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Medical Forum / Diseases and Disorders / Sinusitis / November 2006A review of Irrigator tips: Dr. Grossnan v. the ENT
Sometime back I ordered Dr. Grossnan's nasal irrigator tip. It took awhile for the store in Florida (I live in Texas) to ship it to me, so I called up my ENT. He didn't have any, but his associate did. I bought one. It wasn't a Grossnan. Don't ask me who makes it. I don't know. The same day (or next, not sure) the Grossnan came. For health reasons, I knew I could only try one or the other. I tried the ENT. I think I made the right choice, for several reasons: The big difference is what these are made from. The shaft of the Grossnan is not nearly as thick, and, IIRC, all plastic. The ENT's shaft is solid, thick machine metal. I don't know if the Grossnan has incidents of breakage, but it would take more than Superman, Uri Geller and the Rapture to make the ENT move. Where the Grossnan may be better is the design of the tip. The ENT model is a bit larger than the Grossnan, (thicker plastic there) and I might have to give the nod to the Grossnan. I didn't try it out, so I don't know. Not that the largeness bothers me so much, but I'm 6'2". A proportionately smaller person (I guess my nostrils are average) might find the ENT one to be possibly uncomfortable and a bit harder to get used to. IOW, I wouldn't recommend the one I bought to Morgan Fairchild. The price between the two is about the same. I had to pay shipping, so that evened it out somewhat. So I give the nod to the ENT type. I don't know what kind of warranty is on the Grossnan (Murray, you want to advise?) but for it to surpass the one I bought and kept the Grossnan would have to have a lifetime warrantly on breakage, including return shipping. Like I said, the design of the Grossnan's tip may be superior (unless there's any incidents of leakage due to it being smaller) for comfort reasons, but it's not that annoying, just takes a bit getting used to. Happy irrigations, Rick > I don't know what kind of warranty > is on the Grossnan (Murray, you want to advise?) but for it to surpass > the one I bought and kept the Grossnan would have to have a lifetime > warrantly on breakage, including return shipping. The Grossan tips do eventually break. I have had to buy replacements a few times. If there is a warranty on them, it doesn't cover breakage. As for price, Waterpik makes one that is cheaper. The tip seems similar to the Grossan model. The shaft is made of glass (similar to regular Waterpik tips), and therefore can also break. A little web searching and I found your metal shaft irrigator tip: it's made by ethicare: here's the web site http://www.ethicare.com/ The three marketed options seem to be the Grossan tip, the water pik tip and the ethicare tip. Judy > > I don't know what kind of warranty > > is on the Grossnan (Murray, you want to advise?) but for it to surpass [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > the Grossan model. The shaft is made of glass (similar to regular Waterpik > tips), and therefore can also break. > A little web searching and I found your metal shaft irrigator tip: it's > made by ethicare: here's the web site > http://www.ethicare.com/ > The three marketed options seem to be the Grossan tip, the water pik > tip and the ethicare tip. Thanks, Judy. When my Grossan irrigator dies (and it will, it's not very durably built), I'll get a WaterPik and one of those attachments. Susan If Rick hadn't posted we would never have known about this alternative irrigator tip. Interestingly, their delivery device specifically avoids pulsatile delivery, and delivers an "infinitely variable" constant pressure. I was thinking about seeiing if I could find which surface has the least likelihood of biofilm development: metal(ethicare), plastic (Grossan) or glass (water pik). It just shows again that there's lot of different ways to irriagate and none have truly been proven superior. On the site, along with the standard irrigator head, they had these long tube heads to actually enter surgically widened sinuses. A little scary. Judy > x-no-archive: yes > [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > > Susan > If Rick hadn't posted we would never have known about this alternative > irrigator tip. Interestingly, their delivery device specifically avoids [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > long tube heads to actually enter surgically widened sinuses. A little > scary. <*shudder*> Am I reading the site correctly; do they also sell their own irrigation device, as well as waterpiks? They seem to have one, and it holds a larger quantity of