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Medical Forum / Diseases and Disorders / Sinusitis / August 2007today's analysis
saw the new ent today (the one that i just began building a rapport with, is leaving for a new job out of state). as we discussed my status, which i believe is - generally low-grade chronic crappy, sinus/ ear inflammation/congestion, fatigue/malaise with my yearly acute infectious episodes. mucus runs clear when things are as normal as it gets, thickened white, to discolored when acute. i believe that the condition is affected by my immune, endocrine, neurological systems, but really the only testing that has been done is for allery(positive for everything, prior treatment failure with shots, antihistamines, steroid nasal sprays. do all the allergen control stuff). he did the scope (& i've been sneezing since then) & like other times, things look ok. never have had anything ominous show up on the ct scan. he admitted the complexities of sinus problems but said that i didn't have chronic sinusitis. the focus came back to the allergy component. i think i understood him to say that once someone passed the acute allergy phase (sneezing, watery eyes, etc - none of which i have ever had except for today's scope aftermath), you settle in to a chronic inflammatory phase. thus, he wants me to try singulair for a month & if that doesn't help, to try pulmicort rinses for a month. he also didn't believe allergy shots would help much. he did not discount hormones or nonallergic factors, but felt that this was the obvious place to start again since i haven't used any meds for allergies in a long time. he didn't say too much to the fact that i think i have flare-ups that seem to be independent of outside variables (allergens, weather) & can be accompanied by severe fatigue, muscle aches, etc. he did say that he didn't believe that seeing an endocrinologist would be helpful. & he admitted that not much can be done for the vasomotor/nonallergic component, though he did stress the fact that emotional states such as depression & anxiety can greatly impact the condition. (such a shame that i was in such a happy state this spring when i crashed for the next many weeks.) when i indicated that i thought that i had a good response from the low dose macrolide, including time when i've felt as clear & as good as i have in years, he didn't say too much. he didn't really want to pursue this area without 1st exhausting the allergy approach (if it walks like a duck...). when i inquired more about the anti- inflammatory effects of the macrolides & the biofilm disruption components, he said it was all hypothetical. & i got the impression that he didn't think too much of the whole biofilm stuff. or maybe just not as it related to me? but it was clear that he didn't want to be using something like an antibiotic for something that needs to controlled at the source. so i'm back at the beginning. resigned to crappiness & trying to avoid acute phases (bad attitude). almost wish i hadn't had those periods of normalcy. but i know that i'm doing way better than alot of folks, so it just is what it is. thanks all for listening. ellen > saw the new ent today (the one that i just began building a rapport > with, is leaving for a new job out of state). as we discussed my [quoted text clipped - 48 lines] > > ellen oh, i forgot to add: the menobabes did not kick me off the menopause support board after the gyn said that i was too young to be perimenopausal. so i'm hoping that you folks (i don't know a good term - sinus sufferers doesn't seem to capture it) won't kick me out since the ent said that i didn't have sinusitis. ep > > saw the new ent today (the one that i just began building a rapport > > with, is leaving for a new job out of state). as we discussed my [quoted text clipped - 56 lines] > > ep Allergy is inflammation in the absence of infection. He should have run some blood tests and checked your IgE levels. If IgE is not high, then it is NOT an allergy. Low dose macrolides helped you, that is pretty strong evidence.. You have run into another example of the species of Crappieus Doctrous aka ENT bozous. again. Write up a little summary of your visit, print out some of the abstracts from Pub Med and send a complaint to the head of the Dept and ask for another ENT. We have to stop taking this crap lying down. Elizabeth > > > saw the new ent today (the one that i just began building a rapport > > > with, is leaving for a new job out of state). as we discussed my [quoted text clipped - 70 lines] > > Elizabeth elizabeth, he is the head of the dept. & you know, i just had a bunch of blood work ordered by my new pcp but i don't think IgE levels were on it. actually i wonder if i've ever had those measured. in recollection, the only results out of normal range in the last few years have been low wbc & neutrophil counts. ellen > oh, i forgot to add: the menobabes did not kick me off the menopause > support board after the gyn said that i was too young to be [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > > ep The meno folks knew your doctor was a completely off base dope. I'm not so sure that hte ENT you saw is wrong to proceed with one thing at a time, to see how you respond. Susan > x-no-archive: yes > [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] > > Susan They already tried several things and the Baxian worked. So he decides she has an allergy and does not order the right blood work to decide the question. The whole rational of the ENTs practice guidelines rests on cultures, gram stains, and CT SCANS, Tests with unpublished stats, and the ones that are published show a false negative rate of over 50%. Everything their specilty does is "hypothetical". So they have adopted the "allergy" model because it makes the problem the patient's fault, not theirs. The broken watch theory, lets them "treat" the patient infinitely. If their "treatment" worked, none of us would be on this form. and CS would not be the most prevalent chronic disease in the country. These guys are unsafe and ineffective. They are also profit richly and are comfortable and entrenched. If