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Medical Forum / Diseases and Disorders / Sinusitis / February 2004question for Steven Litvintchouk
Hi Steven, in a previous thread titled 'fast acting nasal spray with minimal rebound effects?', we had an exchange in which you said... ***** What else is your doctor doing for you besides prescribing Flonase? If you have been diagnosed with sinusitis, then you may need to be treated much more aggressively besides just steroid nasal sprays. I soon reached the point when the Flonase wasn't getting into my left nostril at all because it was completely shut. Then I had to go for surgery. What was your exact diagnosis? And besides Flonase, what else is your doctor doing for you? What did your CT scan show? -- Steven L. ***** i meant to reply but never got around to it. anyway, i'm most interested and wondering if you'd be willing to share your case history. how is it that you got to the point where your left nostril was completely shut? can you paint a picture for us? when did problems start, what where symptoms, what treatments, what helped, what didn't help, what surgery did you opt for, how did that go, did it help, etc. as far as my case goes, i've been desperately trying to find someone who gives a sh.t. the apathy is staggering. i can't seem to get anyone to work with me agressively to troubleshoot the problem. very half-hearted efforts are the most i can dredge up. i've had to doggedly pursue matters and be extremely persistant in following up. Damn near every course of treatment has come at my suggestion/insistence and the only way i've been able to make these suggestions is based on the clues i've gotten from this group. thank god for alt.support.sinusitis and Dr. Grossan. it was a couple weeks before anyone even suggested an antibiotic. during that time, i beat them to the punch and put myself on a course of penicillin VK. that seemed to knock out the basic 'sinus infection' that started my current crisis, but i know it didn't wipe the slate clean. i went from congested, with yellow/brown mucus and that 'sick' feeling to no mucus - or very little and it is clear or a little milky white but bone dry, extremely swollen nasal passages and near complete blockage due to the inflammation. so, it doesn't seem really like my 'sinuses' are involved at all now or any kind of typical sinus infection. it's just big time swollen turbinites from what i understand. but WHY - what is triggering, keeping these babies swollen? Flonase - that seemed to help greatly after a few weeks use - now, very limited effectiveness. next, a fairly worthless very low level course of prednisone - 10mg per day for 5 days. then a course of Cefuroxime Axetil antibiotic, next a bam/bam course of prednisone 60mg/day for three days, 40mg/day for three days, 20mg per day for three days. I really felt like this second course of prednisone was starting to bite on the third day, but once i started tapering off my condition stagnated - got no better - maybe a little worse. then we had a five day Z-Pack of antibiotics. finally, i insisted on a CT scan, which i got last week. got a call from my ENT's office and they left a msg which simply stated - 'Your CT scan was clean' - gee thanks - could you give me a little more insight than that MAYBE - for crying out freakin' loud. I'm gonna follow up on this. tried to get more info about it, but they never called me back. i will persist. after the CT scan i decided to try another ENT. had first appt with him a couple days ago. he prescribed Singulair tablets - which i guess is supposed to help with inflammation and Astelin nasal spray which i guess is for combating non-specific type allergens/irritants. i got no other guidance from him and there are no future plans to do anything - no follow up appts - nothing. i'm just hanging out here, praying everyday to be able to keep a little trickle of air flowing thru one or either nostril. not sure what angle to try next. thanks for listening. please let me know about your case if you don't mind sharing. > Hi Steven, > [quoted text clipped - 24 lines] > symptoms, what treatments, what helped, what didn't help, what surgery > did you opt for, how did that go, did it help, etc. It's a long story. When I took a new job in 1984, I moved into a new locale and bought a home there. It's too bad I didn't spend lots more time looking around the neighborhoods before buying my home because within a year I started to notice something. Whenever I would come home from work, my nose would instantly start to stuff up mildly. Even before I drove to my house, as soon as I drove back to my town, this would happen. And the next morning, when I would get in my car and drive out of my town to go to work in another town, my nose would unclog again. (I have since traced this phenomenon to a polluting factory a couple of miles from my house that I didn't know was there; it's not easy to spot from where I live). In January 1991, I got my first sinus infection following a simple cold. My primary care physician (PCP) prescribed Bactrim and it went away. But