Medical Forum / Diseases and Disorders / Sinusitis / August 2005
For Don Brady: Need Advice On Mayo
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Steven L. - 16 Jul 2005 03:03 GMT Don, I'm thinking seriously of going to Mayo and seeing if there's anything they can do for my sinusitis/asthma/reflux.
You suggested I should see an internal medicine specialist there as my gatekeeper to specialists. Could you tell me whom you saw, whom should I contact to set up an appointment, etc. And did you go to the Minnesota Mayo?
Any help in getting me started would be welcome. You can either post to this NG or if you prefer, email me privately.
Thanx!
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Don Brady - 16 Jul 2005 05:03 GMT >I'm thinking seriously of going to Mayo and seeing if there's anything >they can do for my sinusitis/asthma/reflux. Steven,
I really do recommend it for anyone who is having difficulty resolving diagnostic and treatment options (in any atrea).
>You suggested I should see an internal medicine specialist there as my >gatekeeper to specialists. Yes and in fact they require that for people who have multiple complaints.
> Could you tell me whom you saw, whom should >I contact to set up an appointment, etc. It was Dr. Shirger who saw me after my initial appointment with Otorhino, (Dr. Shirge was actually a Cardiologist and Internal Medicine specialist I think)
He was a very senior staff member that they assigned to me themselves.
I had actually made my original appointmrnt straight with a fairly senior doctor in Otolaryginology. When I arrived, I saw him as scheduled but he immediately referred me back "out" to Internal Medicine and Dr. Shirger took over 95% of the effort.
I do not know whether it was because that particular Otorhino. doctor referred me "back out" that I got such a senior person in Internal Medicine, or whether it was just luck of the draw. I suspect he tried to get a good person and that did play a role.
Now that I think about it, I think that the best course might be for you to first identify someone in Otorhinolaryngology http://www.mayoclinic.org/ent-rst/doctors.html
and call and ask his office if he would want to set up a joint appointment schedule with Internal Medicine. or whether you should leave it until you get there and see him first. The latter approach may work well.
You could start by calling the number at http://www.mayoclinic.org/ent-rst/appts.html and asking which ENT doctors are best for your own situation etc. That is how I did it. They will tell you who is taking what kind of cases etc.
After you line up someone in Otorhino, you could either just go there on the appointment date and let them sort it out when you get there (which is what I did) or try to also line up someone in Internal Medicine ahead of time, on the basis of what you hear from Otorhino.
It is quite a place. One has to realize that they have world experts in practically every field there, and you can even research ahead of time and see who they are. I did that in an unrelated area on an unrelated complaint, and when the people I saw in that area (not Otolaryg.) would not agree to give me a test I wanted, I asked if I could see world expert X. They let me see him the same day (to my surprise) and he allowed me to have a test I wanted that the others were not going to approve. They view themselves as a unique model for clinical practice of medicine and they are.
They have you make an appointment for a Monday and plan on staying for several days, up to a week. There are some inexpensive guest houses you can stay at. Then everything takes place in rapid-fire succession each day. They are all geared up for that for out-ouf-town patients.
>And did you go to the >Minnesota Mayo? Yes I did.
>Any help in getting me started would be welcome. You can either post to >this NG or if you prefer, email me privately. You can email and call me too if you want too.
Don
Gomer Einstein - 26 Jul 2005 18:05 GMT I went to Mayo (Minn.) for sudden profound hearing loss. I was required to present to an ENT doctor, Dr. Joseph J.P. MacDonald, who was chair at the time. He directed me to be examined by a neurologist, opthalmologist, neurologist, and a rheumatologist. And any of those doctors, along the way, may direct you top see some other highly specialized doctor as well. With this approach, at some point you're going to be seen by someone who says," I know what you have." Or the resultant workup written up with the combined findings from all these specialists are reviewed and a consensus on your condition reached that way. The place is very orderly and concise, and very effective. Don't be surprised if you don't see "famous" people there--King Hussein (Jordan?) was there when I was, for example--that's how respected and renowned it is.
Don Brady - 27 Jul 2005 02:51 GMT > I went to Mayo (Minn.) for sudden profound hearing loss. > I was required to present to an ENT doctor, Dr. Joseph J.P. MacDonald, [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] >these specialists are reviewed and a consensus on your condition reached >that way.
> The place is very orderly and concise, and very effective. Yes they have procedures and standards for absolutely everything.
> Don't be surprised if you don't see "famous" people there--King >Hussein (Jordan?) was there when I was, for example--that's how >respected and renowned it is. Did you have any luck on your hearing?
MS - 27 Jul 2005 07:48 GMT > Did you have any luck on your hearing? And you, Don? Did it help your sinusitis-rhinitis? How? What procedures-treatments did they do, and how did it help?
