Medical Forum / Diseases and Disorders / Sinusitis / January 2008
Wobbly
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Byron Hinson - 28 Dec 2007 17:47 GMT Does anyone else feel wobbly sometimes when they have a bought of sinusitis, Seems like I am feeling like that today as well as having a lot of mucus down my throat and pain in the center of my head above my nose where I have a deviated septum
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Steven L. - 28 Dec 2007 23:10 GMT > Does anyone else feel wobbly sometimes when they have a bought of > sinusitis, Sure. And it means your body is trying to tell you something--most likely that you need more rest to fight the sinusitis. So listen to your body. Turn off the damn alarm clock, and just go to bed earlier. Sleep longer.
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judy.n - 29 Dec 2007 01:43 GMT Sinusitis can definitely cause vertigo--your inner ear gets involved in the inflammatory/stuffed up process, as well as general "malaise" that can make you feel wobbly. Hope you feel better soon. Judy
> > Does anyone else feel wobbly sometimes when they have a bought of > > sinusitis, [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > Email: sdlit...@earthlinkNOSPAM.net > Remove the NOSPAM before replying to me. Susan - 29 Dec 2007 02:48 GMT > Sinusitis can definitely cause vertigo--your inner ear gets involved > in the inflammatory/stuffed up process, as well as general "malaise" > that can make you feel wobbly. > Hope you feel better soon. I get vertigo with any infection, likely due to the adrenal suppression it causes as it persists. In fact, lightheadedness, vertigo, tinnitus are all hallmarks of adrenal suppression, too.
Susan
Steven L. - 29 Dec 2007 13:10 GMT >> Sinusitis can definitely cause vertigo--your inner ear gets involved >> in the inflammatory/stuffed up process, as well as general "malaise" [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > I get vertigo with any infection, likely due to the adrenal suppression > it causes as it persists. Judy is closer to the truth here. Even before the infection gets into your inner ear, your brain tends to interpret head stuffiness as light-headedness. I can produce that sensation just with a stiff neck from sleeping in the wrong position.
When the infection hits the inner ear, then true vertigo can result.
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Susan - 29 Dec 2007 14:15 GMT > Judy is closer to the truth here. LOL... thanks, Moses. Put down the tablet, you'll hurt your back.
Even before the infection gets into
> your inner ear, your brain tends to interpret head stuffiness as > light-headedness. I can produce that sensation just with a stiff neck > from sleeping in the wrong position. Your brain doesn't interpret "stuffiness" as lightheadedness, and the dizziness and lightheadedness I refer to occurs with and without sinus troubles or other infection, too, in the case of low adrenal function.
Both things are the truth.
Susan
judy.n - 29 Dec 2007 14:45 GMT There's lots of causes of vertigo: and cervicogenic is one of them.
I have chronic vertigo due to a virus that caused sudden hearing loss many years ago. With relatively quick use of steroids: I was a freshman at U of M and they treated me at the U Hospital, I got most of my hearing back, but my vestibular portion of the nerve is fried. Damaged ears get BPPV (crystals that cause vertigo) and the loss of vestibular function should be compensated by the brain--but sometimes it doesn't do a good job. (I get bouts of BPPV, and no amount of Epleys make it better...) There was a NEJM article a couple of years ago that proved that viral labrynthitis causes permanent vestibular damage: the editorial on the study was written by a physician who got his virus on vacation, and still has bouts of vertigo: it was entitled "Dizzy in Donegal". It argued for used of steroids with sudden onset of vertigo. Good thing the people in Ann Arbor did it for me all those years ago--it had started in Chicago, and they just gave me sudafed. So, as a clueless freshman, it took a few days for me to access the ENT on campus. Earlier steroids could have helped. That said: lots of causes of vertigo. Personally, when my sinuses are stuffed, my vertigo gets worse--it's part stuffiness and part just feeling lousy, so I decompensate. Judy
> >> Sinusitis can definitely cause vertigo--your inner ear gets involved > >> in the inflammatory/stuffed up process, as well as general "malaise" [quoted text clipped - 15 lines] > Email: sdlit...@earthlinkNOSPAM.net > Remove the NOSPAM before replying to me. Susan - 29 Dec 2007 14:50 GMT > There's lots of causes of vertigo: and cervicogenic is one of them. > [quoted text clipped - 17 lines] > Personally, when my sinuses are stuffed, my vertigo gets worse--it's > part stuffiness and part just feeling lousy, so I decompensate. Judy, how do they prove that a virus is the cause? Do they culture it from the nerves or by other means? I ask because that was my sister's dx, years ago, but hers turns out to be, like mine, HPA related and she's recently tested + for cyclic hypercortisolemia, too. Interestingly, she also takes 9.5mg of Premarin, so clearly her body is desperate for adequate CBG to lower her free cortisol. My sister's alleged virus always occurred on vacations, too, when it was sporadic.
