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Medical Forum / Diseases and Disorders / Sinusitis / January 2004

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Puzzled by inflammation, not infection, post virus?!

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Tom - 23 Dec 2003 23:57 GMT
Hi!

I used to have infection problems until I learned about irrigation, which
solved my ongoing infection issues.

However, one problem remains. Whenever I get a cold, even though I am careful
to irrigate a lot and not blow my nose too hard, I ALWAYS get inflamed sinuses
for ages afterwards - often several weeks. There doesn't seem to be infection -
no unpleasant mucous - just this very intense, closed, stuffy feeling - not
possible to breathe through nose.

The "specialist" I saw was pretty much useless (as well as highly patronising),
and seemed to know less than I did (having had a lot of help from the web and
this NG in particular).

I get by until it calms down by using a Sinex spray. I know people aren't
supposed to use these for more than a week, but it's the only way I can get
through this period each time. I also think that by using this spray to keep
the airwaves open, along with regular irrigating, keeps me infection-free,
unlike the bad old days.

The specialist's idea of using a steroid spray hasn't proved very effective, by
the way.

Any clues? It's really starting to irritate me.

Many thanks,

Tom
UK
Can do - 24 Dec 2003 00:55 GMT
===> Tom, you wrote: "I used to have infection problems until I learned
about irrigation, which solved my ongoing infection issues. However, one
problem remains. Whenever I get a cold, even though I am careful to irrigate
a lot and not blow my nose too hard, I ALWAYS get inflamed sinuses for ages
afterwards - often several weeks. There doesn't seem to be infection -" <===

Infections don't always behave the same way for everyone. Low grade or
dormant sinus infections can last for years, and only show their ugly side
when they become more active.

What type of irrigation do you use? If a saline spray, it will help rinse
the outside of the nasal passages and outside of the sinuses, but won't kill
an infection. If you are only irrigating the outside of the nasal passages,
the liquid you use will never get deep within the sinuses, where the harmful
bacteria and infections may lurk.

I am not a doctor, just an ex-fellow sinus sufferer who found something that
worked for me, and want to tell others about my "upside down" flooding
process to heal the sinuses.
Tom - 24 Dec 2003 15:20 GMT
>I am not a doctor, just an ex-fellow sinus sufferer who found something that
>worked for me, and want to tell others about my "upside down" flooding
>process to heal the sinuses.

I use an Emcur flask which I feel was the turning point for me in terms of
avoiding infections.

I've recently read a few posts re. the upside down thing. I used to hold my
head upside down at points during the irrigation process, so I have resumed
this as it seems a good idea.

Tom
Don Brady - 24 Dec 2003 05:02 GMT
>Hi!
>
[quoted text clipped - 21 lines]
>
>Any clues? It's really starting to irritate me.

I do not think there is any solution other than avoiding colds.  The body is
setting up the inflammation to ward off more of them.

I have avoided a cold for a year and a half now ad I think that has played a
role in my improving sinuses.

I have stopped colds that were starting on several occasions by immediately
increasing protein intake and sleeping right away.  Those happen to work for me
(I am a light eater normally) - I gather they do not necessarily work for
others....
Tom - 24 Dec 2003 15:22 GMT
>I have stopped colds that were starting on several occasions by immediately
>increasing protein intake and sleeping right away.

I agree that not getting colds is the best prevention. I find I can go ages
without a cold, but once I get one, I seem vulnerable to another. I also work
myself quite hard - in the office, in the gym...and leisure-wise..not an ideal
combo for immunity to viruses I imagine.

Never heard of the protein thing - that's interesting. I eat quite a lot of
protein anyway but perhaps I'll try that one myself next time.

Other than that I'm aware of zinc - extra doses at onset of cold, and
echinacea.

Tom
Steven Litvintchouk - 24 Dec 2003 15:41 GMT
>>I have stopped colds that were starting on several occasions by immediately
>>increasing protein intake and sleeping right away.
[quoted text clipped - 9 lines]
> Other than that I'm aware of zinc - extra doses at onset of cold, and
> echinacea.

If you take zinc, make sure it's zinc ACETATE lozenges like Cold-Eeze.
Those cheap zinc gluconate lozenges you can buy in various stores are
frequently combined with flavorings and other things that inactivate the
zinc.  This may account for the mixed results of controlled studies on
zinc for the common cold.