the guy you saw is head of the Dept then I would lodge a complaint with the head of the Med School. The number of tests is low so far but the statistics are much stronger for biofilm involvement than for any other etiology. It fits the evidence much more closely for this to be a cumulative disease initiated by a viral damage to cilia allowing bacteria to attach and increasing in severity, mass and resistance as microbiota are added over the years. Microbiologists John Chapman and Scott Hutlgren should be at UM somewhere. Contact them and ask about Drs working with them. They will have a better idea. And we should go to the ENTs convention and picket them as a waste of time and money and make a bonfire of their self-serving "practice guidelines." > > x-no-archive: yes > [quoted text clipped - 48 lines] > time and money and make a bonfire of their self-serving "practice > guidelines." well, i had only seen the previous ent twice before he left, beginning near the end of my acute sinusitis episode (or maybe that was chronic since it went a few months, whatever). he prescribe azithromycin for 5weeks @ 250mg/day. that was the time period where i had some great moments of improvement, but i wasn't sure if it was due to the zithro. & the ampho-b rinse didn't work out. so i was left with no suggestions except to continue my saline irrigation, perhaps take part in a probiotic study & see what the gyn (the aforementioned 'off base dope') had to say about any hormonal connections & treatments (i have many symptoms indicative of being perimenopausal. the gyn said that there were absolutely no connections between hormones & nasal/sinus inflammation). i scheduled to go in after spending over several days getting increasingly sicker - totally blocked with very little drainage. i had a 6 day course of zithro left, which someone there said to go ahead & use &then call. i got much better, so i was hoping for at least a little more dialogue about that. i don't know what it means that he was reluctant to have this discussion - maybe because it was my 1st time seeing him. this guy just seemed a little more rushed than the other ent & more certain about his treatment steps. it wasn't the dialogue that i was expecting, but i'm not sure if i can clearly evaluate him yet. re: IgE - showing my ignorance - is that demonstrated through blood work or through allergy testing? ellen Wow, Ellen. My sympathies for this lengthy, trying period with your health. These things take an insidious, cumulative toll. A big weight to bear ... and I'm sorry. >well, i had only seen the previous ent twice before he left, beginning >near the end of my acute sinusitis episode (or maybe that was chronic [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] >suggestions except to continue my saline irrigation, perhaps take part >in a probiotic study & see what the gyn I'm still doing/interested in that probiotic thing. From the little I've been able to glean, the mechanism of action seems to be a conversion to, and release of, hydrogen peroxide. This starts to seem like a recurring theme to me.... >(the aforementioned 'off base >dope') had to say about any hormonal connections & treatments (i have >many symptoms indicative of being perimenopausal. the gyn said that >there were absolutely no connections between hormones & nasal/sinus >inflammation). That would start me thinking that there WERE :-\ >i scheduled to go in after spending over several days getting >increasingly sicker - totally blocked with very little drainage. i [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] >re: IgE - showing my ignorance - is that demonstrated through blood >work or through allergy testing? Mine was a lab value determined from blood work. It's often a reasonable thing to check ALL of the IG's, INCLUDING the IgG ... what are they called ... subclasses? National Jewish went pretty granular on my blood, reporting all kinds of ratio and complement levels that--while meaningless to me--all read normal. What a bunch of perfectly-healthy-on-paper sick people we are, huh? >ellen Take good care, Ellen.... > Wow, Ellen. My sympathies for this lengthy, trying period with your > health. These things take an insidious, cumulative toll. A big [quoted text clipped - 48 lines] > > Take good care, Ellen.... Neil: When you are sick and are being told that you are perfectly healthy, then it means that the tests used are insensitive. Ellen: To recapulate, it sounds from what you have written over the weeks that every time you have been on the zithro you have gotten much better. At first you took it you were not sure, but the second time you took it you also had a dramatic improvement that ceased when you stopped. Or did I miss something? If you had an allergy then zithro would not have that effect. it is not an antihistamine, it is a lactone that interfers with goo production. http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/sites/entrez?Db=pubmed&Cmd=ShowDetailView&TermToSear ch=17620382&ordinalpos=17&itool=EntrezSystem2.PEntrez.Pubmed.Pubmed_ResultsPanel .Pubmed_RVDocSum About being harmonal and depressed. The bugs produce toxins to fight off your immune system that have a depressive effect. There are also complex host-prey interactions which we are only now getting a line on, but the bottom line is that while other medical disciplines have processed that information in a more useful way and embraced the information about biofilms with an enthusiasm to find a way to erridicate them, the ENT community as a whole has perfered to ignore or deny the importance of the fact that bacteria and fungi easily form a multispecies pseudomembrane attached in the sinuses that is 100 times as resistant to antibotics as free floating bacteria. When a profession has privileges protected by law, they have a responsibility that goes with that privilege. The question is are the ENTs fulfilling that responsibility. Their patients deserve to be able to trust them that they are employing the latest information and really looking for a cure. Rather the whole profession with the exception of a few like Murry seems to be ill informed, mentally lackadasial