(You have probably written about it before, and I may have read it before, but I forgot. Sorry, getting old. ;-) In any case, there are always new people reading, who may not have read about your experiences at Mayo before.)
Don Brady - 28 Jul 2005 03:53 GMT >> Did you have any luck on your hearing? > >And you, Don? Did it help your sinusitis-rhinitis? How? What >procedures-treatments did they do, and how did it help? Mayo was a long time ago now (15 years?) for me. I was thinking they would do surgery but they did nto want to. So they are conservative (others had sugegsted it).
But they did spot some dietary issues that were contributing to frequent infections, and eventially I have benefitted from that.. Too low on protein in a vegan diet etc. (Note , that is very unsual - most people get *far* too much protein which has its own problems).
Eventually I did have surgery at U. Penn. many years later and I am quite a bit better now (I think I am actually gradually imrpoving now) in part due to a still better diet, more rest and exercise, and better air quality control. I do not think my particular situation is very typical though.
MS - 29 Jul 2005 09:43 GMT > But they did spot some dietary issues that were contributing to frequent > infections, and eventially I have benefitted from that.. Too low on protein in > a vegan diet etc. (Note , that is very unsual - most people get *far* too > much protein which has its own problems). What dietary changes helped your condition?
Don Brady - 29 Jul 2005 22:39 GMT >> But they did spot some dietary issues that were contributing to frequent >> infections, and eventially I have benefitted from that.. Too low on [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > >What dietary changes helped your condition? For me, more protein.
But that is only becuase I had a dietary deficiency of protein. That affects immune status.
But that is going to happen only in some vegans. The vast majority of the population has an excess or protein in their diet.
MS - 05 Aug 2005 16:35 GMT > For me, more protein. > [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > But that is going to happen only in some vegans. The vast majority of the > population has an excess or protein in their diet. Did they (the docs) specify what type of protein? Did they tell you to start eating meat? Or, just to eat more tofu and drink more soymilk (both are supposed to have a lot of protein, and are vegan)?
Harry - 05 Aug 2005 17:08 GMT >> For me, more protein. >> [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] >eating meat? Or, just to eat more tofu and drink more soymilk (both are >supposed to have a lot of protein, and are vegan)? Hello, Meat isnot a "perfect" protein; there is a lot missing. Corn and beans are a "perfect" protein. Corn with beans mix is the only one i really remember, however there are many many more for example: lima beans with i think sesame seed mix - i cannot even spell it. I should try to look it up on the Internet. Will someone please help me out with this.
Susan - 05 Aug 2005 17:30 GMT > Meat isnot a "perfect" protein; there is a lot missing. Meat is the pefect complete protein for human nutritional needs.
Corn and beans are
> a "perfect" protein. Corn with beans mix is the only one i really remember, > however there are many many more for example: lima beans with i think sesame > seed mix - i cannot even spell it. I should try to look it up on the Internet. > Will someone please help me out with this. Well, if you really *want* to accelerate your descent into metabolic syndrome and diabetes you *could* choose to eat that way. Gave me PCOS and type 2 diabetes, but you could get luckier.
The problem with non meat diets is that the stuff folks eat instead tends to end up as a big sugar shot, metabolically speaking.
Susan
Susan - 05 Aug 2005 17:26 GMT >>For me, more protein. >> [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > eating meat? Or, just to eat more tofu and drink more soymilk (both are > supposed to have a lot of protein, and are vegan)? You know, my kid tried to be vegetarian several times in the past year. Knowledgable about nutrition, wanting to eat low GL, a lot of whey protein shakes were included, along with soy and tempeh based meals etc...
It caused weakness, hair loss and exhaustion, even with 100 grams of non animal protein per day. Each time (about 4 trials) going back to animal protein reversed the bad stuff.
We stick to range fed, naturally raised, non feedlot sources of meat and poultry.
Susan
Steven L. - 05 Aug 2005 17:41 GMT > x-no-archive: yes > [quoted text clipped - 22 lines] > animal protein per day. Each time (about 4 trials) going back to animal > protein reversed the bad stuff. It sounds like you're confusing vegetarian with vegan.
I know lots of vegetarians (like my ex-girlfriend) who eat eggs and drink milk. And eggs contain complete protein too.
It's vegans who abjure all animal products, not just animal meat.
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Susan - 05 Aug 2005 18:22 GMT > It sounds like you're confusing vegetarian with vegan. How is that possible? I included dairy on the list.
> I know lots of vegetarians (like my ex-girlfriend) who eat eggs and > drink milk. And eggs contain complete protein too. So did my child. Not a good enough substitute. Unless maybe one eats 6-8 eggs per day. Which is possible, just boring.
