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Medical Forum / Diseases and Disorders / Sinusitis / December 2007

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Re: Sinus Cure Feedback

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rpautrey2 - 21 Dec 2007 05:52 GMT
Has anyone tried my sinus cure method? What do/did you think?
Feedback!
Paul Autrey

The following methods are an effective treatment and cure for
sinusitis,flu,cold,mcs,etc. The following information is from a post I
made in another group. The Q-tip method and electronic electrode
placement
instructions are at the bottom of this post. Paul

Re: Sinus Drainage Methods

I used a Beck blood electrifier(BE-thumper) with adjustable frequency
control the first time I discovered the area I mentioned applying the
q-tips to(Original Post Below). I do not use the BE in the intended
manner and I built my own. I use 12 gauge silver wire electrodes with
wetted cotton flannel sleeves. I used both 4hz and about 60hz
(preferred-frequency where the optic nerve/eye quits flashing) and
started with the lowest current setting working my way up to a
tingling sensation. Apply the electrodes to the same area as the q-
tips but instead of moving them around vigorously, find a sensitive
area and leave them for 15-20 seconds before moving them again.
Repeat this interval and/or move slowly around in the mentioned area.
It may take up to 4-5 minutes to start a violent sneezing attack
coupled with the drainage. Be prepared, I voided what tasted like a
virus and it actually gave me slight cold/flu symptoms while
performing this procedure. Keep on slowly stimulating the area until
you quit sneezing. I had a violent sneezing attack that lasted about
4 minutes before it quit. The first time I probably voided about a
1/5 cup of salty virus tasting mucus and I got instant relief. I
found doing it several times(2-3) daily was the best approach. It
took about 2 weeks for the virus taste to go away and the mucus
expelled was far less than at the beginning. I didn't have sinusitis
again for several years and I didn't give it time to set in before
attacking it. Two cautions: 1)The drainage may be contagious, so be
careful(CS,GSE,H2O2);2)On a few occasions a small amount of blood
would come out with the mucus but I never had a running nose bleed
and I never worried about it.

Clean every thing you sneeze/sling mucus on. You will probably get
your shirt wet with mucus. Be careful! Don't spread infection!!!

I have posted my favorite electronic method(BK) along with the Beck
method on the Google sinusitis group under the subject, "Sinus
Drainage Methods". This works much better, much faster, you don't
need to use it as often or as long to get the job done, and you can't
feel anything. I use a BK 4011A Function Generator(standard
electronic test instrument) with the same electrodes and placement
used with the Beck. The settings are: 315Khz and 320Khz(start with
one frequency for 5 minutes then go to the other for same - be
patient, sometimes you think it's not going to work and it takes you
by suprise), -20db attenuation(down 20db output-very important), full
positive DC offset, square wave, and full output level(but down 20db;
if you don't do this the output is very uncomfortable).

This is probably more than you wanted to know. The BK can be ordered
from electronics parts houses and probably costs about $350.00. You
can get a Beck schematic off of the internet to build your own. Most
parts can be bought at Radio Shack. You can also find new and
complete Beck units($50.00-$100.00) on the internet. I made my own
electrodes with 12 gauge silver wire and they are about 1.25 inches
long. Use cotton cloth covers for the electrodes. I wet the
electrodes with colloidal silver or distilled water. You can find
silver wire on the internet.

Good Luck,
Paul

(Sinus Drainage Methods)

>  I have posted these sinus drainage methods
> in several groups but this is not one of them.
>For quick sinus relief
> try the following: Slide your finger down the ridge of your nose
> until you come to the junction where bone becomes cartilage.
>Directly
> under your finger at this junction, on the ceiling of each nostril
> are two very sensitive areas about 3/4" in diameter. Take two >wet q-
> tips and insert one into each nostril. Massage the sensitive areas
> simultaneously, and vigorously but gently. Within a few minutes >you
> will experience a violent sneezing attack followed by sinus cavity
> drainage. Continue to massage until you get relief. Do this
> frequently. I cured my sinusitis using a similar method
>(electronic).
> It's a good idea to gargle and rinse your nasal passages with an
> alternative antibiotic like cs or gse to prevent the introduction
>of
> drained infection into your throat, lungs, etc. Also clean anything
> you sneezed on. Paul
Susan - 21 Dec 2007 15:18 GMT
> Has anyone tried my sinus cure method? What do/did you think?
> Feedback!

You've GOT to be kidding.

Susan
Steven L. - 21 Dec 2007 15:37 GMT
> x-no-archive: yes
>
>> Has anyone tried my sinus cure method? What do/did you think?
>> Feedback!
>
> You've GOT to be kidding.

