Medical Forum / Diseases and Disorders / Sinusitis / February 2008
Make a tannin tea?
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geronimo - 03 Feb 2008 17:06 GMT I am getting a bit tired of sucking on pecan shell (actually the center membrane). Makes it hard to talk among other things. Wouldn't it be possible to make a tea rich in tannins, and sweeten with splenda so it is not so bitter? For that matter why isn't there a product on the market like this?
truehawk - 03 Feb 2008 19:32 GMT > I am getting a bit tired of sucking on pecan shell (actually the > center membrane). Makes it hard to talk among other things. Wouldn't > it be possible to make a tea rich in tannins, and sweeten with splenda > so it is not so bitter? For that matter why isn't there a product on > the market like this? I have made a tea using pecan shells for some time. Mine is not bitter, but there are 300 varieties of pecan, so it is not inconcievable that you have some with bitter membranes. I grind the shells up in the blender and then brew with fragments of orange peal and cloves using a coffee filter. This also works for irrigation solution if you add salt, and a bit of lemon. Splenda would not be a bad idea!
As for a product on the market, I don't have the connections to get it done, and what idiot would drink pecan tea? Only one that knows what it is good for. The FDA pretty much frowns on claims to treat specific problems unless one has studies to back it up, and there are studies, but I don't know if the FDA would consider them sufficient to justify an advertising claim.
If you want a really strong tea tea, brew some Irish Breakfast Tea, which is pretty strong, and add a spoonful of instant..
geronimo - 05 Feb 2008 14:33 GMT Well, about how long does a cup of your brew keep the congestion at bay? It seems like sucking on the pecan membreane might have a time-release effect, a little at a time getting into the saliva and on into the bloodstream.
>> I am getting a bit tired of sucking on pecan shell (actually the >> center membrane). Makes it hard to talk among other things. Wouldn't [quoted text clipped - 25 lines] >which is pretty strong, and add >a spoonful of instant.. truehawk - 06 Feb 2008 03:46 GMT > Well, about how long does a cup of your brew keep the congestion at > bay? It seems like sucking on the pecan membreane might have a [quoted text clipped - 33 lines] > >which is pretty strong, and add > >a spoonful of instant.. Yes, the pacan membrane gives a time release effect, that is why I recommend them. The tea is to use for irrigation. It should strong to take the mucus apart, and have more salt than your saltest deposit, so that the mucus left swells less. There are places in the sinuses that are more accessible from the front, but unless one cleans out the back first, one will experience an ice dam effect, one is not able to breath through the nose for some time. So I alternate sides every day.
Tannin is not effective in the blood stream. It is a topical not a systemic treatment. It binds to the blood, which is a reason why it is effective against coagulese positive bacteria that use your own blood plasma as raw material to make clear, springy, fibrin mucus.
geronimo - 16 Feb 2008 12:27 GMT I am not sure I understand. If topical rather than systemic, then do you mean that the tannins released from pecan shell into the mouth, mixed with saliva, then get into the sinuses? And if its not systemic, then I suppose that means that it is not carried by the bloodstream throughout the body...but you say it binds to the blood?
Are there teas then that are drunk for taste which contain tannins? Which ones would be highest in tannin, if that is the case? But then if not systemic, then whatever goes down into the stomach is not going to have any effect....its just the "topical" effect of having the tannins in the mouth, and travelling into the sinuses that would have beneficial effect?
Have you heard of Xylitol (sugar substitute)? Besides selling the sugar substitute, they have a nasal spray xylitol product ....supposedly it has an anti-bacterial effect. Perhaps this would be good?
>> Well, about how long does a cup of your brew keep the congestion at >> bay? It seems like sucking on the pecan membreane might have a [quoted text clipped - 49 lines] >effective against coagulese positive bacteria that use your own blood >plasma as raw material to make clear, springy, fibrin mucus. truehawk - 16 Feb 2008 17:43 GMT > I am not sure I understand. If topical rather than systemic, then do > you mean that the tannins released from pecan shell into the mouth, [quoted text clipped - 70 lines] > >effective against coagulese positive bacteria that use your own blood > >plasma as raw material to make clear, springy, fibrin mucus. To clarify the nature of the mystery let me ask another question. How do the esters and complex hydrocarbons that give one one's sense of smell get from the mouth to the roof of the sinuses where the nasal hairs come through the skull from the olfactory bulb into the top of the sinuses? I am not sure how the tannins get from the mouth to the sinuses, but they evidently do. The effect is topical, not systemic.