Effective zinc acetate leaves your mouth very dry (astringent), a side
effect of zinc ions.  If your mouth doesn't feel dry after taking zinc,
then it's not working.

-- Steven L.
Tom - 28 Dec 2003 19:40 GMT
I'm really fed up with this now. I'm irrigating  with warm saline and my
sinuses are still closing up, a whole month after the cold virus which sparked
it off.

There doesn't appear to be infection, at least nothing acute and evident, just
a completely closed up feeling which I think is a disproportionate inflammatory
reaction.

I'm still having to use a decongestant; without it I feel pretty rough and
irritable. I'm sure the "specialist" I saw at hospital would advise against it,
but what choice do I have?

Are there any longer-term anti-inflammatories I can take to bring this back
into order? I thought I'd seen the worst of my sinus problems but this is
really annoying me now.

Any help appreciated -

Tom
jon banquer - 28 Dec 2003 20:08 GMT
> I'm really fed up with this now. I'm irrigating  with warm saline and my
> sinuses are still closing up, a whole month after the cold virus which sparked
[quoted text clipped - 15 lines]
>
> Tom

Tom,

Have you tried Can Do's upside down techniques with hydrogen peroxide ?

Over four weeks now of continued improvement for me ! :>)

jon
Tom - 28 Dec 2003 20:17 GMT
>Have you tried Can Do's upside down techniques with hydrogen peroxide ?

Not with h.p. Jon, but I am now dipping my head down during irrigation.

Tom
Can do - 28 Dec 2003 21:31 GMT
===> jon banquer, you wrote"Tom, Have you tried Can Do's upside down
techniques with hydrogen peroxide ?

Over four weeks now of continued improvement for me ! :>)

jon" <===

Jon. I was wondering how you were doing. Don't want to bug you too much.
Glad to hear that you still improving. It takes a long time for damaged
sinus membranes to heal. Are you still getting discolored mucus? When the
mucus becomes almost totally clear most of the time, that'll be the sign
that the sinuses are healed, IMHO. At least, that is what happened to me.

There are now three people doing the "upside down" sinus flooding, at
http://www.healthboards.com/boards/showthread.php?t=129210 , James123,
darkman, and Becky123, with varying degrees of success. It seems, as though,
if someone just has infected sinuses, but doesn't have the allergic rhinitis
(hay fever), then all that is required is the "upside down" process. But if
someone has something like allergic rhinitis also, then there are other
steps that must be taken to get to wide open and well working sinuses. It is
a learning process for everyone, and we are all working together. No one has
all the answers, but, at least, we are getting good results!

Let me know how it is going, when you get a chance.

Thanks..... CanDo.
Don Brady - 28 Dec 2003 20:09 GMT
>I'm really fed up with this now. I'm irrigating  with warm saline and my
>sinuses are still closing up, a whole month after the cold virus which sparked
[quoted text clipped - 11 lines]
>into order? I thought I'd seen the worst of my sinus problems but this is
>really annoying me now.

I forget  whether you are using steroid sprays but these should work and can be
taken indefinitely....  You can try Nasonex - you need a prescription but even
a General Practitioner can give you one.
Tom - 28 Dec 2003 20:19 GMT
>I forget  whether you are using steroid sprays but these should work and can
>be
>taken indefinitely....

Thanks for the tip Don. The specialist did mention this, in fairness, but I
didn't see much change. That said, it's quite possible I didn't use it for long
enough, and I didn't use it indefinitely.

I'm seeing the doctor tomorrow so I guess I'll ty this again.

Tom
Don Brady - 28 Dec 2003 20:34 GMT
>>I forget  whether you are using steroid sprays but these should work and can
>>be
[quoted text clipped - 5 lines]
>
>I'm seeing the doctor tomorrow so I guess I'll ty this again.

I find that one may need to use it for a month of more.

Also the aim  is critical to try to get it into the "middle meatus" opening
near your sinuses.    You need to aim outward toward the outer edge of the eye
to accomplish this.   Eventually it will saturate quite deep.  Also try doing
it last thing at night and lyoing down rigght after.

