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Medical Forum / Diseases and Disorders / Sinusitis / March 2007

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Citations on "pulsatile" irrigation

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kafir - 10 Mar 2007 20:59 GMT
I've had three sinus surgeries in the last 11 years, all at the Mass. Eye
and Ear Infirmary and all performed by surgeons on the staff of the Harvard
Medical School. In each case, nasal irrigation was a standard part of the
post-operative treatment. The doctors all agreed that routine irrigation
might have prophylactic value as well. None of the doctors had ever heard of
"pulsatile" irrigation or its alleged benefits for restoring cilia function.
The surgeon who did my last surgery, in 2002, was Ralph Metson, so I was
somewhat surprised at this recent exchange here about "pulsatile"
irrigation:

vresdfr wrote

"... If it cured people, your doctor would know about it, he/she would tell
you about it, you'd use it, you'd get better."

Murray Grossan replied

"Unless your doctors were at Mayo, Johns Hopkins, Denver Jewish, UC San
Diego, etc or had read the 32 + articles that recommend pulsatile irrigation
or had read  Harvard Medical School Guide to Healing Your Sinuses by Metson,
R. March 2005.  Recommends use of Hydro Pulse for sinus therapy."

So I got Metson's book, hoping to read that sometime after our 2002
discussion he had became aware of some study about "pulsatile" irrigation
and was now recommending it. In fact, he does not recommend "pulsatile"
irrigation in this book - he recommends irrigating with a bulb syringe. On
page 66 of the paperback edition he says, "There are many tools for
irrigating your nose, but I'm a fan of KISS (keep it simple, stupid). All
you really need is a bulb syringe..." (Interestingly, he also says tap water
is as good as distilled, and table salt is as good as kosher salt for
irrigation purposes).

He does refer to the Waterpik and Grossan tip (along with squeeze bottles
and Neti pots) in his section called "Alternatives to the Bulb Syringe", On
page 73, he says "Because the Waterpik delivers a relatively forceful,
intermittent stream of salt water, many individuals find these devices very
helpful to clear thick mucus and crusts." That's all he has to say on the
subject - a brief mention of anecdotal evidence with nothing about restoring
cilia or any study comparing its benefits to other irrigation methods. He
does refer to the "intermittent stream", so I guess it can be argued that he
now knows what "pulsatile" irrigation is.

This is the third time I have taken the trouble to track down one of Dr.
Grossan's citations and, in all three cases, I have found he exagerated or
otherwise misrepresented what the source was actually saying. I realize that
there are many people here who feel that they have been helped by
"pulsatile" irrigation and that other irrigation methods did not help. To
those people I'd say it's great that you've found some relief from this
horrible affliction. But it must be pointed out that Dr. Grossan's citations
(at least all the ones I've tracked down) are inaccurate at best and
deceptive at worst. In my view, this tends to discredit Dr. Grossan as a
medical man or scientist, and gives "pulsatile" irrigation the whiff of
snake oil.

Why make unsubstantiated claims for this product? Why provide misleading
citations knowing that surely some people will take the trouble to go to the
cited source?

If there is really some science behind "pulsatile" irrigation - any study at
all that compares it to other methods, supports its benefits for cilia
health, documents the Bernoulli effect, etc. - why not provide the full text
here, or at least a link?
MS - 11 Mar 2007 05:31 GMT
I agree. Nasal irrigation is recommended by many ENTs and allergists these
days (although not all--one very prominent one I went to recommended against
irrigation, and a few others as well), but none I have been to say it has to
be "pulsatile", or that one has to use Dr. Grossan's product. The purpose of
the irrigation is to wash out the accumulated gunk, none have said anything
to me about it restoring the cilia. (If it does restore the cilia, it
certainly has not worked for me. I have been irrigating pulsatilely(?) (via
Waterpik) for decades now, and my nasal-sinus system is as screwed up as
ever. (The irrigation does give me some relief, that's why I continue to do
it, but I have no illusion that it will cure me.)

After reading this newsgroup and sinus literature for many years, I have
seen no study comparing "pulsatile" irrigation with "non-pulsatile"
irrigation, to compare the results of both methods. That is absolutely the
only kind of study that could possibly show (or more likely, not show) that
"pulsatile is superior to non-pulsatile". From what I have seen and heard,
one form of irrigation is as good as another. And--- I have seen no evidence
that it has "cured" anyone, although it can definitely give some relief.

I think Dr. Grossan genuinely believes what he says. But he too easily
invents theories and believes in them wholeheartedly (for another instance,
that sea salt is more contaminated than land salt), without any scientific
evidence to support his theories, and gets mad when anyone dares question
him here. Not very scientific, IMHO. (He certainly has been using this NG
for many years to push his products. Just having that MD title gives him
credibility to some. And--we are all so tired of being sick, we are
sometimes too eager to believe someone who offers a "cure".)

