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Medical Forum / Diseases and Disorders / Tinnitus / November 2004T story
A woman at work told me that when she wa sin New Zealand she had an ear problem, she said she was dizzy all the tiem and her ear was making noises all the time. Her DR did the usual MRI's etc, fiund nothing, still wasnt happy, so she decided to go in, exploratory surgery, she told the girl that if she found what she thought she's find the girl would wake up with an incision behind her ear, s I guess the Dr suspected acoustic neuroma, anywa, she wke up and immediatley felt for an incision and there wasnt one. The Dr found a nodule on her mastoid bone, similar to a pimple I guess, shaved it off, and voila, problem gone !! If only all Drs were that persistant, I wonder how many T sufferers could be living with it unnecasarrily( spelling) Man that peaves me off. If I had a DR offer t go in my ear and explore, wuld say GO FOR IT !! I mentioned this story to my Dr, he said yes Jenny, but thats not what your problem is. Yet he couldnt actually say what is causing my T... I'm frustrated. Jenny >A woman at work told me that when she wa sin New Zealand she had an ear > problem, she said she was dizzy all the tiem and her ear was making noises [quoted text clipped - 21 lines] > > Jenny I'm sorry Jenny, but this story isn't believable at all. I can't imagine any surgeon who would do an exploratory surgery for an acoustic neuroma without firm evidence on MRI with gadolinium enhancement. This is major surgery and can be destructive of inner ear structures. At the very least, the surgeon either would have to go through the ear (translabyrinthine approach), destroying the inner ear, or would have to drill out a major portion of the bone behind the ear (retrosigmoid approach) or above the ear (middle cranial fossa approach). Except for the trans lab approach, the surgery is done along with a neurosurgeon. Two responsible surgeons agreeing to this is even more improbable. I can't say why the T was gone after the surgery. Unfortunately, more often than not we can't determine what causes T except that there have been changes to inner ear structures, hair cells, that produce "noise". And these changes can occur even without hearing loss. HNG hmm..Im just repeating what she told me..she just said the surgeon wanted to go in, she never said mastoid bone, she just said, a nodule on some bone in her ear...she's possibly not the most credible person I know..maybe the DR did see something on her MRI who knows. Dont be sorry Howard, you actually made me feel a bit better, she had me thinking there was something easy to be done, but noone wuld do it..( if that makes sense) Howard Gutnick wrote in message ... >>A woman at work told me that when she wa sin New Zealand she had an ear >> problem, she said she was dizzy all the tiem and her ear was making noises [quoted text clipped - 39 lines] > >HNG "Howard Gutnick" <hgutnick@hotmail.com> wrote in part: >>A woman at work told me that when she wa sin New Zealand she had an ear >> problem, she said she was dizzy all the tiem and her ear was making noises [quoted text clipped - 39 lines] > >HNG There is *possibly* weak evidence from at least one study (the sham shunt experiment a while back) that makes me wonder if *Meniere's* patients might not somehow get a non-specific benefit from the various surgeries that are performed. In that study, the (originally presented) results showed that patients did just as well when a bit of bone was removed instead of an endolymphatic shunt being placed. It also *looked like* the sham surgery group did as well as the shunt group. I guess there are several possible explanations. Among them are that the anesthesia or cortisol spike or something else from the procedures actually helped Meniere's or that the benefit was only placebo effect, probably due to selecting patients during bad periods of their episodic illness. Even in the sham surgery experient with Meniere's, I don't recall that baseline tinnitus improved.  