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Medical Forum / Diseases and Disorders / Sinusitis / March 2006I hope this post helps someone
Hi, I have had sinus problems for about 9 years and had endoscopic surgery to open them up about 5 years ago. my sinuses where about 50% better but within 18 months, they started to get blocked again even though I was trying to keep them clean. The last 3 years have been awful. Until a week ago, I was waking up choking because I had thick clear jelly like stuff trapped at the back of my throat. The thing is, I think I have cured them myself very simply. My sinuses opened up and for the first time in years and I can breathe out of both nostrils. I had tried all of the remedies, even pushing Garlic up my nose in desperation to get rid of congestion. :-) My cure isn't new as I got the idea from Google. Usually nothing I try ever works so I am very excited about this and hope some of you will give it a go. I reckon you must try this especially if you are thinking of surgery. I cut out wheat as much as possible. No bread or pasta, cakes or biscuits. Potatoes and rice are fine. A good side effect is that I lost about 11lb in 2 weeks. I feel great and my stomache which was getting bigger and bigger has shrunk. I also don't have indigestion anymore. I'll eat anything rather than bread or pasta. 3 nights ago, 8 days after I last ate bread I started to get unblocking sounds from my nose. Little pops and hisses. That has happened the last 3 nights and I can't believe that something so easy to do seems to have cured me (touch wood) I woke my girlfriend to tell her my sinuses seem to be unblocking at 3 am :-) I think within 14 days a lot of sinus sufferers could find a lot of relief, it's like a miracle to me. If it works for anyone, could you post on this group so I can see. All the best Tony Parker. > Hi, > [quoted text clipped - 36 lines] > All the best > Tony Parker. I haven't tried it but it sounds like the diet change is what caused your improvement. Maybe it will only help a small percentage of people who have your particular bacteria/virus, but it's worth a try. I am curious as to what the exact cause of the improvement was. A reduction in carbohydrates? Some co-occuring factor that is only present in wheat based foods? Another thing that I am not thinking of? Until some systematic research is done on this topic we will not know for sure. > I haven't tried it but it sounds like the diet change is what caused your > improvement. Maybe it will only help a small percentage of people who have [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > thing that I am not thinking of? Until some systematic research is done on > this topic we will not know for sure. The high sugar and insulin levels triggered by a high starch diet are associated with higher inflammation. If the OP was wheat allergic or sensitive, it could also contribute to congestion. Most folks with GERD, IBS, indigestion report that it's gone or improved as soon as they stop eating high starch diet, anecdotally. Susan >The high sugar and insulin levels triggered by a high starch diet are >associated with higher inflammation. Yes but that would only be in a really high-carbohydrate diet. How much wheat do you suppose he was eating? I will bet it was minor. >If the OP was wheat allergic or >sensitive, it could also contribute to congestion. That is more likely in my opinion. Gluten intolerance..... >Most folks with GERD, IBS, indigestion report that it's gone or improved >as soon as they stop eating high starch diet, anecdotally. > Yes but that would only be in a really high-carbohydrate diet. How much wheat > do you suppose he was eating? I will bet it was minor. It's not true only on a high carb diet; it's also true of insulin resistant folks on a moderate carb diet. Insulin sensitivity falls off throughout life, especially after 30, precipitously after 40. >>If the OP was wheat allergic or >>sensitive, it could also contribute to congestion. > > That is more likely in my opinion. Gluten intolerance..... I don't see that we have enough information to form an opinion in one direction or the other. Susan >It's not true only on a high carb diet; it's also true of insulin >resistant folks on a moderate carb diet. Insulin sensitivity falls off >throughout life, especially after 30, precipitously after 40. It seems to me that a couple of slices of bread (or some cereal) is not likely to make that much diffence to overall carbohydrate intake. To the extent it does, it is probably because of the high-fructose corn syrup that they tend to put into everything, and I would agree to try to stay away from that (as a amtter of fact, it may be the real culprit in the increase in diabetes). I do agree that 98% of bread and cereals are not really good foods, because you are basically eating high-fructose corn syrup with a litle wheat. I think that excess caloroic intake is probably the greatest singla factor in metabolic syndromes. Is it overall carbohydrate intake that is the problem or is it unrefined concentrated carbohydrates not balanced by adequate mono or poly-unstaturated fat and protein? If it is overall carbohydrate intake, what percentage of calories would you recommend should come from carbohydrates? If you just tell peopl to cut carohydrates, aren't a lot of them going to gorge on saturated fats instead