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Medical Forum / Diseases and Disorders / Sinusitis / March 2005

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long term prednisone use ?

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michael - 15 Mar 2005 10:31 GMT
I have struggled with a sinus infection that started 4 years ago after about
1 year my lungs became infected ..this started a roller coaster health ride
for me ...many antibiotics , inhalers, and way too much predisone ,,,pred
use was almost constant the last 3 years ...anyway seems alot of you here
have similar troubles.

I found the following on the web the interesting thing is long term
prednisone use depresses the immune system leading to opertunistic
infections the biggie is PCP.

I talked my Dr. into a rx for bactrim  ...what a drastic change for the
better..lungs are clear and sinus is the best its been for 3 years..

I'm still taking bactrim so I am hoping the sinus also totally clears we'll
see....so here is some food for thought. ....Michael

Bactrim, an antibacterial combination drug, is prescribed for the treatment
of certain urinary tract infections, severe middle ear infections in
children, long-lasting or frequently recurring bronchitis in adults that has
increased in seriousness, inflammation of the intestine due to a severe
bacterial infection, and travelers' diarrhea in adults. Bactrim is also
prescribed for the treatment of Pneumocystis carinii pneumonia, and for
prevention of this type of pneumonia in people with weakened immune systems.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Most important fact about this drug
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Sulfamethoxazole, an ingredient in Bactrim, is one of a group of drugs
called sulfonamides, which prevent the growth of bacteria in the body. Rare
but sometimes fatal reactions have occurred with use of sulfonamides. These
reactions include Stevens-Johnson syndrome (severe eruptions around the
mouth, anus, or eyes), progressive disintegration of the outer layer of the
skin, sudden and severe liver damage, a severe blood disorder
(agranulocytosis), and a lack of red and white blood cells because of a bone
marrow disorder.

Notify your doctor at the first sign of an adverse reaction such as skin
rash, sore throat, fever, joint pain, cough, shortness of breath, abnormal
skin paleness, reddish or purplish skin spots, or yellowing of the skin or
whites of the eyes.

Frequent blood counts by a doctor are recommended for patients taking
sulfonamide drugs.

Treatment of Pneumocystis Carinii Pneumonia

The recommended dosage is 15 to 20 milligrams of trimethoprim and 75 to 100
milligrams of sulfamethoxazole per 2.2 pounds of body weight per 24 hours
divided into equal doses every 6 hours for 14 to 21 days.

For the treatment of Pneumocystis carinii pneumonia (PCP):

 a.. Adults and children older than 2 months-Dose is based on body weight.
The usual dose is 18.75 to 25 mg of sulfamethoxazole and 3.75 to 5 mg of
trimethoprim per kg (8.5 to 11.4 mg of sulfamethoxazole and 1.7 to 2.3 mg of
trimethoprim per pound) of body weight every six hours.

Causes: PCP occurs only in immunocompromised individuals, particularly
patients with cell-mediated immune deficiencies. Patients at risk include
the following:

 a.. Persons infected with HIV
   a.. CD4 count less than 200 and not on PCP prophylaxis
   a.. Evidence of oropharyngeal thrush or fever, regardless of CD4 count
   a.. Patients with HIV who have undergone splenectomy - May have
spuriously high CD4 count
 a.. Patients with hematologic malignancies
 a.. Patients on long-term steroids or immunosuppressant therapy, including
patients with systemic vasculitis or other autoimmune diseases
 a.. Organ-transplant recipients
 a.. Patients with other immune deficiencies
   a.. Thymic dysplasia
   a.. Severe combined immunodeficiency
   a.. Hypogammaglobulinemia
 a.. Patients with severe malnutrition

Drugs for Treatment of PCP

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

     Regimen
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Dosage
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Common adverse effects
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Cost*
--------------------------------------------------------------------------

     Trimethoprim-sulfamethoxazole (Bactrim, Septra) 5 mg per kg of
trimethoprim component every 8 hours, IV or orally (for most patients, oral
dosage is 2 double- strength tablets three times daily)
kathywb2001@yahoo.com - 17 Mar 2005 19:16 GMT
Michael,

