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Medical Forum / Diseases and Disorders / Sinusitis / October 2005Grossan irrigator newbie
Prior to using the Grossan irrigator, I had been using a Pretz bottle and it worked wonderfully. Helped open up my passageway and lessened the pnd. Started using the Grossan this weekend and now my nose is blocked (alternating nostrils), the thick pnd is returning, sinuses hurt and in generally, I feel like I'm coming down with a cold. I've alternated with just a teaspoon of salt and salt/baking soda/hydrogen peroxide solutions. Is there a correlation between switching irrigation methods and my symptons? Is this merely an adjustment period? Keep pluggin away or stop before further damage? I'm also using the throat irrigator...what's the trick to not gagging? > Prior to using the Grossan irrigator, I had been using a Pretz bottle > and it worked wonderfully. Helped open up my passageway and lessened [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > symptons? Is this merely an adjustment period? Keep pluggin away or > stop before further damage? If your peroxide solution is too strong, it could produce those symptoms. Are you using sterile water; if not, it's possible to introduce pathogens. You may be irritating your nasal passages or sinuses with the solution, the pressure or frequency of use. > I'm also using the throat irrigator...what's the trick to not gagging? Oy, this is tempting... >;-) Sorry, I don't use the throat irrigator. Susan > Prior to using the Grossan irrigator, I had been using a Pretz bottle > and it worked wonderfully. Helped open up my passageway and lessened [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > > I'm also using the throat irrigator...what's the trick to not gagging? Suggest you quit using any hydrogen peroxide for until the inflammation subsides. Also, you salt/soda ratio appears to be too strong. You should be using no more than half as much soda as salt. You may be breaking loose crud that was in there all along but never got washed out before. It took me months of every day use to get all the crud out of my head and achieve some sense of balance. I'd say this is an adjustment period for you. I don't use the throat irrigator, so can't help you there. AW > Suggest you quit using any hydrogen peroxide for until the inflammation > subsides. > > Also, your salt/soda ratio appears to be too strong. You should be using no > more than half as much soda as salt. > [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > > I don't use the throat irrigator, so can't help you there. AW ps- I found for that room temperature water worked better for me than using warmed water. Room temp water had a slight shrinking action on my sinuses while warmed water didn't. I mix my solution in advance by the gallon so the salt/soda is completely dissolved. YMMV I was in a hurry and didn't clarify. I was using teaspoon of salt alone or one teaspoon with 1/2 tp of baking soda and a bit HP. Now, I'm using room temperature water with salt and a pinch of baking soda only. Though it doesn't sting anymore, I'm still not draining as well with the Grossan. Maybe just a coincidence? I'm also coming down with a cold. In general, after two weeks on augmentin, I feel WORSE than before I went to the ENT. What the heck? > I was in a hurry and didn't clarify. I was using teaspoon of salt > alone or one teaspoon with 1/2 tp of baking soda and a bit HP. Now, [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > a cold. In general, after two weeks on augmentin, I feel WORSE than > before I went to the ENT. What the heck? Coming down with a cold is the kiss of death, IME. Susan I'm also coming down with > a cold. In general, after two weeks on augmentin, I feel WORSE than > before I went to the ENT. What the heck? Probably just a coincidence. If you are in North America this is the time of year people start catching colds. I'd keep irrigating 2-3 times daily until you start feeling better. btw- I find that I don't need to fill the Grossan irrigator to capacity all the time. 2/3 full of solution works fine for me. YMMV > Probably just a coincidence. If you are in North America this is the time of > year people start catching colds. [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > btw- I find that I don't need to fill the Grossan irrigator to capacity all > the time. 2/3 full of solution works fine for me. YMMV Sorry, for more questions, fortunately or unfornately...this is my first really bad sinus problem in about 10 years so I'm not sure if what I'm experiencing is 'normal' or not. I've left a message with my ENT, but from the two times I've spoken with her, she doesn't seem like she wants to listen. Though I understand she's not a miracle worker, I just wish she would