and excess protein,a s wella s cut out fruits and vegetables? I would agree that a diet with a good percentage of poly and mono-unsaturated fats is the best all-round answer, and am on such a diet myself to great results on all measures (including cholesterol, triglycerides, and blood sugar, although the latter two were always ok fo me anyway) . Mostly nuts with some salmon and fresh fruits and vegetables. However, most peoplel will not even consider such a diet so sometimes > It seems to me that a couple of slices of bread (or some cereal) is not likely > to make that much diffence to overall carbohydrate intake. It can have a HUGE impact, depending on the bread. To the extent it > does, it is probably because of the high-fructose corn syrup that they tend to > put into everything, and I would agree to try to stay away from that (as a > amtter of fact, it may be the real culprit in the increase in diabetes). I do > agree that 98% of bread and cereals are not really good foods, because you are > basically eating high-fructose corn syrup with a litle wheat. Wheat is as high glycemic as table sugar; even whole wheat is not much lower. I don't know where you shop, but there is nothing coming into my house with any fructose added, ever. > I think that excess caloroic intake is probably the greatest singla factor in > metabolic syndromes. That puts you at odds with all the good science. > Is it overall carbohydrate intake that is the problem or is it unrefined > concentrated carbohydrates not balanced by adequate mono or poly-unstaturated > fat and protein? It's overall carbohydrate intake. Insulinogenic nutrition promotes inflammation, CVD, DM, GERD... > If it is overall carbohydrate intake, what percentage of calories would you > recommend should come from carbohydrates? For whom? There's no such thing as the right diet plan to fit everyone's needs. What I would recommend is getting one's nutritional needs met by leafy, colorful things, and not oxidizing, nutritionally inferior and high glycemic starches. > If you just tell peopl to cut carohydrates, aren't a lot of them going to gorge > on saturated fats instead and excess protein,a s wella s cut out fruits and > vegetables? No, people who cut starches are typically eating plenty of protein already. I eat boatloads of veggies and salads to *replace* the starch other folks fill up on, with healthy fats from fish, avocadoes, nuts, and can also have as much sat fat as I feel like. I lowered my cholesterol 100 points on this plan, while simultaneously doubling my HDL. While I moderate saturated fat, I have not, in years of trying, found a single study in which it was established as a health risk. Any study that controlled for carbs found that even a high sat fat diet reduced CVD risk markers, including in DM patients. I eat ten times more veggies now that starch is off my plate. Susan > It's overall carbohydrate intake. Insulinogenic nutrition promotes > inflammation, CVD, DM, GERD... To illustrate: Kopp W. High-insulinogenic nutrition--an etiologic factor for obesity and the metabolic syndrome? Metabolism. 2003 Jul;52(7):840-4. Review. PMID: 12870158 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE] <http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=PubMed&list_uids=1 2870158&dopt=Abstract> the author writes: "This report postulates a critical role for the quantity and quality of dietary carbohydrate in the pathogenesis of obesity and the metabolic syndrome. Significant changes in human nutrition have occurred during the last 10,000 years, culminating in the current high-glycemic/high-insulinogenic nutrition. A high insulinogenic nutrition represents a chronic stimulus to the beta cells that may induce an adaptive hypertrophy and a progressive dysregulation of the cells, resulting in postprandial hyperinsulinemia, especially in genetically predisposed subjects. Significant evidence suggests that postprandial hyperinsulinemia promotes weight gain and the development of insulin resistance/metabolic syndrome. The hypothesis is able to explain the current epidemic of obesity and the metabolic syndrome in most industrialised countries, as well as some of the genetics of obesity, including the extreme high incidence of obesity and the metabolic syndrome in certain ethnic groups." -- High-Grain Diet May Increase Risk of Cardiovascular Disease American Journal Clinical Nutrition January 2003 77: 43-50 When humans consume more carbohydrates than can be stored, the excess carbohydrate energy is converted to fat by the liver. This process may maintain blood sugar control and prevent diabetes in the short-term, however it may also increase triglyceride concentrations, which may increase the risk of cardiovascular disease. In the last decade, researchers established that fat production by the liver varies depending on dietary habits and health status. The typical Western diet has a high fat content, which means that only a limited amount of carbohydrates are available for liver fat production, and liver fat production tends to be very low among individuals who eat this type of diet. However, when too many carbohydrates were consumed, both liver fat and sugar production were increased. A very low-fat (10 percent of energy) and very high-carbohydrate (75 percent of energy) diet also leads to increased liver fat production, with the increase being even more