Medical Forum / Diseases and Disorders / Sinusitis / July 2006
Newbie: Cleaning in-house air? How??
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BigBen - 05 Jul 2006 01:41 GMT Hi All,
I do suffer from sinusitis, more recently from alergic rhinitis, and can understand the idea of cleaning in-house air: isn't thair air oustide more polluted?
What is there in the in-house air that makes it so bad?
It turns out, that I've worked from home for about 15 years, and recently my wife had to stop working "away from home", and she claims she now has a lot more sinus problems than before... This is what made me seriously curious about in-jouse air quality.
So, what anyone who's been there, done that, can teach this newbie? Please?
PS - I live near a faily busy road, and the idea of opening the windows of the house that tyurn to that road, makes me wonder if I'm improving, or deteriorating even further the air in my house.
TIA, jbr
Don Brady - 05 Jul 2006 03:08 GMT >Hi All, > [quoted text clipped - 15 lines] >windows of the house that tyurn to that road, makes me wonder if I'm >improving, or deteriorating even further the air in my house. In some cases indoor air is better, in some cases outdooe air.
It depends where you live, what you are allergic to, the season, etc.
BigBen - 05 Jul 2006 19:06 GMT >It depends where you live, what you are allergic to, the season, etc. Well, I think I'm alergic to... air, all year long.
jbr
Don Brady - 05 Jul 2006 23:26 GMT >>It depends where you live, what you are allergic to, the season, etc. > >Well, I think I'm alergic to... air, all year long. It has to be specific allergens or else irritants or pollution in the air.
BigBen - 06 Jul 2006 19:00 GMT >It has to be specific allergens or else irritants or pollution in the air. I know ... but it seems it's always present!
jbr
Steven L. - 05 Jul 2006 03:42 GMT > Hi All, > [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > she now has a lot more sinus problems than before... This is what made > me seriously curious about in-jouse air quality. Before I get to indoor air quality, it's also possible that the outdoor air around your home is more polluted than the outdoor air where she used to work. The website www.scorecard.org gives the air pollution levels in your neighborhood, right from the EPA monitoring stations. Just enter your Zip code where it asks you to.
> So, what anyone who's been there, done that, can teach this newbie? > Please? The EPA has said that indoor air can be up to 100 times more polluted than outdoor air. Common culprits for people who work at home include:
Wall-to-wall carpeting. Traps dust and pollen. Keeping the carpet absolutely clean is nearly impossible. Get rid of it; get tiles, linoleum, parquet wood floors, washable throw rugs, etc.
Personal computers, especially desktops. The static electric charge that builds up, attracts dust and pollen like a magnet, and then when we use the computer we stick our faces right next to it and breathe all that in. Laser printers outgas fumes from the toner. Always use your printer in a well-ventilated area.
Various household chemicals. Carpet adhesive, paint, and formaldehyde resins outgassing from particleboard and plywood.
Hidden mold. Mold can be growing inside your refrigerator, underneath your carpet, etc. There's a book, "My House Is Killing Me!" written by a home inspector, that discusses how to find such things and correct them.
Pests. Some people are allergic to cockroaches or other pests.
> PS - I live near a faily busy road, and the idea of opening the > windows of the house that tyurn to that road, makes me wonder if I'm > improving, or deteriorating even further the air in my house. Pollution from passing vehicles can travel some 30 feet away from the road before dissipating.
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Susan - 05 Jul 2006 03:50 GMT > Hidden mold. Mold can be growing inside your refrigerator, underneath > your carpet, etc. There's a book, "My House Is Killing Me!" written by > a home inspector, that discusses how to find such things and correct them. Sometimes it's hiding in plain site, invisibly. Two days ago I woke to yet another sinus induced migraine complete with vomiting due to the mold that grows invisibly in my master bathroom. Even though I spray the entire shower area with an alchohol/vinegar solution daily, if I don't scrub the walls, floor and ceiling with bleach solution at least weekly, I get sinus congestion, PND and, ultimately, migraine and puking. The mold isn't visible, no creeping mildewy stuff nor any smell, other than vinegar. Still, where there's moisture, there's mold, and my bathroom is growing one that I'm horribly reactive to.