> I've had three sinus surgeries in the last 11 years, all at the Mass. Eye
> and Ear Infirmary and all performed by surgeons on the staff of the
[quoted text clipped - 59 lines]
> health, documents the Bernoulli effect, etc. - why not provide the full
> text here, or at least a link?
MZB - 11 Mar 2007 21:32 GMT
I agree. I'm always suspicious when an expert has a financial interest as in
this case.

Mel
>I agree. Nasal irrigation is recommended by many ENTs and allergists these
>days (although not all--one very prominent one I went to recommended
[quoted text clipped - 88 lines]
>> health, documents the Bernoulli effect, etc. - why not provide the full
>> text here, or at least a link?
truehawk - 12 Mar 2007 00:09 GMT
To get a little better idea of this donnybrook take a look at David
Rabago's comments about irrigation and
Schied's reply.

http://www.aafp.org/afp/20051101/letters.html

In regard to Axleson's 1975 paper, if you kill off all the Smiths in a
community, there are still all the Joneses.
It is probable that Schied still thinks that a biofilm is something
that is shown on the discovery channel.
If he had ever taken time to look at mucus samples using the stain
available to your adverage water chemist at your sewage treatment
plant, or sections from his surgically removed samples he would
realize that there is a complicated community there, and if you drop a
single antibotic on the biofilm,  vulnerable organisms are quickly
replaced by those with more resistance.
What they all share is adhesion factors and signaling. defeat the
adhesion factors or find the right signal and it drops off.
neil0502@yahoo.com - 11 Mar 2007 06:05 GMT
I'd say this one has a ring of credibility to it and deserves Dr.
Grossan's direct response.

If he chooses to remain silent, then I, for one, will construe that as
a validation of everything that kafir has posted.

That said, I hope it doesn't turn out that way.....
truehawk - 11 Mar 2007 09:51 GMT
Geeze, this is just fluid dynamics.
If you are going to clean something, pulse flow works better because
it does not allow the development of a boundary layer with zero
velocity at the surface.

Also pluse flow gets into trenches and cravasses better.

Check out the 8th slide of this presentation.

http://www.semizone.com/product-file/64/surf264/overview_notes.pdf

What it shows is that when there is a steady flow of fluid across a
fluid filled trench, the flow causes
the fluid in the trench to rotate, but there is little exchange
between the fluid in the trench and the cleaning
flow.
In contrast, with pulsating flow the trench is flushed.

That said, the shear required to peal off a mature biofilm from boiler
tubing is about 53Pa.  High speed air is used to drive  droplets to
sufficent speed that the impact has enough energy to remove the film.
Not something that you would want in your nose if you ever planned to
use your head for anything but a paint layer again.

At the pressures recommended, pulse irrigation would only be able to
remove biofilms in their very earliest stages of development.
Irrigation might keep you from getting CS if you got the flu and did
not wear a mask, but irrigated regularly.

If you already have CS it is very likely you already have at least one
spot of biofilm.  Flushing off the down stream surfaces regularly
might keep the film from spreading as much as it might, but irrigation
with water or saline would not remove it unless for some reason it has
decided to leave anyway.
Another method would have to be used to remove it. like the use of a
quorem sensing chemical to tell it that it is time to move on,
mechanical debridment, or radio ablation.
judy.n - 11 Mar 2007 13:59 GMT
I also had surgery by Dr. Metson in 2000, and he only advocated the
bulb syringe: as I posted before, I had a bad outcome, a pseudomonas
bone infection, and Dr. Metson was not helpful post-op. My local ENT
did two surgeries to remove dead bone and scars and he was adamant
that the dark wet bulb syringe harbored pseudomonas. He also felt that
the water pik like devices could be harmful, and he had me use the
neti pot: easy to clean and he felt a high volume, low pressure flow
was the best bet. He also likes the head position of the neti for
irrigating. My local ENT actually tries all the irrigation products on
himself.
 I concur that Dr. Grossan's sources are often outdated, and it's
very interesting to have someone actually read a source and find that
it doesn't support the claims.
 One of the best discussions about irrigation was in a comment after
a family practice article on quality of life with irrigation--using
the neti pot--by an ENT from Pitt. She just advocated hypertonic
saline and a device that could be thoroughly cleaned to avoid "water
loving bacteria".
 http://www.annfammed.org/cgi/eletters/4/4/295
Berrylin J Ferguson,
Pittsburgh, USA
M.D., University of Pittsburgh School of Medicine
Send response to journal:
Re: Commentary on: "Qualitative Aspects of Nasal Irrigation Use by
Patients With Chronic Sinus Disease in a Multimethod Study"