then when I got my next cold 8 months later, the same thing happened--sinus infection, Bactrim. I started getting sinus infections after other colds. And then I even got a sinus infection without a cold. But so long as antibiotics like Bactrim and Cipro cleared the infections, I didn't complain. Then a *very* odd thing happened. In late September 1993, I caught a simple cold. This cold didn't turn into a sinus infection and it seemed to go away by itself. Since I thought I had just gotten over it, I took a flu shot that my employer was giving out. Within 5 hours of taking the flu shot, I got a terrific flood of thick yellow mucus pouring down the back of my throat that seemed to come out of nowhere. I was literally gagging and choking on it. Even with my past sinus infections, I had *never* experienced anything like this. (I have always wondered if this could be a coincidence. If you search Google for NGs like this one, you will find similar "idiosyncratic" reactions to flu shots that seem to have triggered bizarre sinus problems or other bizarre problems in a very few people.) So I went back to my PCP and again he put me on antibiotics. But this time, the symptons never completely stopped. My left nostril remained completely stuffed up. He tried several antibiotics, steroid nasal sprays, nothing worked. My sinus infections were now much worse. Again and again I would get that thick yellow flood of mucus pouring down the back of my throat; I would wake up in the middle of the night gagging and choking. The antibiotics would stop this symptom but my left nostril remained completely clogged. I went to several ENTs but they all said my CT scan "didn't look too bad" so they did nothing. Eventually I found an ENT who was willing to diagnose me with chronic sinusitis, based on my symptoms. This guy knew that even CT scans aren't 100% reliable and there's a 5% chance of false negatives. So he was willing to *disregard* the CT scan and do surgery on me based on my symptoms and history alone. And it's good thing he did, because when he went into my sinuses he found real sinusitis that the CT scan had missed. The surgery definitely helped. But I have never completely rid of myself of yellowish post nasal drip from my left nostril, resulting in a chronic cough I have never been able to completely shake. There is one pair of ethmoids that he didn't touch, and I've always wondered if that's the problem. But he says it isn't. The moral of the story is: There is no 100% definitive way to diagnose sinusitis except to go for surgery and let the surgeon go into all your sinuses and have a look around. Because in order to push that endoscope all the way into every sinus you have to be anesthetized and they only do that with surgery. So where things stand now is I really need to find another ENT who will also diagnose me with sinusitis and agree to operate despite another negative CT scan. So far, I haven't found one. I seem to be in the unlucky 5% of the sinus sufferers for whom the CT scan is negative. -- Steven L. > as far as my case goes, i've been desperately trying to find someone > who gives a sh.t. the apathy is staggering. i can't seem to get anyone [quoted text clipped - 39 lines] > to be able to keep a little trickle of air flowing thru one or either > nostril. not sure what angle to try next. By now you have probably read my story. If you can travel, you should consider going to see either of the following: Dr. Wellington Tichenor, in New York City www.sinuses.com He used to post here. Go to his website and read how sinusitis should be treated: http://www.sinuses.com/md.htm Or the Mayo Clinic in Minnesota. Or search the U.S. News website for a list of the other hospitals with the best otolaryngology departments. Good luck. -- Steven L. Steve... What an interesting story that sure draws parallels to mine. ..I think I've always had some sinus problems. Even as a little kid, I was always snorting. However, In 1983, I developed this abscess type pain directly below my right eye. It was terrible. After a few days, I went to the Doc. and was prescribed some amoxil. Cleared it up within a few days. Right up until the late nineties, I didn't have too much problem. ...Then I too opted for the flu shot. I think in /98. Four days later I developed sinus problems that have never left. ....Of course, that was the last flu shot I've had, as even the first one I had the year before, I felt under the weather for a few days. .....I've just had another flair-up a few weeks ago. Normally, my Doc. gives me 3 weeks of 250 mg. Levaquin. ...This time he decided to try 500 mg. per day. It's worked much better. ...Jon >Steve... What an interesting story that sure draws parallels to mine. >..I think I've always had some sinus problems. Even as a little kid, [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] >of 250 mg. Levaquin. ...This time he decided to try 500 mg. per day. >It's worked much better. ...Jon another tie-in with a flu shot in your case. Steven Litvintchouk's case ramped up to the max after a flu shot. my serious problem going on three months