Those who have had surgery could also try Nasarel as it may penetrate deeper in
that case.
Tom - 29 Dec 2003 17:16 GMT
>I find that one may need to use it for a month of more.

>Also the aim  is critical to try to get it into the "middle meatus" opening
>near your sinuses

Will bear these comments in mind; going to get another prescription today.

Regards,

Tom
iJah - 28 Jan 2004 09:29 GMT
>>>I forget  whether you are using steroid sprays but these should work and can
>>>be
[quoted text clipped - 5 lines]
>>
>>I'm seeing the doctor tomorrow so I guess I'll ty this again.

>I find that one may need to use it for a month of more.
>
[quoted text clipped - 5 lines]
>Those who have had surgery could also try Nasarel as it may penetrate deeper in
>that case.

it sure would be nice to see a diagram of how to 'aim' the spray -
indicating the exact 'target' area in the nose. i get that you aim it
towards the eye, but at what angle - are you shooting for the lower
part of the nose, the mid section of the nose, a little above
mid-section, or up to the top all the way.
Tony Banana - 29 Dec 2003 00:50 GMT
Did you use a nose spray like Afrin for more than
3 days in a row ?

If you did, the swelling could be a "rebound" effect.

If you think this is what happened, let your doctor
know and he will probably treat you with an anti-inflammatory
steroid like a medrol pack.

Tony

PS: If the above isn't true, do you have allergies ?  Try
taking an antihistamine for a couple of days and see if
your nose opens up.
Tom - 29 Dec 2003 17:19 GMT
>Did you use a nose spray like Afrin for more than
>3 days in a row ?
>
>If you did, the swelling could be a "rebound" effect.

If Afrin is a decongestant like a Vicks Sinex, then yes. I have overused it by
some way, but what usually happens is the post-virus condition gradually gets
better, with longer periods between uses of the spray, and the I'll wake up one
morning  and not have to use it. This has been the pattern many times, but in
this most recent case it's proving more stubborn than  usual.

I do think I have allergy but in the UK there's no way you can get any sort of
decent allergy testing without paying (substantially) privately.

Thanks for your help -

Tom
iJah - 28 Jan 2004 09:49 GMT
>I'm really fed up with this now. I'm irrigating  with warm saline and my
>sinuses are still closing up, a whole month after the cold virus which sparked
[quoted text clipped - 15 lines]
>
>Tom

i'm in the *exact* same situation as you. got a nasty cold or 'the
flu' and there was a sinus infection - not even a very bad one -
congestion, a little yellow mucus - cleared up in short time. but now,
it's turned into something even worse! just like your case - no
infection - little or no mucus - very dry conditions - and an
extremely 'closed up feeling' - big time inflammation that i haven't
been able to get down even with a pretty intense course of oral
steriods. using nasal steriod spray - Flonase - seems to be about the
only think that allows me to barely maintain the tiniest little
opening for a faint trickle of air to come in thru one or both
nostrils. this is very, very disconcerting.

the phenomena - swelling - sure feels to me like the way you'd feel if
you overused one of those over the counter sprays - like Afrin -
oxymetazoline and such. where, on rebound, the nasal passages are just
completely locked up and you can't draw a trickle of air thru your
nose - no way in hell.

but, i haven't used any of those sprays for years, however I'm getting
that exact same feeling/effect.

i'm going to read the rest of this thread. I hope you find something
that helps, if you do, PLEASE share it with me. my ability to endure
this is running out after 9 weeks. i am scheduled to get a CAT scan of
my sinuses tomorrow. will see if that sheds any light on the subject.
Charles Stanton - 29 Jan 2004 00:27 GMT
> >I'm really fed up with this now. I'm irrigating  with warm saline and my
> >sinuses are still closing up, a whole month after the cold virus which sparked
[quoted text clipped - 41 lines]
> this is running out after 9 weeks. i am scheduled to get a CAT scan of
> my sinuses tomorrow. will see if that sheds any light on the subject.

Hey Ijah:

When I first read your post I honestly thought I was reading my own.
I can't believe how similar our symptoms are.  This is the story of my
life for the past few months wrapped up in a few paragraphs.