     I think that you would only have PCP if you are greatly
immunocomprimised as in AIDS or chemotherapy.  However, I agree with
you that the use of prednisone does suppress the immune system and can
cause you to be more susceptible to infection.  I was on low dose for a
year and I now have a very resistant bacterium that is rarely found in
the sinuses.
Bactrim is supposed to be the main drug of choice for it also, but I
was on it for a month with no improvement.  I even got worse, so that's
why I am now on IV antibiotics.
However, that said, I have read that many bacteria that had developed a
resistance to bactrim are now susceptible to it since it isn't used
much anymore, (you probably already know this, but it is a sulfa drug,
the first class of antibitocs ever used) so it is probably a good drug
for many situations.  So maybe that's why you are responding so well to
it.  I had taken it several times before, so maybe that's why I didn't
respond very well to it.
I hope you continue to improve on it.

Kathyw

P.S.  This is only my opinion.
michael - 18 Mar 2005 03:10 GMT
Hello kathy....here are a couple of studies linking P C P and  Prednisone
use ......your view is not correct....   Mahalo   Michael

     Heart Lung. 2002 Jan-Feb;31(1):50-2. Related Articles, Links

Pneumocystis carinii pneumonia presenting as a fever of unknown origin in a
patient without AIDS.

Jani K, Mehta NJ.

State University of New York Health Science Center, Division of Pulmonary
and Critical Care Medicine, Brooklyn, USA.

Pneumocystis Carinii pneumonia (PCP) remains an opportunistic infection that
causes substantial morbidity and mortality in patients who have impaired
immune function. PCP in patients who do not have AIDS usually manifests in a
more fulminant manner than in patients with AIDS. In recent years, PCP has
been reported increasingly in patients with connective tissue disorders. The
role of corticosteroids in inducing PCP is well established in humans and
animals, though information is currently lacking about the exact mechanism
of induction, frequency, dosage, and duration of corticosteroid therapy that
predisposes the development of PCP across a variety of patient groups. Until
earlier diagnosis and a better understanding of who is at risk are readily
available, health care providers need to consider the diagnosis of PCP early
in the clinical course of any patient who receives systemic steroid therapy.
We report a case of PCP in a patient who took oral steroid treatment for 2
months for suspected connective tissue disorder. The patient presented with
a fever of unknown origin. The case is unusual because the patient's serial
chest x-ray and gallium scan yielded normal findings and no suggestive
respiratory signs or symptoms were found. The only suggestive finding was a
consistently elevated serum lactate dehydrogenase level. The diagnosis was
established by the identification of Pneumocystic carinii in bronchoalveolar
lavage fluid.

Publication Types:
 a.. Case Reports

PMID: 11805750 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]

     Infection. 2000 Jul-Aug;28(4):227-30. Related Articles, Links

Pneumocystis carinii pneumonia as a complication of immunosuppressive
therapy.

Gluck T, Geerdes-Fenge HF, Straub RH, Raffenberg M, Lang B, Lode H,
Scholmerich J.

Dept. of Internal Medicine I, University Medical Center, University of
Regensburg, Germany. thomas.glueck@Klinik.uni-regensburg.de

BACKGROUND: Patients receiving immunosuppressive therapy with
corticosteroids and cytotoxic agents may develop opportunistic infections
such as Pneumocystis carinii pneumonia (PCP). This indicates a severe T-cell
defect, but so far there are no established criteria for identifying
patients at risk. PATIENTS AND METHODS: CD4+ and CD8+ T-lymphocyte counts
were determined by flow cytometry in seven HIV-negative patients who
developed PCP as a complication of immunosuppressive treatment. RESULTS:
CD4+ T-lymphocyte counts (T-helper phenotype) were less than 200/microl in
all seven patients (mean 90.6/microl). The markedly reduced CD4 counts
measured in these patients are similar to those observed in organ transplant
recipients who developed PCP during immunosuppressive therapy for prevention
of graft rejection and in HIV-positive patients with PCP as an AIDS-defining
illness. CONCLUSION: Measuring CD4+ T-lymphocyte counts may be helpful in
determining the risk of PCP not only in HIV-positive patients, but also in
patients receiving immunosuppressive therapy. The risk of acquiring PCP
seems to increase when CD4+ lymphocyte counts drop below 200/microl,
regardless of the underlying disease.

