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Medical Forum / Diseases and Disorders / Sinusitis / December 2005Irrigation doesn't work????
Okay here is the deal have been battling sinusitis for about a year and a half, enterobacter was one of the bugs but i seem to have kicked it. Had a CT in May of this year with signs of moderate to severe sinusitis. I have been irrigating about 3 times a week, and i surf so water is always flushing my sinuses out. There was a period of about 6 weeks since May that i didn't irrigate. Went in today for a follow up CT per my ENT, and seems mucosoul build up is worse? what the hell is going on? been using breate ease gel, saline mixture, and enzymes but after today i'm a little frustrated, i have also been exercising more and eating better? I had blood work done a few days ago and my Eosinophils were elevated slightly, scale for blood work was 0-5 and mine came back 10? Sould i be concerned? I feel good i'm not currently ill, but i thought that the mucous would diminish??? Any thoughts? Thank you >Okay here is the deal have been battling > sinusitis for about a year and a half, [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > seems mucosoul build up is worse? what the > hell is going on? Well firstly...I don't think ocean water filled with sand and other by-products (sea weed, fish crap etc) is the best thing for your sinuses, but here's my story... I irrigated religiously for about 3 or 4 years -- 3X per day. .Basically, all it did was help to keep my nose clear; however, I knew it wasn't curing the underlying problem. ...I still experienced periodic flare-ups where antibiotics were required, and if I put pressure on one of my eyes, I felt pain in behind it.. ....I hate to say this, but it wasn't until I added a _good_ shot of hydrogen peroxide to my saline mixture that things started to improve. ....I (by accident) over did the recommended amount. ...I hung my head over the tub writhing in pain... However, out came mucus and blood (In fact, the pain was so severe, I felt like I was going to purge my brain too). ...Since that time (3 years ago), the pain behind my eye has completely dissappeared. .... I have cut back on my irrigation (considerably), although I believe my condition may be now starting to return, as lately I have experienced some ongoing congestion.. (I should add... I haven't had the need to take any antibiotics for over 3 years now) ...I firmly believe it was that first hydrogen peroxide application that proved the most effective towards ridding me of the affliction -- out of everything that I have tried. ....Although I must add, subsequent applications did little more than irritate my sinus tissue. I wouldn't recommend the regimen for everyone, but I know for me, it did accomplish more than just merely rinsing out the outer mucus. ...Good luck with your condition. ...Jon Jon i have always heard that salt water cleans the sinuss out? What is a good product to irrigate with that clears mucous? mwgoldie67@cox.net (Lateralus) wrote: >Jon i have always heard that salt water cleans > the sinuss out? What is a good product to > irrigate with that clears mucous? I think the whole point of the irrigation (particularly pulsatile) is to assist the natural cleaning process within the sinuses. The salt water solution for me did the job, but unfortunately did not succeed in completely eliminating the infection. ..I think the main concern with irrigating is you don't want to introduce any new bug into your system; thus, I would avoid sucking up sea water. ...Purchase some pickling salt. ...I never bother to precisely measure when I make up my solution, as I go by how it feels. ..If you have too much salt, it's just as painful as not having enough. ...I generally use lukewarm water, but if I'm congested, I'll switch to cold. I also use flonase, which helps. ...Jon On 12/13/05 2:27 PM, in article 10742-439F4AD6-543@storefull-3254.bay.webtv.net, "Johnny1000@webtv.net" >> Jon i have always heard that salt water cleans >> the sinuss out? What is a good product to [quoted text clipped - 13 lines] > lukewarm water, but if I'm congested, I'll switch to cold. I also use > flonase, which helps. ...Jon Pickling or kosher salt, next to drug store USP grade salt, is the purest salt you can get. It has no added iodine or drying agents or other chemicals. Sea salt is evaporated sea water and contains all kinds of stuff that might be irritating to the nose. On the other hand lots of people use "ordinary" table salt with iodine and driers without problems. Depends on your sensitivity. But why take a chance on sea salt with unknown products? If you mix 1/4 teaspoon of salt to four ounces of water you get an isotonic solution . You can increase the amount of salt and get a hypertonic solution for example two 1/4 teaspoons of salt to four ounces makes a 2 Normal hypertonic solution . The advantage of Breathe.ease XL by the way is that it contains electrolytes - calcium and potassium chloride just like your natural blood stream. And there are articles to show that it is more effective for the nose than regular saline. And it doesn't contain preservatives. Doc i haven't really been irrigating regularly, because i haven't beeen sick in awhile but latest CT shows more mucous production, i think i might make an appointment to see you and do the surgery. My doctor advised me to avoid water getting in my ears. So I try to cover my ears as well as I can when i wash my hair. I found this helps me a lot. Some people here suggested irrigating with garlic or horseradish, I haven't tried it but my guess is it must really hurt. > The advantage of Breathe.ease XL by the way is that it contains electrolytes > - calcium and potassium chloride just like your natural blood stream. And > there are articles to show that it is more effective for the nose than > regular saline. And it doesn't contain preservatives. Couldn't