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Medical Forum / Diseases and Disorders / Sinusitis / January 2005

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Hydro Pulse vs Water Pik

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Glen Rocklin - 24 Oct 2004 00:46 GMT
I have been asked to respond to the HP vs Water Pik issue.  As a
former 20+ year employee at Water Pik,  most recently as their
National Accounts Director,  I am intimately familiar with irrigator
units and their application.

The Hydro Pulse is by far a superior unit in both performance and
design especially as it relates to Nasal Irrigation for which it was
specifically designed. During my tenure at Water Pik we were very
happy to sell Water Pik's because of Dr. Grossan's efforts especially
when you consider the market for oral irrigator units has eroded
dramatically since the early 1980's and is nearly 70% less than what
it was during its peak. During that time we were careful to point out
that the units warranty would be voided if anything other than water
was used or it was used for any application other than dental. That
was at a time when the units were far superior to what is being
produced and marketed today.

The only way oral irrigator units can maintain a measure of oral care
market share against the high-end toothbrushes and the low-end spin
brushes is on price. As a result Water Pik and Conair have both
dramatically reduced the quality of their units both in its
performance and design which is within the range of acceptable
perforamance for oral irirgation but makes them very suspect for nasal
irrigation.

Notable differences between the Oral irrigators and the HP include:

Low-end rubber and latex "O" rings and seals, which not only degrade
quickly but also can result in rubber/latex reside in the reservoir
and solution.  The lack of protected seals and "O" rings will also
result in premature wear, leaking, and noisy valves.

Variable pulse rate vs calibrated pulse rate. The low-end oral
irrigator units being produced currently by Durable Goods (for Water
Pik) and Gimelli (for Conair Interplak) actually fluctuate from a low
of 1000 PPM to a peak of 3300 PPM.  Anything over 1600 PPM becomes to
close to a steady stream and no longer provides the benefit of a
pulsatile action close to that of the nasal cilia and in accordance
with Dr. Grossan's recognized work on pulsatile irrigation and its
impact on mucociliary function.

The lack of a fully adjustable pressure control on the current Water
Pik design due to the factory settings further results in lack of
personal control and comfort.

In contrast, the Hydro Pulse utilizes medical grade silicone and is
free from any latex or rubber, which may result in unwanted residue or
degradation. The unit is calibrated to pulse at 1200 PPM.  The HP has
a fully adjustable pressure control for added control and comfort. The
mechanical planetary gear and piston design on the HP is quieter and
more durable for less leaking and noise.  The targeted design as a
nasal irrigator as opposed to a modified Water Pik makes the HP
eligible for insurance reimbursement not found on a Water Pik type
device.

Re: Shock - NO irrigator currently comes with a GFI plug.  Nor is
there any record of any serious injury from any irrigator appliance.
The plugs are polarized and the low wattage of the device simply do
not make them necessary and GFI plugs are inconsistent and problematic
in their own right. Of course as with any electrical appliances safety
must be used and a litany of legal advisements and warnings accompany
the unit as with any electrical appliance.

I am not here to tell you whether you should buy an Water Pik/Conair
or Hydro Pulse.  I am simply reporting there is a significant
performance and design advantage associated with the HP.  The fact
that it is specifically designed for this purpose as opposed to a high
pressure oral device which is being modified externally for an
application not intended should be sufficient for making the upgrade.

In any event, to those that think the Water Pik of today is anything
like the Water Pik produced in Ft. Collins CO for nearly 40 years
before production shut down and moved overseas has simply not made an
informed product comparison.

Glen Rocklin
Steven Litvintchouk - 24 Oct 2004 03:18 GMT
> I have been asked to respond to the HP vs Water Pik issue.  As a
> former 20+ year employee at Water Pik,  most recently as their
> National Accounts Director,  I am intimately familiar with irrigator
> units and their application.
> . . . .
> Re: Shock - NO irrigator currently comes with a GFI plug.  

The WaterPik was never intended to be used with salt water on a regular
basis.  The HydroPulse is.

Salt water is a good electrical conductor.  And as the water evaporates,
the salt that remains can corrode electrical parts.  I find that due to
the location of the power button on the HydroPulse, saline solution
often drips onto the power button accidentally.  Over time, that might
be damaging the seal and causing electrical current leakage.  When I
owned a WaterPik, with its power switch on the side of the machine, the
switch got wet much less often.