SignatureJim Chinnis / Warrenton, Virginia, USA Want to discuss Meniere's? See http://groups.yahoo.com/group/MenieresDG "Jennifer Bell" <starwood@iprimus.com.au> wrote in message snipped... > I mentioned this story to my Dr, he said yes Jenny, but thats not what your > problem is. Yet he couldnt actually say what is causing my T... I'm > frustrated. Ok...we have top-notched experts in alt. You could go and visit Murray and then consult Jim Chinnis. If these two top-notched experts of the world failed to help you, you might want to make reference of my own experience as follows: (1)Sleep without a pillow. You don't need a prescription to do that. (2)Go and visit a chiropractor to have your neck muscles relaxed. You don't need a prescription to do that (3)Take one tablet of gingko biloba with breakfast daily. Try to use the ones made from dried leaf but not extract. Just go to a large organic shop and ask the shop-keeper to tell you which brand being in greastest demand. Once again, You don't need a prescription to do that. The possibility that you will get a stroke or whatever unpleasant outcome by taking only ONE gingko pill a day is extremely remote. Try it for 5-7 days. If you felt uncomfortable with it, just stop it. (4)You mentioned about 'brain ringing' in your other post. Well, I had been experiencing the same thing until I met this lady at www.yongsheng.ca. Days ago, I ran into a website from the Peking College of TCM (Traditional Chinese Medicine). Somewhere, it has an explanation of tinnitus. Amist the explanation, something like the following is writen: " The T patient, during a period of time in his or her life, went through experiences of turmoil, tension, prolonged anxiety, pressure, fears, insecurity, etc.. As a result, the auditory system lost its ability to function properly and in doing so 'releases electricity' from time to time without control. The releasing of electricity is perceived by the ears in the form of zzeeeeeeeeeee or a high pitched note. The method to treat this phenomenon is named _one needle through_, an acupuncture operation, by which the releasing of electricity could be short-circuited! Many T patients have been found to have got either partially or completely relief..." So, Jenny, go to visit the best experts in the west first. They are supposed to be 'scientific' doctors. Only after they fail to take care of you, then you follow my advice to try out what I have gone through. The doctors I went to are also 'scientific' doctors except that they operate with a discipline which the former group of doctors has absolutely no clue whatsoever. FP > Jenny > "Jennifer Bell" <starwood@iprimus.com.au> wrote in message > snipped... >>I mentioned this story to my Dr, he said yes Jenny, but thats not what your >>problem is. Yet he couldnt actually say what is causing my T... I'm >>frustrated. > Ok...we have top-notched experts in alt. You could go and visit > Murray and then consult Jim Chinnis. If these two top-notched experts > of the world failed to help you, you might want to make reference of > my own experience as follows: > (1)Sleep without a pillow. You don't need a prescription to do that. > (2)Go and visit a chiropractor to have your neck muscles relaxed. You [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > had been experiencing the same thing until I met this lady at > www.yongsheng.ca. > Days ago, I ran into a website from the Peking College of TCM > (Traditional Chinese Medicine). Somewhere, it has an explanation of > tinnitus. Amist the explanation, something like the following is > writen: > " > The T patient, during a period of time in his or her life, went [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > electricity could be short-circuited! Many T patients have been found > to have got either partially or completely relief..." > So, Jenny, go to visit the best experts in the west first. They are > supposed to be 'scientific' doctors. Only after they fail to take > care of you, then you follow my advice to try out what I have gone > through. The doctors I went to are also 'scientific' doctors except > that they operate with a discipline which the former group of doctors > has absolutely no clue whatsoever. > FP My tinnitus is not psychiatric. It was caused by loud noise over time. I don't accept the suggestion that turmoil, tension, prolonged anxiety, pressure, fears, or insecurity cause tinnitus. No to spooky action at a distance. No to chiropractic manipulation of the neck vertebrae. No to gratuitous and frivilous use of blood thinners. Who you calling crazy? :-) scp >>Jenny > > "Jennifer Bell" <starwood@iprimus.com.au> wrote in message > > snipped... [quoted text clipped - 57 lines] > > Who you calling crazy? But that is just the cause of *your* tinnitus, not that of everybody's. If what I said does not apply to you, then it does not apply to you. There is no universal cause of tinnitus. FP :-) > scp > > >>Jenny Francis I dont kinow what else to try..I