one use NuSalt or another substitute in preparing a solution? Susan On 12/14/05 7:24 AM, in article 40arpeF19u0fvU4@individual.net, "Susan" <nevermind@nomail.com> wrote: > x-no-archive: yes > [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > > Susan Hi Susan, don't know anything about Nu Salt. The articles that recocmmend the Locke Ringer's formula - like Breathe.ease XL are at www.ent-consult.com > On 12/14/05 7:24 AM, in article 40arpeF19u0fvU4@individual.net, "Susan" > <nevermind@nomail.com> wrote: [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] > Hi Susan, don't know anything about Nu Salt. The articles that recocmmend > the Locke Ringer's formula - like Breathe.ease XL are at www.ent-consult.com I'll take a look. But since I always have potassium choloride (NuSalt), xylitol (for occasional baking), kosher salt (for everything) and baking soda, I thought I could make a very cost effective version of the irrigation solution. Susan > I'll take a look. But since I always have potassium choloride (NuSalt), > xylitol (for occasional baking), kosher salt (for everything) and baking > soda, I thought I could make a very cost effective version of the > irrigation solution. > > Susan Yes, you can. They are all very cheap ingredients, for the most part salt and baking soda. Apparently a very high markup is charged to call it "Breathe-Ease XL", "doctor-recommended" (by the doctor who sells them, of course), etc. And probably plain salt and baking soda, without the other ingredients, would work just as well. Perhaps just salt works as well, but I think the baking soda helps with the Ph, makes it more gentle. >>I'll take a look. But since I always have potassium choloride (NuSalt), >>xylitol (for occasional baking), kosher salt (for everything) and baking [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > ingredients, would work just as well. Perhaps just salt works as well, but I > think the baking soda helps with the Ph, makes it more gentle. I have to object to your characterization of Dr. Grossan's participation here. Yes, he sells those products, but he also very frequently shares the recipes to make cheap alternatives. Your sniping is uncalled for. Susan > I have to object to your characterization of Dr. Grossan's participation > here. Yes, he sells those products, but he also very frequently shares [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > > Susan Not sniping. Just stating the fact, that there is a very high markup on this product made of very cheap ingredients, mostly salt and baking soda. >>I have to object to your characterization of Dr. Grossan's participation >>here. Yes, he sells those products, but he also very frequently shares [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > Not sniping. Just stating the fact, that there is a very high markup on this > product made of very cheap ingredients, mostly salt and baking soda. Which is perfectly fine, because the markup is for the convenience. Just like the food you get in frozen TV dinners is way cheaper if you bought it and froze it yourself.  SignatureSteven D. Litvintchouk Email: sdlitvin@earthlinkNOSPAM.net Remove the NOSPAM before replying to me. Yes Steven L. has described it exactly. There a lot of things in life you can do or make cheaper for yourself or you can buy the same thing already prepared without the hassle. Yikes - think of all the people that buy a $3 to $5 cup of coffee a day on the way to work! They could just as easy make the coffee at home for a fraction of the price but they choose to spend the money this way due to time or family constraints. I like the product myself. Also, I do not consider spending between $15 and $30 a month too much considering how much prescription drug or office visit copays are nowadays and how important it is to my continued sinus health. > Yes Steven L. has described it exactly. There a lot of things in life you > can do or make cheaper for yourself or you can buy the same thing already [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > visit copays are nowadays and how important it is to my continued sinus > health. I like the product, too, but with frequent use, and the ease of making my own, it's just too pricey. I do keep the individual packets on hand for travel, though. Susan Yes I agree this is good if you have ready and easy access to the ingredients. For me the nearest health food store selling the xyitol and USP salt is 45 minutes away. Plus I have to factor in my time going there and the hassle of it. I probably could get the separate ingredients on the internet but then this would take research to determine if the supply was reputable, plus I would have to factor in the shipping costs. So all these things are relevant. In a pinch when I've run out of the prepared stuff I have made my own solutions. It is good to know how to make your own solution in any case. As you noted and I agree, Dr. Grossan has readily given out formulas and answered questions here and via personal email. I am greatful that he participates in this group. I have never felt that he is here just to sell his products. So I wanted to offer my support to him in case any new readers to this forum read this. > Yes I agree this is good if you have ready and easy access to the > ingredients. For me the nearest health food store selling the xyitol and > USP salt is 45 minutes away. You have internet access; that's where I've bought xylitol for years. If you have nowhere to buy kosher salt you should probably move. ;-) Plus I have to factor in my time going there > and the hassle of it. I probably could get the separate ingredients on the > internet but then this would take research to determine if the supply was > reputable, plus I would have to factor in the shipping costs. So all these > things are relevant. In a pinch when I've run out of the prepared stuff I > have made my own solutions. It is good to know how to