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Medical Forum / Diseases and Disorders / Sinusitis / March 2007

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ATTN Anyone & Everyone. Here are my CT Scans. Help!

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dygerati@gmail.com - 03 Mar 2007 03:29 GMT
Alright, I've posted a time or two previously regarding a condition
I've been suffering from for about a year. Much of my experience has
been documented at the following URL:

http://groups.google.com/group/alt.support.sinusitis/browse_thread/thread/de1b06
0290d1becc/25e43a8aff2d7f3d?hl=en


That post was made ~6 months ago, but most of it still holds true
today. Here's a quick recap of symptoms:

>1 Year Ago
-Dizziness/disorientation
-Daily Post-nasal drip (phlem, bleh)

>10 Months Ago
-Headaches (forehead, and wrap around the back at times): usually
fairly mild, but ever-present. They were very severe for a short time
directly after I was sick (just a cold, I believe), but at this time I
didn't know that I had Sinusitis and almost fled to the ER. Currently
they're pretty mild most of the time but seem to be aggrevated by a
"busy" environment.

>6 Months Ago
-Persistent cough
-Wheezy at times

*All of the symptoms mentioned still continue now. There has been
other scattered, less-consistent symptoms such as lethargy, but it's
not a type of misery I can count on daily :-/.

Ok, and the reason for this post - I just got a new set of of CT scans
(the 2nd round), and a new ENT to look them  over. He claims that they
show more-or-less nothing but healthy sinuses. What they do show,
however, is a deviated septum (as I recall), and an
enlarged.....something rather. Anywho, he recommends surgery to
correct the "structural" problems. I want to know if this is
warranted, and if it it really could potentially be the root of my
woes.

Basically, whether I should do the surgery.

I've uploaded all of the images of my CT scans, as well as the
Radiology report, to a website for you to see. I'm calling out for any
and all advice/comments/jokes (funny ones exclusively)/etc. The scans
can be found here:

http://www.cascadefire.com/dygerati/

This is was happens when a Computer Scientist gets sick.    :-]

Thanks!
truehawk - 03 Mar 2007 19:47 GMT
On Mar 2, 10:29 pm, dyger...@gmail.com wrote:
> Alright, I've posted a time or two previously regarding a condition
> I've been suffering from for about a year. Much of my experience has
[quoted text clipped - 49 lines]
>
> Thanks!

You might want to look into finding an ENT that does somnoplasty or
radioablation.
truehawk - 04 Mar 2007 01:21 GMT
Comparison of the effectiveness and safety of radiofrequency
turbinoplasty and traditional surgical technique in treatment of
inferior turbinate hypertrophy.Cavaliere M, Mottola G, Iemma M.
Department of Otorhinolaryngology, Moscati Hospital, Avellino, Italy.
matorl@inwind.it

OBJECTIVES: Inferior turbinate hypertrophy is one of the major causes
of nasal airway obstruction. Medical treatment often produces
insufficient improvements. In these cases, surgical reduction of
inferior turbinates can be proposed. Many different techniques are
currently available. We prospectively evaluate the safety and
effectiveness of radiofrequency volumetric tissue reduction (RFVTR)
compared with the traditional surgical technique. METHODS: The study
was conducted on 3 groups of 75 patients with symptoms and signs of
nasal obstruction associated with inferior turbinate hypertrophy
refractory to medical therapy. In group A, the turbinoplasty (TP) was
performed using the classical surgical submucosal resection; in group
B, the RFVTR was applied to inferior turbinate; and group C patients
were not treated and served as control subjects. Nasal endoscopy,
visual analogue scale (VAS), anterior active positional
rhinomanometry, and saccharin tests were used to assess treatment
outcomes at the end of week 1 and months 1 and 3 after surgery.
RESULTS: Turbinate edema and secretions decreased significantly (P <
0.05) in groups A and B from 1 month after surgery. The secretions in
group A increased temporarily on the seventh day after surgery.
Concerning the nasal obstruction and related symptoms, significant
improvement was observed at 1 month after treatment in all patients (P
< 0.05) and continued up to 3 months after surgery (P < 0.0001).
Rhinomanometric measurements demonstrated a significant nasal flow
increase at 3 months (P < 0.0001). The nasal mucociliary transport
time increased in group A at week 1. The difference among the 3 groups
at month 1 was observed not significant. CONCLUSION: In this study, we
demonstrated that both RFVTR and TP are effective in improving nasal
obstruction and related nasal symptoms. In support of the RFVTR,
different factors are important: it can be performed in local
anaesthesia; it does not require a nasal package; it does not cause
either a change of mucociliary function or an increase of secretions
and crusts; and the patient can be discharged immediately after
treatment. Therefore, we suggest that the RFVTR offers an efficient,
gentle, and function-maintaining alternative to TP. However, because
of the short follow-up, future investigations are needed for a more
exhaustive evaluation of equivalency of the 2 turbinate procedures.