Don't laugh.
In Russia, they actually experimented with putting radium needles into
the nose to kill the sinus infection with radiation.  (I guess it's
analogous to how they can insert radioactive seeds into a man's prostate
gland to cure him of prostate cancer.)  It must not have worked, because
I don't believe they ever published their findings.

Signature

Steven L.
Email:  sdlitvin@earthlinkNOSPAM.net
Remove the NOSPAM before replying to me.

rpautrey2 - 21 Dec 2007 15:43 GMT
Steve, if it didn't work I wouldn't have posted it. PA

> > x-no-archive: yes
>
[quoted text clipped - 14 lines]
> Email:  sdlit...@earthlinkNOSPAM.net
> Remove the NOSPAM before replying to me.
neil0502@yahoo.com - 21 Dec 2007 16:31 GMT
> Steve, if it didn't work I wouldn't have posted it. PA

Um ... I think anybody with even a passing familiarity with the
Internet should know THAT's not true.

Methinks the lady doth protest too much, personally.....

YMMV.
rpautrey2 - 21 Dec 2007 17:09 GMT
YMMV, I'm nothing special, but I'm also not "just anybody".  I can
duplicate my results everytime. It works. My main problem/obstacle
will be(is) the tremendous dent in the income of alternative and
orthodox medical competition. Paul

On Dec 21, 10:31 am, neil0...@yahoo.com wrote:

> > Steve, if it didn't work I wouldn't have posted it. PA
>
[quoted text clipped - 4 lines]
>
> YMMV.
rpautrey2 - 21 Dec 2007 16:13 GMT
At one time the medical establishment  used x-radiation treatment to
for chronic sinusitis. Dangerous/hazardous! It also probably didn't
work. In the past I used Dr.Ivan Ivker's methods and they don't
compare to mine. Palliative at best. I come along and offer something
that works everytime and nobody pays any attention or they ridicule my
methods. It doesn't make sense. If a person is suffering with chronic
sinusitis/MCS, and they don't at least try the Q-0tip method, they
will suffer uselessly.  Paul Autrey

> > x-no-archive: yes
>
[quoted text clipped - 12 lines]
> --
> Steven L.
Susan - 21 Dec 2007 17:37 GMT
> Don't laugh.
> In Russia, they actually experimented with putting radium needles into
> the nose to kill the sinus infection with radiation.

Are you endorsing that method, too?

Susan
rpautrey2 - 21 Dec 2007 17:47 GMT
Susan: Do you recommend the use of unnecessary drugs and surgeries
that don't work, in place of free and effective cures? What do you
"endorse"? And again, why are you removing your post? Paul

> x-no-archive: yes
>
[quoted text clipped - 5 lines]
>
> Susan
Susan - 21 Dec 2007 18:12 GMT
> Susan: Do you recommend the use of unnecessary drugs and surgeries
> that don't work, in place of free and effective cures? What do you
> "endorse"? And again, why are you removing your post? Paul

I don't sell or "endorse" anything, I just share experiences.  I don't
demand that others try what I've tried and report back to me, either.

Why I choose not to archive my posts is, quite frankly, none of your
business.

Susan
rpautrey2 - 21 Dec 2007 18:27 GMT
> I don't sell or "endorse" anything, I just share experiences.  I don't
> demand that others try what I've tried and report back to me, either.
[quoted text clipped - 3 lines]
>
> Susan

Susan: Please "share experiences". Or is that none of my business?
You have made no useful contribution to this thread.

Paul
Susan - 21 Dec 2007 20:29 GMT
> Susan: Please "share experiences". Or is that none of my business?
> You have made no useful contribution to this thread.

I'm sorry, but I'm not interested in engaging with you on this topic.

Susan
rpautrey2 - 21 Dec 2007 20:59 GMT
>> rpautrey2 wrote:
> > Susan: Please "share experiences". Or is that none of my business?
[quoted text clipped - 3 lines]
>
> Susan

Susan: You should read the following post and think about its
implications. PA

PM: Chronic sinusitis is the most common chronic disease in the US,
and probably the world. Most people that have it don't know it. That
doesn't mean they don't have symptoms. They and their doctors have
not
made the connections. Chemical sensitivities, environmental
allergies,
headaches, migraines, nasal congestion, psychiatric symptoms,
cognitive dysfunction, peculiar behavior, strange thoughts/beliefs,
vision problems, occular pressure, facial pressure/pain, subclinical
meningitis/encephalitis, and various other physical, neurological,
psychological, and spiritual symptoms.  If my methods are as
effective
as I say they are, which they are, people are going to wonder about
what took place when my various methods totally changed their symptom
picture and cured them. Some people will think it is an act of God,
some will say it is the devil, some will say placebo, some will
wonder, and others will give the credit to my sinus drainage
technology. Paul

