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Medical Forum / Diseases and Disorders / Sinusitis / May 2005Question about peroxide sinus flooding
In doing a search on sinuses and peroxide irrigation, I turned up a pdf on abcess wound care. One of the warnings in it was about not using peroxide to irrigate a "sinus" due to potential for the oxygen to create an air embolism. Does anyone know if this is a potential risk even with highly diluted hydrogen peroxide? I'm seeing a new ENT Friday, but I'm about ready to throw myself under a train to get out of this misery. Susan The article is addressing an organ "wound sinus", which is totally different from the sinus cavities within your nasal areas. > x-no-archive: yes > [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > > Susan > The article is addressing an organ "wound sinus", which is totally different > from the sinus cavities within your nasal areas. I understand that, but air emboli are possible outside of organ wounds. It seems as though the possibility exists. Can you state why it could not happen? Susan > x-no-archive: yes > [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > > Susan I have no idea. I don't know anything at all about air emboli. I have been doing "upside down sinus floodings" with peroxide for well over three years now. Currently I do about one flooding, or less, a month. I still have not had another sinus infection, after getting several sinus infections, every year, for decades. I've documented my experience at: http://home.bellsouth.net/p/PWP-upsidedown But, I admit that I am not a health professional, at all. I state this in my documentation and also state that I don't know if the sinus flooding will make someone else's health better or worse. "Upside down sinus floodings" with peroxide, baking soda and kosher salt, have made a tremendous difference in my life. Getting sinus infections, one after another, was pure misery. I figured that I would share my discovery with others. Not being a health professional, I can't even say if an aspirin, or a glass of water, would make someone else's health better or worse. Best of luck and health to you. > I have no idea. I don't know anything at all about air emboli. > [quoted text clipped - 18 lines] > > Best of luck and health to you. You sound defensive, so let me be very clear that I asked because I take your story seriously and I was considering giving it a shot. I still take you at your word, but in researching it a bit (I always do my own homework), I came across the potential for embolism, hence my question. I was hoping someone might know the answer. Susan > x-no-archive: yes > [quoted text clipped - 29 lines] > > Susan I am not really being defensive. I just want it known, very clearly, that I am not a health professional. Even if I was a sinus doctor, it would be irresponsible for me to state that any procedure is safe for a particular patient, unless I would examine that patient. I don't know the structure of someone's sinuses. Could someone's Eustachian Tube opening be deformed, and put them more at risk for tube and ear problems, if they would try an upside down sinus flooding? That is my biggest worry. That is why I spent so much time on the Eustachian Tubes in the documentation. Could someone be allergic, or chemically sensitive, to hydrogen peroxide? I don't know. Could someone do an upside down sinus flooding wrong and suffer negative consequences? I don't know. After I discovered upside down sinus flooding, with peroxide, I went two full years before I posted about it on the Internet. I wanted to post about what I had learned, and how it had helped me, but I didn't want to assert that I knew that it could help others. My first inclination was to NOT post about it. That was the easy way to go. Anyway, I wish you much luck in resolving your sinus problems. Regards....... > x-no-archive: yes > [quoted text clipped - 29 lines] > > Susan If your research provides you with an answer to your concern about embolisms, could you post it here. Thanks. http://home.bellsouth.net/p/PWP-upsidedown >>x-no-archive: yes >> [quoted text clipped - 59 lines] > > http://home.bellsouth.net/p/PWP-upsidedown I'm satistfied with Dr. Grossan's assurance about it. Susan >I'm satistfied with Dr. Grossan's assurance > about it. The thing to remember, Susan... In a cut, you put full strength 3% peroxide on it-- hence, lots of bubbles. ...With your sinues, you have to water the peroxide down to practically nothing to even use it, otherwise you couldn't handle the extreme pain and irritaton it causes. ..Jon >>I'm satistfied with Dr. Grossan's assurance >>about it. [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > otherwise you couldn't handle the extreme pain and irritaton it causes. > ..Jon Yes, I understand, but it still bubbles, hence my question. I just used it, and one capful in a pint of water with breathe ease was a tad too much, judging by stinging. Thanks. Susan >Yes, I