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Medical Forum / Diseases and Disorders / Tinnitus / October 2004Francis Poon, et al on 'apology'
Let me introduce myself. Jim Anderson, a newbie, San Diego, CA. I became aware of my T just this year. I'm 50 years old. I, for one, have been reading the 'apology' thread all the agonizing way through. First of all. I think this is a great ng. But the news-group format has some serious limitations as far as really providing comprehensive help to people with T, or with any other incurable disease. Thoughts are too scattered. Information is buried under heaps of personal arguments, etc.. Also very difficult is wading thru the tons of ">" reply stuff that is repeated over and over again. To be really useful we need a mechanism to separate the facts from the opinions from the personalities. I think all three components are essential but should be separated somehow. (More on this in another post). Take Francis Poon. In my opinion this person has earned his stripes in the personal war on T. I'm researched much of what he has to say and find it very informative and interesting. Francis, like most of you, has, what I think, valuable information. He has opinions and he has personality. I appreciate Francis's facts and his opinions. Sometimes I disagree with Francis's opinion. In those cases I choose not to throw out the baby with the bath water. I still want him to share his experiences and opinions. I will keep my disagreement to a simple, "I disagree", unless I can provide a relevant fact. I dont want to challenge an opinion with another opinion.... What good would come of that? The introduction of personality in these postings, more often than not, usually serves only to distract others from from the important messages contained in the initial facts and the opinions. Again, I commend Francis on his facts, his opinions, and his desire to find a solution for T. I think I would be less informed without his thoughts. And I would hate to see him just get fed up and leave this ng. I don't really need to view Frances as 'infallible' for his thoughts to be valuable to me. His contributions are appreciated on an as-is basis by this T sufferrer. I'd just ask him, and others, to try to temper their personality-laced writings here. Stick to facts and opinions based upon experiences fighting T. We dont need to fight each other. I'd also like to than Frank, Patty, Jennifer, Jim, and Susan for their insights and opinions on how to fight T. You all have a common goal! Keep up the good work! Jimbo. > Let me introduce myself. Jim Anderson, a newbie, San Diego, CA. I > became aware of my T just this year. I'm 50 years old. [quoted text clipped - 42 lines] > > Jimbo. Jim, while I agree with much of what you write, I think it is important we help those who come to this group by challenging the promotion of treatments that have no scientific validation or harmful side effects. I challenged Francis Poon when he promoted intravenous injection of herbs as a treatment for tinnitus, for example, and Murray pointed out the consequences of a ginkgo overdose. It is very frustrating when these challenges are met with personal insults, cursing and east v. west harangues. >Jim, while I agree with much of what you write, I think it is important we >help those who come to this group by challenging the promotion of treatments >that have no scientific validation or harmful side effects. Admirable goal, but I don't think anyone with two brain cells to rub together is going to run out and eat a ton of black beans and begin mainlining mystery herbs on Francis' say so. :-) I challenged >Francis Poon when he promoted intravenous injection of herbs as a treatment >for tinnitus, for example, and Murray pointed out the consequences of a >ginkgo overdose. It is very frustrating when these challenges are met with >personal insults, cursing and east v. west harangues. Yes, that sure is frustrating, counterproductive and tiresome. He seems to have an overdeveloped compulsion to keep hammering away as if he needs every single person to agree with him. Not engaging him at these times may prove to be highly effective, IMNSVHO. Susan <just sayinzall> As for hyperbaric oxygen treatment, I have had training in this field and probably prescribe it for medical conditions more than others, but not for Tinnitus. If there was the slightest hint that it worked, I assure you I would recommend it. there is an article in German re using enzyemes like papain and bromelain for Tinnitus - 100% cure rate. I prescribe these products AT LEAST 5x a day for sinus, etc. If there was the slightest chance it worked for T I assure you I would recommend it, esp since my company, Hydro Med makes this product. In other words, just because its German or Chinese doesn't mean it works. Just because its popular is no indiction it works. But certain things do work for T if it is recent or associated with increase in fluid pressure in the inner ear. Murray Grossan, M.D. http://www.ent-consult.com > As for hyperbaric oxygen treatment, I have had training in this field and > probably prescribe it for medical conditions more than others, but not for > Tinnitus. If there was the slightest hint that it worked, I assure you I would > recommend it. Next time when you are invited to lecture on the Chinese doctors again, please make sure you bring up this point. It is almost a standard practice in the state hospitals in China now that a combination of hyperbaric oxygen treatment and intravenous injection is being applied to ear patients. Given the nature of the medical industry in that country, doctors have the tendency to prescribe all sorts of treatments which are way in excess of what is needed for the ill. I personally went through 25 dives in that hyperbaric oxygen chamber. There seemed to be 'some' improvement but the moment when it got to be 17-18 times, the strength of the treatment pretty well exhausted itself for me. My ENT doctor who subscribed to the blood flow theory told me that the medicine from intravenous injection could be better absorbed with the oxygen treatment performed at the same time. Then another ENT doctor in Hong Kong told me that oxygen treatment is useless and the use of DUXARIL could do just as well. I