have been to so many different GPS, 2 ents an osteopath, 2 naturopath, a spiritual DR..I have had bowen therapy,Reiki, I am now trying the mouth splint, I have been going to the chiro once a week for the last 2 months and I have been to a neurosurgeon and a neurologist, plus had 2 mris and one CT scan....the next thing is a chinese DR...I am sooo depressed but I just can't give up. francispoon wrote in message <936eaee8.0411041055.5dfb1e4@posting.google.com>... >"Jennifer Bell" <starwood@iprimus.com.au> wrote in message >snipped... [quoted text clipped - 49 lines] > >> Jenny Oh and I have tried ginko..I did get relief after about 6 months..I have also ona DRS advice taken cold and flu tabs for a while, and been on steroids and serc and stemitil. >Francis I dont kinow what else to try..I have been to so many different GPS, >2 ents an osteopath, 2 naturopath, a spiritual DR..I have had bowen [quoted text clipped - 58 lines] >> >>> Jenny not 6 months on ginko sorry, 6 weeks >Oh and I have tried ginko..I did get relief after about 6 months..I have >also ona DRS advice taken cold and flu tabs for a while, and been on [quoted text clipped - 62 lines] >>> >>>> Jenny >Francis I dont kinow what else to try..I have been to so many different GPS, >2 ents an osteopath, 2 naturopath, a spiritual DR..I have had bowen [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] >chinese DR...I am sooo depressed but I just can't give up. >francispoon wrote in message Why not write to DR Bjorne on http://www.yts.se/english/index.htm He has answers no one else has given you yet. Tinnitus is a pain in the neck Elly's Tinnitus Resources http://eebee.net/ > Francis I dont kinow what else to try..I have been to so many different GPS, > 2 ents an osteopath, 2 naturopath, a spiritual DR..I have had bowen > therapy,Reiki, I am now trying the mouth splint, I have been going to the > chiro once a week for the last 2 months and I have been to a neurosurgeon > and a neurologist, plus had 2 mris and one CT scan....the next thing is a > chinese DR...I am sooo depressed but I just can't give up. You are in exactly the same boat that i was about a year ago. It was maddening! Oftentimes when one gets no answer, one goes randomly for trials and errors but that is all one could do at that time. Most doctors, including ENTs, don't know how to treat tinnitus. I am no doctor but could share with you only my experiences. However, I would suggest you to make an appointment with Murray in this group. The reason why I recommend him is because he has been around listening to all sorts of weird descriptions of T, which is a form of continuing education. You may try many other doctors and could not find a single one that knows how to do it. So you might as well go to one that knows. If you could not find anyone to help you, you might as well follow what i have done as follows: (1)sleep with a 'low' pillow. (2)continue to visit a chiro once a week to have your neck twisted. (3)take a GINGKO pill daily with breakfast. Try to get one made from leaf but not extracts. And take one BETAHISTINE after dinner each evening. (4)enrol in an exercise program so that you could sleep better at night. Stick to this simple program for 3 months at least. In the meanwhile, go for an _experienced_ acupuncturist for a treatment. See if any of your friends could refer to you someone with whom they have already had good experiences. Not anyone could do the job properly. You could visit the one i have visited at www.yongsheng.ca. So hang on, Jenny. Don't give up...but relax as much as you can! With time, sooner or later it would come to a less unpleasant end. FP > francispoon wrote in message > <936eaee8.0411041055.5dfb1e4@posting.google.com>... [quoted text clipped - 52 lines] > > > >> Jenny The tinnitus has brought on so much other stuff, I know I have depression, it has worsened my anxiety, I have suicidal thoughts and I have turned into a hypochondriac..I am mentally and physically exhausted. francispoon wrote in message <936eaee8.0411052200.f673c7b@posting.google.com>... >> Francis I dont kinow what else to try..I have been to so many different GPS, >> 2 ents an osteopath, 2 naturopath, a spiritual DR..I have had bowen [quoted text clipped - 93 lines] >> > >> >> Jenny > The tinnitus has brought on so much other stuff, I know I have depression, > it has worsened my anxiety, I have suicidal thoughts and I have turned > into > a hypochondriac..I am mentally and physically exhausted. Jennifer, When my tinnitus started