October I came down with some type of bug -- I'm not going to say
sinusitis or viral because nobody really gave me a definite diagnosis.
Zpak for 5 days got rid of the sore throat and discolored mucous but
it never really seemed to go away.  My nose remained dry, irritated
and very closed up.  This varied TREMENDOUSLY from day to day.  I
would feel so good some days that I would literally cancel my Dr's
appointments.  Then I would feel like crap, then good, then crappy
etc..

I considered it so minor that I didn't even see any more Doc's.  Then
xmas eve another bug hit me.  I decided not to take any antibiotics
and just keep it moist as all hell.  Nasal gels and saline sprays.
Within 5 days I felt almost normal again but the key word is ALMOST.
This went on for a few weeks but I felt so close to perfect that again
I didn't even see a doc.  Nasal gel kept me good most of the time and
the only crappy time was first thing in the AM.  I would irrigate
every AM & PM and use nasal gels all day long.  Again, I felt almost
perfect but the dry indoors would really set of my symptoms.  For
example I would come to work feeling great.  After about 1 or 2 hours
inside the dry heat my nose would get dry, burny, irriated and
swollen.  I felt like crap until I used some saline and applied the
nasal gel.

Exactly 7 days ago it hit me again but this time it kicked the crap
out of me.  My nose jammed up so bad that absolutely NOTHING was
getting in there.  The post nasal drip actually caused my to vomit!  
I immediately went on Levaquin and a few days later started with
Methylprednisonone & Rhinocort AQ.  Saw 3 different ENT's because I'm
about to kill myself and all of them basically told me that there was
no 'obvious' infection (not classic sigs of puss, discolored mucous
etc...).  My nose however was so jammed up that they could barely get
the endoscope up there even after the Afrin spray.  Everything is
swollen, raw and incredibly congested even today.  Sometimes my nose
is just very dry and painful but then a few minutes later it would
swell up and I blow my nose and a bucket of mucous comes out --- I've
literally gone through 10 boxes of tissues.  As of right now, my nose
is jammed shut with some very dry air getting up there.  I can't smell
or taste anything.  Here is what I'm doing:

1- 21 day course of Levaquin.  1 doc said it could just be a lingering
infection.  If Levaquin doesn't fully relieve my symptoms in 3 weeks
I'm probably going to switch to Avelox or Clindamycin.

2- Continue my Prednisolone unitl completed (another 2 days) and
Rhinocort AQ for as long as needed.

3- Here is by far the most important thing that I've been doing and
without it I would probably be dead by now.  Breathe-Ease XL nasal
gel!!!!  And lots of it.  I just ordered 10 tubes of the stuff -- not
kidding.  When my symptoms are not that severe this gel seems to
"cure" me for a few hours at a time.  Of course now that I'm
completely closed up, it doesn't have the same affect but it still
helps somewhat.

4- Saline spray.  Although it seems to do nothing, I'm going to keep
with it.

I feel for you and I don't know how you've been dealing with this for
9 weeks.  If I could say anything it would be to keep your nose moist
as all hell!!  Spray some saline in there, buy 100 tubes of
Breathe-Ease XL and use it, then spary more saline, then more XL ---
go through a tube a day if you have to but keep it as moist as
possible.

Let's keep in touch --- let me know what else you're doing and if
anything is even remotely helping.  Let me know what the docs say &
I'll certainly do the same.
iJah - 29 Jan 2004 10:23 GMT
>> >I'm really fed up with this now. I'm irrigating  with warm saline and my
>> >sinuses are still closing up, a whole month after the cold virus which sparked
[quoted text clipped - 15 lines]
>> >
>> >Tom

iJah <ijahSpamSucks@mindspring.com> wrote in message
news:<9m0f1011qiqq4ibe0l3sigc2ftkk06su02@4ax.com>...
>> i'm in the *exact* same situation as you. got a nasty cold or 'the
>> flu' and there was a sinus infection - not even a very bad one -
[quoted text clipped - 21 lines]
>> this is running out after 9 weeks. i am scheduled to get a CAT scan of
>> my sinuses tomorrow. will see if that sheds any light on the subject.

>Hey Ijah:
>
>When I first read your post I honestly thought I was reading my own.
>I can't believe how similar our symptoms are.  This is the story of my
>life for the past few months wrapped up in a few paragraphs.