Publication Types:
 a.. Case Reports

PMID: 10961529 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]

Rheumatology (Oxford). 2004 Apr;43(4):479-85. Epub 2004 Feb 3.  RESULTS:
Detection of P. carinii DNA by PCR was significantly more sensitive than
cytology; 54.5% patients were positive by PCR and only 4.5% by cytology. The
prevalence of PCP was higher than previously considered and was especially
high in patients receiving > 30 mg/day prednisolone with or without other
immunosuppressants.

CONCLUSIONS: PCP may complicate a variety of immunocompromised states
especially autoimmune diseases and hematologic malignancy. Patients who
receive corticosteroids and/or cytotoxic drugs should receive primary PCP
prophylaxis. The mortality rate is high especially in severe cases that need
mechanical ventilation. Intensive care and close monitoring are needed for
these patients.

PMID: 12948254 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]

CONCLUSION: Although these results do not suggest that premorbid
administration of corticosteroids is the only factor that contributes to the
development of P. carinii pneumonia in these patients, they show that, in
this large consecutive series, systemic corticosteroid therapy, even in
moderate doses, was administered to most patients during the month preceding
the onset of P. carinii pneumonia. Consideration should be given to
instituting P. carinii prophylaxis (when not contra-indicated) in patients
for whom prolonged systemic corticosteroid therapy is prescribed.  PMID:
8538233 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]

Pneumocystis carinii pneumonia in patients with ulcerative colitis treated
with corticosteroids.

Bernstein CN, Kolodny M, Block E, Shanahan F.

Department of Medicine, University of California, Los Angeles.

Today, Pneumocystis carinii pneumonia (PCP) is typically associated with
AIDS. However, in the pre-AIDS era, PCP was known to be associated with
various immunodeficiency states, malignancies, and immunosuppressive
therapy, particularly the use of corticosteroids. PCP has been reported to
occur during immuno-suppressive therapy of some chronic inflammatory states,
but it has never been reported in patients with inflammatory bowel disease.
We report two patients with ulcerative colitis who developed PCP during
high-dose corticosteroid therapy, and review the literature regarding
non-AIDS PCP. PCP should thus be added to the list of bronchopulmonary
complications in inflammatory bowel disease. This report should give
gastroenterologists further impetus to limit immunosuppressive therapy to
its minimal effective dose.

Publication Types:
 a.. Case Reports
kathywb2001@yahoo.com - 18 Mar 2005 04:21 GMT
My appologies.  Did you actually have this cultured?
RicAnne - 18 Mar 2005 06:43 GMT
hello kathy....Yes cultured many times always negative....however I was
almost constantly on antibiotics....Mahalo  Michael

> My appologies.  Did you actually have this cultured?
kathywb2001@yahoo.com - 18 Mar 2005 18:48 GMT
Michael,