solution. All of the packages they offer for irrigation seem to cost less than a pulsatile irrigator. Susan Susan, They do sell their own irrigator, it's not pulsatile, it looks kind of industrial--I checked to see how they wanted it cleaned and they said to run alcohol or antiseptic solution via the machine, periodically. They do have info sheets you can download and a number to call with questions. The machine sort of looked like an asthma nebulizer machine to me--it appears to supply a constant pressure which can be adjusted. And yes, the prices for the base unit were in the 50-60$ range with discounts on the irrigator tips. Judy > x-no-archive: yes > [quoted text clipped - 19 lines] > > Susan > Susan, > They do sell their own irrigator, it's not pulsatile, it looks kind [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > can be adjusted. And yes, the prices for the base unit were in the > 50-60$ range with discounts on the irrigator tips. That's where I'll buy my next irrigator, then. After asking about their warranty policies. Susan > All of the packages they offer for irrigation seem to cost less than a > pulsatile irrigator. > > Susan Let's be clear about what is meant by "pulsatile irrigator". That does not just refer to Dr. G's "Hydro-Pulse". In fact, he was using that term ("pulsatile irrigation") long before he came up with his own irrigator, referring to using his tip on a Waterpik. I believe that most electronic irrigators, including Waterpik and Interplak, pulse. Only this one from Ethicare claims not to do so. So, an Interplak irrigator for $30 plus a tip for $13 or so, would cost around $43 total, and it would be a "pulsatile irrigator". IMO, frankly, I doubt the pulsation makes much difference. It's mostly a matter of liquid washing away the impacted snot, an enema for the nose in other words. > If Rick hadn't posted we would never have known about this alternative > irrigator tip. Interestingly, their delivery device specifically avoids > pulsatile delivery, and delivers an "infinitely variable" constant > pressure. I think I mentioned them before, perhaps years ago. I never tried their device though, just saw it on the web. To avoid any confusion--we are not discussing any difference in "pulsatility" of the tips. Ethicare sells an electrical irrigation device that is supposed to be non-pulsatile. (AFAIK all other electrical irrigation devices--Waterpik, Interplak irrigator, Hydropulse, are all supposed to be "pulsatile") The type of tip put on the end does not affect the "pulsatility", however. Of course, non-electric irrigation devices such as Neti pots, syringes, squeeze bottles, etc., etc., are not "pulsatile". > It just shows again that there's lot of different ways to irriagate > and none have truly been proven superior. Agreed. I haven't seen any study comparing different irrigation methods.Such a study would be interesting, although difficult to do accurately, as the different groups being studied would all have to have the exact same symptoms, in order to compare their results accurately. On the site, along with the standard irrigator head, they had these > long tube heads to actually enter surgically widened sinuses. A little > scary. Actually, I recall I once did purchase those different types of Ethicare tips (although not their machine) and tried them. I couldn't figure out how to correctly use those long tube head types, and they didn't get much use, and were eventually lost. >A little web searching and I found your metal shaft irrigator tip: it's >made by xxxxxxxxx: here's the web site Judy, I found the tip I bought from the ENT, and it's not at the website you said, so to prevent confusion, I just deleted it above. Here's the page: http://www.anthonyproducts.com/site/product.cfm?id=9E9ED0C5-9908-AD47-B44E12FC08 395866 It's much better than the one you and Susan thought it was. And the price, $10.95, is considerably less than what I paid for it. The shaft is stainless steel. The tip is made of delrin. What's delrin? