> http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20070319/ap_on_he_me/sinus_study_antibiotic
I don't think this is news to anybody, but ... if you're posting on
this newsgroup ... this probably doesn't apply to you.
Chronic sinusitis ... from my understanding ... is a whole different
animal. One way to GET from an occasional infection TO a full-time
problem is to let infections go untreated for prolonged periods of
time.
If we don't drain, for example, because of a viral sinus infection,
then we're all too likely to GET a bacterial sinus infection. They
prevent this with antibiotics. WE try to head it off with steam,
decongestants, etc., etc.
For the record, I think I've 'beaten' maybe TWO in my life without
antibiotics, and--arguably--they've simply gone deeper into me,
exacerbating the problems I now have....
Did the docs who did the study do any direct examination of mucus for
microbiota?, make any attempt to use nRNA, or PCR?
Would these guys know an AODC from a DVCs or what either is other than
patterns in their alphabet soup?
Do they have any factual basis for their sweeping assertions?
Or do we have more pronouncements from the technically challanged "if
the lab didn't culture it in 3 days it ain't there" camp.
Grok these:
http://cmr.asm.org/cgi/content/abstract/10/2/320
http://centerforgenomicsciences.org/research/biofilm.html
http://www.pubmedcentral.nih.gov/articlerender.fcgi?artid=1351326
Metagenomics: exploreing the phylogeny and biochemistry of
nonculturable bacteria.
http://www.biochem.umd.edu/biochem/kahn/teach_res/Posters/Metagenomics.ppt
(this one from U. Maryand takes roughly forever to come up, but it is
worth it)
http://cat.inist.fr/?aModele=afficheN&cpsidt=2858014
http://jcm.asm.org/cgi/reprint/42/2/753.pdf
http://www.blackwellpublishing.com/book.asp?ref=9781555811969&site=1
http://www.medicalnewstoday.com/medicalnews.php?newsid=47091
Current Opinion in Otolaryngology & Head and Neck Surgery ... -
7:11pmThe biofilm paradigm of disease has not only shed light on the
pathogenesis of chronic otitis media, chronic tonsillitis,
cholesteatoma, and device-related ...
www.co-otolaryngology.com/pt/re/cooto/fulltext.00020840-200406000-00007.htm;jses
sionid=F24Sch6zh7HQTy1Slv...
- Similar pages
http://www.asm.org/microbe/index.asp?bid=42390
"Fulfilling Koch's Postulates Can Still Prove Challenging
Countless numbers and types of bacteria cannot be cultured with
currently available techniques and media. Some of these nonculturable
bacteria are considered dormant, and sometimes are called
"somnicells." Somnicells (sleeping cells) include those bacteria that,
when stressed, become dormant and cannot be cultured on available
media.
Some bacteria are more prone than others to enter into this "growth
stage" or survival strategy, including human pathogens such as
Legionella pneumophila, Vibrio cholerae, and Helicobacter pylori.
Sometimes pathogens are isolated from an infected tissue only to be
"lost" during successive culture attempts. This phenomenon is
responsible for many of the difficulties
in culturing these and other etiological agents.
Not-yet-cultured microbes likely constitute 99% of the microbes
thought to exist in the biosphere. L. pneumophila was in this category
before the 1980s. Other yet-to-be-cultured, disease-causing microbes
are Treponema pallidum, which causes syphilis, and Mycobacterium
leprae, which is responsible for leprosy, also known as Hansen's
disease. "
Ghamph - 23 Mar 2007 22:40 GMT
> Did the docs who did the study do any direct examination of mucus for
> microbiota?, make any attempt to use nRNA, or PCR?
[quoted text clipped - 4 lines]
> Or do we have more pronouncements from the technically challanged "if
> the lab didn't culture it in 3 days it ain't there" camp.
So where does that leave the poor victim like us?
If the doctors are mostly guessing then are we all test rabbits?
Jamffer
truehawk - 24 Mar 2007 07:18 GMT
> > Did the docs who did the study do any direct examination of mucus for
> > microbiota?, make any attempt to use nRNA, or PCR?
[quoted text clipped - 8 lines]
> If the doctors are mostly guessing then are we all test rabbits?
> Jamffer
Jamffer
Kinda. We are not all test rabbits, because a lot of ENTs have been
taught that if the cultures are negative, then there is nothing to
test. It is all in our head, so to speak.
The old way of explaining the world will prevail,
among those with no direct knowledge to the contrary,
until technologial inovation makes direct knowledge accessable to a
critical number of people
and evidence accumulates that there is a significant dispairity
between the prevailing story and reality.
The prevailing view will not shift until the evidence becomes
overwhelming and then the paradigm will shift suddenly.
The idea is to hammer on the medical schools and the congress that
funds them to do the research sooner rather than later.
One of the big problems is that Doctors that practice do not tend to
be microbiologists and
microbiologiests do not see patients and are often seen as lower in
the pecking order being mere "technicians",
so it may take a while to get through because of the cultural thing.
Meanwhile new compounds with biofilm disrupting properties are
reported at a rate of about 1 a week,, so one just has to keep on top
of it and try to help ones self until a much greater appreciaton of
the infectious character of most chronic diseases takes root and
growes in the medical community and we can go to the doctor and have
effective antibiofilm remedial measures prescribed for us.