and indifferent and their published success rate stats are full of definition drift and double talk. This is not a specialty that shows it recognizes any social contract. > > Wow, Ellen. My sympathies for this lengthy, trying period with your > > health. These things take an insidious, cumulative toll. A big [quoted text clipped - 90 lines] > > - Show quoted text - I am a month late posting on this, but may I say after 15 years of battling sinusitis, I totally agree with you. ENTs represent the AMA model perfectly. Alopathic treating , income generating, lazy profiteers. At least 2/3rds of them have incorporated allergy practices so yes, they push you there for unlimited treatment. Unfortunately, this is one disease you must constantly research yourself, and then carry the research into the offices and find and semi-open minded doc. I could write a book on this. > Wow, Ellen. My sympathies for this lengthy, trying period with your > health. These things take an insidious, cumulative toll. A big [quoted text clipped - 48 lines] > > Take good care, Ellen.... thanks neil, i appreciate the support from you & everyone else. i really do feel like i have it pretty easy compared to what it could be. it's been so helpful to hear everyone's stories & how they have dealt with things. & i only need to go out on my front porch to be reminded & instructed about health challenges - most of my neighbors, a sturdy group of all ages from all over the world, struggle with various things. some of my most elderly neighbors have lived through the great depression, forced labor camps in europe, etc & deal with the inevitable consequences of their ages. some of the younger immigrants come from poor countries with little medical care or from war ravaged areas. one of my immediate neighbors survived a grenade attack 10 feet from her. i've been doing probiotics for a little while now; they certainly help my ibs & who knows what else, though no doctor until recently had given any credence to them. never heard about the hydrogen peroxide release component. re: hormones/nasal&sinus inflammation - many people here & elsewhere confirm that the gyn was wrong. & you are right - anytime someone has such a strong certain reaction, it makes me think 'uh oh.' i haven't talked with my new pcp yet about my recent tests, but they did run subclasses of ig's. i think it all looked ok. so maybe still looking good on paper even if the sturdy & quite direct old timers tell me exactly how they think i look in 3D. best, ellen > > Wow, Ellen. My sympathies for this lengthy, trying period with your > > health. These things take an insidious, cumulative toll. A big [quoted text clipped - 82 lines] > > - Show quoted text - Ellen, again I am late getting on board with you. When a doc says a test is "OK" , you must insist on getting the actual lab tests. In your hands ! Research the ranges. You may be on the line , and need gammaglobulin therapy. Probably not, but as I said in other posts, you must push. You must become the informed patient that takes a very active role. I had a brat infectious disease doc tell me I was "normal" . I asked if he tested for subclasses. He said no since the major classes showed " OK" . We argued ( and I mean, we argued...I intended to never go back to him anyway). He ordered the tests, which I had sent to my PCP and a new immunologist. Long story short, I was on the line IGg 1, 3. Again I had to push since they wanted to treat the lab tests, not 15 years of me trying everything. Put me on the IV and I have had two infections over twelve months. For me, that is beyond miraculous.By late 2005, I was nearly disabled from sinus infections. If I sound bitter about physicians, I suppose I am. I know the system has set them up in group practices run by business managers ---and like automechanics at dealerships, must produce X amount of revenue per hour. The whole thing is insidious. But good docs ( ones who will work with you if you push a bit) are out there. Be calm. Be nice. Have your research in hand. And be firm. Write all your questions down before your visit. Prepare for your doc visits like you would an exam. You MUST maximize the 15 minutes you have with them. If you are chronic , face the fact some ENTs will want you out of their practice as you will take too much time. Keep plugging away. Dont give up. Please don't answer. If someone comes here selling cemetery lots, please don't answer. The subject is sinusitis. If someone comes here selling hair tonic, please don't answer. The subject here is sinusitis. Without a monitor, I have seen too many groups destroyed when off topic subjects get back and forth, fill up the space for topic letters and then everyone goes away. There are too many good writers here to let that happen. Please don't answer the people who come here to tell about their aunt Mabel. >Please don't answer. > [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > >Please don't answer the people who come here to tell about their aunt Mabel. What if they are selling ear wax? > > > Wow, Ellen. My sympathies for this lengthy, trying period with your > > > health. These things take an insidious, cumulative toll. A big [quoted text clipped - 108 lines] > practice as you will take too much time. Keep plugging away. Dont give > up. hi duke, thanks for the advice, support, & for sharing your experiences. i am so glad that you are doing better - what an awful & long ordeal. so many on this support group have suffered & then been so beat up by the very people who are supposed to be helping us. it's hard not to be angry. but i am so encouraged by people sharing what they have learned. thanks, too, for mentioning the IgG subclasses again. my new pcp - who i think is good - ran some initial bloodwork, including the Igs. but the subclasses were not run because the other results were normal. i will bring this up with her when i see her. for now, i'm really looking to her to help guide the treatment, since the last ent dismissed everything as all allergies. so far, this pcp has shown great willingness for dialogue & we have established a reasonable course for the next month, after