By all means use tea if that makes you more comfortable, I have found very strong tea with a little salt and lemon is considerably better than any other irrigation solution other than the pecan based ones. Black tea contains the most tannins, but the tannin in tea pale in comparison to those available from the humble pecan. Pick out the nutmeats and grind the shells in a blender or coffee grinder. Sieve to remove some of the fine red powder and reserve. Put the fine ground shells in a coffee filter with the peal of an orange and a couple of cloves as an option, and perk with one cup of water per 1/4 cup of ground shell. Brew as you would for coffee. You can add salt just until it tastes slightly salty, and lemon juice at this point, and use it as an irrigation solution, sweeten it an use it as a diffusion solution or for something that is a bit more effective don't put anything in it yet: Put in it a blender and add nutmeats and the fine red powder back to the brew and blend until creamy, then blend twice as long. Add the salt, 1 pk of cherry coolaid (red dye that adheres to the bugs, and V C) to 4 cups of solution, or 1/4th pk per cup, and add splenda to taste. Hold it in your mouth and then lay down inclining your head from one side to the other, about 10 minutes each side will pull out quite a bit of junk. Longer when you are just starting. And when you first start pulling the junk out, the removal will give probably give you a headache, so take some advil before you start, and for me the mucus that I pull down "causes emisis in the primate model". But it has with everything, untreated PND, antibotic washes, and to some degree with the tannin just a bit less so. The tannin will cause the mucus to shrink, but plan on spitting out solution, mucus and all out every 10 minutes or so.
to get an idea of the relative properties of tea, coffee and tannin prepare a cup of each and let sit on an undistrubed spot for a couple of weeks. In my experiment, The coffee showed mold. The tea showed mold. The pecan solution has not shown any growth of any kind so far after 4 weeks. Pecans have been defending their babies against the micro-gang forever. They got it right. But do your own experiment.
judy.n - 18 Feb 2008 12:29 GMT > > I am getting a bit tired of sucking on pecan shell (actually the > > center membrane). Makes it hard to talk among other things. Wouldn't [quoted text clipped - 25 lines] > which is pretty strong, and add > a spoonful of instant.. Why not try Xlitol for a sweetener: unlike nutrasweet, Splenda is not a neurotoxin, but it's somewhat suspect. The xlitol would be sweet and decrease bacterial adherence. IMO Judy
Michael - 19 Feb 2008 18:17 GMT > > > I am getting a bit tired of sucking on pecan shell (actually the > > > center membrane). Makes it hard to talk among other things. Wouldn't [quoted text clipped - 30 lines] > The xlitol would be sweet and decrease bacterial adherence. IMO > Judy "Which ones would be highest in tannin, ..."
Assam Tea is said, by tea specialists, to contain the largest quantity of tannins.
Though green tea is less effective for me as a 'mucous buster' I have started to add an additional single bag of green tea to the wash preparation (four bags black tea to 500 ml. water) to broaden the range of tannins, because the specific tannins in green tea are potentially anti microbial and for this effect tea tannins are supposed to act in a synergistic manner. [ see: The antibacterial activity of plant extracts containing polyphenols against Streptococcus mutans. Caries Res. 2007;41(5):342-9. PMID: 17713333. Antibacterial activity of polyphenol components in oolong tea extract against Streptococcus mutans Caries Res. 2004 Jan-Feb;38(1):2-8. PMID: 14684970. Effects of tannins and related polyphenols on methicillin- resistant Staphylococcus aureus. Phytochemistry. 2005 Sep;66(17): 2047-55. Review. PMID: 16153408 Antibacterial action of several tannins against Staphylococcus aureus. J Antimicrob Chemother. 2001 Oct;48(4):487-91. PMID: 11581226.]
There also may well be other compounds that are more available in the green tea that have a potentially negative effect on the bacteria [Factors affecting the levels of tea polyphenols and caffeine in tea leaves. J Agric Food Chem. 2003 Mar 26;51(7):1864-73. PMID: 12643643 Overview of antibacterial, antitoxin, antiviral, and antifungal activities of tea flavonoids and teas. Mol Nutr Food Res. 2007 Jan; 51(1):116-34. Review. PMID: 17195249 ]
Michael
truehawk - 20 Feb 2008 03:11 GMT > > > > I am getting a bit tired of sucking on pecan shell (actually the > > > > center membrane). Makes it hard to talk among other things. Wouldn't [quoted text clipped - 61 lines] > > Michael Michael
How are you doing? You should now be beyond the three week mark.
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