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Medical Forum / Diseases and Disorders / Tinnitus / October 2004For Steve
"Skycloud" <me@privacy.net> wrote in message news:2slomoF1nfrdgU1@uni-berlin.de... > Ben, I get the feeling that there must be all sorts of types of tinnitus > that respond differently to different things. I agree with you there! > Having said that, I'd be interested to learn whether the response of your > digital aids was designed to emphasise sound only at your tinnitus > requency - or if they just gave a more general boost. I imagine that if my > hearing amps were not as selective as they are, and particularly if they > were adjusted to favour the lower frequencies instead, then I too would find > they made my tinnitus worse - just as exposure to lower-frequency > 'droning'-type masking noises already does. I replied to this elsewhere, but in case you didn't see it. My aids are programmed to my hearing loss - high frequency. My T is a very high pitched ringing sound, usually emanating from the back of my head, or can be either side, though if on the left side, a lot harder to tolerate, That is why I am not a great believer in TRT - how the heck can someone get "used" to a variety of different sounds, or even the same sounds, coming from different places on any given day, and sometimes no T at all? I like the no-T days best :) Ben >> Ben, I get the feeling that there must be all sorts of types of tinnitus >> that respond differently to different things. [quoted text clipped - 26 lines] > > Ben I don't think you ever 'get used to it'. Perhaps a better description would be...'you learn to tolerate it'. To me, it's like trying to 'get used to' a screaming child. I would much rather it just 'shut up'. Consider yourself fortunate....I have No no-T days.  Signature*??) . ?? ?.?*?) ?.?*?) ?.?*?) (?.?? (?.*? ?.?? `?-* * Patty * `?-* > >> Ben, I get the feeling that there must be all sorts of types of tinnitus > >> that respond differently to different things. [quoted text clipped - 31 lines] > screaming child. I would much rather it just 'shut up'. Consider yourself > fortunate....I have No no-T days. Ben might have been suffering from 'a mix' of ills without realizing. Months ago, I was constantly complaining of t sound and 'somatic discomfort', 'red spot', etc., I was always told by almost everyone to habituate. Jim Chinnis suspected I was suffering from a 'mix'. So did Murray. It turned out that I was suffering from a nerve ill in addition to tinnitus. In the subsequent development of my t, I went for a treatment which took away my 'somatic discomfort' while leaving the t sound behind. I think Ben should make an effort to see Jim or Murray. FP > >> Ben, I get the feeling that there must be all sorts of types of tinnitus > >> that respond differently to different things. [quoted text clipped - 31 lines] > screaming child. I would much rather it just 'shut up'. Consider yourself > fortunate....I have No no-T days. *´¨) . ·´ ¸.·*¨) ¸.·*¨) ¸.·*¨) (¸.·´ (¸.*´ ¸.·´ `·-* * Patty * `·-* Wow Patty.... that is one COOL sig line : ) For me, an old 't' guy, I don't know if you'd describe habituation as "getting used to it" but it sure doesn't bother. I rarely even notice it. I do have days on end that I don't notice it. Those would be no 't' days, eh? Bruce > I do have days on > end that I don't notice it. Those would be no 't' days, eh? I have the odd days of complete silence and have NO idea why. It isn't because I am not noticing it as I try harder to listen for it as I can't believe it isn't ringing! Then I try hard to think what did I do to make a difference, and I haven't thought of a single thing, yet. :P Ben >> I do have days on >> end that I don't notice it. Those would be no 't' days, eh? [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > > Ben That has happened to me a few times lately too. I find it amusing. Just last night, when I wasn't thinking of my T at all and it wasn't bothering me, along came one of those unusually loud tones with a different pitch that seemed to come from one side. It caught my attention. Lasted for perhaps 15 seconds and then lapsed into complete silence. >>> I do have days on >>> end that I don't notice it. Those would be no 't' days, eh? [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] > that seemed to come from one side. It caught my attention. Lasted for > perhaps 15 seconds and then lapsed into complete silence. I wish someone would please explain to me how you can *not* hear something that is audible. I fully understand what Murray had to say about 'accepting' the T as being non threatening and I quote: "Sometimes it is like a tight bra or corset, after a while it is "accepted" as not a bad or a danger. We are designed to sleep with the crickets and the night noises, but awaken when the lion roars or the baby cries. As long as we identify the tinnitus as a "bad" you get the systemic reaction. Once you no longer identify it as a "bad" or a lion, you can accept it and go on with your activities. Murray Grossan, M.D. I don't identify my T as a "bad thing" nor do I associate it with the threat of a noise such as the roar of a lion. When I first joined this group, I was thinking this way...but not now. So, my question is: Why can't I just *not* hear it? I don't sit around and think about it. I don't dwell on it. It doesn't consume my every thought. However, I DO hear it. It's always there. Perhaps I'm just super sensitive to noise. Any suggestions or explanations? (Please don't suggest gingko, black beans, kidney rejuvination, accupunture or hyperbaric chambers.) Thanks, *??) . ?? ?.?*?) ?.?*?) ?.?*?) (?.?? (?.*? ?.?? `?-* * Patty * `?-* >>>> I do have days on >>>> end that I don't notice it. Those would be no 't' days, eh? [quoted text clipped - 42 lines] > . ?? ?.?*?) ?.?*?) ?.?*?) > (?.?? (?.*? ?.?? `?-* * Patty * `?-* For me, habituation works just like this common scenario: She: Did you hear what I just said? He: Sorry, I was thinking about something else. She: You never listen to me! He: <gulp> Clearly whatever she said caused his eardrum to vibrate, his hair cells to wave, and electrical impulses to propagate his auditory nerve. Her intelligence arrived at his auditory cortex and probably went into some queue for processing. His brain was busy, however, and didn't have time to check the queue. We know the queue gets cleared because we hear things in real time. Her second statement (we men have all heard this) is proof that he has successfully habituated her. >>>>> I do have days on >>>>> end that I don't notice it. Those would be no 't' days, eh? [quoted text clipped - 59 lines] > in real time. Her second statement (we men have all heard this) is proof > that he has successfully habituated her. I understand what you are saying, but that scenario is an 'outside' source of sound. Tinnitus is internal and never ceases....or, at least mine doesn't. *??) . ?? ?.?*?) ?.?*?) ?.?*?) (?.?? (?.*? ?.?? `?-* * Patty * `?-* >>>>>> I do have days on >>>>>> end that I don't notice it. Those would be no 't' days, eh? [quoted text clipped - 67 lines] > . ?? ?.?*?) ?.?*?) ?.?*?) > (?.?? (?.*? ?.?? `?-* * Patty * `?-* Once the "intelligence" (words, buzzing, ringing, chirping) reaches the auditory cortex, or perhaps originates in the audio cortex, the process would be the same IMO. After all, at that point sound waves are no longer involved but instead there is an electrochemical process as yet not understood. PET scans show activity in the auditory cortex of tinnitus victims that isn't present in others. We tinnitus victims extract intelligence from this activity, intelligence usually described as chirping, buzzing or ringing. To me, habituating the tinnitus sound is no different from habituating the sound of children playing. >>>>>>> I do have days on >>>>>>> end that I don't notice it. Those would be no 't' days, eh? [quoted text clipped - 79 lines] > ringing. To me, habituating the tinnitus sound is no different from > habituating the sound of children playing. Children playing, I can ignor. The freakin' high pitched buzz is harder for me. Don't know why, it just is. *??) . ?? ?.?*?) ?.?*?) ?.?*?) (?.?? (?.*? ?.?? `?-* * Patty * `?