which we reassess the situation & evaluate my response. she was very keyed in to my good response to low dose macrolides & was not averse to having this possibly play a part in treatment as we move foward. best, ellen > x-no-archive: yes > [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] > > Susan i can certainly see why he would want to try an allergy management treatment that i haven't tried before. i had inquired about singulair around the time that they started using it off label for allergies & the docs dismissed it. & i understand the single variable approach. it was just so nice to have some relief, however limited, & it's hard to step back & reassess moving forward. i must not present with anything that looks remotely like chronic sinusitis even though that is what it feels like to me; it's not the 1st time that i've seen an ent for this seemingly chronic sinus stuff (there is never a time where i'm not congested there - except for those recent periods while on the macrolide), only to be told that i don't have sinusitis. love your 'completely off base dope' comment. the last ent that i had seen was part of the same system as the gyn. he was another expert in his field (i think the nytimes used him as a source in a sinus article around the time that the mayo clinic fungal results were coming out). i went to him for a few years (maybe a few times/year), without much changing as far as my health . at least he knew what nasal irrigation was & that was an improvement from what i was used to. then i went a year or so without seeing him & made an appt. when i got there, the office staff had admitted that they didn't have my file & didn't know where it was. so i rushed through a new intake form & then the resident rushed through his intake (busy practice you know). i told him that i didn't want to be scoped, but the next thing i know he's spraying my nose. then the ent runs in (no lie), doesn't say anything, looks in my nose, pronounces no sinusitis & says i can't help you & literally runs out. that will be $110, please. ellen >> saw the new ent today (the one that i just began building a rapport >> with, is leaving for a new job out of state). as we discussed my [quoted text clipped - 54 lines] > term - sinus sufferers doesn't seem to capture it) won't kick me out > since the ent said that i didn't have sinusitis. Are you kidding? We ought to have a separate Usenet group (alt.support.sinusitis.misdiagnosed) just for all those patients who show every sign of sinusitis even though their ENTs swear they don't have it. Like me. I was the victim of a false negative CT scan. I don't know how many times I've had to explain to various folks here over the years that in the old days, physicians knew that no indirect medical test was 100% definitive; every test had an associated nonzero (but hopefully small) percentage of false positive and an associated nonzero (but hopefully small) percentage of false negatives. There is still no 100% substitute for direct observation (biopsy, or surgery). http://www.ahrq.gov/news/press/pr2006/effbrcanpr.htm But these days, you have to look hard to find one of those physicians; they're out there but most physicians don't know the probabilities. If the test is negative, they're happy. And sometimes, the patient with the negative test result ends up dead.  SignatureSteven D. Litvintchouk Email: sdlitvin@earthlinkNOSPAM.net Remove the NOSPAM before replying to me. > >> saw the new ent today (the one that i just began building a rapport > >> with, is leaving for a new job out of state). as we discussed my [quoted text clipped - 78 lines] > Email: sdlit...@earthlinkNOSPAM.net > Remove the NOSPAM before replying to me. elizabeth & steven, you are both so right about it all. & you & many others here in this group have fought much harder & longer than i have to make your way through all the awful stuff that is thrown at people who struggle with sinusititis by the experts entrusted to help us. i used the following example on the menopause board to explain what a doctor's visit feels like to me: i'm dog-paddling along as best as i can when suddenly a shark latches on to my foot. i get the lifeguard's attention & (s)he assures me that there are no sharks in these waters. then he throws some boulders at me assuring me that these will help me to float. these, invariably, hit me in the head. i continue to be so grateful for the knowledge that all of you share. it's taken me a long time to trust my instincts (still learning) & to try to figure out the best ways to proceed. there is still frustration, but now anger as well at how many in the medical profession treat patients with complex problems. as stated elsewhere, i don't expect doctors to be gods, but i don't appreciate when they act like they are. & i appreciate an admission of not knowing more than a paternal dismissal or pat on the head. (or kick in the ....) thanks, ellen Ellen, It really stinks: you found someone you could work with, and he left, and the head the department is locked into rigid thinking. There is a global movement to avoid "unecessary" antibiotics--and that is the source of the resistance to the low dose macrolides. Luckily my ENT read the articles and understands them (It reminds me of the movie "Fish Called Wanda" when the character says to Kevin Kline: "Apes read Neitzche, Otto, they just don't understand it...") Recently my ENT emailed me that he wonders how many patients could be spared sinus misery if they used the low dose macrolides. He has also told me that he goes to national meetings, approaches the "big names" and tries to engage them in discussion about the macrolides, and they are universally clueless. But they'll describe new surgical approaches... When all you have is a hammer, everything is a nail. There's a slang term in medicine, and it's called to "turf" a patient--it means to send them off to someone else, and avoid the responsibility. He turfed you to allergy. Singulair is a great drug for inflammation, and for allergic rhinitis and asthma. I use it all the time, because people just don't know when to use their inhalers, and it works, and