases, but until the cause is clearly understood, which it is not, I take your claim with a bit of salt. But even if T was purely from the ears, the cure could be found in the brain or nerves anyways, since sound is ultimately perceived in the brain, regardless of where it comes from. I have seen many studies making such great claims, but only when I hear it consistently from multiple sources would I risk brain surgery. However, I am sure that are some people who have T so bad that maybe the risk would be worth it to them. Due to medical mispractice lawsuits here in the US, I am sure that they would really have to sure the surgery is safe here to do it. If there was a surgery that had 90% chance of curing T, but has 1% chance of killing the patient, then it would probably be outlawed. I would not personally gamble on this, but if my T got unbearable enough, maybe a chance would be worth it. And even if the surgery is too risky, it still is encouraging to me. Suppose there was a cure that I was sure would cure my T, but I cound not afford it. Still it would be encouraging to me to know that there hope coming. All this being said, I share some of the skepticism of the others until I hear more sucess stories from other sources. > F.Y.I. > [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > > Stay alive my friends. On 2/19/07 9:32 AM, in article ssmdnZJeC9AdQkTYnZ2dnUVZ_uCinZ2d@insightbb.com, "Mr. Y" <ndbanerjeevideos@insightbb.com> wrote: > I think that to say with such certainty that Tinnitus has nothing to do with > the ears is absurd. It has many causes, so trying to make such absolute [quoted text clipped - 36 lines] >> >> Stay alive my friends. Don't expect anyone else to be doing this brain procedure soon. You have a major problem A. It is HUGE surgery B. Only one doctor has done it C. In the past all kinds of surgery were done for many conditions - asthma, arthritis, blood disorders, etc etc and we don't do those any more for various reasons including that the sham operation worked just as well. > On 2/19/07 9:32 AM, in article > ssmdnZJeC9AdQkTYnZ2dnUVZ_uCinZ2d@insightbb.com, "Mr. Y" [quoted text clipped - 48 lines] > arthritis, blood disorders, etc etc and we don't do those any more for > various reasons including that the sham operation worked just as well. Well said Mr. Grossan , and the two that it didn't help might still be on life support. Jamffer
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