On Dec 21, 1:38 pm, "Peter Moran" <pmo...@internode.on.net> wrote:

- Hide quoted text -
- Show quoted text -

> "rpautrey2" <rpautr...@gmail.com> wrote in message

> news:14d19701-6291-41f5-b8b2-4b126cfdc990@t1g2000pra.googlegroups.com...
> PM: Don't  you think that a person with chronic sinus disease would
> believe that something mystical had happened when they were cured with
> my electonic sinus drainage method? You can't feel any electrical
> sensation, but it drains your sinuses. Paul Autrey

> Why mystical?  Are you yourself saying there is no earthly reason why the
> device should work?

> All I am saying is such experiences, and especially such second or third
> hand stories are unreliable evidence that a treatment method has intrinsic
> medical activity.   There can be many other reasons why people get better or
> seem to get better from even chronic conditions and nothing has been more
> repeatedly demonstrated within medicine.

> PM

> On Dec 21, 1:00 am, "Peter Moran" <pmo...@internode.on.net> wrote:

> > "Citizen Jimserac" <Jimse...@gmail.com> wrote in message

> >news:4263db9c-f268-424a-acdd-f015696a6ee4@b40g2000prf.googlegroups.com...

> > > Your comments are fine as far as they go but they do
> > > not go far enough.

> > > Yours is exactly the attitude of professional physicists
> > > of the 1890's who foolishly thought that they had
> > > discovered all the basic laws of the universe
> > > and that all that remained was to refine them.

> > > Along came a Swiss patent clerk, and a few other
> > > individuals, and the entire world of physics was turned
> > > topsy turvy for at least the next half century.

> > > What is the missing factor from your analysis?
> > > It is the recognition that we are not omniscient
> > > and that we MUST leave room for the possibility
> > > of the unkown.

> > Of course. But we must also allow that we have a pronounced tendency to
> > fool ourselves, especially in medicine.

> > Medicine is the only area of science where so many different forms of
> > "unknown science" are being put forward as the explanation for a single
[quoted text clipped - 7 lines]
> > toxins, innumerable deficiency theories, detoxifying through the feet and
> > dozens of other strange ways of getting healthy .

> > They all shelter behind "science doesn't know anything" when the real
> > problem lies in their inability to show that they are not simply allowing
> > themselves to be fooled into thinking they have an active treatment by
> > placebo reactions, observational biases, spontaneous events and basic
> > human
> > suggestibiity.

> > That is not to say that people are not deriving some benefits from the use
> > of these methods as placebo But you are always going to be in for an
[quoted text clipped - 5 lines]
> > is
> > to enable us to avoid fooling ourselves.

> > > The metaphysical implications of Homeopathy,
> > > if it is a valid science, are, as the original poster's
> > > intriguing article suggests, profound.

> > No, alternative supporters commonly retreat into mysticism when science is
> > not working out for them. But they have to be able to show the mystical,
> > immaterial world interacting with the material world at some point.
> > Otherwise it is all psychology.

> > > To ignore those implications, and to ignore the possibility
> > > that the conventional views may be only approximations
> > > to the truth is to circumscribe the scope of your thinking
> > > SOLELY on the basis of the known and to therefore
> > > preclude the possibility that valid research will modify
> > > or even overthrough that convention.

> > > Ask any scientist,particularly research scientists and you will
> > > learn that the movement of progress if rarely logical and linear
> > > but almost always consists of unexpected twists and turns.

> > True. But novel hypotheses or theories are always *forced* upon us. They
> > surface because they are the only, or the most likely explanation for
[quoted text clipped - 4 lines]
> > serve
> > as medicine.

> > PM
neil0502@yahoo.com - 21 Dec 2007 21:28 GMT
> >> rpautrey2 wrote:
> > > Susan: Please "share experiences". Or is that none of my business?
[quoted text clipped - 18 lines]
> meningitis/encephalitis, and various other physical, neurological,
> psychological, and spiritual symptoms.

Many of us who participate on this NG understand what sinusitis is all
about.  Many of us would also agree that some people have it and don't
realize that they have it.

You don't persuade people that you have the CURE FOR their problem by
identifying that a problem exists (as you seem to be).