duration started shorly after a flu shot. coincidence? what might this indicate? a lingering infection/pathology triggered by flu shots - a virus? >>Steve... What an interesting story that sure draws parallels to mine. >>..I think I've always had some sinus problems. Even as a little kid, [quoted text clipped - 16 lines] > coincidence? what might this indicate? a lingering infection/pathology > triggered by flu shots - a virus? Flu shots have more in them than just the flu antigen. (It's the flu antigen you make antibodies for, so then you're immune to the flu.) But flu shots have other so-called "junk DNA" as well. For example, if you're allergic to eggs, you can't take a flu shot because it's made from eggs and some of the egg DNA ends up in the shot. As part of the manufacturing process, other "junk DNA" ends up in the shot as well. Those vaccine components are all listed in the manufacturer package insert that your doctor got, but when your doctor gave you the flu shot he didn't show you that document, right? We probably reacted to the junk DNA that was in the shot that year. Here are some more folks who had such problems: "Hello....I have had the flu shot for the last 4 years, excluding last year. Everytime I get the shot, within a couple of days, I develop a "mini" flu which seems to last a few days. A couple of years ago, however, when I had the shot, my sinuses took an immediate turn for the worse and had me on antibiotics for weeks. ...I decided not to have the shot last fall ...I think it increases the congestion in me, just enough, to aggravate the underlying condition." http://www.google.com/groups?q=+%22flu+shot%22+group:alt.support.sinusitis&hl=en &lr=&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&scoring=d&selm=CZaC6.6655%24FY5.532152%40www.newsranger.c om&rnum=10 "Whoever ever since I had the flu vaccination a week ago (winter soon here down under) I have had pain in a different area of my sinus's, it's like I have a serve headache all the time. Normally pain is in left sinus as the infections home is in my left middle ear. At present both sides have been aching and right between the eyes." http://www.google.com/groups?hl=en&lr=&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&selm=3AD90E1C.81D0BA7D% 40pmassociates.com.au "I have often wondered if it was because of the Swine Flu Shot I got circa 1976 caused me to have sinus problems. I never had them before I got that shot. " http://www.google.com/groups?hl=en&lr=&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&selm=B929A498.7F9C%25to mmylane%40earthlink.net "I already have Benign Positional Vertigo which began after I received a flu shot in 1992. I heard it reported (very quietly, via a nurse I knew at Scripps in San Diego) that many people suffered vestibular side effects from that years shot. " http://www.google.com/groups?q=+%22flu+shot%22+group:alt.support.sinusitis&hl=en &lr=&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&scoring=d&selm=20020114135230.12283.00001089%40mb-mu.aol. com&rnum=6 "On Monday, I got a flu shot just like I do every year since 1990 (except when pregnant). About 10 minutes after the shot, I started to feel bad. Normally, I get swollen and red at the injection site and usually my elbow and neck are a little stiff for a day or two. This time I got nauseated, light headed, *extremely* fatigued, shaky, hot and sweaty if I move around at all, headache, fever, memory problems (which I attribute to fatigue), and pain in chest like smoke inhalation. If I move around a lot, I cough, aggravating asthma. Worked on Tuesday, came home early Thursday, stayed home today-Friday. Saw the doctor. She can't figure it out." http://www.sleepnet.com/apnea4/messages/472.html "Almost 1,000 Canadians have suffered adverse reactions to the flu vaccine in the past two months, Health Canada has revealed. That's nearly 80 times as many as for the same period last year. While the outbreak, dubbed oculo-respiratory syndrome, is well under control -- resulting in only four hospitalizations and no deaths -- it has set off alarm bells among public-health experts, who worry about the country's ability to respond to a genuine crisis. " http://www.whale.to/m/flu8.html -- Steven L. >Flu shots have more in them than just the flu antigen. (It's the flu >antigen you make antibodies for, so then you're immune to the flu.) [quoted text clipped - 18 lines] >underlying condition." >http://www.google.com/groups?q=+%22flu+shot%22+group:alt.support.sinusitis&hl=en &lr=&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&scoring=d&selm=CZaC6.6655%24FY5.532152%40www.newsranger.c om&rnum=10 <snip a bunch of other excellent references re: flu shots and sinus problems> Steven, thanks for the research and well organized documentation of all this. thanks for taking the time and effort to put it all together. excellent post. iJah <snip> >It's a long story. <snip> >Then a *very* odd thing happened. In late September 1993, I caught a >simple cold. This cold didn't turn into a sinus infection and it seemed [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] >to