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Medical Forum / Diseases and Disorders / Sinusitis / April 2005

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nosebleeds following surgery

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debtman@gmail.com - 05 Apr 2005 23:37 GMT
Hi all,

I had my sinus surgery 6 days ago and I'm curious about the nosebleeds.
My congestion has gotten a bit better, still a lot of bloody mucous,
but about once a day I'm having nosebleeds. Not just some oozing, but
full on dripping nosebleed. They are usually pretty short, like 15-20
seconds, and usually follow some sort of mild activity like climbing
stairs, standing up after laying, etc. Things that I do a lot every day
but for some reason it triggers bleeding.

Do most people expience this? My ENT says it's normal and will clear
up, I'm just wondering how long I can expect it to last. I expected
oozing and drainage but no so much full on nose bleeds...
Don Brady - 06 Apr 2005 03:22 GMT
>Hi all,
>
[quoted text clipped - 9 lines]
>up, I'm just wondering how long I can expect it to last. I expected
>oozing and drainage but no so much full on nose bleeds...

I had a lot of beeding for weeks at least.

It is common.

You need to have frequent follow-ups with your doctor for debridement to ensore
that strictures to not form where it bleeds.
Steven L. - 06 Apr 2005 19:24 GMT
> Hi all,
>
[quoted text clipped - 9 lines]
> up, I'm just wondering how long I can expect it to last. I expected
> oozing and drainage but no so much full on nose bleeds...

How's your blood clotting time?  That can be tested by a physician.

My blood clotting time is pretty fast--don't remember the exact numbers
though.

Signature

Steven D. Litvintchouk
Email:  sdlitvin@earthlinkNOSPAM.net

Remove the NOSPAM before replying to me.

debtman@gmail.com - 06 Apr 2005 20:41 GMT
Well, I went in to see the ENT and we miscommunicated a bit, he seems
to feel it's not quite normal. I dunno... Last night I had a gusher
rather than the 30 second trickle, although with pressure it stopped
bleeding in 3-4 minutes. This morning I went in and he cleaned out the
nose and though he saw the spot where it was bleeding. I got a bit of
silver nitrate and then some packing doused with afrin. The packing was
the expanding foam type and it's not too uncomfortable.

Unfortunately, I just had another gusher. Again though, stopped in 3-4
minutes with pressure. I know it's not as much blood as it looks like,
but it freaks me out and I don't like that it's still bleeding with
packing... I really hope this stops soon before I lose my sanity...
Murray Grossan - 07 Apr 2005 05:57 GMT
On 4/6/05 12:41 PM, in article
1112816466.057948.223470@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com, "debtman@gmail.com"

> Well, I went in to see the ENT and we miscommunicated a bit, he seems
> to feel it's not quite normal. I dunno... Last night I had a gusher
[quoted text clipped - 8 lines]
> but it freaks me out and I don't like that it's still bleeding with
> packing... I really hope this stops soon before I lose my sanity...

Are you taking any aspirin products? Gingko? Best not to take ANYTHING that
can increase bleeding time.
Its easy for me to say, "rest and relax", but sometimes being on the phone
and anxiously discussing your bleeding can increase the bleeding.
For my nose bleed patients I don't allow phone calls - which might upset
them and increase the bleeding.
Don Brady - 07 Apr 2005 06:04 GMT
I should add to my earlier remarks that when I had bleeding like that after
surgery, the way to stop it is to tild your head way back until it stops.

I was told that and it worked.

Eventually it will go away.
debtman@gmail.com - 07 Apr 2005 17:21 GMT
No, I'm not taking any meds that might thin the blood. Last night I had
4 fairly good bleeds with the packing in, so I ended up going to the
ER. My ENT is out of town, and his partner didn't respond to pages, so
I went in since I didn't know what else to do. They were completely
unhelpful, the resident ENT looked up my nose and at my throat and
didn't see bleeding, so he said it looked like the packing was working.
I just stared in awe, how could someone I just told I'd had 4
nosebleeds tell me the packing was working?

I did end up getting some atenalol for my blood pressure, which has
been elevated due to all of this. When I went to the ER it was around
160/90 and it's been around 145/90 the past several days. My blood
pressure reacts strongly to stress and tends to stay elevated during
stressfull periods even when I'm pretty calm. The atenalol brough me
down to around 125/75 this morning and I haven't been oozing blood any
more, but we'll see how I do tonight...