some years ago, it caused many of the same feelings you are experiencing. These continued until I finally accepted my condition for what it was and learned to live with it. Today, it is as loud as ever but never bothers me. In fact, I go for days at a time completely unaware of the ongoing sound. If you lived next to a railway track, after a while you would habituate that sound. The train would pass making all sorts of noise but it wouldn't bother you in the least. After a while, it might even pass without your being aware of it. As one tries one "treatment" after another, one must focus on the sound in order to determine whether or not a particular treatment is working. Because the tinnitus sound often varies in pitch, intensity and perceived origin from day-to-day and even hour-by-hour, treatments may seem to help when they don't, or exacerbate the problem when they don't. Long-term studies of various treatments have failed to find *any* that will cure tinnitus. It is my opinion that experimenting with various treatments prolongs habituation because instead of learning to ignore the sound one learns to concentrate on it, thereby leading to the feeling you are experiencing. Bill I agree with you Bill. it is just that I had started to accept it a few months baCK, THEN i SAW a naturopath who said it was curable and he had 100% success rate...I had Bowen therapy with him and I went on ginko, things got a bit better but not fixed. It however gave me hope and started me searching again. My main thing that keeps me going is the fact that the first year it was unbearable because it buzzed all the time, the buzzing has now stopped. It now hisses mainly all the time..with the occasional rrr..rrrr...rrr sound. Sometimes I can just be talking to someone and this huge noise like BOOOOOOOOPPPPPPP will suddenly fill my whole head, t is so loud and unexpected I almost hit the deck. What Im basicaLLY saying is my noises are so different everyday I can't habituate. If it was just ringing I could, because my other ear rings quite often and whereas I dont like it, it could become bearable..the noises in my other are not bearable and I dont think they ever will be. I do however understand what you are saying, but I have friends telling me not to give up. It's so hard. Jenny Bill wrote in message ... >> The tinnitus has brought on so much other stuff, I know I have depression, >> it has worsened my anxiety, I have suicidal thoughts and I have turned [quoted text clipped - 27 lines] > >Bill > I agree with you Bill. it is just that I had started to accept it a few > months baCK, THEN i SAW a naturopath who said it was curable and he had 100% [quoted text clipped - 19 lines] > > Jenny (snip of Bill's kind advice.) Jenny, your tinnitus will not hurt you. Really. It can cause you no harm. You need to believe me when I say this, and trust me. You may believe life will be unbearable with this horrible noise going on in your ears, especially when it changes and startles you, but you will probably habituate over time. I've suffered tinnitus for over 40 years, and it has gotten progressively louder and stranger as I get older. I rarely hear it, like Bill, and, when as you so well describe, it goes, in my case, BEEEEEEEEPPPPPPPPPPPPP so loudly it distracts me, I think to myself, "Now, that's loud, and different, and interesting", and then I seem to ignore it and go about my business. I've convinced myself I am not going to be hurt by any old noise in my head, not matter how obnoxious and distressing it seems. I'm not only telling you to not give up, I'm telling you there is hope, you will feel better, you will slowly and actually lose interest in the tinnitus, and you'll be surprised when you realize you don't hear it any more except when you listen for it, or it goes BOOOOOOOOOOOPPPPPP, but you don't care about that any more. Really. Many on this list have favorite theories about tinnitus. There is no concensus, except perhaps the role stress plays in our perception of tinnitus. I personally believe when we are anxious and stressed, we hear and listen to our tinnitus more than when we are at ease and away from stress. In my case, when I addressed the anxiety issue and resolved that, my tinnitus seemed to fade into the background. It's gone, but very loud, but I don't care. I promise you, Jenny, you'll feel better. There is hope. Best wishes, scp thankyou, but after 2 years, don't you think I should have habituated? >> I agree with you Bill. it is just that I had started to accept