communicate to me what is going on. Instead I have to find out what's going on from the internet. So, the augmentin isn't compromising my immune system? I feel progressively weaker each day. Also, this is very personal...I haven't really had diarrhea, but let's just say I haven't had a firm bowel movement in almost two weeks either. I'm taking acidophilus pills so no outright diarrhea, no problems right? I switched to 8 ounces last night and this morning and it seems to work better. I wonder if I was overwashing and therefore the cold. I'm going to rest and skip medication and see if that helps. Plus, my teeth started to feel weird last night. Not full on aching, but sensitivity. Lastly, though I was prescribed antibiotics and had all the other symptons of a sinus infection, except my mucous has been either crystal clear or milky white. I wonder if the sinus infection route is wrong and I'm suffering from the side effects of antibiotics without any of the benefits because maybe I don't really have an infection. I have CT scan in 10 days, but I don't know if I can just grit it out for that long. >>Probably just a coincidence. If you are in North America this is the time of >>year people start catching colds. [quoted text clipped - 17 lines] > movement in almost two weeks either. I'm taking acidophilus pills so > no outright diarrhea, no problems right? Please don't take anti-diarrheals if the diarrhea gets "violent", watery or if you run fever with it. There's an antibiotic-induced colitis that can occur from antibiotics. Amoxicillan (found in Augmentin) being one of the prime suspects that cause it. See http://www.aboutibs.org/Publications/CDifficile.html Not trying to scare you, but anti-diarrheals can make it worse if that's what's going on. Best wishes, Lily > I switched to 8 ounces last night and this morning and it seems to work > better. I wonder if I was overwashing and therefore the cold. I'm [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > scan in 10 days, but I don't know if I can just grit it out for that > long. > Sorry, for more questions, fortunately or unfornately...this is my > first really bad sinus problem in about 10 years so I'm not sure if [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > movement in almost two weeks either. I'm taking acidophilus pills so > no outright diarrhea, no problems right? 2 weeks of augmentin isn't going to compromise your immune system. Augmentin made me very ill with diarrhea after only 2 doses. My infectious disease Dr said Augmentin has lots of intestinal side effects for many people and these side effects are pretty much the norm rather than the exception. I couldn't tolerate the Augmentin since I'd had clostritium diff. in the past. I'd add eating real yogurt to the acidolphilous until your gut recovers. > I switched to 8 ounces last night and this morning and it seems to work > better. I wonder if I was overwashing and therefore the cold. I'm [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > scan in 10 days, but I don't know if I can just grit it out for that > long. Just taking a strong antibiotic can make me feel ill. Since your phlegm is clear, you might want to start thinking somewhere else besides your sinuses. Maybe a cold. Maybe a dental problem. If you aren't better in 10 days then your CT scan should tell you whether it's your sinuses or not. I doubt starting the Grossan is the source of what's bothering you. I'd had sinusitis for a very long time and it took me a couple months of daily use to get a full appreciation of how helpful irrigating can be for someone with chronic sinusitis. AW Thanks AW, very helpful. I have had these symptons from at least early August and only saw the ENT in mid September. Could be something else, but probably not a cold (though I do have one now). I have/had other sinus symptons: facial pain/pressure, foul breath, PND, fatigue, sore/irritated throat. My upper right teeth are starting to feel strange. I'll check it out with the dentist. I had a crown replaced 5 months ago, maybe something went wrong. My ent didn't call me back today. I'm going to do the only thing I can do now, I'm taking the next 24-48 hours away from school and staying in bed. Have you had any allergy sensitivity tests done? Depending on where you live the late summer/fall is a bad time for such things as ragweed or mold from falling leaves. Also dust can be year round. I would suggest a visit to an allergist if you haven't gone to one lately. Also medicines like inhaled nasal steriods (Rhinocort aqua) that an allergist or ENT can prescribe help many people with infections and with allergies. You may want to avoid antihistimines as they will make the mucuos thicker and stay in the nose longer. When using the Grossan irrigator make sure you