flu shots that seem to have triggered bizarre sinus problems or other >bizarre problems in a very few people.) Yikes. A flu shot, eh? I completely forgot about my flu shot. My current crisis started right after a flu shot. I got the flu shot and about 36 hours later started having flu like symptoms. my doc assured me that the shot didn't cause them, that flu symptoms don't come until 3-5 days after you 'catch it'. So, coincidence? <snip> >The surgery definitely helped. But I have never completely rid of >myself of yellowish post nasal drip from my left nostril, resulting in a >chronic cough I have never been able to completely shake. There is one >pair of ethmoids that he didn't touch, and I've always wondered if >that's the problem. But he says it isn't. what kind of surgery was it? > <snip> > [quoted text clipped - 20 lines] > me that the shot didn't cause them, that flu symptoms don't come until > 3-5 days after you 'catch it'. So, coincidence? Please search the Google archive of this NG for more examples of bizarre reactions like mine. > <snip> > [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > > what kind of surgery was it? Septoplasty, bilateral maxillary antrostomy, and double ethmoidectomy. -- Steven L. I've got the dry completely blocked stuffed up crappy feeling. I came down with a bug October 1st. Kicked it pretty easily (5 days on Zpak). I was almost 100% and I got the flu shot in early November. I remained at the almost 100% status until Dec 24th. I don't think that the flu shot had any affect on my problems. But then again, who the hell knows. >The surgery definitely helped. But I have never completely rid of >myself of yellowish post nasal drip from my left nostril, resulting in a [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] >also diagnose me with sinusitis and agree to operate despite another >negative CT scan. So far, I haven't found one. In that particular case you might want to go to U.Penn for a consultation at least. Dr. Kennedy and the others there believe that opening up the ethmoids completely is key to resolving long-term chronic sinusitis. They have been the main advocates of that form of comprehensive ethmoidectomy. They are somewhat at odds with Mayo on that. >>The surgery definitely helped. But I have never completely rid of >>myself of yellowish post nasal drip from my left nostril, resulting in a [quoted text clipped - 19 lines] > main advocates of that form of comprehensive ethmoidectomy. They are somewhat > at odds with Mayo on that. What do Dr. Kennedy and the others at Up.Penn think of Mayo's fungal sinusitis theories? This is beginning to sound like a pissing contest I don't want to get in the middle of. -- Steven L. >What do Dr. Kennedy and the others at Up.Penn think of Mayo's fungal >sinusitis theories? They do not believe it is correct (or at least not a full explanation) - and they say so. They are looking more at infection passing through bone - which is why they remove quite a bit of ethmoid bone. >This is beginning to sound like a pissing contest I >don't want to get in the middle of. They are rival theories, that is all. You likely already are in the middle of it. The doctors you are seeing now will belong to one school of treatment or another (or yet another). If you want, get opinions from both and you will have a lot more insights by that point, I suspect... >>What do Dr. Kennedy and the others at Up.Penn think of Mayo's fungal >>sinusitis theories? [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > They are looking more at infection passing through bone - which is why they > remove quite a bit of ethmoid bone. OK, I tried to make an appointment with them but unfortunately they don't honor my medical insurance and they even refuse to take cash. Is there anybody else in the U.S. who has a similar philosophy? -- Steven L. >>>What do Dr. Kennedy and the others at Up.Penn think of Mayo's fungal >>>sinusitis theories? [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > >Is there anybody else in the U.S. who has a similar philosophy? Dr. Kennedy does not take most insurance plans because those plans *require* an unreasonably low fixed reimbursement amount and because he has the luxury of being famous enough that he does not have to. But last time I was there, he gave a substantial discount for cash and then you would file with your own insurance company. I did it that way and got reimbursed later by my two insurance companies. I think one of the insurers objected at first but I provided additional evidence and they did pay it all. If it comes to surgery, the office will quote a fee beforehand and it is due ahead of time. I admit this is going to be a burden on some. The hospital does negotiate with the insurance company ahead of time to agree on an amount beforehand in repect of their fees. It is only the doctor fees that are at issue. I would be glad to call them and check on their current policies for you. Can I do that? You might email me the name of the person you spoke to if you have it and anyother details and I will call them, or I can call other names