have personally found gingko biloba to be superior to duxaril in many ways. Duxaril produces sleep disturbance and is expensive. And I wish I had gone for accupunture instead of hyperbaric oxygen while I was in China. But then again these are all hindsights! But I did meet 2 persons in that oxygen chamber whose t is totally cured. It has been almost a year now and their t has not returned. Mind you, they t might have been cured by what was in their intravenous injection. FP > there is an article in German re using enzyemes like papain and bromelain for > Tinnitus - 100% cure rate. [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > Murray Grossan, M.D. > http://www.ent-consult.com >> As for hyperbaric oxygen treatment, I have had training in this field and >> probably prescribe it for medical conditions more than others, but not [quoted text clipped - 29 lines] > they t might have been cured by what was in their intravenous > injection. Still in contact with them, eh Francis? Why don't you ask them to post testimonials to their cure here? >>> As for hyperbaric oxygen treatment, I have had training in this field >>> and [quoted text clipped - 33 lines] > Still in contact with them, eh Francis? Why don't you ask them to post > testimonials to their cure here? That's a great idea, Bill. I, for one, would like to read their testimonials. Having T for many years, myself, I have found no treatment that totally (nor partially) cured it. Francis, could you give your 'cured' friends the name of this group and ask them to post here for us to read all about how the hyperbaric oxygen treatment helped them? Hearing from them, personally, would be great, don't you think?  Signature*??) . ?? ?.?*?) ?.?*?) ?.?*?) (?.?? (?.*? ?.?? `?-* * Patty * `?-* "Patty" <zippitydoda@doda.org> wrote in message snipped... > That's a great idea, Bill. I, for one, would like to read their > testimonials. Having T for many years, myself, I have found no treatment > that totally (nor partially) cured it. You can hear *my* testimony. A year ago, I was experiencing maddening ill. Now, I am enjoying silent days half of the week and noisy days the other half. But even noisy days are far from being as noisy and annoying as they were before. And even on noisy days, i am no longer experiencing tension in my heart and stomach area the way I used to. Francis, could you give your 'cured' > friends the name of this group and ask them to post here for us to read all > about how the hyperbaric oxygen treatment helped them? Hearing from them, > personally, would be great, don't you think? I went through hyperbaric chamber *myself*, at the same time when i took intravenous injection. The purpose of hyperbaric oxygen treatment is to assist the med from intravenous injection to be absorbed more effectively. This combination is good for t patients whose cause of t is in blood circulation. My cause of t, as i found out later on, is not from blood circulation but from my nerve. Thus this treatment method did not apply to me the way it applied to the other two whose cause might have been due to blood circulation. The time I was on this combined treatment, my t was pretty silent but the moment the treatment was over, the t came back. There were t patients in the chamber who have derived no benefit from the chamber too. Then again, the cause of their t might not have been due to blood circulation. As a t patient, have you asked your doctor what the cause of t is? It has been so many years now and I think you owe it to yourself to seek it out. FP > >> As for hyperbaric oxygen treatment, I have had training in this field and > >> probably prescribe it for medical conditions more than others, but not [quoted text clipped - 32 lines] > Still in contact with them, eh Francis? Why don't you ask them to post > testimonials to their cure here? One directly and one indirectly. I will ask them and they would do it provided they could get onto Google inside China, have the interests to do it, and post it in a language you can understand. I even know one whose t went away by itself. I went through the treatment *myself*. You could hear from me in my reply to Patty's. FP "Bill" <Bill@myplace.now> wrote in message news:<9Rdcd.61 snipped... > Jim, while I agree with much of what you write, I think it is important we > help those who come to this group by challenging the promotion of treatments > that have no scientific validation or harmful side effects. I challenged > Francis Poon when he promoted intravenous injection of herbs as a treatment > for tinnitus, I don't promote but I told you what i went through. I have repeated this many times but you don;t seem to have noticed. A combination of hyperbaric oxygen chamber and intravenous injection is the standard treatment for *all* tinnitus patients in the state hospitals in China. The Chinese doctors did not invent this method. They learnt that from the European doctors. That is to say, that is how they treat tinnitus in Europe. Some kinds of herbs possess the same blood vessel dilating effect as the synthetic medicine and they are cheaper to make and safer to use vs mineral medicine. That is why the doctors in China prefer herb solution as opposed to mineral solution. for example, and Murray pointed out the consequences of a > ginkgo overdose. YOu can get an 'overdose' of any medicine if you take too much. It is very frustrating when these challenges are met with > personal insults, cursing and east v. west harangues. If you had paid more attention, you would not have been insulted the way you got insulted by your high school teacher. FP > Let me introduce myself. Jim Anderson, a newbie, San Diego, CA. I > became aware of my T just this year. I'm 50 years old. [quoted text clipped - 30 lines] > thoughts. And I would hate to see him just get fed up and leave this > ng. Don't be worried. FP has not had a tradition of admitting defeats in his life. FP ==================================== I don't really need to view Frances as 'infallible' for his > thoughts to be valuable to me. His contributions are appreciated on > an as-is basis by this T sufferrer. I'd just ask him, and others, to [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > > Jimbo.
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