Sorry for you and yet thrilled to find someone else who's sinuses are
playing by the same set of eclectic rules (no rules) as mine seem to
be ;-)

>October I came down with some type of bug -- I'm not going to say
>sinusitis or viral because nobody really gave me a definite diagnosis.
[quoted text clipped - 4 lines]
>appointments.  Then I would feel like crap, then good, then crappy
>etc..

Ditto. My initial 'infection' i treated with a course of penicillin VK
that i had on hand. it quickly got to where i was no longer
pre-occupied or concerned with it, but could tell something still was
not quite right. Went from congested/stuffy to dry and swollen, but
open enough that i felt fairly functional except early morning after a
partial nights sleep when it would close up. But I could hang with it.
Had some very good days where I just thought yippie - IT is gone. Then
bam, the next day locked up tighter than a drum, wheezing - no sleep,
panicky, trying desperately to maintain some small trickle of air thru
one or both nostrils, but really closed up quite tight.

>I considered it so minor that I didn't even see any more Doc's.  Then
>xmas eve another bug hit me.  I decided not to take any antibiotics
[quoted text clipped - 9 lines]
>swollen.  I felt like crap until I used some saline and applied the
>nasal gel.

I didn't see any docs for the first three weeks of my current bought.
From time to time, I would get that terrible tightly closed up feeling
- like a bad case of Afrin rebound - that scares the hell out of me -
but usually, I could maintain and was actually quite unconcerned.
Then, the good days got to be fewer and fewer and the nasal passages
seemed to get smaller and smaller - or rather the inflammation got
bigger and bigger to where i often could not pull any air thru my nose
unless i was standing up or sitting down and had my head in perfect
alignment with some mystical force that allowed me to keep a pinhole
opening going in one or both nostrils. the dry air phenomena is brutal
when your nasal passages are bone dry and badly inflammed. when
average temps are below 15 degrees, it's hard to escape. god, how i
loathe hearing that freakin' furnace blower kick in every five minutes
sending yet another blast of heated, dry, stale, lifeless air into the
rooms. I have a couple gonzo humidifiers, but they just don't do the
trick man. you need fresh, washed air - like the kind you get after a
nice rainstorm when it's 70+ degrees out or vital air like the spray
that comes onto the beach at the ocean. i have learned that if i fill
my bathtub, and all the sinks in the house with hot water and let it
just evaporate overnight, that helps WAY more than any of the pricey
humidifiers i've bought. i'd love to humidify this place at the source
- with some attachment on the furnace, but it's an apartment building
and i don't have that option.

>Exactly 7 days ago it hit me again but this time it kicked the crap
>out of me.  My nose jammed up so bad that absolutely NOTHING was
[quoted text clipped - 11 lines]
>is jammed shut with some very dry air getting up there.  I can't smell
>or taste anything.  Here is what I'm doing:

Ditto about eventually hitting the wall where absolutely nothing can
squeak in thru the nose. i crossed over into that - what i call 'the
eath zone' many weeks ago. this has really changed the dynamic and
taken this from an unpleasant to a life threatening problem.

Seems like every other day - actually evening - it's worst from say
1am to 9am - my nose is locked up so freakin' tight a stick of
dynamite would cut me a blowhole ;-) i'm joking, but it's by no means
funny, of course. i'm in a near constant state of anxiety - unable to
sleep - and it's hard, nay impossible to put your attention on
anything else when you are fighting for your last dying breath - so
you tend to get a tad obsessed with the situation - LOL. Lack of sleep
and anxiety is starting to hack away at my endurance level. After a
brief battle now, i find myself getting weak, faint, feeling about to
pass out. My focus is to stay as calm as possible and just "Don't
Stuggle". i find the more i *resist* or struggle or dramatize any sort
of panic the worse i am.

my therapy has been similar to yours. i'm on course #3 of antibiotics
- 1st penicillin VK, then Cefuroxime, and now on day 3 of a 'Z-pack'
(Zithromax). I was also first put on a worthless low dose course of
prednisone - 10mg per day for five days, then later a more kick a.s
course of prednisone - 60mg/day for three days, 40mg/day for three
days, then 20mg/day for three days. I'm on day number six of this
second course of prednisone. i was really hoping it would bust me a
big chunk of relief, but i've been sadly disappointed. either it did
nothing, or merely has kept me from worsening.