> It's vegans who abjure all animal products, not just animal meat. I know that. I thought anyone else who knew the distinction would see that I'd included dairy *and* used the word vegetarian, not vegan.
Further, I spent years eating vegetarian. My health declined badly in every possible way, only I didn't know my diet was the reason til things were out of control.
Susan
Don Brady - 05 Aug 2005 18:19 GMT >You know, my kid tried to be vegetarian several times in the past year. >Knowledgable about nutrition, wanting to eat low GL, a lot of whey [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] >animal protein per day. Each time (about 4 trials) going back to animal >protein reversed the bad stuff. A great balanced vegan diet is possible, but a little harder.
I beleive that you or your kid would be fine on the right vegan (or modified vegan/ mainly vegetarian) diet.
100 grams of protein is several times too much. I think it would risk one's kidneys.
Also your diet may have been lacking in essentail fatty acids.
I do not find soy protein works well for me at all either - I may be slightly allergic to soy or something. It is popular as an all-purpose "meat analog" but it is not really.
I have found nuts (especailly cashews) are one of the best sources of protein and needed fats.
Oddly, they are very filling and so I am not gaining weight at all on a nut-centric diet. I also now eat small amounts of wild salmon to complement any protein deficiency. And my cholesterol has fallen to wonderfully-low levels.
I used to eat a peas-and-rice centric diet but it was too low-fat and I lacked in energy....
Susan - 05 Aug 2005 18:30 GMT > A great balanced vegan diet is possible, but a little harder. I disagree that vegan diets can be healthy, though with a LOT of discipline, one can moderate some of the ill effects.
Still, the higher cancer rates would be enough to keep most informed folks away from them.
> I beleive that you or your kid would be fine on the right vegan (or modified > vegan/ mainly vegetarian) diet. You would be wrong. You would also be uninformed about our nutritional history and knowledge/research.
> 100 grams of protein is several times too much. I think it would risk one's > kidneys. Bullshit. 100 grams is about right for anyone per day.. Further, protein doesn't harm functioning kidneys, glucose does. That's what you get from foods high in carbohydrate and low in fat and protein.
It's also why so many vegans/macrobiotic eaters get pancreatic, ovarian, prostate, and breast cancers.
> Also your diet may have been lacking in essentail fatty acids. Not ever. We keep them very high in our diet from natural sources and from supplements. Flax is a very inferior source that vegans like to tout, compared to fish.
> I do not find soy protein works well for me at all either - I may be slightly > allergic to soy or something. It is popular as an all-purpose "meat analog" > but it is not really. It's incomplete protein, not good heme iron, and it's got carbs.
> I have found nuts (especailly cashews) are one of the best sources of protein > and needed fats. Nuts are a great source of fats, but not adequate protein for optimal lean body mass. Way too high calorie to get adequate protein.
> Oddly, they are very filling and so I am not gaining weight at all on a > nut-centric diet. I also now eat small amounts of wild salmon to complement > any protein deficiency. And my cholesterol has fallen to wonderfully-low > levels. Yep. Mine dropped 100 pt, most of it LDL on low carb, highish fat and protein. It would have dropped 140 points if not for the doubling of my HDL, good cholesterol. I eat meat, fish (all natural or wild), nuts, olives, avocados, dairy. My diet is about 50% fat, only 1/3 of that saturated, 30% protein and 20% carbs from non-starchy sources (salads, veggies, little fruit).
I became severely dyslipidemic on a low fat, low protein vegetarian diet, and type 2 diabetic with PCOS. Reversed all the above with diet alone.
> I used to eat a peas-and-rice centric diet but it was too low-fat and I lacked > in energy.... It also had virtually no useful protein, which a great source of no spike, steady glucose and essential for tissue repair and replacement.
Susan
Don Brady - 05 Aug 2005 18:41 GMT >> 100 grams of protein is several times too much. I think it would risk one's >> kidneys. > >Bullshit. 100 grams is about right for anyone per day.. Further, >protein doesn't harm functioning kidneys, glucose does. That's what you >get from foods high in carbohydrate and low in fat and protein. I do not know why you are getting emotional about it.
The W.H.O. recommends 0.45 grams of protein per kilogram of ideal body weight per day (and that may be on the generous side).
All authorities recognize that a vegetarian diet can be fully adequate, and in fact superior to the saturated-fat-laden typical U.S. diet.
Susan - 05 Aug 2005 19:13 GMT > I do not know why you are getting emotional about it. It's been repeated so often, despite the *complete* lack of scientific evidence in any biomedical literature, and it's been used to cause harm to folks' health. Especially diabetics.