I agree that there are many causes of vertigo. For many years, my first hint that I was brewing a sinus infection was room spinning episodes with leg muscle spasms and heaviness/weakness and sleepiness. Taking a high dose of K DUR rids me of spasms and ht, and treating the infection takes care of the rest.
Susan
judy.n - 29 Dec 2007 15:12 GMT Susan, Good point: the diagnosis is made clinically. You can't image the vestibular system--when I go to Mass Eye and Ear, they have brochures for you to donate your temporal bones after death, for research, in the waiting room of the otology department. So, as my ENT has explained to me: when you can't image the system, and no one goes into it, except otologists who are killing it off when they do Meniere's surgery, all vertigo diagnoses are by inference. I've had ENG's, fancier stuff like rotational chairs and balance machines, and they interpret them as showing decreased vestibular function in my "bad" ear. A potential reason for vertigo with vacations is mal de disembarkment: the illusion of movement after movement stops. I would have it every summer when I sailed, and never made the connection: for months, the room wouldn't stop moving. It can occur with flying, and the pressurization of flying can make it worse. The latest common diagnosis is migraine associated vertigo. I do believe in it, but as it is a diagnosis of exclusion, and migraine is so common, I think it's being a bit over used currently. A member of my family truly has it: her migraines are 99% vertigo, and she spent many years in really bad shape until she started on a low dose of medication to suppress migraines. She started with bouts of vertigo as child. In her case, she was hospitalized with intractable migraine, and the neurologist couldn't fathom why she was having terrible vertigo. My ENT "got it" instantly. Interesting about the muscle spasms--I have a few woppers lately, and I"ve had the nasty lingering virus--keeps threatening to be a "real" sinus infection, but doesn't get there, and I've been dizzy and having some major leg cramps. And, I'm using my asthma inhaled steroids.... For me, my first symptoms of sinusiits used to be severe nausea, which was associated with the vertigo, When I had a really bad time with vertigo: about 5 years ago I had a huge episode of BPPV in a yoga class, and the rehab (I did it to extreme--trying to reposition the otolith) likely did further damage to my inner ear--I was so nauseated for a couple of years. My medical director at the time couldn't stand to look at me in meetings because she said it made her feel car sick. Think how I felt. I did call out one day this week when the virus was at it's peak, and when I came back the office, I got the common statement from patients that makes me crazy: "I didn't think doctors get sick." No, we just deal with high volumes of ill people, and have some secret defense weapon. My internist earned my high regard when she admitted-- and she's trained in ID as well as medicine--that she asked a patient to cover her mouth. I've never had the guts to directly say it. It makes my husband---who as a dentist is masked, gloved and gowned, nuts. Judy
> x-no-archive: yes > [quoted text clipped - 35 lines] > > Susan Susan - 29 Dec 2007 15:43 GMT > Susan, > Good point: the diagnosis is made clinically. [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > machines, and they interpret them as showing decreased vestibular > function in my "bad" ear. My sister had those studies, too, and was diagnosed viral many years ago. The vertigo always came on with disabling fatigue, which became permanent til I realized the Xyrem she takes for sleep suppresses cortisol. Once she tapered, slowly, she was no longer bedridden after 7 months pasted to her mattress.
> A potential reason for vertigo with vacations is mal de > disembarkment: the illusion of movement after movement stops. I would > have it every summer when I sailed, and never made the connection: for > months, the room wouldn't stop moving. It can occur with flying, and > the pressurization of flying can make it worse. This seems to be my sister's past experience. Stress also lowers cortisol, and time zone changes cause derangements, too, which some may be more sensitive to.
> The latest common diagnosis is migraine associated vertigo. I do > believe in it, but as it is a diagnosis of exclusion, and migraine is [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > having some major leg cramps. And, I'm using my asthma inhaled > steroids.... OY, VEY, Judy. The spasms are from adrenal suppression, IME. Try some K DUR or NuSalt. It's also the cure for my decades long labile ht.
> For me, my first symptoms of sinusiits used to be severe nausea, > which was associated with the vertigo, When I had a really bad time [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > to look at me in meetings because she said it made her feel car sick. > Think how I felt. So, to add to your differential, nausea is a constant with lowered adrenal function. It varies, from mild to intense, IME, with or without vertigo.
> I did call out one day this week when the virus was at it's peak, > and when I came back the office, I got the common statement from [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > makes my husband---who as a dentist is masked, gloved and gowned, > nuts. I wouldn't hesitate to ask patients to cover their mouths! I'd let them know you need to stay healthy to see all the other sick folks!
