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Medical Forum / Diseases and Disorders / Sinusitis / January 2006

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My experience irrigating with antibiotics

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dougreding@gmail.com - 11 Jan 2006 18:30 GMT
This is an update to previous posts.  I had posted previously that
largely out of desperation I experimented on myself by using the
antibiotic Cephalexin in my Hydropulse.  I had tried irrigation for
lengthy periods using both isotonic and hypertonic solution, with
little improvement.  The Cephalexin had been prescribed for an ingrown
toenail and I knew from past experience that all I needed was a topical
antibiotic for that, so I saved the Cephalexin.

Once I began irrigating with Cephalexin (twice daily) my sinuses
improved tremendously.  This lasted for a decent amount of time but
then regressed somewhat.  When I ran out of Cephalexin my sinuses
returned to their previous state, which allows very little airflow
through my nasal passages.

I tried Betadine twice daily to no avail, which makes me wonder if
bacteria was my problem at all? I had read elsewhere that irrigation
with antibiotics can help a lot in some cases simply by acting as an
anti-inflammatory rather than antibacterial.  I wonder if my problem is
entirely inflammation and swelling.  I do produce a decent amount of
mucus during cold weather especially, but it is never discolored which
would suggest lack of bacterial infection?

I should also mention that Alkalol didn't help a bit, either.  If
anything it made me produce more mucus.

I'm not sure what to do next.  I am wondering what irrigation with
antibiotics on a permanent basis would do and how much might be
absorbed systemically? Could it still be bacterial, even though I have
no discolored mucus? (Despite producing way more than I would like)
Fungal? I'm really discouraged at this point.
jabba - 12 Jan 2006 03:18 GMT
> This is an update to previous posts.  I had posted previously that
> largely out of desperation I experimented on myself by using the
[quoted text clipped - 26 lines]
> no discolored mucus? (Despite producing way more than I would like)
> Fungal? I'm really discouraged at this point.

I've tried many different things like you and also like you they
work great for a while.  You think you've found a cure and you've
turned a corner.  Then the effect wears off and your back to
abnormal.  Sinusbuster did this for me.  I thought it was great
and did very good after starting it.  It worked for about
three weeks then slowly stopped.   Right now I think the best
theory is a sinusitis/fungal/intestinal relationship caused
by antibiotic overuse.
jabba - 12 Jan 2006 04:00 GMT
> I've tried many different things like you and also like you they
> work great for a while.  You think you've found a cure and you've
[quoted text clipped - 4 lines]
> theory is a sinusitis/fungal/intestinal relationship caused
> by antibiotic overuse.

BTW - I think it was Woody who pointed out that the UofM was
leaning this way too.  I found this article and posted it a
while back.   Here it is again...

http://www.med.umich.edu/opm/newspage/2004/allergies.htm
Johnny1000@webtv.net - 12 Jan 2006 03:37 GMT
Question to those who have tried the antibiotic irrigation:   Does it
really help, or are you really just getting the benefit from the saline
wash?

I'm no Dr., but I would think the antibiotic would have a lot greater
effect, if you took it internally. Maybe the benefit come from the
antibiotic laced liquid comes not from an effect within the sinuses
themselves, but rather after it runs down the back of the throat, and
into the stomach.   ...Jon
tyshock - 12 Jan 2006 15:13 GMT
One theory i've read is that the transportation of antibiotics into the
sinus tissues is poor.  Furthermore, the bacteria are actually living
outside of the tissue, so even if the tissue gets saturated with
antibiotics, it still doesn't address the bacteria in the sinus cavity.

If only we could easily clean all of our sinuses as easily as we wash
our hands.
Susan - 12 Jan 2006 15:21 GMT
> Question to those who have tried the antibiotic irrigation:   Does it
> really help, or are you really just getting the benefit from the saline
> wash?

I get much better results with pulsatile irrigation than I did with a
plain saline squirt bottle.

> I'm no Dr., but I would think the antibiotic would have a lot greater
> effect, if you took it internally. Maybe the benefit come from the
> antibiotic laced liquid comes not from an effect within the sinuses
> themselves, but rather after it runs down the back of the throat, and
> into the stomach.   ...Jon

Oral antibiotics do not penetrate the sinuses well at all, they have
little blood supply.  Getting abx directly into them is much more efficient.

Susan
jabba - 13 Jan 2006 02:02 GMT
<snip>
> Oral antibiotics do not penetrate the sinuses well at all, they have
> little blood supply.  Getting abx directly into them is much more
> efficient.
>
> Susan

Why does everyone say this all the time.  I mean I could be wrong and
I've read nothing one way or another but to me the sinus mucosa is
absolutely filled with abundant blood supply.  One tiny cut to the
mucosa results in lots of blood.  It's difficult to stop bleeding
after sinus surgery.  I really don't think that the blood supply
is poor.
Susan - 13 Jan 2006 02:08 GMT
> Why does everyone say this all the time.  I mean I could be wrong and
> I've read nothing one way or another but to me the sinus mucosa is
> absolutely filled with abundant blood supply.

Not according to my ENT or immunologist.  And in my experience, the lag
time for orals to have much effect is very long, compared to other
infections.

 Susan
jabba - 13 Jan 2006 04:07 GMT
> x-no-archive: yes
>
[quoted text clipped - 7 lines]
>
>  Susan

I think it's just an excuse since they can't cure chronic sinusitis.
Gotta blame it on something.
Susan - 13 Jan 2006 17:11 GMT
> I think it's just an excuse since they can't cure chronic sinusitis.
> Gotta blame it on something.

LOL

Susan
tyshock - 12 Jan 2006 15:18 GMT
If you haven't already, you could look at a pseudoephedrine based
decongestant to try and address the swelling.  Also, one of the steroid
sprays, ie rhinocort, may be an answer to reduce swelling.
Susan - 12 Jan 2006 15:22 GMT
> If you haven't already, you could look at a pseudoephedrine based
> decongestant to try and address the swelling.  Also, one of the steroid
> sprays, ie rhinocort, may be an answer to reduce swelling.

I'm still trying to recover from the bloodiness and blood congestion
that a couple of months of Rhinocort caused me.

Susan
tyshock - 12 Jan 2006 15:26 GMT
How long did it take to start noticing the blood after you started the
rhinocort?

Tyler
Susan - 12 Jan 2006 15:27 GMT
> How long did it take to start noticing the blood after you started the
> rhinocort?
>
> Tyler

Couple of months.  It's now almost a month since I stopped it, and the
bloodiness is diminishing in the past week.

Susan
tyshock - 12 Jan 2006 15:34 GMT
Before the blood, was the rhinocort working well for you?

(i'm asking because i'm thinking of going on rhinocort permanently.  I
was going to do allegraD as my daily med, but the allegra was causing
me vertigo/nausea and I need to decide on something else)
Susan - 12 Jan 2006 16:08 GMT
> Before the blood, was the rhinocort working well for you?
>
> (i'm asking because i'm thinking of going on rhinocort permanently.  I
> was going to do allegraD as my daily med, but the allegra was causing
> me vertigo/nausea and I need to decide on something else)

I never perceived a benefit from it.  I continue to use Astelin nasal
spray, which is very helpful in my case, and I take Zyrtec daily.  I
don't know your hx wrt antihistamines, but I had a life threatening
reaction to Seldane years ago that included vertigo and nausea, took
Tavist for years, and have dramatically better results with Zyrtec,
compared to anything I've ever taken.  I think response to oral
antihistamines is highly variable among individuals.

Susan
 
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