it a few >> months baCK, THEN i SAW a naturopath who said it was curable and he had 100% [quoted text clipped - 58 lines] > >scp > thankyou, but after 2 years, don't you think I should have habituated? Anxiety is caused by tinnitus, that is true, but they are separate things. Address the anxiety you feel, seek out its genesis, work on controlling it, understanding it, and when you feel less anxious you'll be better prepared to ignore your tinnitus. Jenny, this "habituation" we talk about is an odd thing. In my case, my tinnitus is very loud. Were I 20 years old again, and just beginning to hear my tinnitus, I would be distraught. But, I've lived with this for 40 years, and it is true that it no longer bothers me. Especially, I feel absolutely no anxiety because I have tinnitus. When I am in anxious situations, anxiety caused by other things, I seem to be more aware of the noise in my head. I truely believe the perception, that we are consciously aware of the noise, of tinnitus seems that it is louder when we are stressed. Yes, tinnitus causes stress, but stress comes from our entire lives. All I can tell you is that when I personally took control of the stress in my life, my tinnitus faded in irrelevance. You are fighting very hard. I advise you to stop fighting so hard. Remember, tinnitus can't hurt you. Get on with your life, your business, your day by day activities, get rest and exercise, eat right, think positively. There is no pill, no exercise, no therapy except time. Again, I point to myself. 40 and more years of ever-increasing noise in my head, and throughout those 40 years the condition has been of less and less concern to me and doesn't affect my daily life in one bit. I don't like the noise, but it is unimportant and doesn't threaten me. In fact, I rarely hear it anymore, despite the fact it roars. Habituation is very funny. It's a matter of learning NOT to LISTEN to your tinnitus. I wish I had an easy answer, but time is your friend here. As time passes, you'll feel better, I promise. scp (snip) > thankyou, but after 2 years, don't you think I should have habituated? Jennifer, having ruled out an acoustic neuroma, there are a few things you can do to help habituate your tinnitus: 1. Accept that it isn't going to do you any physical harm. 2. Accept that there isn't going to go away. 3. Know that many, many others are living with it. 4. Stay active. 5. Avoid silence but protect your ears with cheap foam plugs if you go to loud concerts, night clubs, work with power tools, etc. 6. Involve yourself with mentally stimulating activities that draw your attention away from your tinnitus. 7. Go to sleep listening to a radio or television set equipped with a sleep timer. Listen to something that holds your attention while you drift off. 8. Understand that when you do think about your tinnitus, such as when you visit this UseNet group, you will hear it but that the sound will go away as soon as you busy yourself with something else. 9. Become a news freak. Keep the radio on all day and listen to that when you aren't otherwise occupied. 10. Quit trying to "treat" it as this will only serve to keep you focused on it. 11. Spend a month in Bali soaking-up the sun. Be sure to get a massage on the beach each morning, drink a little beer and hike around Ubud taking in the arts. :-) Bill I love Bale, most relaxing place on earth...havent been there since the bombings though :-( But Ubud would be ok! Bill wrote in message ... >> thankyou, but after 2 years, don't you think I should have habituated? > [quoted text clipped - 33 lines] > >Bill I think Jenny is at the stage of where I was about a year ago. Aside from suffering from noise in the ear and in the head, I was suffering from somatic discomfort in the head too. I was also told to habituate but to do so was like suffering in silence. My somatic discomfort went away with treatment. Now i could habituate or get more used to it. Prior to that, I don't think I would have been able to do that. Jenny could be suffering from a complex or a mix. In my view, only her doctor, who has thoroughly examined her, is in the position to tell her to give up looking for treatment. FP ======================================= > > thankyou, but after 2 years, don't you think I should have habituated? > [quoted text clipped - 33 lines] > > Bill > thankyou, but after 2 years, don't you think I should have habituated? All T patients habituate, either willingly or out of no choice. In my experience,one could habituate better