Medical Forum / Diseases and Disorders / Sinusitis / June 2007
amphotericin irrigation
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ellen - 12 Jun 2007 02:43 GMT well, getting ready to add the amphotericin irrigation to the treatment regimen. I've done a quick look at past posts regarding the best way to do this; i've always used a neti pot for my saline irrigation. the patient instructions call for the bulb or medical syringe. if anyone has suggestions, i'd love to hear them.
judy.n - 12 Jun 2007 12:19 GMT Ellen, The Neilmed people who make the squeeze bottle make a very small squeeze bottle for medication delivery. I got one as a sample, but you can order one on their web site. http://www.unimedprod.com/products.shtml
My sister did the amphotericin rinses with her neti: she just said that the cold rinses hurt, so she brought the solution to room temp before rinsing. I believe she divided the dose in two, and rinsed , although she may have waited between rinses to try and retain the solution. I know Murray Grossan advocates using his device, but I'd think there'd be residual saline in the tubing that would dilute the amphotericin.
Good luck. Judy
> well, getting ready to add the amphotericin irrigation to the > treatment regimen. I've done a quick look at past posts regarding the > best way to do this; i've always used a neti pot for my saline > irrigation. the patient instructions call for the bulb or medical > syringe. if anyone has suggestions, i'd love to hear them. Murray Grossan - 12 Jun 2007 19:25 GMT On 6/12/07 4:19 AM, in article 1181647171.793402.78440@d30g2000prg.googlegroups.com, "judy.n"
> I know Murray Grossan advocates using his device, but I'd > think there'd be residual saline in the tubing that would dilute the > amphotericin. Ampho is very unstable and must be prepared individually before use. Unless you have full Bernoulli effect, there is little entrance into the sinuses.
ellen - 16 Jun 2007 13:58 GMT ok - picked up the ampho rinse yesterday & i must be the 1st person in town to get it; they handled it like it was radioactive material. thought i had brought it up to room temp before irrigation (opted for the trusty neti pot), but apparently not warm enough. definite discomfort & residual swelling - my guess was from the temp. so i just irrigated the right side & thought i'd see how the rest of the day went.
the inflammation seemed to gradually calm. in the evening i had some blood in my nasal mucus discharge (from both nostrils) after blowing my nose. not enough to be freaked about, just unsual for me. then i woke up at early in the morning to bad pain in the frontal & ethmoid sinuses.
pain is gone this morning or else the pain meds are still working. i'm running out of the of the house shortly, but not as eager to to flush more of the ampho through.
suggestions/ideas? i also had a strange but short-lived itchy rash on my forearm that came on about 4/5 hours or so later - didn't have unusual skin contact with anything. it was confined & brief enough to be of no great concern, but definitely odd.
thanks, ellen
judy.n - 16 Jun 2007 17:07 GMT Ellen, I'd keep an eye on the rash--if it recurs, it might represent allergy. My sister said it hurt a lot if it wasn't warm enough. Hope you're feeling better. Judy
> ok - picked up the ampho rinse yesterday & i must be the 1st person in > town to get it; they handled it like it was radioactive material. [quoted text clipped - 21 lines] > thanks, > ellen Murray Grossan - 16 Jun 2007 17:31 GMT On 6/16/07 5:58 AM, in article 1181998690.167357.126210@u2g2000hsc.googlegroups.com, "ellen" <epdpster@gmail.com> wrote:
> ok - picked up the ampho rinse yesterday & i must be the 1st person in > town to get it; they handled it like it was radioactive material. [quoted text clipped - 21 lines] > thanks, > ellen If the ampho is in distilled water, irrigating with hypotonic solution can be quite uncomfortable.
ellen - 16 Jun 2007 23:11 GMT > On 6/16/07 5:58 AM, in article > 1181998690.167357.126...@u2g2000hsc.googlegroups.com, "ellen" [quoted text clipped - 26 lines] > > thanks, > > ellen appreciate all the feedback. i think i'll let you guys experiment with the hydrogen peroxide; i can only handle one variable at a time. i am happy that some of you are experiencing the elusive clarity (i'm interested in how it does for you over time).
the ampho b is mixed with distilled, so i expected some discomfort even with a decent temp & baking soda. but the interior of the side that i rinsed is still sore, so i just did saline irrigation today & will try the ampho again tomorrow - maybe in a smaller dose & with keeping a eye (nose?) out for any more allergic type reactions.
ellen
aboryszewski@gmail.com - 17 Jun 2007 02:49 GMT I used a syringe looking think to put the ampho-B in my sinuses and I would put my nose pointed toward the ceiling in order to let it sink in a little bit and then wait a good 30 min before using my nasacort.
