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francispoon - 23 Jul 2004 04:45 GMT

The final answer regarding taking gingko and adult aspirin together
from my Cambridge doctor is that: yes, you can take both of them on
the same day as long as (1)the gingko is less than 120 mg in terms of
extract(or 500 mg of dried leaf) AND (2)the coated aspirin less than
50 mg.

If anyone has better answers than this one, by all means raise it.

FP

Reply to this Message

Smarty pants - 23 Jul 2004 05:23 GMT

> The final answer regarding taking gingko and adult aspirin together
> from my Cambridge doctor is that: yes, you can take both of them on
[quoted text clipped - 5 lines]
>
> FP

Francis, do you promise this is the final answer? After all, you have come
with SO MANY ANSWERS it is as though you find new relief for your tinnitus
every week. Here are just a few... I could have included many more of the
francispoon solutions:

> > T sufferers simply eat A LOT OF black beans. According to what I have
> > found out, not only do black beans help them cure T, some of the
> > sufferers have had their white hair turned black again. The theory is
> > this: black beans invigorate the kidney, which in turn invigorates the
> > rest of the body.

The day i dislodged myself from diurectics was the day of liberation for me
as far as my
tinnitus was concerned.

In each and every one of these occasions, I experienced a 'stedio'

> >> >effect of ringing on both ears from my tinnitus. Without any of these
> >> >products, the ringing takes place in one ear only.

The funny thing is: after taking Dyazide, the ringing

> >seems to shift to the middle

> >That is a good suggestion but unfortunately 2 doctors of mine do think
> >cleaning up the blood vessels is part of the solution to tinnitus, the
[quoted text clipped - 3 lines]
> >the herbalist makes most sense. His prescribed medicine has turned
> >the ringing sound into the sound of water flowing through a pipe.

Thank you for the soothing words. Currently i am trying everything.
It seems to be my tinnitus comes from hidden anxiety inside my system.

To improve it as much as possible. I used to suffer from somatic
discomfort in my head about 2 months ago but now it is under control
with the use of Lasix on an as needed basis.

> > >I have discovered that out of the 7 days in a week, 4 are
> > >'consistently' good while 3 'consistently' bad days. Regardless of
> > >the kind of medication I put on, I could have the bad days improved in
> > >degree but not in kind. That is to say, it is still the solid 3 days
> > >in which things are annoying.

> >I have discovered that not only high salt diet could affect tinnitus,
> >high sugar diet could do that also. Both high salt and sugar diet
> >affect the inner ear fluid concentration which could result in an
> >aggravated T.

Though i am no doctor and no scientist, i would nevertheless venture>to say

> that there is at least a correlational if not a casual>relationship

between

> alcohol intake and tinnitus sound.

I am no longer dealing with the sound but am dealing with the somatic
discomfort that comes with the sound. I will be talking to my doc
about using carbonic dehydrase inhibitor soon.

Betahistine mesilate and hyperbaric oxygen chamber seem to have worked
a bit in terms of bringing about 'vertical' progress. And somewhere
they seem to have reached their limits.

When I had my T onset
at first, i was constantly given the herbs that were meant to look
after the kidney. The herbs did produce some silence. But in order
for the silence to continue, one has to boil the herb tea daily and it
was a laborious exercise.

The doctor in the neurology department concluded that my T is due to
some nerve conditions inside the brain and in my view is similar to
T-7 cause of tinnitus as described in T-Gone website.

When it rang

> >on my left side of the head, it triggered fast heartbeats but when it
> >rings on the right hand side, there has never been any fast
> >heartbeats. Currently, after both the intravenous injection and
> >hyperbaric oxygen treatment, the ringing on the left side no longer
> >bothers me.

I have found ATIVAN and on one occasion prochlorperazine helpful in
terms of making the noise go away. I heard that in the US the
tinnitus victims are on Xanax for long term treatment.