Kind of like "everyone knows that HRT protects women's hearts, bones, brains, that we heard for decades. Only it was never true.
> The W.H.O. recommends 0.45 grams of protein per kilogram of ideal body weight > per day (and that may be on the generous side). I suppose if you're a hungry Somalian kid and not very physically active, it would be a dietary goal to strive for.
> All authorities recognize that a vegetarian diet can be fully adequate, and in > fact superior to the saturated-fat-laden typical U.S. diet. No, not all authorities. Further, the authorities have rendered advice that's made folks fatter, more diabetic younger, with kidney failure and heart disease. Saturated fat isn't the best one you can eat, but it's a much healthier bet than a baked potato or bowl of pasta.
Not one single study finding a role in CVD for saturated fat ever controlled for the metabolic effects of what was eaten *with* the fat. Fat in the absence of high carb causes no ill health effects. The only possible exception that one can find in the peer reviewd literature is that saturated fat *may* make cell walls less permeable.
The lousy U.S. diet is lousy due to trans fats (partially hydrogenated stuff), over reliance on polyunsaturates (pro inflammatory) and high glycemic carbohydrates (sugar, starch, high fructose corn syrup).
Some cites for you to chew on with your rice cake ;-) :
A recent study involving over 40,000 middle-aged and older American men over a period of six years found that there was no link between saturated fat intake and heart disease in men. It also supported the contention that linolenic acid (a form of fat) is preventive against heart disease. (Ascherio A et. al. Dietary fat and risk of coronary heart disease in men: cohort follow up study in the United States. British Medical Journal, 1996 Jul 13, 313:7049, 84-90.)"
"Several studies have shown that high-carbohydrate low-fat diets lead to high triglycerides, elevated serum insulin levels, lower HDL cholesterol levels, and other factors known to raise the risk of coronary artery disease. (See Liu GC; Coulston AM; Reaven GM. Effect of high-carbohydrate low-fat diets on plasma glucose, insulin and lipid responses in hypertriglyceridemic humans. Metabolism, 1983 Aug, 32:8, 750-3. See also Coulston AM; Liu GC; Reaven GM. Plasma glucose, insulin and lipid responses to high-carbohydrate low-fat diets in normal humans. Metabolism, 1983 Jan, 32:1, 52-6. See also Olefsky JM; Crapo P; Reaven GM. Postprandial plasma triglyceride and cholesterol responses to a low-fat meal. American Journal of Clinical Nutrition, 1976 May, 29:5, 535-9. See also Ginsberg H et. al. Induction of hypertriglyceridemia by a low-fat diet. Journal of Clin Endocrinol Metab, 1976 Apr, 42:4, 729-35) "
"The idea that saturated fats cause heart disease is completely wrong, but the statement has been 'published' so many times over the last three or more decades that it is very difficult to convince people otherwise unless they are willing to take the time to read and learn what...produced the anti-saturated fat agenda." (Dr. Mary Enig, Consulting Editor to the Journal of the American College of Nutrition, President of the Maryland Nutritionists Association, and noted lipids researcher.)
"The diet-heart hypothesis [which suggests that high intake of saturated fat and cholesterol causes heart disease] has been repeatedly shown to be wrong, and yet, for complicated reasons of pride, profit and prejudice, the hypothesis continues to be exploited by scientists, fund-raising enterprises, food companies and even governmental agencies. The public is being deceived by the greatest health scam of the century." (Dr. George V. Mann, participating researcher in the Framingham study and author of CORONARY HEART DISEASE: THE DIETARY SENSE AND NONSENSE, Janus Publishing 1993.)
