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Medical Forum / Diseases and Disorders / Sinusitis / February 2008Irrigation with New Waterpik?
Anyone here tried the new Waterpik model (WP-100) for nasal irrigation? Although the Grossan tip and Waterpik's own nasal tips don't fit on it (I would imagine that Waterpik will come out with one that will fit), a couple other companies do produce nasal irrigation tips that fit on this new model Waterpik. So far, I have seen two: www.ethicare.com and http://www.anthonyproducts.com/site/product.cfm?id=AEA13F20-039B-2597-FEC749C357 F29321 (The second one (Agni-4) looks especially nice (they also have one for the WP-60-70 Waterpik models, the Agni-3, which has been discussed here before), as it is much cheaper than all other brands, yet looks virtually unbreakable, as the shaft is made completely out of metal, including the connector at the bottom. (Ethicare's tip has a mostly metal shaft--yet the connector at the bottom is made out of plastic, and that is the part that always breaks!) (Problem with these Agnis--Anthony Products--the company's website will only accept orders of at least $50. (I may call them and see if they'll make an exception. And, I cannot find the product (3 or 4) on any other web site, sold by any retailer.) (If someone reading wants to make a little money, buy several of these from Anthony Prod, and sell them to us at $14 postpaid. That would enable you to collect about $1 shipping (US Mail), and $2.05 in profit on each. I'm sure there would be several buyers here.) There could be other tips that work with the new Waterpik, that I'm not aware of. There will probably be more in the future. Well, back to the topic. Has anyone here irrigated yet with the new WP? If so, what was it like, what differences did you find between it and other WP models, and other brands of electric irrigation devices? Please give us your review. (It certainly is nicer looking than the older model Waterpiks, and the rotary pressure dial on the machine (as the Hydropulse and Interplaks have), is IMO a better way of controlling pressure than the push button pressure control on the handle of the WM-60-70 WPs. I'm not sure if it has any other advantages and disadvantages though. So, if anyone here has used one, please report to us. Thank you.) > Anyone here tried the new Waterpik model (WP-100) for nasal irrigation? [snip] > Well, back to the topic. Has anyone here irrigated yet with the new WP? If so, what was it > like, what differences did you find between it and other WP models, and other brands of > electric irrigation devices? Please give us your review. It's the unit I have/use. There isn't much to say. The Grossan unit I bought did NOT fit the WP-100, so I simply removed the blue diamond-shaped piece and stuck it on the end of my WP-100's tip. Fits fine. Works fine. These things aren't cars, stereos, or laptop computers. There's not a lot of nuance here. It works. It has a "force" or "pressure" adjustment that seems rather linear. There are a number of tips, and storage /for/ those tips in the reservoir lid. Nice feature, but ... who cares? I put my witch's brew in the reservoir, switch it on, and it blows the stuff up my nose. The wand has a temporary off (pause) button that makes it simpler to switch from one nostril to the other. The flow sure /feels/ "pulsatile" to me. When you remove the tip, you can rather see it by watching the stream. It's not a steady, consistent flow. I run a full reservoir of clean water through it when I'm finished irrigating. It's lasted perfectly well for some eight months so far. Can't think of anything else to add. I don't mean to be sarcastic or to trivialize your question, but ... as I say ... it's a pretty simple machine. I understand. These machines have a simple function. I just wondered if there were any advantages to the WP Ultra, besides looks and the rotary pressure control on the machine body. Of course, one possible difference (I don't know if it's the case) would be if the Ultra had less problems, and kept working longer, even with the regular use of saline in it. But it will take more time, of people using it regularly with saline irrigation, to see if it holds up any differently in the long run. (Many of us with older Waterpik models, have found them to break down after a while of use, when used for saline irrigation. However, the WP company has been great about replacing them under their 2 year warranty, without one even having to send the old one back to them.) (And I've read here about problems people have had with the Hydropulse, which has a 1 year warranty, and I don't think as an accommodating a company.) But still, if the Ultra holds up better with long-term regular saline use, that is an advantage. We don't know that yet, though. You say you just put the Grossan