Medical Forum / Diseases and Disorders / Sinusitis / October 2006
Neilmed...there's the right way...
|
|
Thread rating:  |
tdonline - 16 Oct 2006 21:01 GMT and the wrong way to using the bottle?
I have a sneaking suspicion it's not working for me. I use the Grossan at home and the Neilmed bottle when I travel. It never fails that when I get home, within a couple of times of using the Grossan, I'll have yellow-green-bloody globs come out and then I'm fine. It seems to me that I'm not properly irrigating while I'm traveling and there's a build-up which comes out after using the Grossan.
I follow the instructions for the Neilmed. The only thing I can think of is that I'm not squeezing with the right amount of force or cadence. Or perhaps my nose just ain't right for the bottle. I may have to switch to a neti pot for travel irrigation.
Susan - 16 Oct 2006 22:29 GMT > and the wrong way to using the bottle? > [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > Or perhaps my nose just ain't right for the bottle. I may have to > switch to a neti pot for travel irrigation. I found it impossible to get a steady or even or very useful flow from the NeilMed bottle. Only slightly better than using nothing at all.
I've heard better reports about neti pots.
Susan
Steven L. - 17 Oct 2006 02:49 GMT > and the wrong way to using the bottle? > [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > that I'm not properly irrigating while I'm traveling and there's a > build-up which comes out after using the Grossan. That's been my experience too, but that's what you should expect. Pulsatile irrigation does a better job because of the fluid dynamics involved and the extra stimulation to the cilia. I doubt that any non-pulsatile method will do as well as pulsatile irrigation.
 Signature Steven D. Litvintchouk Email: sdlitvin@earthlinkNOSPAM.net Remove the NOSPAM before replying to me.
judy.n - 17 Oct 2006 14:38 GMT Is there any evidence to support the claims that pulsatile irrigation stimulates cilia? Clearly irrigation can in vitro, but the claims for pulsatile irrigation seem to be anecdotal. My ENT is strongly against the Water Pik/hydropulse, and strongly for the neti pot. as he feels the low pressure, high volume flow with the lateral head position are superior. It's anectdotal--but he tries all the devices before he reaches his conclusions. The articles cited are usually the one by Kaiser that compared Neilmed (which they stock--it came from California), bulb syringe and water pik. No neti pot. I think we all agree that irrigation is crucial, I just want some evidence that one method is clearly superior. Maybe, it's individual and what works best for you. Judy
> > and the wrong way to using the bottle? > > [quoted text clipped - 14 lines] > Email: sdlitvin@earthlinkNOSPAM.net > Remove the NOSPAM before replying to me. Susan - 17 Oct 2006 15:01 GMT > That's been my experience too, but that's what you should expect. > Pulsatile irrigation does a better job because of the fluid dynamics > involved and the extra stimulation to the cilia. That's an intuitive belief, because there is absolutely no study supporting the assertion.
I doubt that any
> non-pulsatile method will do as well as pulsatile irrigation. You may be right, but we really have no way of knowing until methods are studied side by side and results compared.
Susan
judy.n - 17 Oct 2006 15:46 GMT Susan, I guess what has bothered me is the assertion that pulsatile irrigation stimulates cilia, where the other methods don't--as a scientifically proven fact. I've seen articles that any instillation of saline in the nose stimulates cilia. I just wish that the assertion for pulsatile irrigation as clearly superior wasn't stated as fact, but rather opinion. Many studies can't or won't be done: no funding, no clear end-points, inability to standardize the treatment. I have a feeling that no head to head trial is in the works. I think pulsatile probably removes more crusts, and may penetrate higher into the sinuses, but the inablility to easily sterilize the tubing is a concern. The Neilmed is so much more acceptable to the average patient: they won't accept the neti, won't pay for the hydropulse and will try a bottle on the shelf at Walgreens--in my experience in a general practice. It's kind of like asking people to exercise, I don't care what they do, just that they do something. So, if the Neilmed is easier for people to consider, then that's its benefit. Two variables with using the Neilmed with traveling: travel is a sinus trigger if it involves plane flights, so it's so hard to control every variable. Judy
> x-no-archive: yes > [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] > > Susan Susan - 17 Oct 2006 17:35 GMT > Susan, > I guess what has bothered me is the assertion that pulsatile [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > pulsatile irrigation as clearly superior wasn't stated as fact, but > rather opinion. I agree. It's been repeated here so many times, with the claim that 30 published studies proved it, that many folks may believe it's true without having checked the references cited for data.