pronounced when more than half of the carbohydrate was consumed as simple sugars. This points to the importance of carbohydrate quality, as another study using 68 percent of energy from complex carbohydrate resulted in minimal liver fat production. However, it was found that obese individuals with high insulin levels who consume a high-fat (40 percent of energy) diet had a liver fat production rate three to four times higher than that of lean individuals with normal insulin levels. But, both normal and high insulin groups had lower liver fat production on the high-fat diet than on a low-fat, high-carbohydrate diet. Moreover, the low-fat, high-carbohydrate diet caused an increase in triglyceride concentrations, a risk factor for coronary heart disease, which was associated with the liver fat production in both normal and high-insulin individuals. Researchers concluded that the low-fat, high-carbohydrate diet might not be ideal, as it can induce liver fat production and insulin resistance. This is especially true when most of the carbohydrate is in the form of simple sugars. -- Susan >Researchers concluded that the low-fat, high-carbohydrate diet might >not be ideal, as it can induce liver fat production and insulin >resistance. This is especially true when most of the carbohydrate is >in the form of simple sugars. Right - low-fat , high carb is bad. A very useful insight. This says nothing about moderate amounts of carb. being bad... >>Researchers concluded that the low-fat, high-carbohydrate diet might >>not be ideal, as it can induce liver fat production and insulin [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > > This says nothing about moderate amounts of carb. being bad... You must not have read the rest of what I posted. Susan >> I think that excess caloroic intake is probably the greatest singla factor in >> metabolic syndromes. > >That puts you at odds with all the good science. I'm not talking about my opinion. http://www.americanheart.org/presenter.jhtml?identifier=4756 lists Abdominal obesity (excessive fat tissue in and around the abdomen) as the number one factor. So do all of the other authorities. I will amend what I said to rever to obesity rathr than caloric intake as such if you prefer, although I would say that one is the cause of the other. You know perfetly well that obesity and excess caloric intake is the major factor in diabetes and its precursors.. >I eat ten times more veggies now that starch is off my plate. Did you no know that veggies are carbohydrates. Did you mean "avoid refined carbohydrates"? >>>I think that excess caloroic intake is probably the greatest singla factor in >>>metabolic syndromes. [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > Abdominal obesity (excessive fat tissue in and around the abdomen) as the > number one factor. So do all of the other authorities. The AHA and the ADA are the worst places to get information about prevention of heart disease or diabetes. > I will amend what I said to rever to obesity rathr than caloric intake as such > if you prefer, although I would say that one is the cause of the other. > > You know perfetly well that obesity and excess caloric intake is the major > factor in diabetes and its precursors.. First of all, don't ever tell me what I know. Second of all, that's overly simplistic. Studies show that overeating is triggered by insulinogenic nutrition, the cause of the metabolic syndrome in susceptible folks, and worsening lipids in non DM folks. Visceral adiposity is specific for insulin resistance, not mere overeating. It's a marker.> >>I eat ten times more veggies now that starch is off my plate. > > Did you no know that veggies are carbohydrates. Yes, did you read my posts? I distinguished between these and starches, which are the only carbs I suggested limiting. > Did you mean "avoid refined carbohydrates"? Did you READ my POSTS? I meant what I said. Avoid starches. Susan >>>I eat ten times more veggies now that starch is off my plate. >> [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > >Did you READ my POSTS? I meant what I said. Avoid starches. You said "high carb" repeated;y, eg. "It's not true only on a high carb diet; it's also true of insulin resistant folks on a moderate carb diet. Insulin sensitivity falls off throughout life, especially after 30, precipitously after 40." Anyway starches (complex carbohydrates) are the predominant component of "veggies" http://www.carbohydrateaddicts.com/kinds.html >>>>I eat ten times more veggies now that starch is off my plate. >>> [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > > You said "high carb" repeated;y, eg. Because if one is getting carbs from high fiber and leafy veggies, one is eating low carb, even if eating a very large volume of them. If one is eating starches, one is eating high carb even with small serving sizes. > Anyway starches (complex carbohydrates) are the predominant component of > "veggies" http://www.carbohydrateaddicts.com/kinds.html Complex vs. simple carbs has been tossed out as nutritionally valid. Potatoes are more insulinogenic than table sugar, for example. It doesn't matter that veggies are carbs, as a % of total nutrition, they're low carb, with high nutrition content. Susan >Because if one is getting carbs from high fiber and leafy veggies, one >is eating low carb, even if eating a very large volume of them. If