High intake of fats from the Omega-3 group increase HDL cholesterol, which is considered protective against heart disease. Obviously it would be difficult to eat an Omega-3 rich diet while following a traditional fat reduced diet, especially if one were following one of the popular American diets that has one eating only 20-30 grams of fat per day. (Franceschini G. et. al. Omega-3 fatty acids selectively raise high-density lipoprotein 2 levels in healthy volunteers. Metabolism, 1991 Dec, 40:12, 1283-6. See also Journal of the American College of Nutrition 1991:10(6);593-601)
A recent American study showed that low-fat, high-carbohydrate diets (15% protein, 60% carbohydrate, 25% fat) increase risk of heart disease in post-menopausal women over a higher fat, lower carbohydrate diet (15% protein, 40% carbohydrate, 45% fat). (Jeppeson, J., et. al. Effects of low-fat, high-carbohydrate diets on risk factors for ischemic heart disease in postmenopausal women. American Journal of Clinical Nutrition, 1997;65:1027-33)
The largest and most comprehensive study on diet and breast cancer to date, studying over 5,000 women between 1991 and 1994, showed that women with the lowest intake of dietary fat had a significantly higher incidence of breast cancer than the women with the highest intake of dietary fat. It also found that women with the highest intake of starch had a significantly higher incidence of breast cancer than the women with the lowest intake of starch. The study found no evidence that saturated fat had any effect one way or the other on breast cancer, and that unsaturated fat had a significantly protective effect against breast cancer. (Franceschi S et. al. Intake of macronutrients and risk of breast cancer. Lancet; 347(9012):1351-6 1996)
"The commonly-held belief that the best diet for prevention of coronary heart disease is a low saturated fat, low cholesterol diet is not supported by the available evidence from clinical trials. In primary preventions, such diets do not reduce the risk of myocardial infarction or coronary or all-cause mortality. Cost-benefit analyses of extensive primary prevention programmes, which are at present vigorously supported by governments, health departments, and health educationalists, are urgently required....Similarly, diets focused exclusively on reduction of saturated fats and cholesterol are relatively ineffective for secondary prevention and should be abandoned. There may be other effective diets for secondary prevention of coronary heart disease but these are not yet sufficiently well defined or adequately tested." (European Heart Journal, Volume 18, January 1997.)
"We found no evidence of a positive association between total dietary fat intake and the risk of breast cancer. There was no reduction in risk even among women whose energy intake from fat was less than 20 percent of total energy intake. In the context of the Western lifestyle, lowering the total intake of fat in midlife is unlikely to reduce the risk of breast cancer substantially." (Hunter, DJ et. al. Cohort studies of fat intake and the risk of breast cancer - A pooled analysis. New England Journal of Medicine, 334: (6) FEB 8 1996)
2) Title: DG-DISPATCH - ENDO 99: Diabetics Improve Health With Very High-Fat, Low Carb Diet Doctor's Guide June 15, 1999
By Cameron Johnston Special to DG News
SAN DIEGO, CA -- June 15, 1999 -- A very high-fat, low-carbohydrate diet has been shown to have astounding effects in helping type 2 diabetics lose weight and improve their blood lipid profiles.
The results of three studies involving such a diet, which is similar to, but has a few key differences from the famous "Dr. Atkins Diet", were presented today at the annual meeting of the Endocrine Society.
Dr. James Hays, an endocrinologist and director of the Limestone Medical Center in Wilmington, DE, admitted that the concept of a high-fat diet in people who are already at higher risk of cardiovascular disease might seem incongruous. Nonetheless, this study of 157 men and women with type 2 diabetes showed an impressive benefit in body mass index (BMI) triglycerides, HDL, LDL and HbA1c.
Most people are encouraged to reduce the amount of fat in their diets, particularly saturated fats, and diabetics in particular are advised to reduce their overall caloric intake, Dr. Hays explained in an interview in San Diego during the conference.
Whereas a normal diet would be in the order of 1800 to 2100 calories, with 60 percent of calories coming from carbohydrates and 30 percent from fat, patients
in this diet were restricted to 1800 calories per day and were encouraged to get 50 percent of their caloric intake from fat, and just 20 percent from carbohydrates. The balance of 30 percent would come from proteins.
A whopping 90 percent of the fat content in their diets was saturated fat, compared with just 10 percent that was monounsaturated fat.
"I think this is at least worth considering for any diabetic," Dr. Hays said in an interview. "The thing many diabetics coming into the office don't realize is that other forms of carbohydrates will increase their sugars, too. Dietitians will point them toward complex carbohydrates ... oatmeal and whole wheat bread, but we have to deliver the message that these are carbohydrates that increase blood sugars, too."
Higher-fat diets, on the other hand, seem to make the person feel full faster so they eat less; higher-fat diets also tend to reduce postprandial hypoglycemia so the patients feel better after eating.
"Every diabetic comes home from the doctor with instructions as to what their diet should consist of, but they're not getting the information from dietitians about what complex carbohydrates they should eat,"
Dr. Hays said: "The important thing here is no ketosis. We absolutely don't want people to become ketotic, and so we said they had to have so many exchanges of fresh fruits and vegetables and we specified the ones they could eat."
They were able to eat all the meat and cheese they wanted, but as for carbohydrates, they are restricted to eating unprocessed foods, mainly fresh fruit and vegetables, he added.
Subjects recruited into the study (84 men, 73 women) were all type 2 diabetics and were required to undergo a standard American Diabetes Association modified diet for one full year before entry into the trial. Over the course of one year, the subjects achieved a mean decline in total cholesterol of between 231 and 190 mg/dl. Triglycerides declined from 229 to 182 mg/dl.