The ampho along with Spornox didnt do anything for me, but I have heard great things about it.
ALex
Steven L. - 17 Jun 2007 03:41 GMT > ok - picked up the ampho rinse yesterday & i must be the 1st person in > town to get it; they handled it like it was radioactive material. > thought i had brought it up to room temp before irrigation (opted for > the trusty neti pot), but apparently not warm enough. definite > discomfort & residual swelling - my guess was from the temp. The discomfort is from the lack of saline--except for the little bit of ampho, it's like irrigating with pure water.
Unfortunately, saline can't be mixed with ampho.
Some physicians have tried Sporonox irrigation. Sporonox remains stable even in saline solution, so it's easier to take.
 Signature Steven D. Litvintchouk Email: sdlitvin@earthlinkNOSPAM.net Remove the NOSPAM before replying to me.
Murray Grossan - 17 Jun 2007 20:02 GMT On 6/16/07 7:41 PM, in article yb1di.1229$W_6.1005@newsread1.news.pas.earthlink.net, "Steven L." <sdlitvin@earthlinkNOSPAM.net> wrote:
> Unfortunately, saline can't be mixed with ampho. Actually it can. You can use it in the Hydro Pulse by using it immediately when it is added before it has time to ppt.
Rick B. - 17 Jun 2007 07:32 GMT >ok - picked up the ampho rinse yesterday & i must be the 1st person in >town to get it; they handled it like it was radioactive material. [quoted text clipped - 21 lines] >thanks, >ellen Ellen,
Not sure what to tell you. I tried ampho B and it never worked for me. Only thing for me that's worked for me is the allergy shots over the last year.
Rick
Murray Grossan - 17 Jun 2007 20:05 GMT On 6/16/07 11:32 PM, in article o8l973h4u2hq3takhel2dobqqban7ksn4d@4ax.com,
> I tried ampho B and it never worked for > me. So much depends on haw it is used. It is extremely unstable. We have it prepared in individual vials for single dose use.
Rick B. - 17 Jun 2007 23:47 GMT >On 6/16/07 11:32 PM, in article o8l973h4u2hq3takhel2dobqqban7ksn4d@4ax.com, > [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] >So much depends on haw it is used. It is extremely unstable. We have it >prepared in individual vials for single dose use. I live in Houston and the lab in Florida would ship it overnight (the lab said at 10 p.m.) by Fedex, and I'd get it at about 10 a.m. When shipped, it had packs to keep it cold. I'm assuming they were frozen when shipped. When I got them, they were cold, but the surrounding packs weren't frozen. I called the lab and IIRC they said something about if they could be left unrefrigerated up to 48 hours without losing potency I'd immediately put them in the refrigerator at work and take them home in the evening (which meant they were out at least another hour). I then would use the WaterPik to irrigate.
Anyway, I don't regret trying ampho B, and I stuck with it for two months, but immunotherapy worked where nothing else did or has worked for me.
Rick
ellen - 18 Jun 2007 20:00 GMT thanks to all for the input. i stuck with saline irrigation over the weekend because i was experiencing bad nasal congestion with sinus pain on the ampho b irrigated side as well as what felt like an open sore in my nostril near the bridge of the nose. continued to have some blood out of both sides & realized yesterday that i did have some visible open sores in the other nostril (not a problem that i've had before). all the symptoms seem to be calming down now. called the clinic & they don't want me to continue with it.
re: the stability of the mixture - the script called for 100mg of ampho in 1 liter of sterilized water with 1tsp of baking soda. i had the pharmacist cut that in half so it wouldn't be sitting around too long. & i was told to keep it fridged & covered, but no one talked about how long it would remain viable.
it's a bit discouraging to so quickly be an ampho b drop-out.