I have there.... Don You could call his office secretary and ask for names of his residents that have gone into practice. Since they trained with him, they probably have the same philosophy. Murray Grossan, M.D. http://www.ent-consult.com >>>>What do Dr. Kennedy and the others at Up.Penn think of Mayo's fungal >>>>sinusitis theories? [quoted text clipped - 17 lines] > would file with your own insurance company. I did it that way and got > reimbursed later by my two insurance companies. How do I get past the receptionist who screens the phone calls? She refused to make an appointment for me as soon as she found out they don't honor my insurance company. -- Steven L. >How do I get past the receptionist who screens the phone calls? She >refused to make an appointment for me as soon as she found out they >don't honor my insurance company. > >-- Steve L this may not a big help, but i've always found i can backdoor my way in by saying something like 'i understand that is the policy', but i'd like to speak to the office manager or some other other administrative personell to discuss the matter in more detail and see if we can work out some alternative arraingments - and ask very non-chalantly - no pressure - thank them profusely if you get any postive response. sure it doesn't make sense in this case, but i also often like to ask to speak to a nurse and can usually get much further with them towards getting the ball rolling that speaking with receptionists. I think nurse power trumps receptionist power! iJah >sure it doesn't make sense in this case, but i also often like to ask >to speak to a nurse and can usually get much further with them towards >getting the ball rolling that speaking with receptionists. I think >nurse power trumps receptionist power! This has always worked for me. >How do I get past the receptionist who screens the phone calls? She >refused to make an appointment for me as soon as she found out they >don't honor my insurance company. I would call his own office - I will email you the number - I think that is the best way to go anyway - that is the way I approached him (I researched the number). I try to avoid calling general appointment numbers as they are usually pretty clueless. In my case, his secretary suggested I send her CT scans for him to take a look first informally. Then call her back in a while to see if he would suggest setting up an appointment after he has looked at the CT scan. He is in high demand and they may have told the appointments people not to make appointments without prior contact with Dr. Kennedy's office. He works in close association with others, such as Dr. Bolger, so I think you would be able to see one of them if he himself cannot take anyone now (which is possible). I think it is only Dr. Kennedy personally who does not want to deal with insurance companies (i.e others there may take it). But I would start with Dr. Kennedy's office. I believe they can recommend others also. I also do know still others who do the "Kennedy cleanout" who have trained with him (as Dr. Grossan suggested), but I would suggest trying Dr. Kennedy and U. Penn. first as he has unmatchable all-around skills,. experience, and judgement and a deft hand with the endocope that I have not quite seen elsewhere. You might be interested in t he following paper: Perloff JR, Gannon FH, Bolger WE, Montone KT, Orlandi R, Kennedy DW. Bone Involvement in Sinusitis: An Apparent Pathway for the Spread of Disease. Laryngoscope 110(12):2095-2099, Dec 2000. >>How do I get past the receptionist who screens the phone calls? She >>refused to make an appointment for me as soon as she found out they [quoted text clipped - 15 lines] > would be able to see one of them if he himself cannot take anyone now (which is > possible). I never expected to see Dr. Kennedy. Dr. Bolger or one of the others would be fine. whichever one I talk to, I'll ask about their familiarity with Dr. Kennedy's techniques. Unfortunately, I don't have a recent CT scan to send them. I'll just have to rely on my medical records and my ENT's surgery report. iJah, if you're reading this, thanx for your help. It looks like you and Don Brady both want me to go directly to the medical folks, and that's what I'm going to do rather than continue to argue with the receptionists. -- Steven L. >I never expected to see Dr. Kennedy. Dr. Bolger or one of the others >would be fine. whichever one I talk to, I'll ask about their >familiarity with Dr. Kennedy's techniques. Right - if you start by talking to Dr. Kennedy's office, you should be fine with whoever they refer you to. Personally I would suggest trying for Dr.Kennedy first. Others would be fine too - I think they can give you other names elsewhere that Dr. Kennedy recommends. Looking at the website http://www.uphs.upenn.edu/pennorl/ though, it appears that Dr. Bolger has left for the militray or some such. An enormous name in Rhinology that was there who wrote many papers with Dr. Kennedy is Donald Lanza. He is now at the Cleveland Clinic, I see http://www.clevelandclinic.org/misc/staff/lanza.htm He would be a superb person