Low-density lipoproteins (LDL cholesterol) fell from 133 to 105 mg/dl, while HDL increased from 44 to 47 mg/dl.
HbA1c, which at the start of the study averaged 3.34 percent above normal, declined to the point that at one year, the mean was just 0.96 percent above normal.
The average weight loss among subjects in the study was in the order of 40 pounds, Dr. Hays said.
By the end of the one-year study, he added, 90 percent of the patients had achieved ADA (American Diabetes Association) targets for HbA1c, HDL, LDL and triglycerides.
Even among juvenile diabetics, he said, they might not be overweight and they might have more or less normal lipid levels, but when they are on this kind of diet it is possible to treat them with lower doses of insulin and make their lives a little safer, he said.
As for the response from cardiologists who see a high-fat diet as anathema to what they have been instructing their patients for years now, Dr. Hays said he has three cardiologist patients who are now on the diet.
"If you have a diet that results in weight loss, lower cholesterol, and a better lipid profile, eventually, everybody will be eating that way. It's going to come whether we like it or not."
The New England Journal of Medicine -- November 20, 1997 -- Vol. 337, No. 21
Dietary Fat Intake and the Risk of Coronary Heart Disease in Women Frank B. Hu, Meir J. Stampfer, JoAnn E. Manson, Eric Rimm, Graham A. Colditz, Bernard A. Rosner, Charles H. Hennekens, Walter C. Willett ------------------------------------------------------------------------- -------
Abstract Background. The relation between dietary intake of specific types of fat, particularly trans unsaturated fat, and the risk of coronary disease remains unclear. We therefore studied this relation in women enrolled in the Nurses' Health Study.
Methods. We prospectively studied 80,082 women who were 34 to 59 years of age and had no known coronary disease, stroke, cancer, hypercholesterolemia, or diabetes in 1980. Information on diet was obtained at base line and updated during follow-up by means of validated questionnaires. During 14 years of follow-up, we documented 939 cases of nonfatal myocardial infarction or death from coronary heart disease. Multivariate analyses included age, smoking status, total energy intake, dietary cholesterol intake, percentages of energy obtained from protein and specific types of fat, and other risk factors.
Results. Each increase of 5 percent of energy intake from saturated fat, as compared with equivalent energy intake from carbohydrates, was associated with a 17 percent increase in the risk of coronary disease (relative risk, 1.17; 95 percent confidence interval, 0.97 to 1.41; P = 0.10). As compared with equivalent energy from carbohydrates, the relative risk for a 2 percent increment in energy intake from trans unsaturated fat was 1.93 (95 percent confidence interval, 1.43 to 2.61; P<0.001); that for a 5 percent increment in energy from monounsaturated fat was 0.81 (95 percent confidence interval, 0.65 to 1.00; P = 0.05); and that for a 5 percent increment in energy from polyunsaturated fat was 0.62 (95 percent confidence interval, 0.46 to 0.85; P = 0.003). Total fat intake was not significantly related to the risk of coronary disease (for a 5 percent increase in energy from fat, the relative risk was 1.02; 95 percent confidence interval, 0.97 to 1.07; P = 0.55). We estimated that the replacement of 5 percent of energy from saturated fat with energy from unsaturated fats would reduce risk by 42 percent (95 percent confidence interval, 23 to 56; P<0.001) and that the replacement of 2 percent of energy from trans fat with energy from unhydrogenated, unsaturated fats would reduce risk by 53 percent (95 percent confidence interval, 34 to 67; P<0.001).
Conclusions. Our findings suggest that replacing saturated and trans unsaturated fats with unhydrogenated monounsaturated and polyunsaturated fats is more effective in preventing coronary heart disease in women than reducing overall fat intake. (N Engl J Med 1997;337:1491-9.)
Source Information
>From the Departments of Nutrition (F.B.H., M.J.S., E.R., W.C.W.), Epidemiology (M.J.S., J.E.M., E.R., B.A.R., W.C.W.), and Biostatistics (B.A.R.), Harvard School of Public Health; and the Channing Laboratory (M.J.S., J.E.M., E.R., G.A.C., B.A.R., C.H.H., W.C.W.) and the Division of Preventive Medicine (J.E.M., C.H.H.), Department of Medicine, Brigham and Women's Hospital and Harvard Medical School -- all in Boston. Address reprint requests to Dr. Hu at the Department of Nutrition, Harvard School of Public Health, 665 Huntington Ave., Boston, MA 02115.
Ann Intern Med 1998 Apr 1;128(7):524-33
Metabolic risk factors worsen continuously across the spectrum of nondiabetic glucose tolerance. The Framingham Offspring Study.