-* a tight corset or bra is still "there" but you don't have it on your mind 24/7 You are built a certain way. If I tell you DON"T THINK ABOUT SEX what happens?? same idea re Tinnitus. The tight bra is still there, but if it is considered a "just there" and not a bad, it doesn't influence your "feeling". Murray Grossan, M.D. http://www.ent-consult.com >The tight bra is still there, but if it is considered a "just there" and not >a >bad, it doesn't influence your "feeling". Any time a man finds himself wearing a tight bra, it's probably strongly influencing his feelings. ;-) Susan Any time a man finds himself wearing a tight bra, it's probably strongly influencing his feelings. ;-) is that Confucious? Shakespeare? Tao? Bible? very well said. Murray Grossan, M.D. http://www.ent-consult.com >is that Confucious? Shakespeare? Tao? Bible? Nah, just The World According to Susan; Often Wrong, Never in Doubt. ;-) Susan >a tight corset or bra is still "there" but you don't have it on your mind >24/7 No, actually, if my bra is tight, it isn't 'stil there'....I take it off. Applying the same theory to tinnitus, I can't 'take it off'. > You are built a certain way. If I tell you DON"T THINK ABOUT SEX what > happens?? Nothing. >same idea re Tinnitus. I don't think about Tinnitus 24/7...however, it is there 24/7. I DID spend an enormous amount of time thinking about it when it seemed unbearable (as in, a threat to me). I know better now and therefore, I don't dwell on it. I don't let it consume my every waking thought....but, it's still there. Signature*??) . ?? ?.?*?) ?.?*?) ?.?*?) (?.?? (?.*? ?.?? `?-* * Patty * `?-* > The tight bra is still there, but if it is considered a "just there" and > not a > bad, it doesn't influence your "feeling". > Murray Grossan, M.D. > http://www.ent-consult.com >> a tight corset or bra is still "there" but you don't have it on your mind >> 24/7 > > No, actually, if my bra is tight, it isn't 'stil there'....I take it off. > Applying the same theory to tinnitus, I can't 'take it off'. Ummm, yeah! Only a man would say a tight bra doesn't influence the way you feel. I've given them up, BTW -- ahhhh, freedom!! ;) Eva Or you can develop a conditioned reflex. When you think of the tight bra or the Tinnius, let that be a signal to relax your jaw or finger or breathe. in at count of four and out count of six, relaxing as you exhale. Murray Grossan, M.D. http://www.ent-consult.com > I wish someone would please explain to me how you can *not* hear something > that is audible. I fully understand what Murray had to say about > 'accepting' the T as being non threatening and I quote: If the T isn't audible then I guess we aren't suffering from it?! I haven't been afraid of my T since it began nearly 14 years ago, and that makes not the slightest difference to it either. > "Sometimes it is like a tight bra or corset, after a while it is "accepted" > as > not a bad or a danger. No, but you can take it off? You can take the bra off, but never T? I don't think it is a good analogy. > We are designed to sleep with the crickets and the night noises, but awaken > when the lion roars or the baby cries. As long as we identify the tinnitus [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > or a lion, you can accept it and go on with your activities. > Murray Grossan, M.D. T hasn't been a "danger" to me in nearly 14 years, and was quiet earlier today, dropped off to sleep in peace and quiet, now it is as noisy as hell :( T is *always "bad"? How can it possibly be good? "Bad" means we are trying to place emphasis on fear, or something nasty - T *is* nasty! I don't think it is anything to fear especially, other than the depression it can bring with tolerating it constantly, though it tends to make me angry as opposed to depressed. > I don't identify my T as a "bad thing" nor do I associate it with the threat > of a noise such as the roar of a lion. When I first joined this group, I [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > explanations? (Please don't suggest gingko, black beans, kidney > rejuvination, accupunture or hyperbaric chambers.) The T just gets on anyone's nerves as it is so bloody annoying! To be honest- after nearly 14 years I can't think of anything to do, other than "put up with it" - or "tolerate it" is a nicer way of putting it.. No doctor likes to admit they can't do anything to relieve us of T, or anything else? I am afraid you can hear your T because it is there, and you can hear it, so you have to put up with it :( Ben when you wear a tight belt or pants or bra, the pressure it there. "sensors" can detect the pressure , sensors can detect the nerve stimulation from the tight belt. But the conscious mind is simply not paying attention to it. If you paid attention to all the senses of your body you couldn't function pressure on your feet tight shoes the actual sounds in your head that are objective the pressure on your wrists. the movement of your