tip on the end a the dental irrigation tip that came with your WP. If that works for you, that's fine. However, it could be uncomfortable. (Perhaps you've become used to the discomfort.) The taper at the end of the dental tips is quite different, and will send a narrower, more concentrated stream into your nose (regardless of the tip at the end), and that could be uncomfortable. For instance, I've used Waterpik's own nasal tips for some time. They come with two tips, one that fits the very old WP-20 and 30 models, and another that fits the Wp-60 and 70 models. (I assume that soon they will have one for the WP-100.) There is one rubber (silicon?) tip that one can put on the end of either of the tips. On first glance, looking at them without the rubber tip, they appear identical to the WP dental tips. On looking more closely, however, one sees that the end is not tapered nearly to the same degree as the dental tips. The nasal tip has sometimes broken, always the plastic part that goes into the WP handle. I've tried before to do as you did, and put the rubber tip that came with it on the end of a dental tip. It fits, looks fine. But the stream is different, due to the taper, and can be very uncomfortable. I ended up cutting off the end of the tip, so that it wasn't so tapered, and later bought a new irrigation tip. If you start finding your solution uncomfortable, you might want to try one of the nasal irrigation tips I mentioned made to fit on the WP Ultra. >> Anyone here tried the new Waterpik model (WP-100) for nasal irrigation? > [quoted text clipped - 37 lines] > to trivialize your question, but ... as I say ... it's a pretty simple > machine. > I understand. These machines have a simple function. I just wondered > if there were any advantages to the WP Ultra, besides looks and the [quoted text clipped - 21 lines] > your nose (regardless of the tip at the end), and that could be > uncomfortable. Just cut the tip back to make a larger opening. That is what I did with a WP-72.  SignatureTerry =========================================================== Terry Raymond Crafted Smalltalk 80 Lazywood Ln. Tiverton, RI 02878 (401) 624-4517 traymond at craftedsmalltalk nospam dot com <http://www.craftedsmalltalk.com> =========================================================== > Just cut the tip back to make a larger opening. That > is what I did with a WP-72. Yep, that's what I did too, as the stream was too concentrated with the narrow taper of the dental pik. That improved it, but I still didn't like it too much, and the angle was now different (more straight, less angled, since the tip I cut off was at the angled end), and I eventually bought a new nasal irrigation tip. But---you may have done a better job of cutting it than me (I just used a scissors!), and your resulting tip might be better. If you're comfortable with it, fine. On 1/19/08 1:11 PM, in article FHtkj.2296$k15.1983@trnddc06, "MS" <ms@nospam.com> wrote: > I understand. These machines have a simple function. I just wondered if > there were any advantages to the WP Ultra, besides looks and the rotary [quoted text clipped - 80 lines] >> to trivialize your question, but ... as I say ... it's a pretty simple >> machine. You should check with your insurance to see if they reimburse you for the Hydro Pulse machine which is registered for nasal/sinus irrigation. You may need to get a prescription from the doctor for the insurance company. > You should check with your insurance to see if they reimburse you for the > Hydro Pulse machine which is registered for nasal/sinus irrigation. You may > need to get a prescription from the doctor for the insurance company. I threw away my Hydropulse, because it's impossible to keep the coiled tubing clean and because the tubing's not replaceable. I switched to an inexpensive NeilMed bottle because I can easily clean and replace the tubing completely and not spray mold and other pathogens up my nose after they've accumulated there. The Hydropulse is so badly designed overall that it's very hard to keep it free of dust and germs overall, not to mention the likelihood of mold and pseudomonus growing in the constantly wet, tightly coiled tubing. My Hydropulse was still mostly in working order (parts broke, fell off occasionally it wouldn't turn on for days) but I decided it was an unhealthy, unhygienic device for the reasons listed above. I'm getting better results with my 16 oz NeilMed bottle and my homemade saline mix and I don't spend so much time trying to clean it. For those who want an irrigation machine, the devices at ethicare.com (I've never used one, but they look like they might be made out of superior materials to the Hydropulse) may be worth a look, maybe they're reimbursable as medical equipment, too, I don't know. Susan > For those who want an irrigation