Susan
judy.n - 29 Dec 2007 15:54 GMT My allergist, who is semi-retired, discovered adrenal suppression when his wife took Flovent. I passed him the hall yesterday, but didn't talk. I'm admitting defeat here: after 10 days of this virus, my head is clogged and nasty, and I"m feverish. I'm going to over-prescribe antibiotics for myself. It's been over 2 years since I've had take anything beyond the daily biaxiin, and I hate to admit defeat. I see my ENT in a few weeks. Still, before biaxin, I needed antibiotics every 6 weeks...for many years. Judy
> x-no-archive: yes > [quoted text clipped - 71 lines] > > Susan Susan - 29 Dec 2007 15:57 GMT > My allergist, who is semi-retired, discovered adrenal suppression when > his wife took Flovent. I passed him the hall yesterday, but didn't [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > Still, before biaxin, I needed antibiotics every 6 weeks...for many > years. Judy, consider megadosing vit. D, please, I'm dying to hear that it's not a fluke. My sinus infection has responded identically to the way the other folks described. Within a few hours, a ginormous glob drained, the next day a lot of blood and junk cleared out, and now, very little that's icky comes out, even when I irrigate. I'm draining like crazy, no stuffiness at all for the first time in months.
I just want to say, this comes after two months of mega dosing Ceftin then two Augmentin XR 2X per day without luck.
Susan
judy.n - 29 Dec 2007 16:41 GMT Susan, I'm not that brave, yet. I do take 1,000u/day. We use the 50,000 a lot for replacement. I have no doubt it's a natural antibiotic. Ironically, I just finally went to the lab yesterday with the slips from allergist--reconfirm immune deficiency--IgG subset and decreased response to pneumovax, and internist--a general endocrine eval.They'd been sitting on the frigde, and I felt so lousy, it made me compliant. Judy (I'll will take some potassium: wonderfull NEJM article on the utility of potassium in hypertension, about 9 months ago. Our kidneys are set up for a vegetarian diet: high K and low sodium, and set to conserve sodium and get rid of potassium. They said we have "stone age" kidneys.)
> x-no-archive: yes > [quoted text clipped - 20 lines] > > Susan Susan - 29 Dec 2007 18:02 GMT > Susan, > I'm not that brave, yet. I do take 1,000u/day. We use the 50,000 a > lot for replacement. > I have no doubt it's a natural antibiotic. Judy, if you read the research council's statement on toxicity, no bravery is required at all.
> Ironically, I just finally went to the lab yesterday with the slips > from allergist--reconfirm immune deficiency--IgG subset and decreased > response to pneumovax, and internist--a general endocrine eval.They'd > been sitting on the frigde, and I felt so lousy, it made me compliant. I wonder if you've considered a full HPA axis workup along with a pit MRI read by a pit expert neurosurgeon and adrenal C-T?
> Judy > (I'll will take some potassium: wonderfull NEJM article on the utility > of potassium in hypertension, about 9 months ago. Our kidneys are set > up for a vegetarian diet: high K and low sodium, and set to conserve > sodium and get rid of potassium. They said we have "stone age" > kidneys.) Our kidneys are most certainly NOT set up for a vegetarian diet; meat, shellfish and fish and vegetables are higher in potassium than anything else, practically. And meat doesn't raise glucose, which damages kidneys, protein does not.
Susan
Duke - 24 Jan 2008 22:22 GMT > There's lots of causes of vertigo: and cervicogenic is one of them. > [quoted text clipped - 40 lines] > > - Show quoted text - checking back in on the group; amazing similarities ! I took an ambulance ride this summer. I would have bet ( as would the EMTs) I was coronary...sweat---I was soaked---nausea ! I was hurling from things I ate in kindergarten ! and so on. Long story short, nasty bout of vestibular labrynthitis (spell) . Could not walk a straight line for six weeks. Maybe I am still a bit off.
Went back on macrolides ....helps great deal. New insurance has not determined if infusions shall continue yet. I am four weeks past usual 250ml dose of gammunex, and struggling a bit. Slight infection feeling, little bits of yellow/green...nothing severe yet, just low on pep. I am curious to try and go without them altogether. I may get that chance, like it or not ! If they ask for new labs, probably due anyway.
Someone else on in the group had asked what my labs were a month ago. Here is waht I sent him ( in terms of the subclasses) ; see below.
Your thoughts Judy ?
Hey, Duke....
> If you don't mind my asking ... what were your IgG1 and IgG3 levels???
> If it interests you, I'll dig up mine.... I apologize I have not checked in for so long.
IgG subclass 1 Ser qn 420Lr ( ref range 422-1,292)
IgG subclass 3 Ser qn 38Lr ( ref range 41-129)
BTW , IgM 42 ( ref 60-300) , but nothing can or arguably need be done there.
judy.n - 25 Jan 2008 18:49 GMT Duke, I just got mine redone: Ironically, same numbers as 5 years ago, different lab with different reference # IgG1=352 (low) range=382-929 IgG2=451 (ok) range=241-700 IgG3=22 (low nl)--range=22-178 IgG4-2.7 (low) range=4-86 IgE=1.7 Unfortunately I don't have the reference range on this print out--but the numbers are the same values were Subclass 1/3 low in the past. We agreed that I'm essentially low in 1/3/4--with 1 the most clinically important value. I found a good handout--for a patient with zero 2/4. I'll post it. Judy
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