intestines. All these can be brought to consciousness but fortunately we have learned to "ignore them". Poeple who live opposite the elevated trains after a while are totally unaware of their passing unless it is pointed out. you don"t feel the typewriter keys as you punch they, or feel the piano keys as you pound them. Yes your fingers are tired after 3 hours of concert but you never were aware when your didget hit the c key. One thing is confulsing you. You don't sit down and say, This is a bad, this is a good. These are totally unconscious reactions. You don't decide and think, I am going to be afraid when I hear the lion's roar - it is as automatic as blinking. Murray Grossan, M.D. http://www.ent-consult.com "Ben" <hand.knitter@ntlworld.com> wrote in message news:<epdbd.293 snipped... > The T just gets on anyone's nerves as it is so bloody annoying! To be > honest- after nearly 14 years I can't think of anything to do, other than > "put up with it" - or "tolerate it" is a nicer way of putting it.. No > doctor likes to admit they can't do anything to relieve us of T, or anything > else? I am afraid you can hear your T because it is there, and you can > hear it, so you have to put up with it :( Well, i suppose each case is different, and that is something that this group does not seem to have come to recognize. My view has always been: if you could put up with it without being annoyed, then perhaps you no longer need to seek solution. In my case, I have 3-4 quiet days of a week in which I feel that i am normal but it is the other 3-4 days in which I feel annoyed. That is why I need to seek _medical_ solution for further improvement. If, after 14 years, you still feel annoyed, I suggest you seek medical solution. A medical solution may not be available to you at this moment but it does not mean you won;t get one in the future. Since your doctor does not have a solution for you, let me produce one for you to consider. I do that based upon my experiences in seeing so many doctors. OK..... (1)Sleeping without a pillow. (2)Have at least one chiropactic a week. Ask the doctor to twist your neck. (3)Take one tablet of betahistine after dinner daily. (4)Once (3) is settled, take a gingko pill each morning with breakfast. Ask the pharmacist the brand most in demand and in this way you have a better chance of avoiding the faked ones. Remember, at any time you feel uncomfortable with the medication, you simply discontinue it. (5)Take an exericse program or an work-out so that you don't nap in day time but sleep well in the evening. Stick with the above simple program for at least 3 months and see if there would be any improvement. In the meanwhile, habituate as much as you want. FP FP > Ben Thanks Francis, though Betahistine made my T worse. :( I will try the rest though. Ben > (1)Sleeping without a pillow. > (2)Have at least one chiropactic a week. Ask the doctor to twist your [quoted text clipped - 15 lines] > FP > > Ben >(2)Have at least one chiropactic a week. Ask the doctor to twist your >neck. A lot of people don't like this. Discuss it with the chiro before you start. A gentle twist might be better. Tinnitus is a pain in the neck Elly's Tinnitus Resources http://eebee.net/ >> >> Ben, I get the feeling that there must be all sorts of types of >> >> tinnitus [quoted text clipped - 52 lines] > > Bruce Thanks, Bruce...that sig line took a while to get it the way I wanted it. Glad you like it. :-) I have 'moments' when I don't notice the 't'...but not days. That will come in time, eh? *??) . ?? ?.?*?) ?.?*?) ?.?*?) (?.?? (?.*? ?.?? `?-* * Patty * `?-* > > Ben, I get the feeling that there must be all sorts of types of tinnitus > > that respond differently to different things. [quoted text clipped - 21 lines] > > Ben Ben, Yes - your reply/replies have sure got through to me now - maybe the messages pop up on our different servers in a different order... Thanks for your data. As for my 'theory', it looks like it'll have to 'refined' (British understatement) - it's back to the drawing board for now! ;-) My sounds change too, at least in noticeability, but this seems to related to what other tasks in my brain is working on at the time. If it's busy dealing with the external world it doesn't seem to have the resources to process the tinnitus simultaneously. All the best, Steve O |
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