Let's wait and see if any other users of the HydroPulse ever encounter
excessive current leakage from their units.  I'm sure that if enough
reports of this phenomenon occur, the HydroMed company will then do
something about it.

Signature

Steven D. Litvintchouk
Email:  sdlitvin@earthlinkNOSPAM.net

Remove the NOSPAM before replying to me.

Glen Rocklin - 24 Oct 2004 17:54 GMT
I wanted to follow-up my posting to simply restate I had received a
couple of inquiries from folks who viewed the postings and wanted
clarifIcation between the units. I simply thought it made sense to
repond to the newsgroup. I meant in no way to try and commercialize
the newsgroup.  I am intimately familiar with virtually every
irrigator on the market and have been for almost 30 years. Will they
all work for irrigation purposes?  Certainly, but some are better than
others. There are plenty of folks that simply use the high pressure
Water Pik jet tip directly to irirgate their nose.  It is not the best
thing to do but it will work, if you can handle it - although not too
many health care professionals would recommend it.  I simply was
trying to point out the differences.  I am neither a medical doctor or
regular poster to this group.

I will leave future postings to the members and others that benefit
from this newsgroup and apologize if I acted improper in anyway.

Glen Rocklin
MS - 22 Dec 2004 03:29 GMT
> There are plenty of folks that simply use the high pressure
> Water Pik jet tip directly to irirgate their nose.

It doesn't have to be high pressure. You can adjust the pressure very low.
And the Interplak-Conair device (which you conveniently hardly mentioned)
can be adjusted lower VERY easily.

>It is not the best
> thing to do but it will work, if you can handle it - although not too
> many health care professionals would recommend it.

Please clarify that last statement. How do you know how many health care
professionals would recommend it? Have you done a poll of them? That sounds
like an invented "statistic" to me, not very honest.

>I simply was
> trying to point out the differences.

No you weren't. You were plugging a product that you have a financial stake
in. Why is that still not posted anywhere in these two posts of yours? This
was no kind of objective comparison between two products, but a sales pitch.

> I will leave future postings to the members and others that benefit
> from this newsgroup and apologize if I acted improper in anyway.

I do consider commercializing of newsgroups, using them for free
advertising, to be improper. However, you are not the only one who does
that. It occurs, unfortunately, all over Usenet, including frequently in
this NG. But again, if you do that, you should at least be honest about it.
I still take exception to the the fact that although you stated many times
that you used to work for Waterpik, you don't state at all your current
involvement with Hydro-pulse. People should know what motives people might
have for posting what they do.
augustwestern - 22 Dec 2004 19:47 GMT
> I do consider commercializing of newsgroups, using them for free
> advertising, to be improper. However, you are not the only one who does
[quoted text clipped - 4 lines]
> involvement with Hydro-pulse. People should know what motives people might
> have for posting what they do.

Thanks for replying twice to this old thread from last Oct.

People should know what motives people might have for posting what they do.
shedokdo@aol.com - 01 Jan 2005 04:15 GMT
Mr Rocklin: what do you know about the Sanvic Hydropulse Nasal
Irrigator? How does it compare to the Grossan Hydropulse? It does seem
to be about  10-15 less in price. Thanks in advance for answering
Carol
ARoberts - 24 Oct 2004 05:17 GMT
> Re: Shock - NO irrigator currently comes with a GFI plug.  Nor is
> there any record of any serious injury from any irrigator appliance.
> The plugs are polarized and the low wattage of the device simply do
> not make them necessary and GFI plugs are inconsistent and problematic
> in their own right. .

Well, you lost me with the low wattage statement.  The power consumption of
a device has nothing to do with the necessity for a GFI.  Any device that
has line potential and is used around water can benefit from a GFI.  The
fact that the plugs are polarized is a benefit when a potential "hot
chassis" exists, to ensure that the exposed metal components are not at
lethal voltages, but does _not_ make GFIs "unnecessary" when water can come
in contact with line voltages inside an appliance.  Yes, GFIs have some
inconveniences, including false triggering, but that inconvenience pales in
comparison to electrocution.
MS - 22 Dec 2004 03:20 GMT
You are always called in to defend the HydroPulse, correct, when anyone
questions its supposed "superiority", costing three times as much as the
other devices?