it's a "clean" drug. But, it may not be the entire answer for you. A couple of thoughts: there is work on macrolides and tetracyclines that have no antimicrobial activity, just anti-inflammatory activity. They released a low dose doxycyline for rosecea recently that has no anti-microbial actiivty, just anti-inflammatory. No macrolide released yet, but my daughter's dermatologist tells me there's one in the works. I agree with the previous mention of bringing in literature: it's undeniable that low dose macrolides work for chronic sinusitits, a pseudomonas infection of the respiratory tract that occurs primarly in Japan (where a lot the research was done) and in cystic fibrosis. Bring in the Chest article, and articles by Anders Cervin, and make him deal with it. Primary immunodeficiencies can be diagnosed by quantitative immunoglobulins and IgG subclasses, but there are plenty we can't find yet--a lot of sinusitis is due to a gene that causes thick mucous--not available to test for outside of research centers. Maybe your new pcp will also read the articles and treat you. One of the deans at Brown told me I was lucky that I can prescribe: I try not to ever prescribe for myself, but I can argue medical literature if needed. I'm frustrated for you, and you--and we all--deserve better. Judy > Singulair is a great drug for inflammation, and for allergic > rhinitis and asthma. I use it all the time, because people just don't > know when to use their inhalers, and it works, and it's a "clean" > drug. Judy, I'm not sure what a "clean drug" is, but I had an awful experience with Singulair, and have yet to meet a doc who's aware of just how common it is for folks to feel agitated, moody, irritable and sometimes, become hypertensive on it. I found many fellow sufferers when I read the ratings and posted my own on askapatient.com, which all docs should read before deciding what to think about which drugs. I know it's a great drug for some folks, but it's godawful for a lot of us. Susan > x-no-archive: yes > [quoted text clipped - 13 lines] > > Susan susan, i hadn't even looked yet re: singulair's profile. drug reactions are not uncommon for me & i can't say that i would look forward to some more mood disruption. thanks for pointing that out; if i do attempt it, i will start at a lower dose than prescribed, if possible. ellen > Ellen, > It really stinks: you found someone you could work with, and he [quoted text clipped - 40 lines] > I'm frustrated for you, and you--and we all--deserve better. > Judy Judy; What do you make of the fact that people CF who receive lung transplants, presumably containing epithelial cells with normal amounts of Cystic Fibrosis Trans-Membrane Conductance Factor, eventually develop the monster mucus in their new lungs? Also Mayo did a study in 2002 which showed that only 50% of the people diagnosed with cystic fibrosis had any anomaly in their gene for CFTR. Another piece of the puzzle is that Staph A. and several other bacteria produces an enzyme that destroys CFTR. The bugs have evolved with us and have evolved the tools to manage their environment. http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2007/04/070418104305.htm In fact one of the things that one sees within a species of bacteria is that aggressive pathogens expressing deadly toxins have small genomes, while a bacteria of the same species from a chronic clinical isolate will express much less toxin but have a 50% larger genome, all bits of bacterial software to manage the site and avoid host defenses. So all one needs to get something that looks like CF is a respitory virus half as bad as SARS, and then have a a staph infection set up shop. This can only be prevented if antibiotics are prescribed to prevent superinfection during the vulnerable period between when the cilia are killed and when they recover. > Ellen, > It really stinks: you found someone you could work with, and he [quoted text clipped - 40 lines] > I'm frustrated for you, and you--and we all--deserve better. > Judy good info, judy. & i appreciate your frustration on behalf of all of us. i really don't know what to do just yet. i see the pcp at the end of august, so i think i will have formulated & started some process prior to that. maybe i will just be 'turfed' back to the nonconventional fields of health care - it's all coming out of my pocket anyway. though my last adventure in holistic care involved getting strapped to some electrical biofeedback equipment that relayed the info to some software whose processing music seemed to be a mix of new age meets soft porn. as i silently was noting that strange combination, the practitioner told me that she had just hooked up her dog to the contraption that morning because he had been chasing all the females in the area. sure enough, he had high lust levels... & here i had just come in to buy a few supplements. during my last nasty acute infection, my then pcp used doxy as the second line antibiotic. i don't know what dose is used for acute sinusitis - this was 250mg/day. & i think i got the sickest while i was on it. i also didn't tolerate the drug too well. just tired, confused, & frustrated. would love to find some way to quiet my over reacting body. i haven't ruled out returning to allergy shots, i'm just trying to figure out strategies & financing. conventional medicine always feels like - here is a hammer, it won't hurt a bit. & holistic attempts have felt like - here is a feather, this will help alot. (though some of elizabeth's strategies sound a little painful albeit potentially exciting) i know the answer or at least management/help is somewhere in between. or not. but there is a full moon tonight, so if anyone has remedies that i should undertake while standing in it's light, let me know. ellen >just tired, confused, & frustrated. would love to find some way to >quiet my over reacting body. i haven't ruled out returning to allergy [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] >but there is a full moon tonight, so if anyone has remedies that i >should undertake while standing in it's light, let me know. In all seriousness.... I wound up in pretty