PMID: 16360523 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?itool=abstractplus&db=pubmed&cmd=R
etrieve&dopt=abstractplus&list_uids=16585858


Long-term results of inferior turbinate hypertrophy with
radiofrequency treatment: a new standard of care?Porter MW, Hales NW,
Nease CJ, Krempl GA.
Department of Otorhinolaryngology, University of Oklahoma Health
Sciences Center, Oklahoma City, Oklahoma, USA.

OBJECTIVE: The objective of this study was to report the long-term
efficacy of radiofrequency volumetric tissue reduction (RFVTR) and to
compare this with other accepted surgical treatments of inferior
turbinate hypertrophy. STUDY DESIGN AND SETTING: Prospective, 2-year
follow-up of 19 patients originally enrolled in a prospective,
randomized, single blinded, placebo controlled trial for treatment of
inferior turbinate hypertrophy with RFVTR. Patients evaluated their
severity of obstruction, frequency of obstruction, and overall ability
to breathe by way of a 10 cm visual analogue scale. RESULTS: RFVTR for
inferior turbinate hypertrophy showed continued benefit at 2 years
posttreatment, with no indication of increasing symptomatology. The
benefit demonstrated in frequency of obstruction, severity of
obstruction, and overall ability to breathe (P < .05) was maintained
at 2 years. No complications occurred. Review of the literature shows
lower short- and long-term complications for RFVTR compared with other
surgical methods CONCLUSION: RFVTR is effective in treating inferior
turbinate hypertrophy with sustained benefit at 2 years follow-up
while resulting in fewer complications than other surgical methods.
Significance: RFVTR is a relatively new procedure, and therefore there
are few long-term evaluations of its effectiveness; this is the first
prospective study to document successful outcomes at 2 years follow-
up.

PMID: 16585858 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]
Steven L. - 05 Mar 2007 05:13 GMT
> Alright, I've posted a time or two previously regarding a condition
> I've been suffering from for about a year. Much of my experience has
[quoted text clipped - 8 lines]
> -Dizziness/disorientation
> -Daily Post-nasal drip (phlem, bleh)

I think I remember you.  Weren't you the one who thought he was having
cardiovascular problems too, like palpitations or something like that?

>> 10 Months Ago
> -Headaches (forehead, and wrap around the back at times): usually
[quoted text clipped - 7 lines]
> -Persistent cough
> -Wheezy at times

Where exactly is the "tickle" that is making you cough?  Down deep in
your chest, or a little bit below your Adam's apple, or in the back of
your throat?

And do you still have it?  If not, how long did it last?

Here's why I'm asking:  Even CT scans are not 100% reliable.   They can
have a 5-10% rate of false negatives; that is, a tiny blockage in your
sinuses somewhere can make you feel miserable (especially if you're
particularly sensitive to it) but may not show up well on the CT scan.
If so, then the main advantage of having the surgery is that your
surgeon will actually push his endoscope right into problematic sinus
cavities and he may find something with his own eyes that the CT scan
missed.  (Going right into the sinus cavities requires that you be
anesthetized, which they only do if you have surgery.)

That was my experience.  I had all the symptoms of chronic sinusitis but
the CT scan didn't show all the things my surgeon found when he finally
operated on me.  For that reason, it might be worthwhile for you to have
the surgery even when the CT scan doesn't show significant sinus
disease, because it gives the surgeon maximum opportunity to see what is
really happening in there.

Finally, if your cough persists even today, then you may also need to
rule out (or rule in) adult-onset asthma, which can be triggered by
chronic sinus infections.  So that's another reason I asked you about
the coughing.

Signature

Steven D. Litvintchouk
Email:  sdlitvin@earthlinkNOSPAM.net
Remove the NOSPAM before replying to me.

dygerati@gmail.com - 05 Mar 2007 20:08 GMT
>>You might want to look into finding an ENT that does somnoplasty or
>>radioablation.

Isn't somnoplasty a treatment for sleep troubles - notably sleeping
loudly? Radioablation sounds interesting, I'll mention it to my ENT on
our next visit. I'm not sure of the term for the surgery he has
already suggested, another question for next time, but it's purpose
was to correct the deviated septum and shave some off the "enlarged
turbinate."

> I think I remember you.  Weren't you the one who thought he was having
> cardiovascular problems too, like palpitations or something like that?