One diff between us is that i have NO post nasal drip and no
vacillation between dry/inflammed and congested with a lot of mucus.
i'm just locked into bone dry and inflammed with a vengence. god, what
i would give for an ounce of moisture - a big fat nasty, unpleasant
gob of snot to blow thru my nose! i'm drinking boatload of liquids
like you're supposed to, but none of it ever seems to get into my
nasal passages.

two things that do seem to help - i can just feel that they are 'good
for me', even though they don't provide any dramatic relief - are
chicken soup and hot tea.

hell, i'm trying everything. i got a diagram of accupressure points
i'm massaging and tapping that are supposed to help - any freakin'
therapy i can throw at it, i'm giving a shot.

Jeez, I've got a lot more comments I want to make, but not enough
energy to do so right now. So, i'll jump back in later, but snip out
everything we've said so far in my next post to 'keep the bandwith'
down. - Oh, My, God - did I say 'keep the bandwith' down - i hate it
when geeks say that - LOL

>1- 21 day course of Levaquin.  1 doc said it could just be a lingering
>infection.  If Levaquin doesn't fully relieve my symptoms in 3 weeks
[quoted text clipped - 24 lines]
>anything is even remotely helping.  Let me know what the docs say &
>I'll certainly do the same.
Charles Stanton - 29 Jan 2004 15:55 GMT
> >> >I'm really fed up with this now. I'm irrigating  with warm saline and my
> >> >sinuses are still closing up, a whole month after the cold virus which sparked
[quoted text clipped - 206 lines]
> >anything is even remotely helping.  Let me know what the docs say &
> >I'll certainly do the same.

We are certainly very similar in our symptoms -- I'm going to dig a
little deeper now.

I've been dealing with nasal/sinus problems for close to 10 years now.
To sum it up, when I get a cold my nose gets attacked and it's always
been a bitch to clear it up.  The docs still don't have a consensus on
what's causing it (vasomotor rhinitis, sinusitis, dry membranes,
swollen membrane, swollen turbinates, allergies etc...).   The
symptoms that you are describing are almost exactly like mine except I
do get some mucous flow --- even when I blow a gob of mucous through
my nose I almost immediately go back to the dry stuffed feeling that I
have right now.  So don't worry, you're not missing much.  BTW, are
you able to smell anything or taste anything.  I can't taste or smell
for sh.t (although last night I was able to smell for about an hour or
two).  Also, my appetite is almost completely gone and the thought of
drinking water makes me absoultely sick to my stomach.  The only thing
I can handle is hot honey tea, gatorade and maybe some orange juice.

When I used to catch bugs in the past the infection seemed to clear up
quickly but I would have this terrible pressure in the center of my
forehead and a terrible post nasal drip.  I remember thinking that if
I could just take a pin and shove it in my nose I would feel so much
better.  This would last for months and months -- not excruciating
enough for me to miss work but just enough to make me miserable.  I
opted for turbinate cautery and septoplasty in Dec 2002.

I was perfectly fine until Oct 2003 (this was a worlds record for me,
I don't think I took even an advil or a sudafed for 10 months).  I
mean I was perfect!!! I didn't visit this f'ing newsgroup for 10
months.  I was cured and happy!!!! Then the October bug hit me and the
rest is history.

The major difference that I feel now since the surgery is that I no
longer have the throbbing pressure in the center of my forehead and
even though I have the post nasal drip it is not nearly as bad as it
used to be.  That's not a whole lot of comfort because my nose is
still jammed shut and dry and swollen as all hell!!