bad shape because of my complex cocktail of eyeball issues. Sinuses--while most probably related--are only icing on the (mucosal) cake. The fixes for my eyes turned out to be worse than the disease (BAK > preservative-induced toxicity). At the beginning of the story, I -- through Herculean efforts -- found my own medical fix. At the end of the story, however, I wound up doing more harm than good. Simultaneous to this medical search in which we're all engaged, are you trying things that one might call "exercises in letting go?" By that, I mean (not being hooked up to a canine Orgasmatron, necessarily, but) things like yoga, meditation, guided visual imagery, or anything that can help calm the mind and slow the body? I'm a recovering triathlete, so ... slow ain't my best speed ... but I'm finding a certain /kind/ of relief in adding some of the above to my routine. They're highly unlikely to HURT my actual health, have some possibility of HELPING it, and--in either case--may give me a bit more 'bandwidth' to get through the bad days/weeks. I hope you find something that's helpful to you, too ;-) Neil > >just tired, confused, & frustrated. would love to find some way to > >quiet my over reacting body. i haven't ruled out returning to allergy [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > >but there is a full moon tonight, so if anyone has remedies that i > >should undertake while standing in it's light, let me know. Hum to the moon: Humming songs or scales or gregorian chants is associated with health. The louder the better. > > >just tired, confused, & frustrated. would love to find some way to > > >quiet my over reacting body. i haven't ruled out returning to allergy [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] > Humming songs or scales or gregorian chants is associated with health. > The louder the better. thanks, elizabeth, for continuing the meditative theme with a medievel sinusitis flare. ellen > >just tired, confused, & frustrated. would love to find some way to > >quiet my over reacting body. i haven't ruled out returning to allergy [quoted text clipped - 36 lines] > > Neil you know, neil, i've been following your odyssey since finding this site in the spring. i hope you are doing ok - it just sounds so difficult, but i like how you've maintained a good attitude. i was doing alot more formal meditative practice in the months prior to the spring infection & managed to continue it until i hit the breakdown point some weeks into it. & i just haven't gotten back totally. but i do believe it is part of my answer to some degree of health. thanks for the reminder. i'm way into the 'unlikely to hurt, might help' concept. so does ratdog help you get into a meditative state? & i like the 'canine orgasmatron' reference. ellen >you know, neil, i've been following your odyssey since finding this >site in the spring. i hope you are doing ok - it just sounds so >difficult, but i like how you've maintained a good attitude. As I always tell my dear mother, I AM okay. Okay, though, is the new "GREAT!" A paradigm shift. > i was doing alot more formal meditative practice in the months prior >to the spring infection & managed to continue it until i hit the >breakdown point some weeks into it. & i just haven't gotten back >totally. but i do believe it is part of my answer to some degree of >health. thanks for the reminder. i'm way into the 'unlikely to hurt, >might help' concept. When I feel my worst, it becomes dramatically easier to abandon those things that were probably bringing me some measure of relief: the exercise, the meditation, the yoga, the irrigation, etc., etc. That's when I really SHOULD be 'doubling down....' I'm glad you already know about such things. >so does ratdog help you get into a meditative state? Oh, yeah! And the involuntary rhythmic dancing that seemed to accompany it ;-) >& i like the 'canine orgasmatron' reference. ....old enough to remember "Sleeper...." ;-) >ellen BTW: I left the NW suburbs of Detroit in the early 80's and headed to San Diego. While there certainly has been a dramatic increase in the population, and--you're right--there's no end in sight, it's still an absolutely beautiful place to live. The costs are high (median home = ~$500k. We rent), traffic is obnoxious, urban sprawl is rampant, the air is NOT as clean as it was, but .... it's still just short of paradise in many respects. I guess we each have to understand well our own triggers. If it's allergies, then there are online resources to help us locate places where THOSE counts are low. For me, dry air is a killer; otherwise, we'd have moved to Fort Collins, Colorado about 18 months ago. We're going to visit there, again, this fall. If things (for me) have changed, then ... maybe. If you CAN move, and if a move WILL help you, medically, then let nothing stand in your way :-) Neil >> Ellen, >> It really stinks: you found someone you could work with, and he [quoted text clipped - 62 lines] > just tired, confused, & frustrated. would love to find some way to > quiet my over reacting body. Have you tried relocation? Maybe you just need to get away from whatever in the environment is bugging you. It's summertime. Go stay in a nice place near the seacoast, or in a dry climate like Tucson, or anywhere that isn't like where you're living now. Stay there for a few weeks and see if you feel better, in the fresh air and sunshine. If you do, maybe you've learned something. SignatureSteven D. Litvintchouk Email: sdlitvin@earthlinkNOSPAM.net Remove the NOSPAM before replying to me. A little late in replying: 1) Singulair is a "clean drug" as it rarely causes side effects. I find this to be true, having prescribed it for a long time, and my allergist concurs--he's the one who described to me as "clean". I've seen the site where Susan posted, and there are usually less than a hundred posters. Millions of people have used this drug. In my clinical experience, it's exceptionally well tolerated, and as a drug that inhibits inflammation, it has widespread benefits. Anyone can have an adverse reaction, but Susan's reaction is unusual. I've taken it for years with no problems. I especially find it helpful in avoiding the use of inhaled steroids, and as many patients get confused about their inhalers, it's very simple to take a small pill that has virtually no side effects. 