So ... that said .... let's move on.....

> If my methods are as
> effective
[quoted text clipped - 4 lines]
> wonder, and others will give the credit to my sinus drainage
> technology. Paul

Where you lose me, and perhaps others, is once you get into the whole
Delusions of Grandeur thing.

Go work with a teaching college to see what kind of randomized,
controlled, clinical test you all can arrange, then report back with
the peer-reviewed results.  I think people would be very interested.

But the notion that you "cured yourself --" while perhaps interesting
-- isn't particularly compelling.

The notion that you've "cured yourself" repeatedly seems to be an
oxymoron, no?  Like somebody who quits smoking ... every single day.

As I say, and -- hopefully -- you'll view it as constructive
criticism: the merit in your message -- at least for me -- is
hopelessly drowned out in its delivery.
rpautrey2 - 21 Dec 2007 22:37 GMT
I actually discovered this method while taking a microbiology class
and lab. I cultured my sinus drainage. I have tried to get the
interest of orthodox and alternative medicine. The whole idea behind
sinus drainage is logical and it makes perfect sense. All I can do is
try to get enough people to cure themselves and to speak up for these
methods, so that government and medicine will be forced to persue
valid scientific research. This method will have significant impact on
our society and economy, unless it is suppressed. Greed, power, and
control! PA

On Dec 21, 3:28 pm, neil0...@yahoo.com wrote:

> > >> rpautrey2 wrote:
> > > > Susan: Please "share experiences". Or is that none of my business?
[quoted text clipped - 27 lines]
>
> So ... that said .... let's move on.....

Move on to what? Nothing. I haven't come across anything new in the
area of traditional or alternative sinusitis treatment. That was the
primary reason I joined this group. Most of you belong to the group
because you haven't found a solution. I have given you a solution. If
you don't try it you will never know what you missed out on. PA
neil0502@yahoo.com - 21 Dec 2007 23:02 GMT
> I actually discovered this method while taking a microbiology class
> and lab. I cultured my sinus drainage. I have tried to get the
[quoted text clipped - 45 lines]
> because you haven't found a solution. I have given you a solution. If
> you don't try it you will never know what you missed out on. PA

I'll re-make the important points from my previous post ... since you
seem to have snipped them:

Where you lose me, and perhaps others, is once you get into the whole
Delusions of Grandeur thing.

Go work with a teaching college to see what kind of randomized,
controlled, clinical test you all can arrange, then report back with
the peer-reviewed results.  I think people would be very interested.

But the notion that you "cured yourself --" while perhaps interesting
-- isn't particularly compelling.

The notion that you've "cured yourself" repeatedly seems to be an
oxymoron, no?  Like somebody who quits smoking ... every single day.

As I say, and -- hopefully -- you'll view it as constructive
criticism: the merit in your message -- at least for me -- is
hopelessly drowned out in its delivery.
rpautrey2 - 21 Dec 2007 23:57 GMT
neilO:

I will refrain from returning the insults, but I am curious about why
you are in this group. Sometimes I wonder if people don't want to get
well because the only thing they know is being sick. They wouldn't
know what to do if they were well.

If somebody invented and built a 4000 pound, 200mpg car, would they
need to go to an engineering school and get a PhD so they could teach
people how it is built? Why couldn't they just tell them and show
them? Let others reproduce it. My delusions tell me that you would get
more sinus relief massaging your nasal passages with 2 wet Q-tips than
whatever you are now using.

The way I see it, you and some others in this group exist for the
purpose of destroying hope in people with chronic sinusitis. If the
information I am putting out is over your head, let it go, but don't
dissuade others from trying it. You don't have to use electronics, the
q-tips are very effective.  Bayberry snuff. Strong GSE nasal wash. You
don't have to go high-tech, but it does work better.

I'm going to leave you people alone. If you want/need help email me. I
have several other outlets and I have recently begun to make what may
be some promising contacts. I already have more education than I need
so the PhD teaching/clinical testing route is not an option.

Paul

> > > So ... that said .... let's move on.....
>
[quoted text clipped - 3 lines]
> > because you haven't found a solution. I have given you a solution. If
> > you don't try it you will never know what you missed out on. PA

> I'll re-make the important points from my previous post ... since you
> seem to have snipped them:
[quoted text clipped - 15 lines]
> criticism: the merit in your message -- at least for me -- is
> hopelessly drowned out in its delivery
Susan - 22 Dec 2007 00:28 GMT
> I'm going to leave you people alone.

Great news!