machine, the devices at ethicare.com > (I've never used one, but they look like they might be made out of > superior materials to the Hydropulse) may be worth a look, maybe they're > reimbursable as medical equipment, too, I don't know. > > Susan I've used their tips before on a Waterpik, but not their irrigation machine. It is also much more expensive than the dental machines. Also, it is non-pulsatile, the liquid comes out as a steady stream, not pulsating. I don't know if there really is any advantage to pulsatility, but I don't see why there would be any advantage to non-pulsatility either. Since all the other electric irrigation machines do pulsate, just in case there is any advantage to that, and since the dental irrigation machines are much cheaper, I'd rather go with them. Ha Ha! :-) Murray, you always use that as a selling point for your Hydropulse, which is much much more expensive than the Waterpik and Interplak units (you could buy two or three of those for the price of one of yours), although your HP has a lesser warranty (and from what I have read here, much poorer customer service) than those models. (And, from reading here, although I haven't tried the HP myself, many people have had problems with them.) Do you have that text (about the insurance) ready in a clipboard collector, ready to paste into any thread where you think it might fit? Yet, after years of your writing about it being reimbursed by insurance, I have not yet seen one post here (where there have been many HP users) from a user who reported getting reimbursed by insurance for their HP. In any case, if someone received some insurance reimbursement for the purchase of a Hydropulse, I would be very surprised if the amount they were reimbursed was anything close to the difference in purchase price between the HP and the other units. If anyone here has been reimbursed by their insurance for the purchase of a Hydropulse, please report it here. > You should check with your insurance to see if they reimburse you for the > Hydro Pulse machine which is registered for nasal/sinus irrigation. You > may > need to get a prescription from the doctor for the insurance company. > Ha Ha! :-) > [quoted text clipped - 19 lines] > If anyone here has been reimbursed by their insurance for the purchase of > a Hydropulse, please report it here. I don't know why MS and Susan always give Dr Grossan such a hard time. Both are like a instant bad echo whenever Dr Grossan says anything about the unit he sells. Maybe they are against free enterprise? Anyways, why gripe so much publically about something you do not use personally? I like the Hydropulse and my first one was paid 100% as a medical device. Eventually I did wear that one out and bought a replacement. I forgot to charge off the second unit as a medical device. After about 10 months the second unit developed a leak. I emailed customer service and a lady named Dora replied immediately and after mailing in my leaky unit per instructions I had a new unit delivered for free in about 8 business days total. That's my Hydropulse experience. AW > I don't know why MS and Susan always give Dr Grossan such a hard time. Both > are like a instant bad echo whenever Dr Grossan says anything about the unit > he sells. Maybe they are against free enterprise? Anyways, why gripe so > much publically about something you do not use personally? But I've used it for years, only recently mentioned throwing it away. And I have no objections to free enterprise or the offer of a truly superior product. What I take issue with is a merciless promotion of a shoddy one, using false claims that are not backed by any research for said superiority. In addition, a family member who bought a unit on my recco had to have it replaced twice, the second time after a truly horrendous customer service experience, and the first time after having been told different things about solutions and maintenance each time she called. > I like the Hydropulse and my first one was paid 100% as a medical device. > Eventually I did wear that one out and bought a replacement. I forgot to [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > I had a new unit delivered for free in about 8 business days total. That's > my Hydropulse experience. AW TOo bad you couldn't simply post your positive experience without whining about my having shared my negative ones. I don't object to your POV. How are you going to keep that tightly coiled, constantly moist tubing clear of pathogens? Susan > x-no-archive: yes > [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > What I take issue with is a merciless promotion of a shoddy one, using > false claims that are not backed by any research for said superiority. merciless? lol > In addition, a family member who bought a unit on my recco had to have it > replaced twice, the