Heh, yesm - that was me. That actually had to do with an allergic
reaction that I thought I was having to Cipro, and I stopped taking it
after about a week. It was also around that time that the lethargy was
rendering me mostly useless...

> Where exactly is the "tickle" that is making you cough?  Down deep in
> your chest, or a little bit below your Adam's apple, or in the back of
> your throat?

I've been thinking about this throughout my recent coughing fits...I'm
going to have to go with the chest as its origin.

> And do you still have it?  If not, how long did it last?

Still going strong, often times worse at certain times of the day. An
example would be shortly after work (past 5pm), and then improving
after dinner and such. It was my thought that getting some food/drink
down "cleans the pipes," if only temporarily.

> Here's why I'm asking:  Even CT scans are not 100% reliable.   They can
> have a 5-10% rate of false negatives; that is, a tiny blockage in your
[quoted text clipped - 5 lines]
> missed.  (Going right into the sinus cavities requires that you be
> anesthetized, which they only do if you have surgery.)

I've had similar hopes, and it's one possibility I'm counting in favor
of the surgery. However the surgery suggested, as I understand it,
doesn't even enter the sinus cavities, and so I suppose wouldn't allow
for such a chance encounter... Also of note is that the Radiology
report actually showed "mild left maxillary sinus disease," but my ENT
implied that it was negligible, and he probably won't attempt to do
anything about it.

It's also my understanding that a deviated septum causes frequent
sinus infections. So, I'm hoping that even if the infection itself
isn't showing up on the CT's, and isn't taken out via surgery, it will
clear up once the structural problems have been corrected. Is this a
reasonable thought?

Thanks for the feedback!
rick@spamgmail.com - 06 Mar 2007 05:59 GMT
>It's also my understanding that a deviated septum causes frequent
>sinus infections. So, I'm hoping that even if the infection itself
>isn't showing up on the CT's, and isn't taken out via surgery, it will
>clear up once the structural problems have been corrected. Is this a
>reasonable thought?

Can you breathe out of both nostrils ok?  If not, don't get it done in
hopes of curing your sinus infections.

Go back and read some of my posts from months gone by.  Briefly,
though, in 1995 I had deviated septum surgery.  Infections stopped for
awhile, then continued to the point that about 2 years ago, I had
chronic sinus infections.  I go back and have CT scans retaken, and
what do you know - it's still deviated.  Only this time the doc says
no surgery.  Doc #2 asks the question in my first paragraph.  I stick
with him as regular doctor, despite Doc #1 saying I needed to have
ethmoid sinus surgery.  

I'm finishing up 6 months of allergy shot treatment.  Only have had
two infections the entire time.  I still have a deviated septum, but I
can breathe fine, so who cares.  The important thing is I  have my
life back.

Oh, and I recall reading something that even though your doc says
there's no infection, he'd operate.  Do what you want, but I'd run,
not walk, to a 2nd and 3rd opinion if need be.  

Having the inside of your nose operated on is no picnic.  Logically
thinking through the process, realizing some doctors like to cut, or
that's all they know what to do for you, and then getting as far away
from that mindset...well, the freedom of that  is like a walk in the
park.
dygerati@gmail.com - 07 Mar 2007 02:25 GMT
> Can you breathe out of both nostrils ok?  If not, don't get it done in
> hopes of curing your sinus infections.

So, you're saying that if I can breathe through my nostrils, then it
could possibly be causing my infections? Interesting...I can breathe
through them fairly normally. They are often stopped up, but I think
that's normal for this time of year.

> Having the inside of your nose operated on is no picnic.  Logically
> thinking through the process, realizing some doctors like to cut, or
> that's all they know what to do for you, and then getting as far away
> from that mindset...well, the freedom of that  is like a walk in the
> park.

I've heard the same, but to be fair, I've also heard it hailed by some
as the "instant cure" they never thought possible. My hope is that it
would be the ladder, but I'm trying to gather as much info before hand
as possible before I go under the knife. This guy was actually my 2nd
opinion. The first guy I went to had his secretary call and tell me I
had no sinusitis after the CT scans, not even a follow-up appointment.
I decided that he was an idiot and sought out another ENT...

I really appreciate the feedback guys.
rick@spamgmail.com - 07 Mar 2007 06:14 GMT
>> Can you breathe out of both nostrils ok?  If not, don't get it done in
>> hopes of curing your sinus infections.
[quoted text clipped - 3 lines]
>through them fairly normally. They are often stopped up, but I think
>that's normal for this time of year.