understand, but it still bubbles, hence > my question. I just used it, and one capful in a > pint of water with breathe ease was a tad too > much, judging by stinging. The first time I tried it, the stinging was so intense, I just hung my head over the tub, and my sinuses instinctively purged themselves. ..I'm wondering if a lot of the good that it apparently does is more a by-product of this intense irritation, rather than the bacterial killing nature of oxygen. ...I felt as if my sinus tissue had turned itself inside-out after the initial exposure. ...Jon > The first time I tried it, the stinging was so intense, I just hung my > head over the tub, and my sinuses instinctively purged themselves. > ..I'm wondering if a lot of the good that it apparently does is more a > by-product of this intense irritation, rather than the bacterial killing > nature of oxygen. ...I felt as if my sinus tissue had turned itself > inside-out after the initial exposure. ...Jon Geez, Lou-eez! It didn't hurt me, but I wouldn't have wanted a single drop more in the solution. Next time, a bit less. If it hurt, I would've stopped, to avoid swelling and blockage. Susan >Geez, Lou-eez! It didn't hurt me, but I wouldn't > have wanted a single drop more in the > solution. Next time, a bit less. If it hurt, I > would've stopped, to avoid swelling and > blockage. I'm thinking that the more H2O2 that one can get into the sinuses, the better. ...I've tried it with a lesser quantity since, but have never benefited in quite the same manner as I did that first time. ..Of course, I put way too much peroxide in with my salt solution, but I sure spewed a massive amount of blood and mucus out too. ... I have to admit, though-- it also hurt like hell. ...Jon >>Geez, Lou-eez! It didn't hurt me, but I wouldn't >>have wanted a single drop more in the [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > spewed a massive amount of blood and mucus out too. ... I have to > admit, though-- it also hurt like hell. ...Jon I haven't had any blood or colored stuff since I began irrigating, except for some clear yellow during a recent cold. Doesn't stop me from having debilitating symptoms, though. This past week, I had two sinus induced migraines and 9 lbs lost due to acute exacerbation following a cold and the stress of having to try to squeeze some meager quality of life in between sinusitis attacks that leave me confined to bed. Ssuan On 5/22/05 4:55 PM, in article 7461-42911C0C-272@storefull-3256.bay.webtv.net, "Johnny1000@webtv.net" >> Geez, Lou-eez! It didn't hurt me, but I wouldn't >> have wanted a single drop more in the [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > spewed a massive amount of blood and mucus out too. ... I have to > admit, though-- it also hurt like hell. ...Jon RULE NUMBER ONE: IF IT HURTS DON'T DO IT. hydromed@adelphia.net (Murray Grossan) wrote: >RULE NUMBER ONE: IF IT HURTS DON'T > DO IT. ..I agree. ...All I'm saying is that my initial overdose of the peroxide appears to have had a more positive effect in the long run, than the subsequent smaller doses did. ...The thing is, unless one is accustomed to the effects of hydrogen peroxide, even small doses can hurt. ...Jon > >Geez, Lou-eez! It didn't hurt me, but I wouldn't > > have wanted a single drop more in the [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > spewed a massive amount of blood and mucus out too. ... I have to > admit, though-- it also hurt like hell. ...Jon Jon, do you add baking soda and kosher salt to the peroxide? You have been using peroxide in your sinuses for quite a while now. If you don't mind the questions, what benefits do you get from using peroxide in your sinuses and how often do you use peroxide in your sinuses? Sinus flooding documentation: http://home.bellsouth.net/p/PWP-upsidedown >Jon, do you add baking soda and kosher salt > to the peroxide? [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > using peroxide in your sinuses and how often > do you use peroxide in your sinuses? Hi Cando... I've never added baking soda, as our water is quite "hard" here (if that makes a difference). ...I do add pickling salt, though. I've used the H2O2 mixture only about 1/2 dozen times. ...I find the post aggravation kind of hard to deal with in contrast to any noticeable results. Notwithstanding this, I'm convinced I did initially benefit from its use. ....However, it's important to point out that I haven't even had to do "normal" salt water irrigation for the last month or so. I think the peroxide did do a major job of eliminating a "deeper" infection I had that the ordinary salt water (and countless antibiotics) had no effect on. (recall my posts on eye pain when pressure was applied). ...In contrast to Dr. Grossan's warning, however, I do believe one has to add a sufficient quantity of the H2O2, for it to be truly effective. (just my opinion, here-- I'm not advocating sinus sufferers to go out and snort H2O2 full strength) ...This can be quite