ellen
truehawk - 20 Jun 2007 04:58 GMT > thanks to all for the input. i stuck with saline irrigation over the > weekend because i was experiencing bad nasal congestion with sinus [quoted text clipped - 14 lines] > > ellen ellen: I have tried several different things for the goo. One thing that is pretty consistant is that there is an open bleeding sore left behind anything strong enough to lift the biofilm off the surface. It happens with licorice. It happened with triazole fungcide. It happened with a peroxide, EDTA, MSM combination that I concocted. It happened with one combination of statins and antifungals I was given. I have come to believe that the clear goo is partly composed of fibrin from a bleeding sore created by the bacteria. The bacteria lyse and consume the iron of the red blood cells, leaving the plasma to add to their goo matrix. if you can keep using the product, whatever it is, the pain will pass after a couple of days and that location will heal. The problem is that there are multiple colony sites, and some are always left behind. I have been able to clear out about 80% of what was once there one way or another. But if I don't continue to fight it, then it regains ground. Anyway I was given Ampho as an intense yellow powder in 200 ml bottles for injectables with instructions to use a syringe with 150 ml of distilled water and dissolve it, then use it in a spray bottle. I remember it burning a bit and bringing down loads of mucus. It was NOT an instant cure. Each daily dose was about 20 dollars if I remember, about the same effect as the licorice, but FAR more expensive. Sporanox at a 400mg per day oral dose works pretty well you can purchase enough for a month for about $100. on line. But it too works only so long as you take it, and you have to have your liver enzymes monitered. Tiresome. It would probably be productive to ask for Gentimycian washes which reportedly cure after a while. I suspect that would be because Gentimycian pretty specifically kills e-coli biofilms and e-coli is the species that builds the original amyloid ogolimer structure that allows all the other species to attach to the surface. Gent is also considered mondo toxic and has to be monitered. But remember bacteria make a variety of verilence factors,enzymes and toxins including the most potent toxins on earth, and the people that I have written to that used Gent were pretty happy with the result.
Nothing that I know is good for good.
I SOOO want to try an anti-e-coli vaccine.
ellen - 20 Jun 2007 17:00 GMT > > thanks to all for the input. i stuck with saline irrigation over the > > weekend because i was experiencing bad nasal congestion with sinus [quoted text clipped - 58 lines] > > I SOOO want to try an anti-e-coli vaccine. thanks elizabeth for that information. i see the doc on monday & will discuss next steps. it sounds like they pulled me off the ampho b due to allergy. the amount of inflammation it created was significant & it took a long time for it to calm down. many of the antifungal options sound like they've got some decent concerns attached to them. all i know right now is that i'm using up all my vacation money on doc visits & meds (& maybe soon - allergy shots?).
ellen
Johnny1000@webtv.net - 16 Jun 2007 16:29 GMT >well, getting ready to add the amphotericin > irrigation to the treatment regimen. I've done [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > call for the bulb or medical syringe. if anyone > has suggestions, i'd love to hear them. I'm wondering if you've ever tried the hydrogen peroxide irrigation. ..I realize it can hurt like hell, but I did my irrigation last night with it, and this morning my sinuses feel clear as a bell.
Personally.. I think this will ultimately be the route that will be prescribed in the future, (once the hydroxyl radical has been given more study). ...I know its use has helped me, whereas the plain salt water irrigation seems to do little more than assist the drainage by flushing the nasal interior. ....Jon.
Neil Brooks - 16 Jun 2007 16:57 GMT >I'm wondering if you've ever tried the hydrogen peroxide irrigation. >..I realize it can hurt like hell, but I did my irrigation last night >with it, and this morning my sinuses feel clear as a bell. I tend to agree, though ... I think I'm scientific-minded enough to know that I really can't say what does and does not work in my case; just that I'm having a good spell (fingers crossed).
I like the theory behind H202 being antimicrobial and effective against viruses, bacteria, and fungi (right?). The whole extra oxygen molecule thing? I dunno.
I bought 35% food-grade H202 over Ye Olde Internette. I add something like 15 drops from a syringe AND four drops of grapefruit seed extract (also did a phenomenal job (look on PubMed) against microbials) into my 2tsp kosher salt and warm water WaterPik irrigation.
If I stay consistent @ 2x/day, I'm pretty much clear as a bell, too.
I try (was it Johnny's suggestion?) the "don't blow afterward" thing, laying down and letting the residual work its way through, around, and out at bedtime, too.
I wish you all luck. Looking back on Feb, Mar, and April ... I want never to feel like that again :-)
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