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Medical Forum / Diseases and Disorders / Sinusitis / February 2008

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Make a tannin tea?

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geronimo - 03 Feb 2008 17:06 GMT
I am getting a bit tired of sucking on pecan shell (actually the
center membrane).  Makes it hard to talk among other things.  Wouldn't
it be possible to make a tea rich in tannins, and sweeten with splenda
so it is not so bitter? For that matter why isn't there a product on
the market  like this?
truehawk - 03 Feb 2008 19:32 GMT
> I am getting a bit tired of sucking on pecan shell (actually the
> center membrane).  Makes it hard to talk among other things.  Wouldn't
> it be possible to make a tea rich in tannins, and sweeten with splenda
> so it is not so bitter? For that matter why isn't there a product on
> the market  like this?

I have made a tea using pecan shells for some time.
Mine is not bitter, but there are 300 varieties of pecan, so it is not
inconcievable that
you have some with bitter membranes.
I grind the shells up in the blender and then brew with fragments of
orange peal and cloves using a coffee filter.
This also works for irrigation solution if you add salt, and a bit of
lemon. Splenda would not be
a bad idea!

As for a product on the market, I don't have the connections to get it
done,
and what idiot would drink pecan tea? Only one that knows what it is
good for.
The FDA pretty much frowns on claims to treat specific problems unless
one has
studies to back it up, and there are studies, but I don't know if the
FDA would consider
them sufficient to justify an advertising claim.

If you want a really strong tea tea, brew some Irish Breakfast Tea,
which is pretty strong, and add
a spoonful of instant..
geronimo - 05 Feb 2008 14:33 GMT
Well, about how long does a cup of your brew keep the congestion at
bay?   It seems like sucking on the pecan membreane might have a
time-release effect, a little at a time getting into the saliva and on
into the bloodstream.

>> I am getting a bit tired of sucking on pecan shell (actually the
>> center membrane).  Makes it hard to talk among other things.  Wouldn't
[quoted text clipped - 25 lines]
>which is pretty strong, and add
>a spoonful of instant..
truehawk - 06 Feb 2008 03:46 GMT
> Well, about how long does a cup of your brew keep the congestion at
> bay?   It seems like sucking on the pecan membreane might have a
[quoted text clipped - 33 lines]
> >which is pretty strong, and add
> >a spoonful of instant..

Yes, the pacan membrane gives a time release effect, that is why I
recommend them.
The tea is to use for irrigation.  It should strong to take the mucus
apart, and have more salt than your saltest deposit, so that the mucus
left swells less.
There are places in the sinuses that are more accessible from the
front, but
unless one cleans out the back first, one will experience an ice dam
effect, one is not able to breath through the nose for some time.
So I alternate sides every day.

Tannin is not effective in the blood stream. It is a topical not a
systemic treatment. It binds to the blood, which is a reason why it is
effective against coagulese positive bacteria that use your own blood
plasma as raw material to make clear, springy, fibrin mucus.
geronimo - 16 Feb 2008 12:27 GMT
I am not sure I understand.  If topical rather than systemic, then do
you mean that the tannins released from pecan shell into the mouth,
mixed with saliva, then get into the sinuses?  And if its not
systemic, then I suppose that means that it is not carried by the
bloodstream throughout the body...but you say it binds to the blood?

Are there teas then that are drunk for taste which contain tannins?
Which ones would be highest in tannin, if that is the case? But then
if not systemic, then whatever goes down into the stomach is not going
to have any effect....its just the "topical" effect of having the
tannins in the mouth, and  travelling into the sinuses that would have
beneficial effect?

Have you heard of Xylitol   (sugar substitute)?  Besides selling the
sugar substitute, they have a nasal spray xylitol product
....supposedly it has an anti-bacterial effect.  Perhaps this would be
good?

>> Well, about how long does a cup of your brew keep the congestion at
>> bay?   It seems like sucking on the pecan membreane might have a
[quoted text clipped - 49 lines]
>effective against coagulese positive bacteria that use your own blood
>plasma as raw material to make clear, springy, fibrin mucus.
truehawk - 16 Feb 2008 17:43 GMT
> I am not sure I understand.  If topical rather than systemic, then do
> you mean that the tannins released from pecan shell into the mouth,
[quoted text clipped - 70 lines]
> >effective against coagulese positive bacteria that use your own blood
> >plasma as raw material to make clear, springy, fibrin mucus.

To clarify the nature of the mystery let me ask another question.
How do the esters and complex hydrocarbons that give one one's sense
of smell get from the mouth to the roof of the sinuses where the nasal
hairs come through the skull from the olfactory bulb into the top of
the sinuses?
I am not sure how the tannins get from the mouth to the sinuses, but
they evidently do.
The effect is topical, not systemic.