2) Re: moving to Tucson: the air there is dry, and full of particulates--my nose started to bleed my first day in Arizona. Also, as I live by the seaside, we have some amazing mold here. No place is perfect. The only place I've personally found to be really helpful is the Colorado mountains: dry, few dust mites, and no pollution. However, some individual situations within a location can be the problem: I had a patient who was extremely ill with asthma, moved from a coastal location with a damp, older house, to Providence, with a dry older house, and her symptoms virtually disappeared. I currently live in a moldy house, and it's a constant struggle with bleach, airing out, dehumidifying, etc. My older daughter, who had mild asthma since age 6 moved into a moldy dorm room sophomore year, and was in the ER within 48 hours. She refused to move away from her friends, and despite a huge HEPA filter, dehumidifier, dust mite spray, etc, lived on steroids and antibiotics and nebulizers for the school year. She had 2 ER visits, and never once was in the ER in her life before. End of the school year, she moved into an apartment with hardwood floors, started daily biaxin 250mg and continued her singulair and her sinuses have been clear for a year, and no asthma symptoms. And, she did start allergy shots December of the horrible year. Same town, different place, huge difference. Judy > >> Ellen, > >> It really stinks: you found someone you could work with, and he [quoted text clipped - 77 lines] > Email: sdlit...@earthlinkNOSPAM.net > Remove the NOSPAM before replying to me. > A little late in replying: > 1) Singulair is a "clean drug" as it rarely causes side effects. I [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > confused about their inhalers, it's very simple to take a small pill > that has virtually no side effects. I agree that a lot of folks get benefits from the drug without adverse reactions. But I also think that when certain non specific reactions turn up, docs fail to connect them to the drugs they're rxing, especially if they believe that they're free of such effects. In fact, in my decades of medical care, it's been true even of drugs known to have significant adverse effects; no one ever diagnosed them even when flagrant. If docs don't know that tantrums or irritability are provoked by Singulair, children will be labeled, segregated in school and end up in mental health care, potentially, so this is important. Thank goodness for mothers who make the drug connection when doctors don't! Susan > >> Ellen, > >> It really stinks: you found someone you could work with, and he [quoted text clipped - 77 lines] > Email: sdlit...@earthlinkNOSPAM.net > Remove the NOSPAM before replying to me. steven, i've been seriously thinking about relocation, especially to get away from the tumultuous weather/barometric changes here in michigan. i've been lucky that we've had a mild dry summer & that has helped, but the hot humid august is underway. we're here while my husband's parents are still here, but i am trying to figure out what would be a good move. (& affordable?) i love the mountains, but haven't spent more than a couple weeks at a time there - usually further north than i think i could tolerate year round. in the early 90s i lived briefly in san diego & felt pretty good; but they were starting to really build in population & pollution. moving to california doesn't feel ethically good, especially after recently reading some incredible population estimates for the future. think i've mentioned this to judy already, but while i may not be entirely sure of a more optimal setting, i do know that i will be avoiding caves filled with cats. & now that i think about it, alot of things are bugging me here that have nothing to do with allergens/pollutants/weather. ellen >> Have you tried relocation? >> [quoted text clipped - 15 lines] > to california doesn't feel ethically good, especially after recently > reading some incredible population estimates for the future. From what you're saying, it sounds like you do best in dry warm climates. Sounds like the American Southwest to me. (North from there you run into all the pollen from farming, and the winters get pretty chilly too.) Home prices have risen sharply in much of the Southwest, but there are still reasonably inexpensive (yet not economically stagnant) warm dry places left: Albuquerque NM El Paso TX Corpus Christi TX Fort Worth TX And El Paso TX is within driving distance of some nice mountains. The rest of it is warm and dry. SignatureSteven L. Email: sdlitvin@earthlinkNOSPAM.net Remove the NOSPAM before replying to me. > >> Have you tried relocation? > [quoted text clipped - 37 lines] > Email: sdlit...@earthlinkNOSPAM.net > Remove the NOSPAM before replying to me. hey steven, thanks to you & neil for the relocation advice. i've always had some strange automatic negative reaction to texas for no good reason - it's not like i've spent any time there. but i thought that it was alot more humid. i'm just not sure i would be able to tolerate extreme heat, even if it is dry. it's been really dry here this summer & i've been trying to play some beach volleyball, but the dry sand as it's kicked up is just killing me. may need to try those nose filters. steven, did you end up moving to improve your health situation? & neil, good luck on the colorado trip. i didn't hate san diego & i did feel better there, i just never got the hang of southern ca culture. we could never afford to do more than rent (we lived in an area of national city where the gangs agreed to leave the hospital employee housing alone in exchange for emergency medical treatment). ellen ellen >& neil, good luck on the colorado trip. i didn't hate san diego & i >did feel better there, i just never got the hang of *southern ca >culture* ... an oxymoron if ever there was one .... >we could never afford to do more than rent (we lived in an >area of national city where