> >My tinnitus came out in the process of changing my high blood pressure
> >medication from exclusively calcium channel blocker to a combination
> >approach which included diurectics, beta-blocker and calcium channel
> >blocker.

> >Go for a hyperbaric oxygen therapy treatment. Half of the people in
> >the chamber here I am go there because of hearing problems.

> > I have discovered that if I take all the needed high blood pressure
> > medicine at one time in the morning, such an action could trigger the
> > inner ear and the inner ear, once triggered, rings for the whole day.
> > On the other hand, if i divided the needed regimen into two portions
> > that are to be taken two times, the inner ear is less likely triggered
> > and the subsequent ringing becomes smaller.

> > Yesterday(Jan 28), i did away with Dyazide but replaced it with 2.5 mg
> > of Plendil. The noise was 60% reduced and confined to the left side
> > of the ear/brain in the form of low frequency buzz. I took 10 mg of
> > Zestril and 2.5 mg of Plendil in the morning. From 10am to 3pm, it
> > was quite tolerably quiet.

Reply to this Message

snap_crackle_pop - 23 Jul 2004 20:25 GMT

>>The final answer regarding taking gingko and adult aspirin together
>>from my Cambridge doctor is that: yes, you can take both of them on
[quoted text clipped - 10 lines]
> every week. Here are just a few... I could have included many more of the
> francispoon solutions:

(snip of Captain's Log, Med Trek, Stardate 2_23_2004)

I think what Francis might be trying to say that if you take the unwise
advice of a doctor to simultaneously take two potent blood thinners of a
certain dosage, you can unwisely take both potent blood thinners for no
indicated medical reason if you want to. I think it is a Free Will
Argument wrapped up in an Authority Figure, in the form of a "Cambridge"
Doctor.

I think taking blood thinners for no reason is stupid, but then I'm not
a "Cambridge Doctor".

scp

Reply to this Message

francispoon - 26 Jul 2004 05:08 GMT

> >>The final answer regarding taking gingko and adult aspirin together
> >>from my Cambridge doctor is that: yes, you can take both of them on
[quoted text clipped - 22 lines]
> I think taking blood thinners for no reason is stupid, but then I'm not
> a "Cambridge Doctor".

Some patients need to take gingko to (1)improve their cochleavascular
condition and at the same time (2)prevent stroke. 120 mg of gingko
are not sufficient to prevent stroke while the addition of 50 mg of
adult aspirin will do the job. That is according to the doctor. But
if you have no problem with the possibility of a stroke, you then need
not take aspirin. Or if you need not have your head blood circulation
improved, you need not take the gingko. And you need not take any if
you don;t need either.

FP
=================================================

> scp

Reply to this Message

snap_crackle_pop - 26 Jul 2004 05:24 GMT

>>>>The final answer regarding taking gingko and adult aspirin together
>>>
[quoted text clipped - 35 lines]
>
> FP

Exactly my point, Francis. You cite two reasons for taking blood
thinners. I'll take your word for it that blood thinners are actually
indicated to prevent stroke and improve cochlearvascular condition. I
point out that neither of these two conditions are tinnitus.

You say if you don't need to take a blood thinner you don't need to take
a blood thinner. I agree.

I don't think tinnitus is any reason to take a blood thinner. Thickness
or thinness of blood have nothing to do with tinnitus. For us to follow
your line of argument, you must show us indication that thickness or
thinness of blood have something to do with tinnitus. In all this
discussion I have not seen this. All I've seen is the suggestion that
gingko MAY be helpful. Studies have shown it is not.

Are all these drugs your doctors prescribe for you for tinnitus? Or are
they for some other conditions? Did you suffer a closed-head injury,
and did you have a large blood clot in your head? Is that what all
these drugs your doctors are prescribing for you are for? Why would you
conclude treatment for blood clot in the brain is indicated to treat
tinnitus as well? Wishful thinking?

I simply do not follow your reasoning.

