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Medical Forum / Diseases and Disorders / Sinusitis / November 2006Kefir: Crazy Idea !
Yesterday I received water and milk Kefir. It is a mix of bacteria and yeast which is said to have good effect on the digestion and on many bacteria related diseases. Suddenly I had the idea to fight sinusitis bacteria or viruses with other "good" bacteria. I know it could be very dangerous so I won't do it. But I would like to know if someone has ideas / info on those "biological wars".. G@b I eat yogurt every day for lunch as it is good for digestive problems. I was told to do this after I had an ulcer and when taking antibiotics. shirleyann > Yesterday I received water and milk Kefir. > It is a mix of bacteria and yeast which is said to have good [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > But I would like to know if someone has ideas / info on those > "biological wars".. The two things are not comparable. Your digestive system is constantly excreting bacteria. But a blocked sinus can cause a dangerous infection even with bacteria that would be relatively harmless in the digestive tract. Because being blocked, drainage is impossible. Enterococcus faecalis is a good example. Many of us harbor it in our intestines. But it doesn't belong in our sinuses (or anywhere else in our body).  SignatureSteven D. Litvintchouk Email: sdlitvin@earthlinkNOSPAM.net Remove the NOSPAM before replying to me. > > Yesterday I received water and milk Kefir. > > It is a mix of bacteria and yeast which is said to have good [quoted text clipped - 21 lines] > Email: sdlitvin@earthlink.net > Remove the NOSPAM before replying to me. In the past i had two local sinus cultures done and they cultured Enterobacter from my nose, i don't know if that is what has caused my sinusitis but the last culture basically nothing grew because of thr tobramycin irrigation that my ENT has me on. How the heck would that type of bacteria get in my nose? I f you had a fistula after a tooth removal could that be the culprit? The original post about probiotics actually makes sense. My ENT tells me that in Europe they will use probiotics in recurrent bacterial pharyngitis, to encourage the growth of normal flora. I know a local gastroenterologist who used probiotics recently with a patient who had a severe case of clostridium difficile colitis. If we can encourage the colonization with normal flora, it will discourage the colonization with pathologic bugs--like enterobacter--which is never in normal respiratory flora. So, use of probiotics is gaining acceptance in Europe, and with antibiotic resistance increasing, will likely get some play here as well. When I was a resident, I was involved in the failed attempt to save a baby who died of e coli sepsis at one week of age. It was remarked that this e coli sepsis usually only occured in formula fed babies because breast fed babies guts became colonized with lactobacillus, not e coli. (You could smell the difference in breast fed babies stools vs. formula fed babies.) So, encouraging "good bacteria" in your GI tract with kefir can only help. Judy > > > Yesterday I received water and milk Kefir. > > > It is a mix of bacteria and yeast which is said to have good [quoted text clipped - 28 lines] > type of bacteria get in my nose? I f you had a fistula after a tooth > removal could that be the culprit? On 11/5/06 10:49 AM, in article 1162752549.429730.214170@f16g2000cwb.googlegroups.com, "judy.n" > The original post about probiotics actually makes sense. My ENT tells > me that in Europe they will use probiotics in recurrent bacterial [quoted text clipped - 43 lines] >> >>Judy its not just in Europe, its also in California. Probably more yogurt related material sold here. > The original post about probiotics actually makes sense. My ENT tells > me that in Europe they will use probiotics in recurrent bacterial > pharyngitis, to encourage the growth of normal flora. I know a local > gastroenterologist who used probiotics recently with a patient who had > a severe case of clostridium difficile colitis. If we can encourage the > colonization with normal flora, That makes NO SENSE, for the reason I said. The sinuses should NOT be colonized with "normal flora," because of their propensity to block up. Ideally the sinuses should be STERILE. No bacteria of any kind should be colonizing them. The entire digestive system, from your mouth all the way thru