to see too. Don How could I access that paper? I guess I missed the beginning of this conversation, while I was being well for a while. << I would call his own office - I will email you the number - I think that is the best way to go anyway - that is the way I approached him (I researched the number). I try to avoid calling general appointment numbers as they are usually pretty clueless. In my case, his secretary suggested I send her CT scans for him to take a look first informally. Then call her back in a while to see if he would suggest setting up an appointment after he has looked at the CT scan. He is in high demand and they may have told the appointments people not to make appointments without prior contact with Dr. Kennedy's office. He works in close association with others, such as Dr. Bolger, so I think you would be able to see one of them if he himself cannot take anyone now (which is possible). I think it is only Dr. Kennedy personally who does not want to deal with insurance companies (i.e others there may take it). But I would start with Dr. Kennedy's office. I believe they can recommend others also. I also do know still others who do the "Kennedy cleanout" who have trained with him (as Dr. Grossan suggested), but I would suggest trying Dr. Kennedy and U. Penn. first as he has unmatchable all-around skills,. experience, and judgement and a deft hand with the endocope that I have not quite seen elsewhere. You might be interested in t he following paper: Perloff JR, Gannon FH, Bolger WE, Montone KT, Orlandi R, Kennedy DW. Bone Involvement in Sinusitis: An Apparent Pathway for the Spread of Disease. Laryngoscope 110(12):2095-2099, Dec 2000. >><BR><BR> Sue M. >How could I access that paper? I guess I missed the beginning of this >conversation, I can't find the full article online but here is a summary http://www.uphs.upenn.edu/news/News_Releases/dec00/Sinusitis.shtml >while I was being well for a while. Hopefully the wellness will go for longer and longer stretches until it is 100%.... By the way, while looking for the article, I found the following chapter of a book chapter by Dr. Kennedy which is a good summary of sinus surgery. It may be old though, and does not discuss the issues raised above..... (corrected) >How could I access that paper? I guess I missed the beginning of this >conversation, I can't find the full article online but here is a summary http://www.uphs.upenn.edu/news/News_Releases/dec00/Sinusitis.shtml >while I was being well for a while. Hopefully the wellness will go for longer and longer stretches until it is 100%.... By the way, while looking for the article, I found the following chapter of a book chapter by Dr. Kennedy which is a good summary of sinus surgery. It may be older though, and does not discuss the issues raised above..... http://www.harcourt-international.com/e-books/pdf/94.pdf Thanks for the link. As part of the article it states: In this study, "we were able to show that the inflammation spreads through the bone, and that the inflammation may actually be identified within the bone at a considerable distance from the infected sinus". I wonder how they identified it, do you know? This is a scary thought. Too much opening can cause open nose syndrome, can't it? How do they know when they've gotten all the bone infection? I'll try to check out the pdf document too. Did you have this done, Don? I guess I missed this thread. The longest my wellness has lasted in the past 9 years is about 10 months. I'm in the throes of a build up now, I think. I'm looking for some alternative answer. << (corrected) I can't find the full article online but here is a summary http://www.uphs.upenn.edu/news/News_Releases/dec00/Sinusitis.shtml >while I was being well for a while. Hopefully the wellness will go for longer and longer stretches until it is 100%.... By the way, while looking for the article, I found the following chapter of a book chapter by Dr. Kennedy which is a good summary of sinus surgery. It may be older though, and does not discuss the issues raised above..... http://www.harcourt-international.com/e-books/pdf/94.pdf >><BR><BR> Sue M. >Thanks for the link. As part of the article it states: In this study, "we >were able to show that the inflammation spreads through the bone, and that the >inflammation may actually be identified within the bone at a considerable >distance from the infected sinus". >I wonder how they identified it, do you know? They induced sinusitis in rabbits (!) and measured its progress from one sinus to another, through bone. >This is a scary thought. Too much opening can cause open nose syndrome, can't >it? They do not remove a lot of turbinate, just ethmoid bone. > How do they know when they've gotten all the bone infection? They remove most of the fine bony partition structure in the ethmoid sinuses, whch is where they believe infection lodges. >Did you have this done, Don? Yes I did. I guess I missed this thread. >The longest my wellness has lasted in the past 9 years is about 10 months. I'm >in the throes of a build up now, I think. I'm sorry to hear that, > I'm