make your own > solution in any case. Where do you buy the ready made stuff? Susan I get the Breath.ease XL from AlerG in California. They have a web site. So you can get it over the internet or they have a store you can go to if you live nearby. I've found AlerG to be reliable and reputable, plus they carry many hard to get allergy related products. This company has a very good return policy -- no questions asked. Also many of the workers at the company suffer from allergies so the products are tried out by the employees before being sold in their catalog. I can buy regular Kosher salt and baking soda at any grocery store so this has not been a problem in times of emergencies. The Whole Foods store that is 45 minutes from me carries the xyitol and a USP salt brand which I prefer over regular Kosher salt. The USP salt brand (I don't have the brand name with me) is a pharmaceutical grade, finer ground version of non-iodized, no additives salt specifically formulated for nasal irrigation. I think it is about $3.00 for an 8oz bag of this salt. This brand from Whole Foods is much easy to mix in solution than regular kosher salt. Where do you get your supplies?? > I get the Breath.ease XL from AlerG in California. They have a web site. > So you can get it over the internet or they have a store you can go to if [quoted text clipped - 15 lines] > > Where do you get your supplies?? Sedum, I think you may be addressing me, but since you don't quote anything you're replying to, it's impossible to know for sure. I buy from the cheapest source, I do a new search each time, though I note that the price of certain products seems to be fixed at a particular level. I suspect this means that those who sell for less have been warned they will lose the product placement if they discount it. AlerG is one place I've shopped at, but I shop at several. For years, I've done much, if not most of my non-grocery shopping online. I've bought bulk xylitol at xylitol now, or smaller quantities at a local health food store. I buy supermarket kosher salt, and I have no problem dissolving it, especially since I nuke the water til it's hot each time. NuSalt is potassium chloride and can be found in any supermarket. Susan Susan, Thank you for replying how you get your supplies. I am sorry I don't know how to pull in a previous post to quote it in my reply in this newsgroup :-) So usually I find myself writing a book to explain myself... So one question I have for you is how do you know if your credit card is safe with the new internet vendor each time? I guess my problem with this approach is protecting my credit card information. I know I am not liable for any charges. You see from my actual experiences in the software industry with helping companies with their web sites I have found many e-commerce web sites and their respective databases are not very secure. Through various means the information can be stolen by inside employees or outsiders months later than you purchase the product with your credit card. That is why I deal with a small number of vendors I've had good luck with in the past. > Susan, Thank you for replying how you get your supplies. I am sorry I don't > know how to pull in a previous post to quote it in my reply in this > newsgroup :-) So usually I find myself writing a book to explain > myself... You're going to need to learn how to quote; most newsreaders will do so when you hit "reply." Otherwise, you just have to cut and paste a small snippet that you're responding to. > So one question I have for you is how do you know if your credit card is > safe with the new internet vendor each time? It's not any less safe than when I hand it to someone in a restaurant or store. I try not to store my info on internet sites. Some folks have one card just for the internet. I guess my problem with this > approach is protecting my credit card information. I know I am not liable > for any charges. You see from my actual experiences in the software > industry with helping companies with their web sites I have found many > e-commerce web sites and their respective databases are not very secure. As compared to brick and mortar stores? > Through various means the information can be stolen by inside employees or > outsiders months later than you purchase the product with your credit card. > That is why I deal with a small number of vendors I've had good luck with > in the past. We each have to decide what our risk/benefits ratios are. I find stuff online that I can't find locally, or for much less, or both. Susan > Hi Susan, don't know anything about Nu Salt. The articles that recocmmend > the Locke Ringer's formula - like Breathe.ease XL are at www.ent-consult.com Yes, that is your web site, on which are your articles, recommending your products. > I irrigated religiously for about 3 or 4 years -- 3X per day. > .Basically, all it did was help to keep my nose clear; however, I knew > it wasn't curing the underlying problem. ... No, it certainly does not cure the underlying problem, despite some statements to that effect. It certainly hasn't with me (after much more than 3 or 4 years), and I don't think with others on the NG either. It does help to wash out the thick mucous buildup though. I need to irrigate to breathe. I'd be miserable without it. But it certainly has not "cured" me, not a bit. Lateralus - I think you need to irrigate more than 3 times a week for it to be effective.Think if we were talking about brushing teeth - brushing three times a week would not be enough to prevent tooth decay! I irrigate twice daily and us the Breathe.ease XL powder which I find much better than Kosher salt or USP salt. Also if you have allergies or underlying structural problems you must treat these for the sinuses to get better not just take the antibiotics. Increased Eosinophils are a measure of allergies in the system. |
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