And, Francis, habituation is real. My tinnitus roars, constantly. It
is horribly loud. I don't hear it. I've gotten "used" to it, it is
familiar to me, it doesn't scare me, and I ignore it. Please don't tell
me my learning to not hear my tinnitus is not "real". Almost everyone
reading this forum know from experience you get used to tinnitus, and as
time goes by it bothers you less and less. I go for days without
hearing it, or being aware of it, and it is actually loud enough to wake
the dead.

I don't want to argue with you Francis. Believe what you will.

Best wishes,

scp

Reply to this Message

francispoon - 26 Jul 2004 13:14 GMT

> >>>>The final answer regarding taking gingko and adult aspirin together
>
[quoted text clipped - 70 lines]
>
> I don't want to argue with you Francis. Believe what you will.

*Experiencing* what I have and what I will is a more accurate way of
describing our relative positions.

To cut it short:
(1)The doc prescribed me gingko to help improve the blood circulation
in my head, which he believes will in turn help improve tinnitus. I
have *experienced* a certain degree of effect there. Never mind the
studies on both sides.
(2)I believe you have successfully habituated your t, and I have with
mine too as long as the somatic discomfort is resolved. The t sound
no longer bothers me the way it used to but somatic discomfort
continues to do so to *me*.

FP

> =================================
> Best wishes,
>
> scp

Reply to this Message

snap_crackle_pop - 26 Jul 2004 22:48 GMT

>>>>>>The final answer regarding taking gingko and adult aspirin together
>>
[quoted text clipped - 85 lines]
>
> FP

Then I think we largely agree. Good.

Best wishes,

scp

Reply to this Message

francispoon - 26 Jul 2004 04:31 GMT

> > The final answer regarding taking gingko and adult aspirin together
> > from my Cambridge doctor is that: yes, you can take both of them on
[quoted text clipped - 7 lines]
>
> Francis, do you promise this is the final answer?

It is 'final' in the sense that it is from the doctor and with regard
to the relationship between gingko and aspirin when both are taken
together. It is not final in the sense of providing a cure or
treatment to T. I think my English above clearly conveys that.

FP
=======================================

After all, you have come

> with SO MANY ANSWERS it is as though you find new relief for your tinnitus
> every week. Here are just a few... I could have included many more of the
[quoted text clipped - 97 lines]
> > > Zestril and 2.5 mg of Plendil in the morning. From 10am to 3pm, it
> > > was quite tolerably quiet.

Reply to this Message

ENTconsult - 24 Jul 2004 02:37 GMT

a we know that the labels on the Gingko as to TRUE quatities are usually
unrelieable
b. so what do you do if you have a headache and want to take an extra aspirin?
c how are you the public supposed to know that Aleve Motrin, etc are on the no
no list?

I am sure thousands of people take the stuff without harm. I just see the ones
with the nosebleeds. And when I do , I am thakful it is the nose that is
bleeding and not the brain.
Murray Grossan, M.D.
http://www.ent-consult.com

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francispoon - 26 Jul 2004 04:17 GMT

> a we know that the labels on the Gingko as to TRUE quatities are usually
> unrelieable
[quoted text clipped - 5 lines]
> with the nosebleeds. And when I do , I am thakful it is the nose that is
> bleeding and not the brain.

All that concerns you expressed are quite realistic, especially the
(a). My doc suggests/advises/assumes that 120 mg of gingko extract
alone are not sufficient to prevent stroke, while the addition of
another 50 mg of adult coated aspirin will do the job. Would you
advise people to take just that 120 mg of gingko(provided it is in
accurate quantity, provided people for whatever reasons do need to
take it and no other blood thinners), to do away with the additional
50 mg of adult aspirin at least for the time being?

Your experience and insight will be cordially appreciated.