Something that I didn't notice in this post of yours, but I think you wrote
before, is that you are very involved in producing the Hydro-Pulse. Is that
correct? Why do you mention so many times that you formerly worked for
WaterPik, but do not mention that currently are involved with the
Hydropulse? When there is a financial incentive to any post, it should be
clearly stated by the poster. The sales of Hydro-Pulse affect the financial
well-being of your company, correct? You are not just writing from an
objective point of view. Dr. G asked you to write this, as you both have a
financial stake in sales of Hydro-pulse.

A couple of points about what you wrote below:

You imply that the HP is sturdier. Why then, does it only have a one year
warranty, while both the WP and Interplak-Conair device have two year
warranties? Why does that question go unanswered? Several people here have
mentioned how their HPs broke down a little over one year. Doesn't sound
very sturdy to me.

It's true that often the current WPs have problems, especially when used
with saline. However, the WP company is great about its warranty. You just
call them, tell them the problem, tell them your serial number, and they
send a new one (or a new handle, if that is the problem). They don't ask you
to send the old one back, they don't ask you to send them a copy of your
receipt. Nothing but a phone call, and they send you a new one. I would
guess that, as long as the model you have was made within the last two
years, that it would even be replaced after two years, since they don't ask
for a copy of the purchase receipt. Does the HP have such a great return
policy, within its much shorter one year warranty period? (Anyone here with
a HP had a problem within one year, and called for warranty repair or
replacement? If so, please relate that experience to us.)

The IP (Interplak-Conair) seems more sturdy than the WP. I have not had any
problems with mine. However, although I like the IP more than the WP in most
respects, the larger water tank (1000 vs 500 ml) on the WP is better for my
purposes, so I haven't used the IP much. Like your HP, it has a rotary
pressure control device on the machine, and is much quieter than the WP/

Regarding that the "warranty is voided if you use anything other than plain
water in the device", perhaps that was the case when you worked for WP, but
it certainly is not the case now. In fact, WP now puts out its own nasal
irrigation device. No one irrigates the nose with plain water, so they must
assume that people will use it with saline. One cannot make the claim that
the device is "not intended for nasal irrigation", since the company makes a
nasal irrigation tip to use with it. In fact, it is a little funny that you
make the statement about the warranty being voided by non-dental use, right
after the sentence about "we were very happy to sell Waterpiks because of
Dr. Grossan's efforts".

You criticize that the WP and IP are made in Asia. Yes, unfortunately for
the manufacturing work force in the USA, almost all production of goods
bought here has moved to Asia, Latin America, etc. I don't think that
degrades the quality of the product, however. You would have a hard time in
any shopping mall in the USA, to find any products manufactured here. Same
goes for the Hydropulse. Also manufactured in Asia, correct? So, how can you
criticize that "production has moved overseas", when your production is also
overseas?

You write, as has Dr. G, about "insurance reimbursement". Has anyone reading
this, who has an HP (several regular readers to this NG seem to have one),
been reimbursed by insurance for it? If there has been any reiumbursement, I
would guess it is a very small amount, like a few dollars, nowhere near
enough to make up for the difference in cost between the products.

Once more--before you write promoting a product in which you have a
financial incentive in its sales, you should be honest in disclosing that
fact.

> I have been asked to respond to the HP vs Water Pik issue.  As a
> former 20+ year employee at Water Pik,  most recently as their
[quoted text clipped - 72 lines]
>
> Glen Rocklin
ENTconsult - 23 Dec 2004 05:36 GMT
I have never worked for Water Pik.

The name of the Hydro Pulse is the Grossan Hydro Pulse Nasal/ Sinus Irrigator.
I hope that is clear that it is my product, I don't know how to make it any
plainer or clearer. If you go to www.hydromedonline.com you can see that the
products are clearly marked Grossan. That should tell you whose product it is.
I can assure you I have nothing to be ashamed of in designing and marketing my
products. Actually its the reverse, I am grateful ot be able to bring these
product to fruition.  
Murray Grossan, M.D.
http://www.ent-consult.com
shedokdo@aol.com - 01 Jan 2005 04:09 GMT
Right on Mr Rocklin!  The Grossan Hydropulse rocks!!!!!!!!!!   Carol
 
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