Susan
rpautrey2 - 22 Dec 2007 00:40 GMT
rpa2

> x-no-archive: yes
>
[quoted text clipped - 3 lines]
>
> Susan
neil0502@yahoo.com - 22 Dec 2007 00:40 GMT
> I will refrain from returning the insults,

No insults.

Surprises me not at all, though, that you couldn't take constructive
criticism.

>but I am curious about why
> you are in this group. Sometimes I wonder if people don't want to get
> well because the only thing they know is being sick. They wouldn't
> know what to do if they were well.

Perhaps you could re-read my comments to you.

Or ... perhaps not.

> If somebody invented and built a 4000 pound, 200mpg car, would they
> need to go to an engineering school and get a PhD so they could teach
> people how it is built? Why couldn't they just tell them and show
> them?

Mechanical engineering is much simpler than biology.  Many more moving
parts, much more poorly understood.  That's why the appearance of
success in one person must be scrutinized before "EUREKA!" is shouted
to the mountaintops.

> Let others reproduce it. My delusions tell me that you would get
> more sinus relief massaging your nasal passages with 2 wet Q-tips than
> whatever you are now using.
>
> The way I see it, you and some others in this group exist for the
> purpose of destroying hope in people with chronic sinusitis.

Uh .... okay.

> If the
> information I am putting out is over your head, let it go, but don't
> dissuade others from trying it.

Where, exactly, did I do this?

> You don't have to use electronics, the
> q-tips are very effective.  Bayberry snuff. Strong GSE nasal wash. You
> don't have to go high-tech, but it does work better.

I don't know that the histrionics or the martyrdom are helping your
case, either.  I made some reasonable suggestions, and attempted to
make them as constructively as I can.

> I'm going to leave you people alone. If you want/need help email me. I
> have several other outlets and I have recently begun to make what may
> be some promising contacts. I already have more education than I need
> so the PhD teaching/clinical testing route is not an option.

Nice non sequitur.
rpautrey2 - 21 Dec 2007 15:42 GMT
Why would you ridicule my method and then pull your post? PA

> x-no-archive: yes
>
[quoted text clipped - 4 lines]
>
> Susan
judy - 22 Dec 2007 01:08 GMT
> Has anyone tried my sinus cure method? What do/did you think?
> Feedback!
[quoted text clipped - 87 lines]
>
> - Show quoted text -

i have long used q tips to try and stimulate my nose so that I can
(hopefully) sneeze out congestion and it does work...Only trouble is
that the methods makes my nose very sore and dry (even more than
usual)...I have trouble visualizing exactly what kind of stimulation
machine you are putting together....I wish there was a picture of
it.....thanks for sharing your methods...some things sound
unconventional but then we need to consider every possibility when
seeking relief that is not available with conventiional medical
approaches...thanks...judyj
judy.n - 22 Dec 2007 14:02 GMT
This was in another post: but it has relevance here:
http://www.quackwatch.org/01QuackeryRelatedTopics/Cancer/clark.html
Judy N

> > Has anyone tried my sinus cure method? What do/did you think?
> > Feedback!
[quoted text clipped - 97 lines]
> seeking relief that is not available with conventiional medical
> approaches...thanks...judyj
truehawk - 29 Dec 2007 05:02 GMT
> This was in another post: but it has relevance here:http://www.quackwatch.org/01QuackeryRelatedTopics/Cancer/clark.html
> Judy N
[quoted text clipped - 100 lines]
> > seeking relief that is not available with conventiional medical
> > approaches...thanks...judyj

If you have done any work on mixed micobio communities and then looked
at those that grow in and on people, and then figured out what TINY
precentage are actually characterized by the present culture methods,
then you know that there is a grain of truth in Dr Clark's work. While
she never wrote the word biofilm, she saw that there is a lot more
there than those 600 or so pathogens that we have culture protocols
for, and concluded that the other 99% of the living cells there might
have some influence on the disease process.

When you can only culture less than one precent of what is there, what
are the odds that what you are culturing is the significant species,
or just one among many that occupy interchangeable positions within
the biofilm community.
When I had my first sinus cultures done, there was no culture protocol
for pseudonymous f. Later a culture method was developed. Did that
mean that pesudo did not kill people? Nope, it just meant that it did
so UNDETECTED.
99% of bacteria live in multispecies communities and will not grow
without their complimentary species. They will not be detected with
culture based methods.
Just do a search on unculturable bacteria and see what comes up.

To date I still do not think that anyone has run a community genome on
sinus mucus to see what species are actually there that can not be
cultured.
I continue to wonder why the Whitehead Institute has not done it.

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