one >is eating starches, one is eating high carb even with small serving sizes. You are evidently using a different definition of starches. Veggies are largely starches. >> Anyway starches (complex carbohydrates) are the predominant component of >> "veggies" http://www.carbohydrateaddicts.com/kinds.html > >Complex vs. simple carbs has been tossed out as nutritionally valid. >Potatoes are more insulinogenic than table sugar, for example. Have ytou checked veggies? I'll bet they are the same. >It doesn't matter that veggies are carbs and starches > as a % of total nutrition, >they're low carb, with high nutrition content. I think your wording will be to confusing to people ("even though they are carbs they are low carb") . > You are evidently using a different definition of starches. Veggies are > largely starches. You are evidently having a problem with reality. >>>Anyway starches (complex carbohydrates) are the predominant component of >>>"veggies" http://www.carbohydrateaddicts.com/kinds.html [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > > Have ytou checked veggies? I'll bet they are the same. Wrong again. Have you ever actually looked anything up before posting? As it happens, I test my blood with a glucose meter after meals; I can eat a dinner plate full of veggies and/or salad without a rise, but only a spoonful or two of potato or rice or wheat shoots it up badly. >>It doesn't matter that veggies are carbs > [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > I think your wording will be to confusing to people ("even though they are > carbs they are low carb") . You're the only person trying to confuse the issue, or who's so easily confused. Here's the reality: I eat boatloads of veggies, yet my diet is between 15-20% carbohydrate, much of which is metabolically inactive (unmetabolized) fiber, making it much lower in calories and insulin requirements. Susan >> You are evidently using a different definition of starches. Veggies are >> largely starches. > >You are evidently having a problem with reality. http://ebooks.palm.com/product/book/excerpt/16631 "Most plant foods, including cereals, whole grains, pasta, fruits, and vegetables, are starches, also known as complex carbohydrates." But I think that what you mean by starches is something different from the scientific sense. That's ok >>>>Anyway starches (complex carbohydrates) are the predominant component of >>>>"veggies" http://www.carbohydrateaddicts.com/kinds.html [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > >Wrong again. Have you ever actually looked anything up before posting? You'd be better off leaving off the insults. > As it happens, I test my blood with a glucose meter after meals; I can >eat a dinner plate full of veggies and/or salad without a rise, but only >a spoonful or two of potato or rice or wheat shoots it up badly. http://www.lowglycemicdiet.com/ I do not know what "veggies" are specfically but here are some numbers: Potatoes 37-85 (interestingly yams are quite low). Converted White Rice 38 (instant white 87) Carrots 49 Parsnips 97 Peas 48 So it is all over the place. Now, a few leaves of salad are practically zero calories and essentially zero everything so obviously they are not going to raise anyones blood sugar. They are also completely valueless nutritionally >You're the only person trying to confuse the issue, or who's so easily >confused. Here's the reality: I eat boatloads of veggies, yet my diet >is between 15-20% carbohydrate, much of which is metabolically inactive >(unmetabolized) fiber, making it much lower in calories and insulin >requirements. There's nothing wrong with (the right) carbohydrates as such. They are essential. That's the point I was trying to make originally. You actually agree with it but I could not tell that from your original posts. If people post "avoid carbs" then I am going to follow up because it is wrong. No, it turns out that they usually mean something else entirely, but people need to understand a little more than "go on a low carb diet". > http://ebooks.palm.com/product/book/excerpt/16631 > "Most plant foods, including cereals, whole grains, pasta, fruits, and > vegetables, are starches, also known as complex carbohydrates." > > But I think that what you mean by starches is something different from the > scientific sense. That's ok That is an absurdly simplified, or dumbed down reference. http://www.whatislife.com/glossary/c.htm Carbohydrates Biochemical name for sugar containing molecules including single sugar (monosaccharides) like glucose and galactose, but also polysaccharides (complex carbohydrates) like starch (poly-glucose), cellulose (plant fiber material, also poly-glucose with a different chemical bond structure linking glucose units than those found in starch/glycogen and enzymatically indigestible by humans), chitin (hard shells of insects), and more complex carbohydrate components part of lipids and proteins such as blood serum glycoproteins (antibodies and blood group determinants A, O, B, rhesus positive or negative). All microorganisms (bacteria, viruses) contain carbohydrate surfaces (glycolipids) being the major determinants of immunogenic reactions during infections. http://www.ndif.org/Terms/carbohydrate.html DEFINITION: Any of various neutral compounds of carbon, hydrogen, and oxygen (as sugars, starches, and celluloses) most of which