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Medical Forum / Diseases and Disorders / Tinnitus / September 2004

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Do you know how to use gingko biloba?

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francispoon - 05 Sep 2004 19:51 GMT
I had a talk with an experienced and highly qualified herb
practitioner a few days ago.  He indicated to me that gingko biloba
has never been prescribed _single-handedly_ to treat tinnitus.
According to him, whenever gingko is involved, it is always prescribed
_in conjunction with_ other herbs to produce an interaction for
tinnitus treatment.

Thus all the endless arguments/controlled studies as to whether or not
gingko works for tinnitus would really have been a waste of time....if
this guy were right.

FP
Jim Chinnis - 06 Sep 2004 16:14 GMT
fyfpoon@hotmail.com (francispoon) wrote in part:

>Thus all the endless arguments/controlled studies as to whether or not
>gingko works for tinnitus would really have been a waste of time....if
>this guy were right.

But the only way he could *know* that a particular combination of dosages of
4, 5, or 10 herbs works...is to have done a controlled study.

Math homework problem: How many combinations are there of 5 herbs, each at 3
possible dosages? How many controlled studies would be needed to show the
purported interaction of the herbs?
Signature

Jim Chinnis / Warrenton, Virginia, USA
Want to discuss Meniere's? See http://groups.yahoo.com/group/MenieresDG

francispoon - 07 Sep 2004 18:01 GMT
> fyfpoon@hotmail.com (francispoon) wrote in part:
>
[quoted text clipped - 8 lines]
> possible dosages? How many controlled studies would be needed to show the
> purported interaction of the herbs?

I think this doctor, like his colleagues, was trained in EMPIRICAL
studies as opposed to CONTROLLED studies.  There is no question about
his knowing the various portions of herbs used.  However, individual
patients may vary in the use of a particular herb's quantity,
depending on the doctor's diagnosis of the patient's individual
conditions, though the ingredients of the recipee are the same.  For
example, he may prescribe 500mg of gingko leaf for patient A while on
250 mg for patient B.

By the way, is an EMPIRICAL study as valid as a CONTROLLED study?

FP
==========================================
Jim Chinnis - 07 Sep 2004 21:52 GMT
fyfpoon@hotmail.com (francispoon) wrote in part:

>By the way, is an EMPIRICAL study as valid as a CONTROLLED study?

An empirical study can tell you the results it observes following a treatment.
A controlled study can tell you how those results differ from no treatment.
More or less...

Either type of study speaks only to the particular treatments actually tested.
To determine the right dose of five different herbs for ten different types of
patients would not be possible in a lifetime.
Signature

Jim Chinnis / Warrenton, Virginia, USA
Want to discuss Meniere's? See http://groups.yahoo.com/group/MenieresDG

francispoon - 08 Sep 2004 19:02 GMT
> fyfpoon@hotmail.com (francispoon) wrote in part:
>
[quoted text clipped - 3 lines]
> A controlled study can tell you how those results differ from no treatment.
> More or less...

I think a controlled study is ONE form of empirical study but not
necessarily the most authentic one.

> Either type of study speaks only to the particular treatments actually tested.
> To determine the right dose of five different herbs for ten different types of
> patients would not be possible in a lifetime.

But that is how they have been doing it for centuries!  

Well, let me give you an example.  Semantics oftentimes gets into the
way and makes intellectual confusion.

Last year, I was diagnosed of having high cholestrol level.  So my
American  doctor in HK Adventist Hospital suggested me to take mineral
medicine, lipitor, etc..  But being scared of its 'talked-about' side
effects, I did not take it.  Instead, I went to a herb doctor and
asked him if it was possible to improve my liquid profile using herbs.
After diagnosing me through feeling my pulse, observing the color of
my tongue, he took out a formula from a book.  He then reduced the
quantities of certain ingredients and raised that of other
ingredients...

My lipid profile was vastly improved after 10 bows of herb tea.  Each
bow was taken on one day and each bow was made by boiling a whole pile
of herb leafs in 6 bows of water.  So my lipid profile was brought
down to a 'safe' level.

Then I told the people in my office in HK.  And one guy took the
recipee and tried it.  He ended up with severe diahrea the following
day after taking the herb tea made from the same recipee.  And he
stopped!  I then encouraged him to go and find a herb practitioner to
'modify' the recipee.  He did.  The he tried again and this time those
herbs that caused him diahrea had been either reduced or taken out.
He did ok the second time.

Making herb tea takes quite a bit of time.  That is why so many people
just want their reliefs from herb pills.  But the proper way to do it
is using herb tea.  Here in British Columbia of Canada, many white
people know how to make herb tea themselves, while the younger
generation of the Chinese go for herb pills.

FP
 
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