when there is an appropriate medical treatment along with it. So while you habituate like everyone else, you should not give up looking for a medical treatment that could *enhance* your habituation process. The important thing is: if you found something which has worked for you, then stick to it. FP ======================================== > >> I agree with you Bill. it is just that I had started to accept it a few > >> months baCK, THEN i SAW a naturopath who said it was curable and he had [quoted text clipped - 65 lines] > > > >scp Although I agree with a lot you say Bill, I have had T for 14 years next January, and no way have I *ever* got used to it! It simply isn't a sound like living near a railway track, wearing a tight bra (which I don't :)) , or wearing tight shoes etc. It is a noise of its own which in my case, is impossible to cover up because it's so high-pitched. I do live with it - just! But I am always aware of it. Ben > When my tinnitus started some years ago, it caused many of the same feelings > you are experiencing. These continued until I finally accepted my condition [quoted text clipped - 20 lines] > > Bill >> When my tinnitus started some years ago, it caused many of the same >> feelings you are experiencing. These continued until I finally accepted [quoted text clipped - 20 lines] >> >> Bill > Although I agree with a lot you say Bill, I have had T for 14 years next > January, and no way have I *ever* got used to it! It simply isn't a sound [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > > Ben Ditto, Ben. I hear mine all the time as well. I don't think about it as much as I once did...but, even that isn't easy for me. I used to live near a railway track and I did 'get used to it'. But, this sound (the T) is constant whereas the train only came through the town every 8 hours or so. If I only heard the T once every 8 hours for app. 4 minutes each time, then, perhaps it could be compared. *´¨) . ·´ ¸.·*¨) ¸.·*¨) ¸.·*¨) (¸.·´ (¸.*´ ¸.·´ `·-* * Patty * `·-* >The tinnitus has brought on so much other stuff, I know I have depression, >it has worsened my anxiety, I have suicidal thoughts and I have turned into >a hypochondriac..I am mentally and physically exhausted. I don't think you're a hypochondriac, though I can well understand why you'd be mentally and physically exhausted. Something *is* wrong, you're not imagining it. You want your peace and quiet back. You may have to settle for not noticing it, though. Susan Jenny, Could you recall *how* your tinnitus arose? What were the circumstances in which your tinnitus surfaced? Did you take on any new drug such as diuretics? Did you go through an emotional upheaval? Did your doctor know about whatever emotional tremor that you went through lately? FP ================================== > A woman at work told me that when she wa sin New Zealand she had an ear > problem, she said she was dizzy all the tiem and her ear was making noises [quoted text clipped - 16 lines] > > Jenny I was going through possibly the most stressful period of my life...working two jobs and training for my cert 3 in aged care at the same time, I knew I was pushing my body to the limit but I ket going..my tinnitus was in my mind 100% caused by stress. francispoon wrote in message <936eaee8.0411041225.1b1c0037@posting.google.com>... >Jenny, > [quoted text clipped - 27 lines] >> >> Jenny > I was going through possibly the most stressful period of my life...working > two jobs and training for my cert 3 in aged care at the same time, I knew I > was pushing my body to the limit but I ket going..my tinnitus was in my mind > 100% caused by stress. OK...sounds familiar. So have you told your doctor about this cause you have suspected? What is his reaction? You mentioned that you did get some release after taking gingko for about 6 weeks. Are you still taking it? If you had found something that works, stick to it for a longer period. So from now on, work on the *stress* part. My T surfaced under circumstances of turmoils and stress. I had tried so many kinds of methods until(1)I took gingko pills and betahistine and they made my t softened, and (2)I went for an acupuncture operation at www.yongsheng.ca and the 'brain ring' moved out of the centre of the head. Worked for me but may or may not work for you. FP ------------------- > francispoon wrote in message > <936eaee8.0411041225.1b1c0037@posting.google.com>... [quoted text clipped - 38 lines] > >> > >> Jenny |
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