second time after a truly horrendous customer service > experience, and the first time after having been told different things > about solutions and maintenance each time she called. My only contact with customer service was an email response telling me where to send the unit for replacement. very simple >> I like the Hydropulse and my first one was paid 100% as a medical device. >> Eventually I did wear that one out and bought a replacement. I forgot to [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > TOo bad you couldn't simply post your positive experience without whining > about my having shared my negative ones. I don't object to your POV. whining? colorful. > How are you going to keep that tightly coiled, constantly moist tubing > clear of pathogens? > > Susan I wash it out with an ounce of vinegar after using. This must work fine because I've had sinus cultures done twice since last summer and nothing grew either time. AW > merciless? lol Relentless, too, for good measure. > My only contact with customer service was an email response telling me where > to send the unit for replacement. very simple I'm glad you had a good experience. I have no objection to your having shared it. My sister had one good, followed by one truly awful experience. I asked Murray to address it, but he went silent and has never done so. > whining? colorful. Well, really, complaining about others posting their experiences and concerns on a support group? Whining is a charitable description. >>How are you going to keep that tightly coiled, constantly moist tubing >>clear of pathogens? [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > because I've had sinus cultures done twice since last summer and nothing > grew either time. Lack of culturing doesn't prove lack of infection, though. Elizabeth has posted myriad citations and many of us have cultured neg. during florid, acute infections. Murray promotes his "sinus cure." Is your sinusitis cured? If so, why are you still irrigating? There is no way that tightly coiled, narrow tubing isn't incubating pathogens, unless, perhaps, you keep it filled with a bleach or other disinfectant 24/7. I did so, until I decided to stop using it. I think the Hydropulse would be greatly improved by making that tubing easily replaced. I think instructions should be modified to keeping a vinegar or bleach or other antimicrobial solution in it at all times when not in use, to keep the tubing from growing bad guys. Susan > Murray promotes his "sinus cure." Is your sinusitis cured? If so, why > are you still irrigating? That's another thing I resent, when someone pretends they have a cure for an incurable disease. That's hucksterism. I have irrigated for decades. I have probably shot more irrigation fluid through my nostrils than any person on this earth. And I am certainly not "cured", far from it. Yet, I do find that irrigation helps with symptoms, by washing out the gunk that clogs up my nose, sinuses, and throat. It's a miserable, unpleasant activity to perform, but I'd be much more miserable if I didn't do it, perpetually clogged with sticky gunk. So, I continue to irrigate. But I have no false hopes that it will "cure" me, and it is irresponsible to pretend that there is a "cure" (if you just buy the right product, of course). Getting back to my original topic, I just read some of the customer reviews of the new Ultra Waterpik (WP-100). One thing mentioned several times, is that it is much quieter than the other Waterpik models. That certainly could be a plus for some. (I recall reading Steven L.'s posts here years ago, about how his neighbors would complain about the noise from his Waterpik.) So, that seems to be an advantage of this new model. One disadvantage, to me, is the smaller tank size, 650 ml, vs the 1000 ml tank on the WP60-70 models. With that 1000 ml tank, I usually use 3 to 4 tankfuls, for one irrigation session. (Involving a little throat irrigation, after the nasal-sinus irrigation.) But I probably have a greater amount of incredibly thick sticky mucous than anyone in the world, and it takes that much to wash it all out. For most people, one 650ml tankful of the WP-100, or the 500 ml tankful of the Hydro-Pulse or Interplak irrigator, is probably sufficient, or more than sufficient. For me, it would mean more refills. For anyone interested in getting the WP-100, the best price I have seen is on Amazon.com, $46.99 with free shipping (no sales tax here in CA. They have a good return policy as well. I'm considering trying one. (The WP60 model sells for considerably less than that, and the Interplak irrigators still less.) > I don't know why MS and Susan always give Dr Grossan such a hard time. > Both are like a instant bad echo whenever Dr Grossan says anything about > the unit he sells. Maybe they are against free