are formed by green plants and which constitute a major class of animal foods. The definitions used in this glossary of terminology either have been provided by the authors of the articles, or have been extracted wholly or in part, or paraphrased from the following sources: The American Medical Association Encyclopedia of Medicine, Charles B. Clayman, MD, Medical Editor, Random House, New York, 1989; Dorland's Illustrated Medical Dictionary, 28th Edition, W. B. Saunders Company, Philadelphia, 1994; The Random House Dictionary of the English Language, Unabridged Edition, 1966; Webster's Ninth New Collegiate Dictionary, 1991. > You'd be better off leaving off the insults. I simply stated fact; it is very clear that you have confused "starch* for "carbohydrate" as if they are one and the same. >> As it happens, I test my blood with a glucose meter after meals; I can >>eat a dinner plate full of veggies and/or salad without a rise, but only [quoted text clipped - 13 lines] > > So it is all over the place. Carrots, parsnips and peas are not eaten on a modified carbohydrate diet because of their starchiness and resultant high glycemic impact. Non starchy vegetables are high in fiber and nutrients, low in calories. > Now, a few leaves of salad are practically zero calories and essentially zero > everything so obviously they are not going to raise anyones blood sugar. They > are also completely valueless nutritionally You and I must shop and eat on different planets. I eat enormous servings of mixed baby greens with almost no bg impact, and they are loaded with nutrients; you must pass these on your way to buying iceberg lettuce. > There's nothing wrong with (the right) carbohydrates as such. Exactly. I eat lots and lots of the right ones, which aren't potatoes, rice, pasta, cereal, bread, parsnips, cooked carrots. They are > essential. Wrong. There is no such thing in human nutrition as essential carbohydrates. Biochemically speaking (check a textbook, any textbook), essentials are those things we cannot manufacture ourselves. There are only essential fats and proteins in human nutrition; without them, you will die. You can live forever without eating carbohydrates. Protein supplies ample glucose. Fat can,too, in a pinch. > That's the point I was trying to make originally. You actually > agree with it but I could not tell that from your original posts. No, you never made the same point, you don't distinguish between starch and carbohydrate, and you have zilch understanding of nutrition. > If people post "avoid carbs" then I am going to follow up because it is wrong. You confused "carbs" with "starch." You still don't know that there's a difference in content in different foods. You also don't know that carbohydrate is a non-essential macronutrient. > No, it turns out that they usually mean something else entirely, but people > need to understand a little more than "go on a low carb diet". People need to understand what a carbohydrate is and does before they spout off a bunch of incorrect nonsense about nutrition and dietary needs. Susan >No, you never made the same point, you don't distinguish between starch >and carbohydrate, and you have zilch understanding of nutrition. Ok I'm done since I do not care for the totally unjustified personal insults. Too bad since it is was a very interesting discussion.... > Ok I'm done since I do not care for the totally unjustified personal insults. You're done, alright, but it's got nothing to do with anything unjustified. You misrepresented every statement I made and contradicted all the scientific literature, then had the noive to call my definitions unscientific. > Too bad since it is was a very interesting discussion.... Only to you, I'm afraid. Susan >>Because if one is getting carbs from high fiber and leafy veggies, one >>is eating low carb, even if eating a very large volume of them. If one [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > > Have ytou checked veggies? I'll bet they are the same. Don, are you failing to distinguish between starches and carbohydrates? From your statements, it appears that you are. Susan I am allergic to wheat and gluten (Celiac disease). My sinus' have not improved but have gotten worse over the last 3 years. shirleyann Did it take 8 days before you noticed any effects in regards to your sinuses? I am preparing to begin a series of food elimination trials to identify any allergens/irritants. Tyler > Did it take 8 days before you noticed any effects in regards to your > sinuses? I am preparing to begin a series of food elimination trials > to identify any allergens/irritants. > > Tyler Yes Tyler, but I stopped choking on phlegm after 2 days without bread and pasta. I was eating 6 to 8 slices of bread per day and pasta for my evening meal. One thing I find is that I don't want bread or pasta anymore. Even the wheat free products bloat me. Now, I'm eating better, nuts, fruit, dried fruit etc. I'm sort of adjusting my diet as I go. The first couple of day's, I coudn't think what to eat but I soon got the hang of things. Just anything but bread. :-) Less bulky food is making me feel a lot better but I will keep eating rice and a few potatoes as I don't get any indigestion from them and I feel I need them in my diet. I think I am wheat and gluten intolerant. Best of Luck Tony |
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