Email Berrylin J Ferguson

The authors report on the quality of life improvements and reflections
of over two dozen individuals utilizing hypertonic saline nasal
irrigation on an as needed basis. The findings provide validation of
the anecdotal experience of many rhinologists. Unique to this study
was an apparent added benefit of group training and discussions, which
gave these sufferers an additional benefit conferred from "group
support", a benefit acknowledged in many disease states from cancer
support groups to chronic debilitating diseases. I had not previously
considered that this kind of group support might be helpful for
chronic rhinosinusitis, but from the interviews it appears that it is
indeed appreciated by the participants.

I can think of no way to perform a blinded controlled study of nasal
irrigations, but that doesn't mean they are not effective. In fact,
the efficacy of the irrigation frequently overshadows the efficacy of
any number of added ingredients including antifungals, antibacterials,
and topical steroids.1 The irrigation serves to remove nasal debris in
noses that are not self-cleaning, which is particularly a problem in
patients with nasal polyps or who have undergone extensive sinus/nasal
surgery.

Nasal irrigation can also be helpful as a rinse to remove mucus before
the application of a topical steroid or antibiotic. I commonly
recommend a commercial nasal lavage kit, of which there are a half
dozen or so available to assist with compliance. There are many
commercially available nasal irrigators.2 I also provide our patients
with a "recipe" so that they can make their own saline irrigation.
Patients should be warned to use filtered or boiled water, and to make
sure the device used for irrigation is cleaned frequently to prevent
iatrogenic inoculation with water loving microbes such as Pseudomonas
and Serratia.

The debate of hypertonic versus normal saline irrigation is sure to
continue.3 I usually provide the patient with the recipe for
hypertonic saline and suggest that they reduce the amount of salt they
add, if they find that the hypertonic mixture is irritating.
Interestingly, hypertonic inhaled saline has been shown to be
beneficial in cystic fibrosis.4 Seven percent of patients with chronic
rhinosinusitis carry a mutation for cystic fibrosis compared to 2% of
normal controls. Thus there may be a variance in response to
hypertonic versus isotonic saline irrigations, depending on the cause
of the patient's rhinosinusitis.5

Finally, the authors capture in a qualitative manner the relief that
patients feel with this technique. I still recall the words of a
patient on her return visit, "I can't believe I've been suffering for
30 years with the sinus condition when relief was as easy and
inexpensive as this salt water wash." A trial of hypertonic or
isotonic saline nasal rinse is inexpensive, does not promote bacterial
resistance, and safe. Saline irrigations should be a therapeutic
alternative offered to any patients suffering from chronic
rhinosinusitis.

References

1. Ferguson BJ. Antifungal Nasal Washes for Chronic Rhinosinusitis:
What's Therapeutic -- The Watch or the Antifungal? J Allergy Clin
Immunology 2003;111(11)37-8.

2. Tomooka LT, Murphy C, Davidson TM. Clinical Study Literature Review
of Nasal Irrigation. Laryngoscope 2000;110(11)89-93.

3. Garavello W, Romagnoli M, Gaini RM. Hypertonic or Ice Tonic Saline
for Allergic Rhinitis in Children. Pediatric Allergy and Immunology
2005;16:91.

4. Elkins MR, Robinson M, Rose BR, Harbour C, Moriarty CP, Marks GB,
Belousova EG, Xuan W, Bye PT. National Hypertonic Saline in Cystic
Fibrosis (NHSCF) Study Group. A Controlled Trial of Long-term Inhaled
Hypertonic Saline in Patients with Cystic Fibrosis. N Engl J Med
2006;354:229-240.

5. Wang X, Moylan B, Leopold DA, Kim J, Rubenstein RC, Togias A, Proud
D, Zeitlin PL, Cutting GR. Mutation in the Gene Responsible for Cystic
Fibrosis and Predisposition to Chronic Rhinosinusitis in the General
Population. JAMA 2000;284:1814-1819.

Competing interests:   None declared

Susan has taken a lot of grief for suggesting that Dr. Grossan's
claims are unproven. I think that often people hold strong beliefs,
based on clinical experience, but have no evidence to support them.

Thanks for reading the Metson book. Personally I had such a bad
experience with him, I couldn't look at it.
Judy

> Geeze, this is just fluid dynamics.
> If you are going to clean something, pulse flow works better because
[quoted text clipped - 33 lines]
> quorem sensing chemical to tell it that it is time to move on,
> mechanical debridment, or radio ablation.
 
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