enterprise? Anyways, why > gripe so much publically about something you do not use personally? No intention of "giving Dr. G a hard time. I thought it was funny, how he always puts in a pitch for his products, and has used that "insurance reimbursement" tack over and over. Oh yes, I must be a "communist" for sure, "against free enterprise". ;-) What a laugh! No, not against free enterprise. Yes, I don't like these newsgroups, in this case a forum for sufferers of a disease to discuss their health problem, to be used for free advertising. Of course, that is what is ruining the whole concept of unmoderated newsgroups--they are now all full of spam! In this case, someone pretends to be giving unbiased medical information, when in fact he is selling a product. I think it fitting to point that out, and not just be so gullible, to believe anything told to you by someone with an MD after his name. I have no personal "gripes" about the Hydro-Pulse. I have never used one. I have pointed out that it is much more expensive than other irrigation devices (you object to that being pointed out?), that it has only a one year warranty, while the Waterpik and Interplak irrigation devices have two year warranties, that users here have reported problems with them, and have reported poor customer service by the Hydro-Med company. I'm glad you had a better experience. I am surprised that yours was paid 100% as a medical device. You must have very good insurance. Are you saying that you did not personally have to pay a cent for it? Perhaps you would be willing to give tips here on how you did that. When you write "eventually I did wear that one out", how long a period did you have it, before it broke down? If it was within two years, and was a Waterpik or Interplak irrigator, you would have got a new one for free. I'm glad you had a better experience with Hydro-Med customer service, when your second one leaked. I just pointed out that others here have reported negative experiences with them. I'll also point out, that with the Waterpik company, you don't have to bother shipping the old defective one back to them. You talk to them on the phone, give them the serial number, tell them what the problem is, if it makes a strange sound, they might want you to turn it on, so they can hear it over the phone. Then they'll send you a new one, at no cost to you at all. They don't ask to see your receipt (so you probably could even get a new one under warranty after more than two years, if the serial number is not too old), you don't have to send in the old one, etc. So, although I'm glad you had a better experience than others with your Hydro-Pulse, I think I'll stick to Waterpik myself. > I have no personal "gripes" about the Hydro-Pulse. I have never used one. > I have pointed out that it is much more expensive than other irrigation > devices (you object to that being pointed out?), that it has only a one > year warranty, while the Waterpik and Interplak irrigation devices have > two year warranties, that users here have reported problems with them, and > have reported poor customer service by the Hydro-Med company. or one user reporting frequently > I'm glad you had a better experience. I am surprised that yours was paid > 100% as a medical device. You must have very good insurance. Are you > saying that you did not personally have to pay a cent for it? Perhaps you > would be willing to give tips here on how you did that. It's been a while. As I remember I had to pay for the unit then fill out the paperwork and send it in to insurance for reimbursement. > When you write "eventually I did wear that one out", how long a period did > you have it, before it broke down? If it was within two years, and was a > Waterpik or Interplak irrigator, you would have got a new one for free. Two years of at least twice daily use (my sinusitis was worse then). plus I had lugged the unit around quite a bit besides home use. Eventually the pump or motor gave out and quit working. > I'm glad you had a better experience with Hydro-Med customer service, when > your second one leaked. I just pointed out that others here have reported [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > more than two years, if the serial number is not too old), you don't have > to send in the old one, etc. I never called anyone. I emailed customer service with my invoice number and a description of the problem. Next morning I received an email telling me how and where to return the unit. > So, although I'm glad you had a better experience than others with your > Hydro-Pulse, I think I'll stick to Waterpik myself. Like I have mentioned a couple times before I had a the rubber grommet of a waterpik disintegrate and go up my nose. Yes it was an older waterpik but with the hydropulse I do not have to worry about that happening again. All