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Delrin Trust me: this is one bad mutha of an irrigator tip, y'all. ;-) Rick Rick, Thanks. Who knew there were other tips out there. I like the fact that it's safe to boil--so many other products aren't even dishwasher safe. Beats me what "delrin" is. Do they sell to anyone? Judy > >A little web searching and I found your metal shaft irrigator tip: it's > >made by xxxxxxxxx: here's the web site [quoted text clipped - 16 lines] > > Rick Rick, I just checked their FAQ site: and their minimum order is $50. Some sites only sell to licensed health care professionals, and they require registration, but I'm not sure if anyone can order. Still, it's good to know it's out there. Judy > Rick, > Thanks. Who knew there were other tips out there. I like the fact [quoted text clipped - 24 lines] > > > > Rick Judy, I'd say it'd be well worth it to get your ENT to get one for you. Mine didn't come from my ENT, but another one at the clinic that my doc's nurse knew. If there's a dollar limit, you might find folks reading these posts that might be interested in going in together. It's well worth it. And that site isn't the manufacturer's site - just the first one I came upon that had the correct image of the one I bought. As I recall, mine came in a tiny sealed zip bag, similar to what coin dealers use, and it had a small blurb in it. But the name of the company escapes me. Some marketing company. So now you know what it looks like, you might find it elsewhere that sells to the public. Oh, and your previous post about delrin, which is the material that the tip is made of. My wikipedia link went to it, and tells you all about it. Important to note that it is made to have the strength of steel. It's not going to break anytime soon - if ever. I wonder what the Grossnan's is like - I only had it out of the box for a minute until I put it right back and shipped it back to where it came from. Like I said - no comparison. But to be fair to Murray, who has posted I'm sure long before I ever discovered this group: are there any benefits that yours has over the one I own and have described the last couple of days? How would you say yours measures up? Rick >Rick, > I just checked their FAQ site: and their minimum order is $50. Some [quoted text clipped - 30 lines] >> > >> > Rick Rick I have to confess to being a neti pot user. Years ago I used a water pik, and this is really scary--I did what my allergist told me to do--I cut the top off and wrapped some sort of tape around it to make a larger surface to occlude the nose. During the years I used the water pik I was really sick: no wonder, I was probably innoculating myself again and again. My ENT likes the neti pot, and a few years ago while fighting a post-op infection, I order a new water pik and grossan head, and my ENT specifically counseled me not to use it. So, I've never used any formal tip. Just a neti pot and the occasional neilmed bottle. Judy > Judy, > [quoted text clipped - 60 lines] > >> > > >> > Rick > My ENT likes the neti pot, and a few years ago while fighting a >post-op infection, I order a new water pik and grossan head, and my ENT >specifically counseled me not to use it. So, I've never used any formal >tip. > Just a neti pot and the occasional neilmed bottle. >Judy Judy, Glad you're happy with the neti pot. I've never seen one, only an image online. I admit I don't irrigate everyday, only when I'm starting to feel congested and/or ill. Rick > Oh, and your previous post about delrin, which is the material that > the tip is made of. My wikipedia link went to it, and tells you all > about it. Important to note that it is made to have the strength of > steel. It's not going to break anytime soon - if ever. I wonder what > the Grossnan's is like - I only had it out of the box for a minute > until I put it right back and shipped it back to where it came from. Yes, that looks like the tip I bought from an ENT years ago. I think it cost me $13 or so, which also makes sense, if the ENT bought it for $10.95, to add a little profit to it. Of course the actual tip that goes into your nose is not prone to breakage. What breaks is the shaft, including the connecting part of it that goes into the Waterpik handle. In that respect, metal is definitely superior to the cheap plastic and glass used in the Grossan and Waterpik sinus tips. As far as the actual tip is concerned, I am not familiar with Delrin, but if it is the same as the tip I purchased from an ENT years ago, that white tip is made from a hard material. Is that the case with yours? In that case, I prefer the softer blue tips of the Grossan and Waterpik attachments, to the hard material in this tip. In occluding the nose, the soft tip shapes itself somewhat to the nostril, while the hard tip remains fixed in its own shape. Also, I find the soft tip more comfortable, in pressing against the nose, than the hard one. So--perhaps ideal would be a metal shaft, with a soft tip, and a reasonable price. Perhaps someone should suggest to the company who sells the referred-to attachment, that they change the tip material to the soft material used in other nasal irrigator tips (silicon?), instead of the hard plastic? >Of course the actual tip that goes into your nose is not prone to breakage. >What breaks is the shaft, including the connecting part of it that goes into [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] >it is the same as the tip I purchased from an ENT years ago, that white tip >is made from a hard material. Is that the case with yours? Yes. It is a substitute for metal and marketed as such. I would guess the Grossnan and the Water Pik would break and/or wear out over time. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Delrin In that case, I >prefer the softer blue tips of the Grossan and Waterpik attachments, to the >hard material in this tip. In occluding the nose, the soft tip shapes itself >somewhat to the nostril, while the hard tip remains fixed in its own shape. >Also, I find the soft tip more comfortable, in pressing against the nose, >than the hard one. Like I'd said before, the one drawback of the delrin is that it's larger and also harder than the Grossnan. As I returned the Grossnan before using it, I obviously have no way to compare the comfort. I would think, like you, that the Grossnan is more comfortable. So I'd give it a point for that, and take away a point because it's not as sturdily made. It's a wash (pun intended) as far as price, unless I bought the one I got at the website I found cheaper than going through my ENT. >So--perhaps ideal would be a metal shaft, with a soft tip, and a reasonable >price. Perhaps someone should suggest to the company who sells the >referred-to attachment, that they change the tip material to the soft >material used in other nasal irrigator tips (silicon?), instead of the hard >plastic? Maybe the soft tip deteriorates quicker? And if you're putting something up your nose, do you want that to look forward to? That was my reasoning for keeping mine. IIRC, my tip can take quite a bit of heat, so ensuring it's sterilized I'm sure isn't a problem. Somebody said that it could go in an autoclave. I don't know for sure, and I'm too lazy to look it up on a late Saturday night, but isn't that a device used to sterilize medical equipment? Rick > Maybe the soft tip deteriorates quicker? And if you're putting > something up your nose, do you want that to look forward to? That was > my reasoning for keeping mine. IIRC, my tip can take quite a bit of > heat, so ensuring it's sterilized I'm sure isn't a problem. > Rick Nope, the soft tips don't deteriorate. Well, maybe one would in hundreds of years, but not in one's lifetime. You are right about the shaft though, that the metal one you have is much more sturdy than the plastic or glass shafts. I have had several break from those materials--not likely to happen with a metal shaft. But, I've never had the soft tip break, deteriorate, or be damaged in any way at all. So once again, although I concur with you about the metal shaft being better, I much prefer the soft blue tip over the hard white one. So once again, I think the best solution would be a metal shaft with a soft tip. >But, I've never had the soft tip break, deteriorate, or be damaged in any >way at all. So once again, although I concur with you about the metal shaft >being better, I much prefer the soft blue tip over the hard white one. So >once again, I think the best solution would be a metal shaft with a soft >tip. Different tips for different drips! ;-) I once was sold an irrigator tip by an ENT that had a metal shaft, and I don't think it was an Ethicare one. I think there might be types only available to ENTs, not sold to the general public. >A little web searching and I found your metal shaft irrigator tip: it's > made by ethicare: here's the web site [quoted text clipped - 16 lines] >> Waterpik >> tips), and therefore can also break. > The three marketed options seem to be the Grossan tip, the water pik > tip and the ethicare tip. > Judy I think the German company that makes the funny-looking plastic irrigation bottle also makes such a tip, or at least used to. (I can't recall their name at the moment.) > I think the German company that makes the funny-looking plastic irrigation > bottle also makes such a tip, or at least used to. (I can't recall their > name at the moment.) I found it. It's the company that makes the ENT-SOL bottle, packets, and pre-mixed solution. http://www.entsolwash.com/products/products.htm (scroll down to middle of page to see Waterpik adaptor) I don't see a price listed on that page, but if I recall correctly, on looking at it a couple years ago, the price on this was much higher than any other such tip (including Grossan). I find all the ENT-SOL products to be over-priced. In any case, there are several companies that produce nasal tips for electric irrigation devices. |
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