I'm not unwilling to believe it's true, but I am unwilling to join in a product promotion at the expense of truth and accuracy.
> Many studies can't or won't be done: no funding, no > clear end-points, inability to standardize the treatment. I have a > feeling that no head to head trial is in the works. > I think pulsatile probably removes more crusts, and may penetrate > higher into the sinuses, but the inablility to easily sterilize the > tubing is a concern. The inability to sterilize or replace the tubing is a concern I've expressed here often, and suggested replaceability as an improvement for design.
> The Neilmed is so much more acceptable to the > average patient: they won't accept the neti, won't pay for the [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > sinus trigger if it involves plane flights, so it's so hard to control > every variable. Judy, I used the NeilMed daily for quite a while. It was no effing good, certainly not compared with pulsatile irrigation, and using it felt like drowning. I can't see how someone would prefer it to a neti pot, but I haven't used a neti. I travel with my irrigator, since my NeilMed bottle is about as helpful as doing nothing at all. In fact, prefilled bottles of squeeze spray from the drug store work better or at least as well.
Susan
tdonline - 17 Oct 2006 20:46 GMT I, too, worry about keeping the hydropulse clean. I do not have any studies to back up the cilia claim, I just know it works better for me than the neilmed bottle. Just thought I would get some tips on how to use the bottle better so I can get more benefits from it. And yes, my travel involves flying and lots of spaces with AC, airports, hotel rooms, conference rooms, etc.
My left nostril has always been the troublesome one and it tends to bleed when I'm thrust into a dry environment. I came back home from traveling and my apartment building had come on while I was away. The dry air is exercebating the usual travel problems. While irrigating last night, a giant blob of fresh blood poured out. I had noticed some pain, probably from dryness, in my left nostril for a few days.
tdonline - 17 Oct 2006 20:48 GMT "apartment building heat"
> I, too, worry about keeping the hydropulse clean. I do not have any > studies to back up the cilia claim, I just know it works better for me [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > last night, a giant blob of fresh blood poured out. I had noticed some > pain, probably from dryness, in my left nostril for a few days. Susan - 17 Oct 2006 22:16 GMT > "apartment building heat" I'd guessed. ;-)
Susan
judy.n - 18 Oct 2006 13:32 GMT Susan, As you know, I use the neti, and occasionally the Neilmed if I feel like something's "stuck". I had used a water pik for years with a self-made tip that now that I think about it was disgusting--while I used the water pik I never sterilized it or the solution--so it coincided with a time that I was really ill. A few years ago, a major surgery by a world renowned specialist, left me with a pseudomonas osteomyelitis, and he literally refused to see me back, because all of his patients had good outcomes. My personal ENT saw me for weekly debridement in the office, and finally did two subsequent surgeries. While I was really desperate, I bought a water pik and a grossan head, and my ENT strongly suggested that I not start it. It's clearly personal preference. I recently found that the Boston expert wrote a book on how to heal your sinuses, with the help of a writer. Yuck. I once emailed the Boston ENT, after he published an article on his successes, and told him he better have not used me as a success story. He actually emailed me back--way too late, and offered to see me in follow up (I'm sure after he called risk management at the malpractice insurer...). I declined. He told me "to quit obsessing about what came out of my nose--only it was dead bone. Hard to ignore. So, my personal rant aside. I just think everyone can benefit from irrigation, and I'd love to know if there really was a "best" way, but I think anectdotes and clinical experience will have to suffice. Judy
> x-no-archive: yes > [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > > Susan Susan - 17 Oct 2006 22:15 GMT > I, too, worry about keeping the hydropulse clean. I do not have any > studies to back up the cilia claim, I just know it works better for me [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > last night, a giant blob of fresh blood poured out. I had noticed some > pain, probably from dryness, in my left nostril for a few days. My house has very dry steam/radiator heat, too. I use a small humidifier in my bedroom. It has a filter that lasts about one winter season and is replaceable, and the water container can go into the dishwasher. I put fresh water in it daily and wash it weekly to avoid mold and bacterial allergens. Helps enormously with sinuses and overall comfort during heating season.
Susan
|
|
|