Susan
BigBen - 05 Jul 2006 19:20 GMT >mold that grows invisibly in my master bathroom. Even though I spray That I think I do have in my shwer area...
>don't scrub the walls, floor and ceiling with bleach solution at least Bleach?? If my wife is using that, in the 3rd floor where we live, can smell it as soon as I enter the building, on the ground floor. If I go home then, I'm garanteed to have a migraine for the rest of day.
Thanks for the hint!
jbr
Susan - 05 Jul 2006 20:03 GMT > Bleach?? If my wife is using that, in the 3rd floor where we live, > can smell it as soon as I enter the building, on the ground floor. If [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > > jbr You could try a strong white vinegar solution instead.
Susan
BigBen - 06 Jul 2006 19:01 GMT >You could try a strong white vinegar solution instead. OK, I can deal well with vinegar.
Thanks!
jbr
Susan - 06 Jul 2006 21:55 GMT >>You could try a strong white vinegar solution instead. > [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > > jbr My house cleaner told me today that she used vinegar with baking soda on someone's extremely moldy shower and it was extremely effective.
HTH,
Susan
Steven L. - 05 Jul 2006 19:20 GMT > Sometimes it's hiding in plain site, invisibly. Two days ago I woke to > yet another sinus induced migraine complete with vomiting due to the [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > weekly, I get sinus congestion, PND and, ultimately, migraine and > puking. How can you use bleach solution on your walls and ceiling without damaging the paint finish???
And that raises another hidden source of mold: Air conditioner units and climate control duct work. Condensation causes mold to grow in those, and a thorough cleaning yearly is suggested.
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Susan - 05 Jul 2006 20:05 GMT > How can you use bleach solution on your walls and ceiling without > damaging the paint finish??? The walls and ceiling in the shower area are tile. The rest is glossy latex paint, and no damage has occurred so far.
> And that raises another hidden source of mold: Air conditioner units > and climate control duct work. Condensation causes mold to grow in > those, and a thorough cleaning yearly is suggested. At least yearly! And Filtrete filters in every outlet.
Susan
judy.n - 05 Jul 2006 21:10 GMT Susan, I feel like I am running a constant battle against mold. We live near the water, in a humid area, have a lot of trees on the lot, and in this high humidity, I have to use bleach. Everyone in the house is migraine prone, but also sinus prone as well. I run HEPA filters, have gotten rid of almost all the carpets, have to clean out the closets, bought a mold-zapper (a small heater meant for marine use), used anti-mildew additive when we repainted, buy "environmentally safe" cleaners, avoid fragrences, use fans--and I still am the queen of bleach. I agree the fumes are horrible, but so is the mold. Ironically, the basement, with 2 dehumidifiers, is down to 45% humidity: the upstairs, where we haven't used the window AC much, runs around 70-80% humidity in the last few weeks. It's a constant battle. Judy
> x-no-archive: yes > [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] > > Susan Susan - 05 Jul 2006 22:04 GMT > Susan, > I feel like I am running a constant battle against mold. We live near [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > around 70-80% humidity in the last few weeks. > It's a constant battle. Judy, we must be neighbors. :-) On top of sharing all the above, we moved into this house built into a hill that drains toward the house, keeping the sill plate wet and the (unfinished) basement walls damp. In heavy rains, I see water on my basement floor. Fortunately, there's a drain in the floor and I have a fabulous new dehumidifier with a hose continuously draining into the hole in the floor; it's a Soleus. I read reviews, and it really is all that much better than any other I've ever used. I run a large HEPA air cleaner in my bedroom, and my cleaning woman knows to do guerilla warfare with dust and mold, too, behind hanging pictures, mirrors, tops of moldings, etc... Cleaning closets is key to dust control, too, I've found.