Let me know if you think this is crazy --- I haven't been to work in 2
weeks because the dry heat in the office is so irritating that I'd
rather loose my job than feel like I do in that office (I have
baseboard heat in my house and I can always crack a window if I feel
like I'm gonna pass out).  How the hell are you getting through the
days?  Are you able to function (i.e. wake up, go to work, come home,
go out socially etc...)?  I'm married with a 3 yr. old son and my life
has been reduced to a bowl of crap.  And the part that gets me the
most is that I know people are much worse off (even in this NG) and
they function in society.  Believe me, I know how the anxiety of this
can turn your life upside down -- it has to me.  What to do now?  I
have no idea.  I'm going to make an appointment with Johns Hopkins
Medical Center and the Mayo Clinic (both of which have been ranked
very high by several magazines and individuals on this NG).  I don't
give a sh.t if I drain my bank account or loose my job.  May sound a
little excessive but I have a feeling you can relate.  Keep in touch
bud...............let's hang in there.
iJah - 30 Jan 2004 07:48 GMT
<big snip>

>We are certainly very similar in our symptoms -- I'm going to dig a
>little deeper now.
[quoted text clipped - 8 lines]
>my nose I almost immediately go back to the dry stuffed feeling that I
>have right now.

yep, dry, stuffed, incredibly swollen/inflammed - hate the feeling.

> So don't worry, you're not missing much.  BTW, are
>you able to smell anything or taste anything.  I can't taste or smell
>for sh.t (although last night I was able to smell for about an hour or
>two).  Also, my appetite is almost completely gone and the thought of
>drinking water makes me absoultely sick to my stomach.  The only thing
>I can handle is hot honey tea, gatorade and maybe some orange juice.

i do have smell/taste, but those features are dampened way down. very
minimal smell, but even so my sense of taste is, thankfully, a little
better than sense of smell.

>When I used to catch bugs in the past the infection seemed to clear up
>quickly but I would have this terrible pressure in the center of my
[quoted text clipped - 3 lines]
>enough for me to miss work but just enough to make me miserable.  I
>opted for turbinate cautery and septoplasty in Dec 2002.

there is another similarity. i have pressure *exactly* in the center
of my forehead. that's the only place i have any significant pressure,
except also at the very tip of my nose right between my eyes.

maybe when you get a chance you can tell a little bit about what that
surgery was like - the surgery itself, the recovery and any
changes/improvements or ill effects you felt afterwards.

>I was perfectly fine until Oct 2003 (this was a worlds record for me,
>I don't think I took even an advil or a sudafed for 10 months).  I
>mean I was perfect!!! I didn't visit this f'ing newsgroup for 10
>months.  I was cured and happy!!!!

Excellent. It's amazing how your mood level flys up the charts when
you aren't miserable from some sinus or other medical problem dogging
your a.s! ;-)

>Then the October bug hit me and the
>rest is history.

Bummer. At least you had a bit of a reprieve.

>The major difference that I feel now since the surgery is that I no
>longer have the throbbing pressure in the center of my forehead and
>even though I have the post nasal drip it is not nearly as bad as it
>used to be.  That's not a whole lot of comfort because my nose is
>still jammed shut and dry and swollen as all hell!!

yes, god how i loathe/fear this dry, swollen shut feeling. it's the
worst IMHO. as miserable as stuffy/runny is i think i prefer that
sensation.

my dry, swollen shut feeling is that same sensation you get after
overuse of Afrin (oxymetazoline) - but i haven't touched the stuff in
over five years and won't ever again except in the most dire, dire
emergency.

>Let me know if you think this is crazy --- I haven't been to work in 2
>weeks because the dry heat in the office is so irritating that I'd
>rather loose my job than feel like I do in that office

Not crazy at all. Hell, I know what you mean. I simply cannot function
or be productive under conditions like that. so much attention and
life force goes to combating the misery that there is not much left to
give. it's not viable to put yourself in an environment where you are
miserable and expect to produce. it just increases the stress level
and anxiety. it's a no win situation for you and the employer. any
chance you can get some of your work done from home? i'm lucky in that
i can do a lot from home. all i need is a computer and a hot full-time
internet connection and i'm good to go.

> (I have
>baseboard heat in my house and I can always crack a window if I feel
>like I'm gonna pass out).  How the hell are you getting through the
>days?  Are you able to function (i.e. wake up, go to work, come home,
>go out socially etc...)?  

Negative. Can't sleep for more than an hour or two at a crack. Many
times have to try and sleep sitting straight up in a chair. Sleep
deprivation makes everything worse. Anxiety level goes from low rumble
to out the roof gonzo near full-on panic attacks. Night blends into
day and day into night.

my only saving grace is that i do not have a wife, children or even at
this time a girlfriend or live-in girlfriend, so my angst is all my
own. although i'd like to have others around for support in times like
this, i'm very thankful i don't have to impinge much on anyone else's
affairs with my problem and don't feel pressure to live up to their
expectations or feel guilt at not being able to do so.

and thank god, i can get a lot of my work done from home. my work has
suffered tremendously, but i've been able to produce enough and
maintain enough 'presence' via phone and email to keep things going.