are bending over and looking directly at the drain and keep your head straight (not tipped to either side) and parallel to the drain. This way you won't get any solution in your ears and you will get the full effect of the irrigation. I had an allergy test done over 3 years ago and came up negative. I'll try to get an allergy referral from my school as I've moved to a new environment and the apartment I live in is rather old. I am using Rhinocort and it seems to have help with opening up my right nostril. Development today: as I have been using the Grossan, I notice that I only get post-drainage from my right nostril. It is clear and very watery. My right nostril is the one where I can breathe out of wonderfully. I've been wondering if I actually do have an infection (see all the symptons listed above) because my mucous has been very clear or milky. Well this afternoon, I finally got post-drainage from my LEFT nostril, some 5 hours after irrigation. I was dripping into the sink and on my hand, I noticed that the drainage was watery, but bright yellow. Is this it? I've be unable to breathe with my left nostril but right now I can! Not 100%, but I can actually get air through. Is this a sign of infection that the antibiotics and washing have not been able to reach due to blockage? I'm going to keep an eye on more post-drainage from now on. I'll definitely mention this to the ENT the next time I see her, but anyone want to Sherlock Holmes this one? The following is my personal observation.........YMMV: The bright yellow fluid that came out definitley sounds like infection. You may be making some progress. It seems you were able to get the sinus to open up for a moment. The bad news is that this indicates your sinuses may have been completely closed up. I've had success using ice and cold water irrigations to open up sinuses due to the cold temperatures vasoconstricting properties. You may give this a shot and see how it works. I'd try laying face down on an icepack concentrated over the left sinuses. Do this for 5 minutes and then irrigate with cold water. Note.....if you keep the cold temperature applied for longer than 10 minutes, you are at risk of your body actually increasing swelling as an attempt to combat the cold. While slightly uncomfortable (the cold water irrigations aren't really painful....they just feel 'weird'), you may be able to get some productive drainage. Good luck and stay positive. I was dripping into the sink and on my > hand, I noticed that the drainage was watery, but bright yellow. Is > this it? I've be unable to breathe with my left nostril but right now [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > I'll definitely mention this to the ENT the next time I see her, but > anyone want to Sherlock Holmes this one? I agree with tyler that you might be beginning to make some progress against a crud blockage. Even while using a hydropulse the saline can simply run around a blockage for days until the washing action or your body eventually begins to break up the hardened phlegm. Using a hydropulse is a process and not a quick fix, so you may just be beginning to see some benefits. Drinking lots of water and hot tea are essential. The cool irrigations are a good idea. Standing in the shower with hot water spraying on the side of the blockage helps me. Evaluate if any medicine you are taking might be drying up nasal secretions. Sounds like you might be on the right track. AW Oh this is so frustrating... Okay, I got my ct scan last week but my ent isn't available until November. I don't think I can last that long! So, short of a drill bit, what can I do to get my sinuses to open up? Though irriagation has helped with decreasing the pnd, I feel like all I'm doing is cleaning out my nose. For the last few days, I've noticed that I'm not even getting any post irrigation discharge anymore. Everything seems to come out when I'm irrigating and all I get is milky or white discharge. Nothing else. Yet throughout the day, I'm still getting some pnd. Godawful smelling pnd judging by people's reactions to me. I'm getting pretty desperate. I've thought about taking sudafed to help with drainage but am afraid that will cause more pnd but not necessarily open up my sinuses. I've eaten spicy food, I've drank hot ginger tea, I've taken hot showers, and nothing budges. As of today: Painful/strained sinuses Occassional dull upper teeth pain Occassional dull earache Fatigue Some PND Dry nose Ability to breathe alternates. I'm never completely stuffed up, but neither am able to breathe 100%. Clear/milky discharge Purulent smell Am doing (for about a month!) nasal washing rhinocort Just started: papaya enzyme Am I crazy? Do I have some other condition entirely different? I have thought about GERD, but since I can't see