painful, and the potential side-effects are still unknown. I just think a simple "flavouring" of the salt water with the H2O2 is probably a waste of time. One has to at least take in enough for it to have an effect. It's like pouring "drinkable" alcohol on a wound. ...It might sting a bit, but there's not enough alcohol in booze to kill or even slow the growth of bacteria. ...I agree with what the Dr. says in that you can't improve on a sinus system that is operating normally. ...So, perhaps for me to use the H2O2 now, it would offer no other benefit other than inflicting me with sore sinuses. ...Jon > >Jon, do you add baking soda and kosher salt > > to the peroxide? [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > Hi Cando... I've never added baking soda, as our water is quite "hard" > here (if that makes a difference). ...I do add pickling salt, though. The addition of baking soda is "supposed" to produce a much more powerful anti-infective. . > I've used the H2O2 mixture only about 1/2 dozen times. . I've used the combo of H2O2, baking soda and kosher salt about 50 times over the past 3½ years, most of them during the first year. Currently I do one sinus flooding about every two months. . > ...I find the > post aggravation kind of hard to deal with in contrast to any noticeable [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > had no effect on. (recall my posts on eye pain when pressure was > applied). . I've had feedback from several sinus sufferers who say that they have not had a total success with the sinus flooding, but that they have seen major improvements in how they felt and in their symptoms. I am guessing that they, as well as you, might have eliminated one or more sinus or nasal infections, but not all of the causes of their misery, such as other infections or allergy. . The sinus flooding can only kill germs that it can reach. It may have only limited success for someone that has a sinus infection in one of difficult to reach sinus cavities, such as the maxillaries, which has a weird, upside down "V" type of opening. . If infection is present in difficult-to-reach sinus cavities, the value of sinus flooding is to help keep infection from spreading to the other sinus cavities or to the nasal areas, including the turbinates. . > ...In contrast to Dr. Grossan's warning, however, I do believe one has > to add a sufficient quantity of the H2O2, for it to be truly effective. [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > me to use the H2O2 now, it would offer no other benefit other than > inflicting me with sore sinuses. ...Jon . I agree with you. Peroxide can be nasty to the sinuses, so why expose your sinuses to more discomfort, especially if there are no infections which can be reached by the flooding. . I am glad to see that you haven't done too many sinus floodings with peroxide. Some sinus sufferers go overboard, thinking that the sinus flooding is some magic cure for sinus disease and allergies, rather than what it is, just a method for killing germs within reachable sinus/nasal areas. There is someone on www.curezone.com , Dariush, from Sweden, who has created his own blog to show his experiences with "Upside Down Sinus Floodings" with peroxide. He had gone through six years of sinus hell and five sinus surgeries. When he started his blog he didn't know whether the sinus flooding would work or not. This is on ongoing story of one man's fight against crippling, painful, miserable sinus disease. He resorted to trying the "upside down sinus flooding" because everything else had failed and he was without hope. I won't give up any more details of his "ongoing" story. Follow the following link to read more about Dariush's attempt to use "sinus floodings" with peroxide, to save himself from a lifetime of sinus misery. http://www.curezone.com/blogs/f.asp?f=276&t=35210.41 On 5/17/05 4:21 PM, in article 3evcjpF560akU1@individual.net, "Susan" <mcfeins@NOgmailNO.com> wrote: > peroxide to irrigate a "sinus" due to potential for the oxygen to create > an air embolism. Never heard of that and it makes no sense. I mean you breathe air daily and persons are in hyperbaric chambers daily under 6x normal oxygen pressure. > On 5/17/05 4:21 PM, in article 3evcjpF560akU1@individual.net, "Susan" > <mcfeins@NOgmailNO.com> wrote: [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > Never heard of that and it makes no sense. I mean you breathe air daily and > persons are in hyperbaric chambers daily under 6x normal oxygen pressure. Thanks; the article said it could, and I assumed it had to do with the bubbles. Susan On 5/20/05 4:39 AM, in article 3f60k3F64dgbU1@individual.net, "Susan" <nevermind@nomail.com> wrote: > x-no-archive: yes > [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] > > Susan In a certain RARE case of a huge fracture of the sinus wall, in theory peroxide bubbles might possibly cause an air embolism, but I doubt it.
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