>I'm married with a 3 yr. old son and my life
>has been reduced to a bowl of crap.

understandable. hopefully, they understand you and your situation and
can adjust accordingly and cut you lots of slack.

>  And the part that gets me the
>most is that I know people are much worse off (even in this NG) and
>they function in society.

i don't know how many people who are really whacked with a sinus
condition of the sort you and i have can or do function. i mean, i
make efforts and do manage to handle quit a few normal affairs - most
don't guess there is anything wrong with me at all, unless i'm visibly
anxious, down, or look haggard from lack of sleep or audibly wheezing
thru my nose. but i spend most of my time licking my wounds and
tweaking things every way i know how just to keep that life saving
tiny trickle of air coming thru one or both nostrils.

> Believe me, I know how the anxiety of this
>can turn your life upside down -- it has to me.  What to do now?  I
[quoted text clipped - 4 lines]
>little excessive but I have a feeling you can relate.  Keep in touch
>bud...............let's hang in there.

i definitely can relate. life is untenable with a condition like this.
it's got to be handled. money, job - nothing means much when you are
so dysfunctional.

you have the same attitude as i do. this is a good sign. you really
gotta worry when you just 'give up', throw the towel in and go into
hopelessness about the situation. there is always something that can
be done.

so, i say go for it man. go all out and agressively attack this
problem. no one else is gonna do it for you. my fondest hope is that i
could smack the apathy out of my primary doc and the ENT's I'm working
with and get them to really partner up with me and
troubleshoot/resolve this problem - but all i seem to get from them is
yawn's - LOL.

Thanks for posting.
Charles Stanton - 30 Jan 2004 22:00 GMT
>>maybe when you get a chance you can tell a little bit about what that
surgery was like - the surgery itself, the recovery and any
changes/improvements or ill effects you felt afterwards.<<

The truth is the surgery was a piece of cake.  It was 30 minutes under
general -- consisted of turbinate cautery & septoplasty.  The worst
part about it was that my surgeon had the people skills of a piece of
yarn.  I went with him because he was recommended by my uncle who is a
retired ENT.  He also seemed to be pretty conservative but the support
he gave me was non-existent.

The first week really sucked.  Try not to laugh but for about 3-5 days
I couldn't get 1 drop of air through my nose at all.  It was so bad
that I actually had to use Afrin once or twice just so I could get 20
minutes of sleep. I remember popping Ambien to help me sleep and it
would knock me out for 3 hours max.  Within 7 days I was in the car
and driving around.  Didn't really feel up to exercise or much social
interaction for 2-3 weeks.  This surgery is very different from FESS
where the recovery time is generally much longer.

At first I really though it made a difference.  I tend to be an overly
optimistic person (although you would never know from my horror posts
here lately)...maybe I convinced myself that this was the answer to
all my problems -- who knows.  I was clear of any type of flare up for
almost 10 months.  A worlds record.  Since October 2003 I consider the
surgery a failure and of course I'm thinking that it made me worse
(when I'm in a reasonable state of mind this thought goes away because
then I can remember how I was before the surgery).  In summary I don't
think it made any bit of a difference and it was a long shot anyway.
I was desperate and had to try something.

Anyway -- back to our current sob stories.  Have you tried Sudafed or
any decongestants like that?  I know it sounds crazy because you are
so incredibly dry and swollen but I was actually able to breathe a
little bit when I pop sudafed every couple of hours.  To my surprise
the dryness didn't get worse but I was getting some relief of airflow.
Just a thought.
turbinates - 24 Dec 2003 21:56 GMT
> >Hi!
> >
[quoted text clipped - 32 lines]
> (I am a light eater normally) - I gather they do not necessarily work for
> others....

Other people could also stop colds from just drinking a lot of water
(and of course plenty of rest). Hot green tea or hot chicken soup
would be good in stopping the cold I guess.
 
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