to your anus, can be thought of as "outside" your body. In healthy people, it's a sealed system in which diffusion of nutrients into your body and wastes from your body takes place very carefully; bacteria in your digestive system just don't go traveling all the way thru the rest of your body. Bacteria that live in your digestive system are in a symbiotic relationship with it and most of them are excreted every time you defecate. DO NOT compare colonizing any part of your digestive system with "normal flora" to colonizing the rest of your body. You don't want "normal flora" colonizing your sinuses, your brain, your heart, etc. SignatureSteven D. Litvintchouk Email: sdlitvin@earthlinkNOSPAM.net Remove the NOSPAM before replying to me. > > The original post about probiotics actually makes sense. My ENT tells > > me that in Europe they will use probiotics in recurrent bacterial [quoted text clipped - 21 lines] > flora" to colonizing the rest of your body. You don't want "normal > flora" colonizing your sinuses, your brain, your heart, etc. I think she is talking about the normal respiratory flora that are in everyone's nasopharynx; wouldn't you think that some of these bad "gut" bacteria could get into the mouth through reflux which everyone has to some extent and then find their way to the sinuses? . What other explanation could you have for them being there? Although not opposed to sinus surgery (don't believe I'd be here today without it), it makes the openings wider, so more things could theoretically get in. That is one reason I have been more for the least radical surgical approach that is necessary. In my first surgery they made "windows" which I have been told by most recent 2 ENTs isn't done much any more. The 2nd surgery was just to open up the blocked frontals and sphenoids. I may need more later, but I am slowing improving. I've also questioned the use of irrigation and make sure I sterilze my water now and sometimes even rinse out my mouth with a dilute hydrogen peroxide mixture before irrigating. I have to irrigate however; would never be able to get the junk out without it. Kathyw On 11/6/06 5:38 AM, in article wVG3h.3036$L6.1425@newsread3.news.pas.earthlink.net, "Steven L." <sdlitvin@earthlinkNOSPAM.net> wrote: >> The original post about probiotics actually makes sense. My ENT tells >> me that in Europe they will use probiotics in recurrent bacterial [quoted text clipped - 21 lines] > flora" to colonizing the rest of your body. You don't want "normal > flora" colonizing your sinuses, your brain, your heart, etc. In terms of reducing total bacterial count in your mouth, gums taking probiotics can be a help. No, not placed in the nose, but mouth. Steven, Obviously there are parts of the body that are sterile, and other parts that are colonized. Yes, the sinuses should be sterile, but the mechanism to keep them sterile is a relatively small natural ostea, protective enzymes in the mucous, and functional cilia. When any of these are disrupted, the sinuses are continguous with the nose, which is colonized with flora and the throat, colonized as well--and if we widen the ostea, scar down cilia, remove protective mucous, douche our noses--we introduce bacteria into usually sterile areas. If we can maintain "healthy" bacteria in the respiratory tract, we're less likely to encourage the colonization with potentially pathological bacteria. They do use probiotic oral flora to treat and discourage strep infections in Europe. So do some US physicians. Other parts of the body where healthy flora exist next to sterile areas is the uterus: we can clearly introduce infection into the uterus by douching or introducing medical instruments into the os of the cervix, or by placing an IUD. Again, we try to maintain healthy lactobacillus flora in the area that is colonized. So, probiotics are useful in many situations. And I'm talking about eating them, not rinsing your nose with them. In Europe they have patients gargle with healthy mouth flora to treat recurrent strep. Judy > > The original post about probiotics actually makes sense. My ENT tells > > me that in Europe they will use probiotics in recurrent bacterial [quoted text clipped - 26 lines] > Email: sdlitvin@earthlinkNOSPAM.net > Remove the NOSPAM before replying to me. > Yesterday I received water and milk Kefir. > It is a mix of bacteria and yeast which is said to have good [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > "biological