looking for some alternative >answer. I find rest and exercise make an *enormous* amount of difference too. I'm again trying GSE (grapefruit seed extract) and larger amounts of vitamin C, may look into Dr Ivker's suggestions again. Rest and exercise doesn't seem to do anything much long term for me, tho' it feels good at the moment. I did have some "opening of chambers" during my FESS 9 yrs ago, I'll have to check and see exactly how much was taken out. Do you remember the thread where you talked about your procedure? >>I find rest and exercise make an *enormous* amount of difference too. >><BR><BR> Sue M. >I'm again trying GSE (grapefruit seed extract) and larger amounts of vitamin C, >may look into Dr Ivker's suggestions again. [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > >Do you remember the thread where you talked about your procedure? Sue - it was a few years ago now - nothing new. Dr. Kennedy and his colleagues remove far more bone than others. Other ENT's are very interested when they examine me wth an endoscope to see... So, Don did it make a big difference in your condition? I'm wondering how your status is since this procedure. Sorry if this is a repeat question. Thanks for indulging me. It seems as tho' something is curtailing my production of infected looking mucous, since I upped the amount of GSE and Vitamin C yesterday. I hadn't hoped for much, but now I'm beginning to. << Sue - it was a few years ago now - nothing new. Dr. Kennedy and his colleagues remove far more bone than others. Other ENT's are very interested when they examine me wth an endoscope to see... >><BR><BR> Sue M. >So, Don did it make a big difference in your condition? I'm wondering how your >status is since this procedure. I never had major infections in the first place so I was never in as bad a way as many here, and therefore cannot exactly speak to their situation from personal experience. I mainly tend to get much a lot of post-nasal drainage. Also, my nose was pretty well closed off because of enlarged turbinates. The latter problem was corrected and I am much better off for that. I still get drainage, but I realize now that it is totally in proportion to the amount of irritants I expose myself to (smoke at work, dust. mold etc). Surgery is never going to stop that reaction, not could it. It has given me a second chance to clean up my envionment, rest enough, etc. I know that if I fail to do that well enough, eventually everything will swell up again and get to a bad state. I do see that if I do enough things right, the sinuses open up more, and vice-versa. I can tell by now in various ways. For those with repeated major *infections*, perhaps the Kennedy procedure will help eliminate infection from the bone. But I cannot be sure of that from my own case. Or, maybe it really is a continuum from inflammaton to infection - I am not sure. I will say that I used to see *some* yellow occasionally, and that now that is gone. So I think opening up the sinuses may have eliminated some very minor infections at least. >It seems as tho' something is curtailing my production of infected looking >mucous, since I upped the amount of GSE and Vitamin C yesterday. I hadn't >hoped for much, but now I'm beginning to. Good luck as always. Don I appreciate your explanation. You are lucky that you can effect your status somewhat. Of course, at times we are all at the mercy of environments we cannot control and isn't that frustrating. Thanks for your encouragement and support. << I never had major infections in the first place so I was never in as bad a way as many here, and therefore cannot exactly speak to their situation from personal experience. I mainly tend to get much a lot of post-nasal drainage. Also, my nose was pretty well closed off because of enlarged turbinates. The latter problem was corrected and I am much better off for that. I still get drainage, but I realize now that it is totally in proportion to the amount of irritants I expose myself to (smoke at work, dust. mold etc). Surgery is never going to stop that reaction, not could it. It has given me a second chance to clean up my envionment, rest enough, etc. I know that if I fail to do that well enough, eventually everything will swell up again and get to a bad state. I do see that if I do enough things right, the sinuses open up more, and vice-versa. I can tell by now in various ways. For those with repeated major *infections*, perhaps the Kennedy procedure will help eliminate infection from the bone. But I cannot be sure of that from my own case. Or, maybe it really is a continuum from inflammaton to infection - I am not sure. I will say that I used to see *some* yellow occasionally, and that now that is gone. So I think opening up the sinuses may have eliminated some very minor infections at least. >It seems as tho' something is curtailing my production of infected looking >mucous, since I upped the amount of GSE and Vitamin C yesterday. I hadn't >hoped for much, but now I'm beginning to. Good luck as always. Don >><BR><BR> Sue M. |
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