Meigs JB, Nathan DM, Wilson PW, Cupples LA, Singer DE Massachusetts General Hospital, Harvard Medical School, Boston University School of Public Health, 02114, USA. jmeigs@sol.mgh.harvard.edu
BACKGROUND: Categorical definitions for glucose intolerance imply that risk thresholds exist, but metabolic risk for type 2 diabetes mellitus or cardiovascular disease may increase continuously as glucose intolerance increases. OBJECTIVE: To examine the distributions of the following metabolic risk factors across the spectrum of glucose tolerance: overall and central obesity, hypertension, low levels of high-density lipoprotein cholesterol, and increased triglyceride and insulin levels. DESIGN: Cross-sectional analysis. SETTING: The community-based Framingham Offspring Study. PARTICIPANTS: 2583 adults without previously diagnosed diabetes. MEASUREMENTS: Clinical data; fasting glucose, insulin, and lipid levels; and glucose and insulin levels taken 2 hours after oral challenge were collected from 1991 to 1993. Glucose tolerance was determined by 1980 World Health Organization criteria. Patients with normal glucose tolerance were categorized into quintiles of fasting glucose. The distributions of each metabolic risk factor and the metabolic sum of the six risk factors were assessed across seven categories from the lowest quintile of normal fasting glucose level through impaired glucose tolerance and previously undiagnosed diabetes. RESULTS: The mean age of patients was 54 years (range, 26 to 82 years); 52.7% of patients were women. Glucose tolerance testing found that 12.7% of patients had impaired glucose tolerance and 4.8% had previously undiagnosed diabetes. Multivariable-adjusted mean measures of risk factors and odds ratios for obesity, elevated waist-to-hip ratio, hypertension, low levels of high-density lipoprotein cholesterol, elevated triglyceride levels, and hyperinsulinemia showed continuous increases across the spectrum of nondiabetic glucose tolerance. Although a threshold effect near the upper range of nondiabetic glucose tolerance could not be ruled out for triglyceride levels in men and for insulin levels 2 hours after oral challenge in men and women, no other metabolic risk factors showed clear evidence of thresholds for increased risk. CONCLUSIONS: Metabolic risk factors for type 2 diabetes mellitus and for cardiovascular disease worsen continuously across the spectrum of glucose tolerance categories, beginning in the lowest quintiles of normal fasting glucose level.
PMID: 9518396, UI: 98175274
Susan
Don Brady - 05 Aug 2005 19:28 GMT >The lousy U.S. diet is lousy due to trans fats (partially hydrogenated >stuff), over reliance on polyunsaturates (pro inflammatory) and high >glycemic carbohydrates (sugar, starch, high fructose corn syrup). I agree with a lot of that.
High fructose corn syrup may be the worst single addition to our diet ever introduced. It may be linked to the rise in obesity.
>A recent study involving over 40,000 middle-aged and older American >men over a period of six years found that there was no link between [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] >cholesterol levels, and other factors known to raise the risk of >coronary artery disease. I agree. I am not (any more) on an extremely low-fat diet. Raw nuts are high in mono and poly unsaturated fats. They do not contain trans fats.
>High intake of fats from the Omega-3 group increase HDL cholesterol, >which is considered protective against heart disease. Obviously it [quoted text clipped - 13 lines] >ischemic heart disease in postmenopausal women. American Journal of >Clinical Nutrition, 1997;65:1027-33) I agree - I am not in favor of a low-fat diet (any more) It is too risky in terms of diabetes etc.
Thanks for the other citations too.
Most of them seem to be mainly aimed at debunking high-carb. diets. I agree.
However, I think that saturated fats are too risky to the heart.
Susan - 05 Aug 2005 19:49 GMT >>The lousy U.S. diet is lousy due to trans fats (partially hydrogenated >>stuff), over reliance on polyunsaturates (pro inflammatory) and high [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > High fructose corn syrup may be the worst single addition to our diet ever > introduced. It may be linked to the rise in obesity. No more than pasta, rice and potatoes. Or Snackwells. :-/
>>A recent study involving over 40,000 middle-aged and older American >>men over a period of six years found that there was no link between [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] > I agree. I am not (any more) on an extremely low-fat diet. Raw nuts are high > in mono and poly unsaturated fats. They do not contain trans fats. Nope, they're loaded with heart healthy fats.
>>High intake of fats from the Omega-3 group increase HDL cholesterol, >>which is considered protective against heart disease. Obviously it [quoted text clipped - 16 lines] > I agree - I am not in favor of a low-fat diet (any more) It is too risky in > terms of diabetes etc. And quite a few cancers. And premature skin aging, as an observation.