By all means use tea if that makes you more comfortable, I have found
very strong tea with a little salt and lemon is considerably better
than any other irrigation solution other than the pecan based ones.
Black tea contains the most tannins, but the tannin in tea pale in
comparison to those available from the humble pecan.
Pick out the nutmeats and grind the shells in a blender or coffee
grinder. Sieve to remove some of the fine red powder
and reserve.
Put the fine ground shells in a coffee filter
with the peal of an orange and a couple of cloves as an option, and
perk with one cup of water per 1/4  cup of ground shell.
Brew as you would for coffee.
You can add salt just until it tastes slightly salty, and lemon juice
at this point, and use it as an irrigation solution, sweeten it an use
it as a diffusion solution or
for something that is a bit more effective don't put anything in it
yet:
Put in it a blender and add nutmeats and the fine red powder back to
the brew and blend until creamy, then blend twice as long.
Add the salt, 1 pk of cherry coolaid (red dye that adheres to the
bugs, and V C) to 4 cups of solution, or 1/4th pk per cup, and add
splenda to taste.
Hold it in your mouth and then lay down inclining your head from one
side to the other, about 10 minutes each side will pull out quite a
bit of junk.  Longer when you are just starting. And when you first
start pulling the junk out, the removal will give probably give you a
headache, so take some advil before you start, and for me the mucus
that I pull down "causes emisis in the primate model".  But it has
with everything, untreated PND, antibotic washes, and to some degree
with the tannin just a bit less so. The tannin will cause the mucus to
shrink, but plan on spitting out solution, mucus and all out every 10
minutes or so.

to get an idea of the relative properties of tea, coffee and tannin
prepare a cup of each and let sit on an undistrubed spot for
a couple of weeks. In my experiment, The coffee showed mold. The tea
showed mold. The pecan solution has not shown any growth of any kind
so far after 4 weeks. Pecans have been defending their babies against
the micro-gang forever. They got it right.
But do your own experiment.
judy.n - 18 Feb 2008 12:29 GMT
> > I am getting a bit tired of sucking on pecan shell (actually the
> > center membrane).  Makes it hard to talk among other things.  Wouldn't
[quoted text clipped - 25 lines]
> which is pretty strong, and add
> a spoonful of instant..

Why not try Xlitol for a sweetener: unlike nutrasweet, Splenda is not
a neurotoxin, but it's somewhat suspect.
The xlitol would be sweet and decrease bacterial adherence. IMO
Judy
Michael - 19 Feb 2008 18:17 GMT
> > > I am getting a bit tired of sucking on pecan shell (actually the
> > > center membrane).  Makes it hard to talk among other things.  Wouldn't
[quoted text clipped - 30 lines]
> The xlitol would be sweet and decrease bacterial adherence. IMO
> Judy

"Which ones would be highest in tannin, ..."

Assam Tea is said, by tea specialists, to contain the largest quantity
of tannins.

Though green tea is less effective for me as a 'mucous buster' I have
started to add an additional single  bag of green tea to the wash
preparation (four bags black tea to 500 ml. water) to broaden the
range of tannins, because the specific tannins in green tea are
potentially anti microbial and for this effect tea tannins are
supposed to act in a synergistic manner. [ see:  The antibacterial
activity of plant extracts containing polyphenols against
Streptococcus mutans. Caries Res. 2007;41(5):342-9. PMID: 17713333.
Antibacterial activity of polyphenol components in oolong tea extract
against Streptococcus mutans Caries Res. 2004 Jan-Feb;38(1):2-8. PMID:
14684970.  Effects of tannins and related polyphenols on methicillin-
resistant Staphylococcus aureus. Phytochemistry. 2005 Sep;66(17):
2047-55. Review. PMID: 16153408   Antibacterial action of several
tannins against Staphylococcus aureus.  J Antimicrob Chemother. 2001
Oct;48(4):487-91. PMID: 11581226.]

There also may well be other compounds that are more available in the
green tea that have a potentially negative  effect on the bacteria
[Factors affecting the levels of tea polyphenols and caffeine in tea
leaves. J Agric Food Chem. 2003 Mar 26;51(7):1864-73. PMID: 12643643
Overview of antibacterial, antitoxin, antiviral, and antifungal
activities of tea flavonoids and teas. Mol Nutr Food Res. 2007 Jan;
51(1):116-34. Review. PMID: 17195249 ]

Michael
truehawk - 20 Feb 2008 03:11 GMT
> > > > I am getting a bit tired of sucking on pecan shell (actually the
> > > > center membrane).  Makes it hard to talk among other things.  Wouldn't
[quoted text clipped - 61 lines]
>
> Michael

Michael

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