I am Bleach royalty, myself. ;-)
Our garage is built into the hill, it's earth on 3 sides, and so damp as to be useless for storage; there's a big black slimy mold slick on the floor of it. My allergy shots have helped a LOT with that mold and whatever may be in the basement, but not with the invisible stuff in my bathroom. I wonder if I can grow some in a dish and have my allergist test me for whatever it is and add it to my shots?
I live on Long Island; water everywhere. I live on the north shore, wooded. My property has no lawn, it's hilly, covered with ivy and, you guess it, lots of moldy leaf litter underneath it.
But my bathroom, no matter how clean, does me in every time.
Susan
Steven L. - 06 Jul 2006 01:40 GMT > x-no-archive: yes > [quoted text clipped - 33 lines] > bathroom. I wonder if I can grow some in a dish and have my allergist > test me for whatever it is and add it to my shots? No, but you can hire a professional certified industrial hygienist who can take samples and culture them for you: both mold and bacteria. This may cost you around $500 - $1000.
http://www.abih.org/
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Susan - 06 Jul 2006 15:57 GMT > No, but you can hire a professional certified industrial hygienist who > can take samples and culture them for you: both mold and bacteria. This > may cost you around $500 - $1000. > > http://www.abih.org/ But why couldn't I take a sterile swab and grow my own mold on an agar plate or other medium?
Susan
Steven L. - 07 Jul 2006 03:26 GMT > x-no-archive: yes > [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > But why couldn't I take a sterile swab and grow my own mold on an agar > plate or other medium? No one is stopping you or one of your kids from doing your very own Science Fair project. But it's not going to give you professional results. An industrial hygienist can take samples of standard sizes so as to compare the mold spore counts. He or she can take steps to avoid contamination to be sure of an accurate reading. And they can grow the culture on a variety of media that are tailored for molds.
Sure, if you want to research all that yourself, go right ahead.
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hhggffdd - 07 Jul 2006 04:06 GMT >> x-no-archive: yes >> [quoted text clipped - 15 lines] > > Sure, if you want to research all that yourself, go right ahead. I bought a kit similar to this...
http://www.homemoldtestkits.com/google.html
...at the local hardware store for under $10. They will type the molds. I can't speak for the reliability of that company at that link however.
judy.n - 06 Jul 2006 15:30 GMT Susan, I live in RI, but it sounds so familiar. My daughter had a horrible flare of sinusitis and asthma this last year when she moved into a new dorm room near Boston: the mattress was ancient, there was ivy on the walls, and her exposed brick wall (very 70's architecture) was adjacent to the moldy bathroom. She's had mild asthma since childhood, and in 48 hours ended up in the ER. The allergist had us replace the mattress with a new, plastic encased one--I'd put dust mite encasings on, but they're useless against such a moldly mattress. She started on shots again, and discoved an IgA deficiency--but had intractable sinusitis all year. She saw Peter Catalano at Lahey, and he recommended surgery, but she wants to wait, as she moved into an apartment with no carpets, and started low dose biaxin (from her local ENT.) So, now, I'm wondering about our mattresses....they've always had dust mite encasings, but, that mold is crafty and ubiquitious. I got home last night and discovered mold on the outside of the fridge--it's a neverending battle. Judy
> x-no-archive: yes > [quoted text clipped - 41 lines] > > Susan Susan - 06 Jul 2006 15:54 GMT > Susan, I live in RI, but it sounds so familiar. My daughter had a > horrible flare of sinusitis and asthma this last year when she moved [quoted text clipped - 13 lines] > I got home last night and discovered mold on the outside of the > fridge--it's a neverending battle. Dorm rooms are like living in Petri dishes, aren't they??!
Judy, there's a warming device inside of your fridge that may be broken; it's specifically there to warm the exterior just enough to keep it dry. You might want to consider a service call?
As to mattresses, I sleep on a 100% natural latex mattress made by the Talalay process. It's the most comfortable bed in the world, bar none, and it's inhospitable to mold and dust mites. I have a vinyl encasing on the solid foundation (you don't want springs under latex) and a microfiber one on the mattress and latex pillows. I take my latex pillow with me every where I travel, can't sleep without it. Hotel beds are a problem for me due to dust mites.