these machines have their stronger and weaker points. I'm glad the waterpik helps you. AW I've been using the WP100 for irrigation for quite a while now. I broke the bent end off a dental tip and stuck the hose/tip from a NeilMed Rinse Bottle on the end of it. It works well but I'm curious if an actual sinus irrigator tip would work better. Thoughts? The only problems I've had with the WP100 is that the button on the wand gets stuck if I use it. I use salt/baking soda or NeilMed packets and sometimes add apple cider vinegar (which I also drink daily) and have had no problems with the pump going out. I run about a half tank of water through the WaterPik when finished. http://www.anthonyproducts.com/site/product.cfm?id=AEA13F20-039B-2597-FEC749C357 F29321 (The second one (Agni-4) looks especially nice (they also have one for the WP-60-70 Waterpik models, the Agni-3, which has been discussed here before), as it is much cheaper than all other brands, yet looks virtually unbreakable, as the shaft is made completely out of metal, including the connector at the bottom. (Ethicare's tip has a mostly metal shaft--yet the connector at the bottom is made out of plastic, and that is the part that always breaks!) (Problem with these Agnis--Anthony Products--the company's website will only accept orders of at least $50. (I may call them and see if they'll make an exception. And, I cannot find the product (3 or 4) on any other web site, sold by any retailer.) (If someone reading wants to make a little money, buy several of these from Anthony Prod, and sell them to us at $14 postpaid. That would enable you to collect about $1 shipping (US Mail), and $2.05 in profit on each. I'm sure there would be several buyers here.) ---------------------------------------------------------------- An addition to this side discussion: On Saturday I left a message with Anthony Products, telling them I wanted to purchase two of their nasal irrigators, both an AGNI-3 and an AGNI-4. (The latter in case I get the Ultra Waterpik in the future--might as well have that tip too, especially at the price of $10.95 each.) That would total about $22 though, much less than the $50 minimum stated on their web site. I asked if they might make an exception, because I could not find their product at any retailer online, nor had seen it in any store. I just received a phone call back from them. The lady told me that there is one retailer who carries them, and sells them individually, Preferred Products, at 1-800-445-3544. I called that number, and was told that they have the AGNI-3 in stock, and would be receiving the AGNI-4 soon. I asked the price---he told me $26.95 each!!! I said no thanks, that's a ridiculous markup, 2½ times the price the manufacturer sells them for, and much more expensive than any other nasal irrigation tip I have heard of. He said then that they sell them to ENTS, 12 at a time, for a lower price (he didn't tell me how much lower). I said if I wanted to buy 12 I would buy directly from Anthony Products, at $10.95 each. (If I bought two at $26.95 each, that would cost me about the same as buying 5 of them from Anthony Products.!) In any case, if someone knows of another retailer who carries these, please let us know. Or, if someone wants to buy 5 or more of them from Anthony Prod, and sell a few to people here, at a reasonable price, please let us know. Once again, the advantage to this tip is that it appears to be completely unbreakable, it would last you forever, while every other tip I have had breaks after a while, the plastic connector piece that goes into the Waterpik handle, needing replacement. > Anyone here tried the new Waterpik model (WP-100) for nasal irrigation? > [quoted text clipped - 13 lines] > > (It certainly is nicer looking than the older model Waterpiks, and the rotary pressure dial on the machine (as the Hydropulse and Interplaks have), is IMO a better way of controlling pressure than the push button pressure control on the handle of the WM-60-70 WPs. I'm not sure if it has any other advantages and disadvantages though. So, if anyone here has used one, please report to us. Thank you.) I've just purchased five of the AGNI-4 nasal irrigator tips as of January 29, 2008. http://www.anthonyproducts.com/site/product.cfm?id=AEA13F20-039B-2597... I've used the same type nasal irrigator for five years only it was made for an older model Waterpik. I've just replaced the older Waterpik with the new WP-100 ultra Waterpik so it was important to get the tip made for it. I've had good luck with this tip. I've dropped it many times on ceramic tile, took it with me on several vacations and its durable. If anyone is interested in purchasing one of the four I would be happy to sell them at $14.00 each. Email me at rkmccoy25@gmail.com.
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