the ENT until November, I can't confirm. Also wanted to add that my tonsils have gotten bigger. They're not big, but they used to be so tiny I couldn't even see them. But I can clearly see them now. No pain. >Though irriagation has helped with decreasing the pnd, I feel like all >I'm doing is cleaning out my nose. For the last few days, I've noticed >that I'm not even getting any post irrigation discharge anymore. >Everything seems to come out when I'm irrigating and all I get is milky >or white discharge. Nothing else. >Yet throughout the day, I'm still getting some pnd. Godawful smelling >pnd judging by people's reactions to me. I'm getting pretty desperate. > I've thought about taking sudafed to help with drainage but am afraid >that will cause more pnd but not necessarily open up my sinuses. If you're draining, your sinuses are probably opening up. The sudafed might help and I don't think there is any rebound effect from pseudoephedrine. >I've eaten spicy food, I've drank hot ginger tea, I've taken hot >showers, and nothing budges. How about a couple cups of strong coffee? This often works for me. On 10/17/05 10:44 AM, in article 1129571040.569620.226230@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com, "tdonline" <trinhd90@gmail.com> wrote: > Oh this is so frustrating... > [quoted text clipped - 39 lines] > thought about GERD, but since I can't see the ENT until November, I > can't confirm. Its really not fair to have you wait for the CT scan results. Call the office where you had the CT done and ask to speak to the radiologist and ask him/her aabout your CT results. Or your family doctor can get the reading for you. Dr Grossan, I think so too but didn't want to whine...too much. I'm a student and the ENT teaches/practices at my uni. I only have the student health center and do not have a family doctor. I'll see about getting my results sooner. It's just a little prickly because the ENT doesn't care or she isn't getting my messages. I've called 3 times in the last month and she's only called back once. The 2nd time I called, I left a message stating adverse reactions to the augmentin and she never called me back. I ended up missing 3 days of school. I just found out she's returned from a vacation. But she/her assistant need to at least acknowledge calls. Keep up with the irrigations. Don't give up on them even though you just feel like you are cleaning your nose they are doing more than that in that they are helping the cilia recover. I have had GERD symptoms. You can have GERD without having heartburn. In my case, the mucuous tasted acidy and had a lot of bubbles in it. I also had a persistent sore throat and was hoarse in the morning. If you have any of these symptoms you could ask the doctor about them. You could try a course of Prilosec OTC (14 days) and see if it does anything for you. The good doctor has called yet, but I went down to the lab and got my results. The sinuses seem fine, here are the findings. Findings: The imaged soft tissue structures and brain are normal. Small mucous retention cyst is seen within the right sphenoid sinus as well as left spheniod sinus. Otherwise the paranasal sinuses are well aerated. Osteomeatal units are patent bilaterally. Visualized mastoid air cells are clear. Impression: Small mucous retention cyst is seen within the right spheniod sinus as well as left ethmoid sinus. Translation? Why do sinuses hurt so much in the morning if everything but the spheniods are fine? Oops, should say the doc has NOT called yet. Will reports ever say "Patient has an infection?" tdonline, thanks for sharing your situation and process. I'm just starting the whole process of allergy tests, Augmentin, oral steroids, upcoming CT scan, etc. Not looking forward to it. At the ent yesterday and he blew my nostrils with some stuff to anwsthesize them prior to poking around in there. This stuff came out of a motorized pump and ran down my throat causing me to gag severely. Apparently everyone does that. Nevertheless, I'm been clear headed ever since - 24 hours. Does anyone know what this stuff was and why has this clear breathing effect lasting so long? Thanks. Got an appt. with the ENT yesterday and the verdict is that it's not my sinuses. Just have cysts and the turbinates are somewhat large, but according to the doc, nothing that should be causing my problems. New verdict is LPR. Prescribed nexium for 3 months. She seemed pretty sure even though she never took a look with her endoscope! Granted I do have all the classic symptoms...but what I don't understand is why all of these things only came to the surface while I was on augmentin. She couldn't/wouldn't explain why I have bad breath along with intermittent release of truly foul malodor.
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