I'm still wondering if the doxy I take has a similar anti-inflammatory effect to low dose macrolides, which really don't agree with me, nor treat my TBDs.
Susan
judy.n - 06 Jul 2006 21:21 GMT Susan, Thanks for all the good advice. To my knowledge,the doxycycline hasn't been studied as much as the 14, 15 member ring macrolides, but there is precedent in the dental world. They use 20 mg of doxycycline for gum disease at a twice daily dosage and the mechanism isn't antimicrobial, but it prevents plaque adhesion without disturbing the good flora. I read one article about using that dosage for acne, and it worked, and the theory was again anti-inflammatory. I should run a pubmed search. I think you take it at a higher dosage, but that shouldn't decrease the anti-inflammatory properties, just possibly change the flora more. We actually need a new mattress. And I would love a comfortable one, that didn't grow mold or dust mites. I think I saw a recent advertisement for your dehumidifier, and it looked powerful. Judy
> x-no-archive: yes > [quoted text clipped - 35 lines] > > Susan Susan - 06 Jul 2006 21:58 GMT > Susan, > Thanks for all the good advice. [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > a higher dosage, but that shouldn't decrease the anti-inflammatory > properties, just possibly change the flora more. It sure doesn't treat the infection in my sinuses, but may help a bit. Honestly, it seems that the presence or absence of bathroom mold is the whole ballgame for me right now; I have got to identify what it is.
> We actually need a new mattress. And I would love a comfortable one, > that didn't grow mold or dust mites. I think SpringAir makes a latex mattress, though not one I would buy. Still, Sleepy's carries it, so you might get to try one out. I bought mine online, medium density 100% natural Talalay latex (some are mixed with synthetic foam).
> I think I saw a recent advertisement for your dehumidifier, and it > looked powerful. > Judy It is incredibly powerful, yet silent and very efficient. I bought the littler one, and it's doing an incredible job downstairs.
Susan
Steven L. - 06 Jul 2006 01:59 GMT > Susan, > I feel like I am running a constant battle against mold. We live near [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > around 70-80% humidity in the last few weeks. > It's a constant battle. If you haven't heard about this before, you might get a laugh or two out of it:
Space Fungus Gets Scientists' Attention Fungus Is Everywhere
You might not expect to find mold and mildew in a brand new space station. But that's just what scientists are worried about. What problems can common fungus cause for the next generation of astronauts?
It was a discovery that matched the exotic with the commonplace, the extraterrestrial with the earthly. An astronaut peering out of Russia's Mir space station 12 years ago found the view blocked by a layer of fungus growing on the inside of the window.
The fungus had arrived from Earth, probably attached to the human travelers occupying Mir. As it multiplied rapidly and even began "eating" the equipment on the space station, scientists started thinking seriously about dangers they had not anticipated. Fungus is a part of everyday life on Earth, but who would have thought that it could affect the advanced machinery hurtling through such an inhospitable environment as outer space?
http://www.riverdeep.net/current/2000/10/101900_spacemold.jhtml
"Major spring clean on International Space Station Apr 15, 2006, 14:34 GMT Moscow - The astronauts and cosmonauts living on the International Space Station (ISS) announced Saturday that they would be carrying out a major spring clean on the station. "Russian Commander Pavel Vinogradov and US Station Engineer Jeffrey Williams planned to clean dust and mould from a 100-square-metre surface area of the station on Saturday, Russia's Itar-Tass news agency quoted mission control spokesman Valeri Lyndin as saying in Moscow."
http://science.monstersandcritics.com/news/article_1155598.php
So don't feel bad about where you're living. The astronauts can't get away from mold and mildew even in outer space. :-)
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Alison Chaiken - 05 Jul 2006 04:49 GMT > Laser printers outgas fumes from the toner. Actually the problem is ozone from the high voltage, same as in an ionic "air cleaner."