FP

> Murray Grossan, M.D.
> http://www.ent-consult.com

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ENTconsult - 26 Jul 2004 17:55 GMT

Actually I don't know what the correct dose is.
Even when we use Coumadin and montitor daily we get problems. And that is as
well known and scientifically studies a product that you can find, and we can
monitor the effects daily.
All I can say is that even though I do have access to the the most carefullly
assayed, Gingko, I don't have it in my product out of concern about it mixing
with other meds people are taking.
On the other hand there are MD's who take Gingko so I am not the ultimate word
on this . And there are MD's who recommend it for T also.
My problem is
a. I need scientific evidence it will work
b. I am concerned of the possibilities of real harm.

As I said before, when I see a nosebleed from Gingko plus other products I am
thankful that that's all they have and nothing worse.

Murray Grossan, M.D.
http://www.ent-consult.com

Reply to this Message

francispoon - 27 Jul 2004 07:51 GMT

> Actually I don't know what the correct dose is.
> Even when we use Coumadin and montitor daily we get problems. And that is as
[quoted text clipped - 7 lines]
> My problem is
> a. I need scientific evidence it will work

Can you search under the search engines in Yahoo?

> b. I am concerned of the possibilities of real harm.

Matter of quantities used. But i am sure it is less harmful than
Ativan that I was hooked into some months ago.

FP
=============================

> As I said before, when I see a nosebleed from Gingko plus other products I am
> thankful that that's all they have and nothing worse.
>
> Murray Grossan, M.D.
> http://www.ent-consult.com

Reply to this Message

been_there_done_that - 30 Jul 2004 15:40 GMT

> > Actually I don't know what the correct dose is.
> > Even when we use Coumadin and montitor daily we get problems. And that is as
[quoted text clipped - 17 lines]
> FP
> =============================

Francis,
The body is like a machine with noises going on all the time. Sounds result
from the mechanical movements of muscles, bones, blood and air. Moreover,
our ears, like any mechanism, are unlikely to be perfect and perform without
any background hum at all. So, what is surprising is *not* that so many
people notice the noises in their ears but that so few do not hear them.
Doctors have shown that, provided we have sufficiently quiet conditions, the
majority, perhaps all of us, will be aware these noises. It appears to be,
by and large, a matter of awareness or attention that determines whether or
not we notice these noises. Perhaps the most important and encouraging fact
about tinnitus is that in 99% of cases the cause is benign--it isn't a sign
of a serious life-threatening illness. This, in itself, should bring about
at least a degree of 'peace of mind'. Recognizing the fact that your
tinnitus is *sometimes* relieved (for whatever reason) should encourage you
because it is a sign that further progress can be made. The full
development of tolerance may take several years and may occur so slowly that
you hardly notice that you are overcoming (habituating) the problem. You
have run the gamut of gimmicks, tried everything anyone suggests to you, and
your 'final answer' is never your final answer. Why not stop putting your
body through so much torture and give habituation a try. There are many
things you can do for yourself, no cost involved, no drugs, and the rewards
will be remarkable. By the way, I have had tinnitus for many years. I
still hear it most of the time but I don't dwell on it. It was only by
acceptance and through determination that I was able to *not* let it control
my life.

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francispoon - 05 Aug 2004 04:56 GMT

> > entconsult@aol.comnospam (ENTconsult) wrote in message
> news:<20040726125559.18203.00000473@mb-m03.aol.com>...
[quoted text clipped - 36 lines]
> about tinnitus is that in 99% of cases the cause is benign--it isn't a sign
> of a serious life-threatening illness.

If it had been a matter of sound, habituation would have been a
natural extension of my daily routines. Unfortunately, the sound is
accompanied by irritating pain and discomfort inside the head and that
is what keeps my curiosity going. Thanks to my relentless pursuit of
my tinnitus cause, I have finally brought the beast under control
using _medication_.

What applies to one does not apply to all.

FP
=======================================

This, in itself, should bring about

> at least a degree of 'peace of mind'. Recognizing the fact that your
> tinnitus is *sometimes* relieved (for whatever reason) should encourage you
[quoted text clipped - 9 lines]
> acceptance and through determination that I was able to *not* let it control
> my life.

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