wars".. > G@b Are you talking about eating it or actually using it in irrigation water; otherwise, I don't understand why you think eating it would be dangerous. kathyw I was talking about both ingesting or irrigating Kefir Of course the latter being probably very dangerous because as someone underlined we don't know what are the effects in the sinuses ... So I will simply eat it But if someone had info on a particular bacteria or yeast being not harmful in the sinuses I would try it too. Anyway scientific studies show that kefir can help against inflammation even in the arms !! So it could help sinuses too by ingestion. G@b ... Experiments performed with mice [against mice really], revealed kefiran exhibited anti-tumour properties. In these experiments, orally administered kefiran was found to reduce the size of tumours, by inducing a specific immune response in mice. Much of this early research was performed in Japan [3-6]. Recent research evaluated kefir grains induced a systemic anti-inflammatory response in kefir-grain fed rats [7]. The author initially discovered the anti-inflammatory property of kefir grains, through the implementation of ingesting adequate amounts of kefir grains to successfully correct Ulcerative Colitis in his case. The anti-inflammatory effect was later investigated and correlated scientifically by Prof. Jose M. Schneedorf et. al. More recently, the author observed that the ingestion of 1/3 cup of kefir grains taken daily over 7 days, benefited 3 cases where the individuals suffered from pain associated with Repetitive Strain Injury [RSI] of the right arm, due to excessive use of a computer keyboard over some years. These latter findings further suggest the systemic anti-inflammatory property of kefir-grain kefiran, possibly in combination with the organisms of the grain, to encourage a health benefit through more than one component. A study on the effects of kefiran in laboratory rats demonstrated that kefiran can significantly suppress increased blood pressure and reduced the serum cholesterol levels in SHRSP/Hos rats, when subjects consumed excessive dietary cholesterol. The study also explains kefiran supplementation had the ability to significantly lower blood glucose in KKAy mice. In addition, the administration of kefiran in constipated SD rats caused an obvious improvement in the levels of faecal moisture and wet weights of faeces [8]. The combination of all the above, suggests that kefiran, and in fact kefir grains are useful as functional food to prevent or control some common occurring diseases. This further reinforces what the author has suggested for many years, that the regular ingestion of kefir grains, should be considered of great, practical importance. References 2. Arihara K, Tobo T, Adachi S. Int J Food Microbiol [1990];11:127-34. Immunofluorescence microscopic studies on distribution of L. kefiranofaciens and L. kefir in kefir grains. 3. Murofushi M, Mizuguchi J, Aibara K, Matuhasi T, et al. Immunopharmacology [1986] Aug;121:29-35. Immunopotentiative effect of polysaccharide from kefir grain, KGF-C, administered orally in mice. 4. Yakugaku Zasshi [1992] Jul;112:489-95. Pharmacological study on kefir-a fermented milk product in Caucasus. I. On antitumor activity (1). Kubo M, Odani T, Nakamura S, Tokumaru S, Matsuda H, et al. Faculty of Pharmaceutical Sciences, Kinki University, Osaka, Japan. 5. Shiomi M, Sasaki K, Murofushi M, Aibara K, et al. Jpn J Med Sci Biol [1982] Apr;35:75-80. Antitumor activity in mice of orally administered polysaccharide from Kefir grain. 6. Shiomi M, Aibara K, Murofushi M, et al. Jpn J Med Sci Biol [1983] Feb;36:49- 53. Effect of orally administered polysaccharide from kefir grain on delayed-type hypersensitivity and tumor growth in mice. 7. Schneedorf M., Anfiteatro D. [2004] Fitoterapicos Anti-inflamatorios by Carvalho, J.C.T. Quefir, um probiotico produzido por microorganismos encapsulados e inflamacao. Chapter 33 pp 443-462. / Diniz R . O, Garla L . K, Schneedorf M., Carvalho J.C.T. [Jan. 2003] Study of anti-inflammatory activity of Tibetan mushroom, a symbiotic culture of bacteria and fungi encapsulated into a polysaccharide matrix. Pharmacol Res; 47[1]:49-52 8. Maeda H, Zhu X, Omura K, Suzuki S, Kitamura S. [2004] Effects of an exopolysaccharide (kefiran) on lipids, blood pressure, blood glucose, and constipation. Biofactors. 2004;22(1- 4):197-200. |
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