the gangs agreed to leave the hospital >employee housing alone in exchange for emergency medical treatment). I know that area of National City quite well. It's called ... National City ;-) We'll leave the light on for ya' ... just in case. > >& neil, good luck on the colorado trip. i didn't hate san diego & i > >did feel better there, i just never got the hang of *southern ca [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > > We'll leave the light on for ya' ... just in case. as i've already stated, i like your attitude. & here i thought national city would be gentrified by now. >>> & neil, good luck on the colorado trip. i didn't hate san diego & i >>> did feel better there, i just never got the hang of *southern ca [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] > as i've already stated, i like your attitude. & here i thought > national city would be gentrified by now. You really might like Santa Fe NM better. Santa Fe is not extremely hot. As you can check for yourself on the Weather Channel, even in August it rarely gets above 90 degrees Fahrenheit. It's a lovely place, in fact. In 1984, a bunch of top scientists went to live in Santa Fe to set up an isolated scientific research project there, the Santa Fe Institute. These guys aren't survivalists and they wanted a peaceful place that was easy to live and work in. Murray Gell-Mann, for one, a Nobel Prize-winning physicist. http://www.santafe.edu/about/people-resident-faculty.php SignatureSteven L. Email: sdlitvin@earthlinkNOSPAM.net Remove the NOSPAM before replying to me. > >>> & neil, good luck on the colorado trip. i didn't hate san diego & i > >>> did feel better there, i just never got the hang of *southern ca [quoted text clipped - 30 lines] > Email: sdlit...@earthlinkNOSPAM.net > Remove the NOSPAM before replying to me. i've always heard alot of good things about santa fe & we have some friends who are in the process of moving there. so it might be time to plan a winter vacation. ellen >>& neil, good luck on the colorado trip. i didn't hate san diego & i >>did feel better there, i just never got the hang of *southern ca [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > >We'll leave the light on for ya' ... just in case. Interesting posts on San Diego. So happens we're taking our vacation for a week there starting next Wednesday. Unfortunately, I'm at the start of my sinus infection in many months, but I should be feeling better in next few days. Hopefully I won't make the same mistake as I did last time we were in San Francisco. Ended up on the wrong bus that went through bad part of the city. Rick >>>& neil, good luck on the colorado trip. i didn't hate san diego & i >>>did feel better there, i just never got the hang of *southern ca [quoted text clipped - 15 lines] >start of my sinus infection in many months, but I should be feeling >better in next few days. All in good fun. I happen to love San Diego. Been here since '84. I just wish that the affordability index hadn't dropped to ... nil. Feel better ... hopefully before your trip! >Hopefully I won't make the same mistake as I did last time we were in >San Francisco. Ended up on the wrong bus that went through bad part >of the city. I bicycle ... a lot ... and spend a lot of time cycling through what, statistically WOULD be considered the highest crime/"worst" parts of San Diego. They're fine. Like many places, though, you don't go there at night. Enjoy your vacation. It's been absolutely perfect weather for ... well ... probably months! Neil > >>& neil, good luck on the colorado trip. i didn't hate san diego & i > >>did feel better there, i just never got the hang of *southern ca [quoted text clipped - 21 lines] > > Rick hi rick, hope you knock out that infection fast so that you can enjoy your vacation. neil is sure right about how that lousy weather is out there - perfect every day. my favorite memory of the area was being able to be at the ocean in the morning, drive through a snowstorm in the mountains (a thrill ride in an old vw bus), & spend the afternoon with the spring flowers in the desert. simply amazing. neil - how about some don't miss travel sights/ideas for the area? & shouldn't everyone at some time in their life experience the LA freeway traffic? (i could never understand how all multiple lanes of vehicles could be going 70 mph & then totally stop.) have a good trip, ellen >neil - how about some don't miss travel sights/ideas for the area? Happy to provide specifics and pointers, if Rick wants to reach out (my e-mail works as is). I would feel a bit presumptuous (normally not a problem at all!) just laying out a list without knowing who's coming, where they're staying, what their interests are, if they have a set agenda already, etc., etc. >shouldn't everyone at some time in their life experience the LA >freeway traffic? Yes. On acid. Definitely on acid. > (i could never understand how all multiple lanes of >vehicles could be going 70 mph & then totally stop.) It defies every known law of physics, most laws of the motor vehicle code, and all conceivable laws of common sense. Plus, it's some of the worst air in the [cough] world. What's always surprised me, greatly, is how FEW accidents there really are in that whole mess.... > >neil - how about some don't miss travel sights/ideas for the area? > [quoted text clipped - 21 lines] > What's always surprised me, greatly, is how FEW accidents there really > are in that whole mess.... haven't done it on acid. & susan - i won't drive in manhattan. but i have been stuck in LA traffic on a health alert hi temp/hi pollution day in a convertible with a broken top. way worse than anything detroit has ever induced. > haven't done it on acid. & susan - i won't drive in manhattan. but i > have been stuck in LA traffic on a health alert hi temp/hi pollution > day in a convertible with a broken top. way worse than anything > detroit has ever induced. Driving in Manhattan is EASY. Boston's a bitch, though. We drove at off hours in LA; piece of cake, even the airport trips. LA seemed easy to me under those circumstances. Susan
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