> Thanks for the other citations too. > > Most of them seem to be mainly aimed at debunking high-carb. diets. I agree. They are. I have lots more showing that even high protein won't damage healthy functioning kidneys. High carbs will.
> However, I think that saturated fats are too risky to the heart. I don't agree that saturated fats pose *any* risk in the absence of high GL, with one small caveat; if the reduced cell wall permeability causes an elevation in insulin resistance, it might contribute. So far, that's not established. But some folks do seem sensitive to sat fat, and there's no harm in limiting them. Did you know, frex, that an untrimmed sirloin steak has more monounsaturated fat in it than saturated? It also has polyunsaturates. Combined, they make up more than half the fat in the steak.
Also, grass fed beef is much heart healthier than feedlot beef. It's higher in cis linoleic acid, omega 3s and lower in arachidonic acid.
Susan
Don Brady - 05 Aug 2005 20:34 GMT >> High fructose corn syrup may be the worst single addition to our diet ever >> introduced. It may be linked to the rise in obesity. > >No more than pasta, rice and potatoes. Or Snackwells. :-/ Oh I'm afraid it may indeed be worse.
See http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/chronicle/archive/2004/02/18/FDGS24 VKMH1.DTL
Susan - 05 Aug 2005 21:50 GMT >>>High fructose corn syrup may be the worst single addition to our diet ever >>>introduced. It may be linked to the rise in obesity. [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > See > http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/chronicle/archive/2004/02/18/FDGS24 VKMH1.DTL I think it's only worse in the same way that any sugar is; no nutritive value for a big calorie buck.
Potatoes, frinstance, have a higher GI than table sugar. White flour is about equal to it and whole wheat not that much better.
I think HFCS may just be a marker for all around poor nutrition choices.
Susan
Don Brady - 05 Aug 2005 22:45 GMT >> http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/chronicle/archive/2004/02/18/FDGS24 VKMH1.DTL > [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] >Potatoes, frinstance, have a higher GI than table sugar. White flour is >about equal to it and whole wheat not that much better. Yes you are correct.
However potatoes have vitamins and minerals that table sugar does not. And of course they are normally eaten with a high-protein food with fat.
Glycemic index may be very important (not proven yet) but there are a lot of other things to consider in any case...
>I think HFCS may just be a marker for all around poor nutrition choices. The problem is that prepared foods are just packed with it. Even things like bread.....
Susan - 05 Aug 2005 22:58 GMT >>>http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/chronicle/archive/2004/02/18/FDGS24 VKMH1.DTL >> [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > However potatoes have vitamins and minerals that table sugar does not. And of > course they are normally eaten with a high-protein food with fat. Yeah, which creates the problem of small, dense lipoproteins and more likelihood of their oxidation causing damage. And potatoes are nutrient impoverished compared to the mixed greens and grilled veggies you'd be better off eating with some meat.
> Glycemic index may be very important (not proven yet) but there are a lot of > other things to consider in any case... I don't view GI as important, it's so varied. Method of preparation changes it tremendously for single foods, and different folks have widely varied responses to the same food. GL is more important, but still results vary.
>>I think HFCS may just be a marker for all around poor nutrition choices. > > The problem is that prepared foods are just packed with it. Even things like > bread..... The problem is reliance on prepared foods. :-) I don't eat bread, it's not very nutritious and it spikes my bg.
Susan
Don Brady - 05 Aug 2005 18:04 GMT >Did they (the docs) specify what type of protein? Did they tell you to start >eating meat? Or, just to eat more tofu and drink more soymilk (both are >supposed to have a lot of protein, and are vegan)? They are comfortable with vegan diets - any protein is fine with them.
I probably get most protein from nuts now...
Gomer Einstein - 28 Jul 2005 03:11 GMT No, my hearing was beyond repair by the time I got there. A person's hearing is unlike most other systems in the body in that the organ which controls it (cochlea) is only about the size of a pea; you can't really get in there to look at it, or work on it. When it's gone, it's gone. You can't unscramble an egg. Wish these people would take note of that with their car stereos you can hear 2 blocks away.
Don Brady - 28 Jul 2005 03:47 GMT > No, my hearing was beyond repair by the time I got there. > A person's hearing is unlike most other systems in the body in that >the organ which controls it (cochlea) is only about the size of a pea; >you can't really get in there to look at it, or work on it. When it's >gone, it's gone. You can't unscramble an egg. I hope that science comes up with something soon.
> Wish these people would take note of that with their car stereos you >can hear 2 blocks away. Right - people need to avoid noise.
I have eliminated most ringing in my ears part by cutting down noise. People should move the computer out of the room (if it noisy) and get extension cables, Stay far away from window air conditioers. etc. (This is addressed to other people, not to you).
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