No.  What I'm saying is that supposedly fixing my deviated septum not
only didn't help with infections, but it deviated at some point within
the last 10 years.  The point is:  if you can breathe out of the
nostril that appears to be collapsed, I wouldn't get the septum
straightened, because it didn't work for me.  

But if you're having sinus surgery done at the same time, and you have
trouble breathing out of the collapsed side, then sure have the septum
straightened.

>> Having the inside of your nose operated on is no picnic.  Logically
>> thinking through the process, realizing some doctors like to cut, or
[quoted text clipped - 7 lines]
>as possible before I go under the knife. This guy was actually my 2nd
>opinion.

If the 2nd guy rushes you, go and get a 3rd opinion.  I forget.  Did
he give you any alternate treatments? (ampho-B for fungus, irrigation,
maybe going to an allergist, etc.)

The first guy I went to had his secretary call and tell me I
>had no sinusitis after the CT scans, not even a follow-up appointment.
>I decided that he was an idiot and sought out another ENT...

I wasn't there so I don't know, but if he's an ENT who turned down a
chance to cut on you, I'd want to know why.

Did you get a copy of the records from the first doc?  What did they
say?

>I really appreciate the feedback guys.

The more informed we are, the better decision we tend to make.
dygerati@gmail.com - 09 Mar 2007 02:10 GMT
> If the 2nd guy rushes you, go and get a 3rd opinion.  I forget.  Did
> he give you any alternate treatments? (ampho-B for fungus, irrigation,
> maybe going to an allergist, etc.)

The measures taken thus far to alleviate my woes include a bombardment
of anti-biotics (Augmentin & a little Cipro), and, well, I guess
that's about it. Everything else was simply recon (CT's, MRI's & blood
tests).

The possibility of going to an allergist is something I'm still
considering, and might be worth while. The reason I hesitate is that
my environment has changed so much throughout the course of this
condition that I've personally ruled out such a possibility. That, and
bringing another specialist into the mix always tacks on another 2
months before I get any more answers.

Irrigation...I keep hearing that, I'll look into it shortly.

> I wasn't there so I don't know, but if he's an ENT who turned down a
> chance to cut on you, I'd want to know why.
>
> Did you get a copy of the records from the first doc?  What did they
> say?

I got the distinct impression from the first ENT that he was simply
rushing me through the system. He seemed to take no interest in my
case, and fired the "your healthy" non-diagnosis at me the first
chance he got. In short, he was a w.nk.
rick@spamgmail.com - 09 Mar 2007 03:19 GMT
>The possibility of going to an allergist is something I'm still
>considering, and might be worth while. The reason I hesitate is that
>my environment has changed so much throughout the course of this
>condition that I've personally ruled out such a possibility. That, and
>bringing another specialist into the mix always tacks on another 2
>months before I get any more answers.

Doc #1 discouraged me from going to an allergist, saying it would take
18 months for it to take effect.  He wanted to do surgery.  Had I not
gone to Doc #2, and taken the time to make sure that I had exhausted
reasonable options, (including going to an allergist) I would probably
be sitting here post-sinus surgery, still with infections, and
miserable.  

As it is, I've had no surgery, and only 2 episodes of sinusitis in the
past 7 months.  Mold was definitely my problem, now I'm at the end of
my regular treatment, and ready to go and have maintenance shots once
a month (after I see the doc next week).  

I wouldn't rush to judgment about whether immunotherapy (aka allergy
shots) can or can't help you.  The beauty of the allergy tests is that
you can find out the results within 30 minutes.  Why not give it a
shot? <pun intended>

>Irrigation...I keep hearing that, I'll look into it shortly.

You really need to try it.  It doesn't work for everyone - me included
- and I used to do it twice a day for months.  We're all different -
one size does not fit all.

>> Did you get a copy of the records from the first doc?  What did they
>> say?
[quoted text clipped - 3 lines]
>case, and fired the "your healthy" non-diagnosis at me the first
>chance he got. In short, he was a w.nk.

Well, you're better off without him.  Sounds to me like you got zero
opinion, so the doc who wants to cut on you is your first opinion.  Go
get a second opinion and - like I've said before - get not only his or
her opinion about whether or not you should have surgery, but ask if
he/she was your treating physician, how would his treatment differ, or
what he/she would suggest as additional therapy.  Ask him/her about an
allergist.  Ask for a recommendation for an allergist.

My Doc #2 was the one who suggested I go to an allergist.  I did - and
I'm glad of it.

If all that fails, and you can't stand it anymore, or there is a
strong likelihood that having surgery is going to make a major
positive difference for you, then and only then have the surgery done.

Hope this helps.

Rick
 
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