Oh, and I called back into the ENT's office and the assistant said that
my ENT's partner wanted to do a surgery to cauterize the blood vessels,
but we're having some issues since he's not on my insurance plan. So
I'm not sure what's going on. He wants to cauterize, the ENT on call at
the hospital said I was fine, my ENT is out of town. It's all very
frustrating and at this point I'd give about anything to stop bleeding.
I'm tired of laying down, which is about all I can do to keep from
bleeding. Every time I get up to pee I wonder if the dam will open...
Don Brady - 07 Apr 2005 21:13 GMT
>No, I'm not taking any meds that might thin the blood. Last night I had
>4 fairly good bleeds with the packing in, so I ended up going to the
[quoted text clipped - 21 lines]
>I'm tired of laying down, which is about all I can do to keep from
>bleeding. Every time I get up to pee I wonder if the dam will open...

It's moe likely an issue wuth your clotting time and vitamin K deficiency as we
have tried to tell you.
Murray Grossan - 08 Apr 2005 06:43 GMT
On 4/7/05 1:13 PM, in article r05b51t107h0j1ujb07n04hn2m2b0epq1r@4ax.com,

>> No, I'm not taking any meds that might thin the blood. Last night I had
>> 4 fairly good bleeds with the packing in, so I ended up going to the
[quoted text clipped - 25 lines]
> we
> have tried to tell you.
My nosebleed patients do better on antibiotic, either systemic or topical.
debtman@gmail.com - 08 Apr 2005 17:02 GMT
Well, here's the final update. My ENT's partner finally managed to
argue with my insurance and get approval to operate. The problem was
that I work for a large university, and my insurance plan pretty much
covers the usage of university facilities and affiliated doctors. While
my ENT is set up to work out of the university, his partner is not. So,
someone at the surgery center yesterday apparently knew someone at the
university's insurance department and got them to approve it after
explaining the situation.

I was leery of going for another operation, but it had gotten to the
point where I could not stand up without having a nosebleed, so it
seemed apparent it was not going to just stop. The procedure was quick,
only about 20 minutes. I was under full general anesthesia but since it
was so short I woke up quickly and easily. The ENT said that when he
went in, he found a damaged vessel WAY back in the nose. He said he
could see it pulsating and leaking and in his 20 years of practice he
has never seen a nosebleed originate that far back in the nose. He said
it was good that he worked me into his schedule because no packing
would have stopped it and given the size and location, it would not
have healed on it's own. It's never good when the ENT tells you he's
never seen anything like that before...

So, since the operating there has been no more bleeding, which I'm
thankful for. I can live with a few nosebleeds, but when you are
getting 3-4 bad ones a day with constant drippage and a good surge
every time you stand, it's hard. I wasn't in danger of bleeding to
death, true, but the ER doctors just treated me like I was just another
person with a nosebleed who go too freaked out. Given what the ENT said
after the surgery, this was not the case and I should have gotten more
help at the ER than I did. I'm extremely happy that the ENT understood
all this, understood that there's no point in making me bleed more than
I had too, and understood that if the packing wasn't helping and I had
no previous problems with bleeding that I should really get some more
help ASAP. I'm guessing with *most* cases of noseblleds after surgery
it's really not a big deal and will stop, but it sounds like I was the
exception and the ENT at the hospital didn't bother to consider that I
might be.

Ah well, it's all hopefully over now. I've lost 14 pounds in the past
week and swallowed enough blood to make my stool black, but last night
I finally ate a full solid dinner and slept through the night, so I
feel better than I have since the surgery. The other benefit is that I
think all the clotted blood up there was really stuffing me up, after
the surgery yesterday I can actually breath through my nose for the
first time since the original surgery. YAY.
Don Brady - 07 Apr 2005 05:31 GMT
>How's your blood clotting time?  That can be tested by a physician.
>
>My blood clotting time is pretty fast--don't remember the exact numbers
>though.

Steve is correct

This should have been tested before surgery and I was assuming it had been.

The original poster should have it measured by his general practitioner.

If his votamin K intake is low, he should increase it:
http://www.gicare.com/pated/edtot39.htm
(eat lots of kale and other greens).
 
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