> Always use your printer in a well-ventilated area. That part we all agree with.
 Signature Alison Chaiken "From:" address above is valid. (650) 236-2231 [daytime] http://www.wsrcc.com/alison/ We can all look back with nostalgia to the days when the only torture going on in Cuba was perpetrated by Cubans.
BigBen - 05 Jul 2006 19:24 GMT >> Always use your printer in a well-ventilated area. > >That part we all agree with. I assume that's limited to laser printers, right? I do remember the smell of the laser printer I used to have, but I never noticed any particular smell from both the ink jets I've had.
Please tell me I don't need to find a way to move my inkjet - it's just 2 feet away from where I'm sitting :-P
jbr
PS - Can window curtains be a problem too, just like carpets??
Alison Chaiken - 06 Jul 2006 05:25 GMT > I assume that's limited to laser printers, right? I do remember the > smell of the laser printer I used to have, but I never noticed any > particular smell from both the ink jets I've had. Inkjets should be okay: unlike laserjets and ionic air cleaners, they do not generate ozone.
Disclaimer: I do work for HP but we sell both.
> Can window curtains be a problem too, just like carpets?? Dust is dumb and doesn't know the difference.
 Signature Alison Chaiken "From:" address above is valid. (650) 236-2231 [daytime] http://www.wsrcc.com/alison/ We can all look back with nostalgia to the days when the only torture going on in Cuba was perpetrated by Cubans.
Steven L. - 07 Jul 2006 22:57 GMT >>> Always use your printer in a well-ventilated area. >> That part we all agree with. [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > Please tell me I don't need to find a way to move my inkjet - it's > just 2 feet away from where I'm sitting :-P AFAIK, inkjets are safe because the ink is sprayed directly onto the paper, and ozone emissions are nil.
> PS - Can window curtains be a problem too, just like carpets?? Any woven surface can be a problem. That means cloth curtains, carpets, etc. But unlike carpets, window curtains can and should be laundered regularly.
If you want to avoid regular laundering, get plastic window shades or venetian blinds.
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Susan - 08 Jul 2006 04:34 GMT >>>> Always use your printer in a well-ventilated area. >>> [quoted text clipped - 18 lines] > If you want to avoid regular laundering, get plastic window shades or > venetian blinds. Laundering is much easier to do than keeping horizontal blinds free of dust. I mean, MUCH, easier.
Susan
BigBen - 05 Jul 2006 19:15 GMT >Just enter your Zip code where it asks you to. Steven, I live in Portugal ...
>Wall-to-wall carpeting. Traps dust and pollen. Keeping the carpet >absolutely clean is nearly impossible. Get rid of it; get tiles, >linoleum, parquet wood floors, washable throw rugs, etc. Done! Only one room in the house still has carpet, and I spend very little time there
>Personal computers, especially desktops. The static electric charge >that builds up, attracts dust and pollen like a magnet, and then when we >use the computer we stick our faces right next to it and breathe all >that in. Laser printers outgas fumes from the toner. Always use your >printer in a well-ventilated area. Oh dear! I'm a translator. Spend all day long in front of 2 LCD monitors. Laser printer has gone - now using inkjet, but just might have to get one... or maybe not, if I can save on the sinus pills what I'll spend in ink cartridges ;-)
>Various household chemicals. Carpet adhesive, paint, and formaldehyde >resins outgassing from particleboard and plywood. Come one, my house was painted was water washable paint. What else can I do about my walls?
>Hidden mold. Mold can be growing inside your refrigerator, underneath >your carpet, etc. There's a book, "My House Is Killing Me!" written by >a home inspector, that discusses how to find such things and correct them. Never thought about it... Will investigate, thanks!
>Pests. Some people are allergic to cockroaches or other pests. No, thank God, no such animals around here!
>Pollution from passing vehicles can travel some 30 feet away from the >road before dissipating. Well, considering 30 feet is about 9 meters ... I guess my house is about 18 meters away from the road, I live in the 4th floor, but it's juts about always windy around here. What gives??
Thanks! jbr
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