     I'm still a little confused about the  PCP.  Do you think that
you have this or did one of your doctors diagnose you with this or is
this something that you are questioning?    I am not trying to be
difficult, but I have suffered from this horrible sinus crap for many
years without getting a correct diagnosis and treatment until it had
gone too far.  I had to quit my job two years ago and this past year I
have thought I was going to die I have felt so bad (and many times just
wished that I would), so I know where you are coming from..  I kept
trying to figure out what was going on myself.  My PC doctor diagnosed
me with chronic sinusitis many years ago, but it was difficult getting
an ENT to agree.  As a matter of fact I had to go out of state to find
an ENT to do surgery and I did have significant ethmoid disease.
This didn't help for long.  I kept having a lot of post nasal drip
and continued to cough up mostly brown junk and it got so bad that I
too was on inhalers and oral prednisone along with the many
antibiotics.  I was also diagnosed with mild asthma, but since then
have had totally negative methicholine challenge tests.  I even had
chest X rays that showed COPD twice during this period, but they are
totally normal now.  I was diagnosed at one time with a small amount of
bronchiectasis in my left lung, but it only showed up on CT scan once.
I even went to National Jewish in Denver and had a bronchscopy that
showed purulent secretions in my left lung and it was so inflamed that
it bled  (so I coughed up blood clots for about a week).  They
couldn't do lavage from that lung so they  did it from the other lung
which didn't grow anything, so they attributed it all to reflux.  I
do have reflux and take Nexium, but 2 GI docs have said that it would
not cause that much inflammation.  NJ did diagnose minimal chronic
ethmoid sinusitis from a very detailed CT scan  (most of the ones that
I have had done at or near my home town have been limited and I think
they miss a lot. )  They didn't advise any treatment other than
Flonase and nasal washes. The report that I got back said there was
reactive bone formation which they attributed to surgery on my original
report.  However, I got a more detailed report recently that said this
could be old osteomyelitis.
     I finally found an ENT to do an actual sinus culture through
endoscopy, even tough he still insisted that everything looked fine.
This is how I found out about the blastomyces mold and the
Stenotrophomnas bacteria.  I would have never  in my lifetime have
considered either one of these as the cause.  I was on Sporanox for 2
months and since then the mold cultures have been negative, but the
stenotrophomas has cultured out twice..
      I am finally being treated by an infectious disease doctor who
specializes in chronic sinusitis.   I am also having to go out of state
for treatment every other week, but am doing the IVs at home.   He has
diagnosed me with osteomyelitis.  I am hoping this works because it is
my last resort.
      I write all of this in hopes that others won't have to suffer
as I have.  That's why I keep telling people with chronic sinus
problems that they should have direct sinus cultures (not from the
discharge or mucus you blow out your nose or cough up)  while off of
antibiotics. I had this done about 20 times all total and it never
showed anything except a different mold a couple of times.
    I hope that you continue to improve on the Bactrim.  Maybe if you
get the right antibiotic and get the infection cleared up, then you
won't have to take oral prednisone or at least not as often.

Cheers!!
Kathy

P.S.  I worked in an extremely moldy school for over 25 years and am
99+ % sure that it caused or exaberated my symptoms.
michael - 19 Mar 2005 03:26 GMT
Hello Kathy...
           No doctors diagnosis as all  tests were negative ..but PCP is
very hard to test...I landed on PCP at the end of a 4 year roller coaster
health ride ,,I have been treated for everything else with antibiotics at
least 9 differnt ones ..inhalers ---nebulizer--prednisone---countless xrays
and ct scans ....so by process of  elimination PCP was the only one possible
.............Keep in mind PCP infection seems to only affect an immune
system that is depressed  by  constant long term prednisone therapy or other
disease .....So just because you take prednisone doesnt mean you'll get PCP
but the longer you take it at higher doses the more it becomes a
possibility...
I also was on .Sporanox  then switched to fungizone 1% nose irrigation
solution that has to be custom mixed .....I had  4  surgeries and no mold
would grow from samples taken   also negative on the swab samples.during
office visits..I was told mole is tough to grow also....
     I am currently on bactrim but my doc only wants me to take 2 ds tab
daily  however I picked up a refill early and am taking 4 tabs daily lungs
feeling better each day though sinus is still a problem ....Mahalo  Michael

.......
> Michael,
>
[quoted text clipped - 59 lines]
> P.S.  I worked in an extremely moldy school for over 25 years and am
> 99+ % sure that it caused or exaberated my symptoms.
Joy - 18 Mar 2005 05:03 GMT
Do you think your "asthma" was different in any way from what you understand
asthma to be? Like instead of just having triggered attacks, did you have
tiredness, fevers, constant SOB?  Did you have more frequent illnesses or
any sign that you were infected?

Joy
michael - 18 Mar 2005 09:11 GMT
Hello Joy.....always tired and low grade fever ...never  had what i would
call a triggered attack except the one time I mowed the lower pasture
without a mask...almost constant antibiotics therapy always changing to
different one ...sometimes I could go almost 3 weeks before my sweetie drug
me to the doc..I was  on prednisone for 11 months for sinus infections
along with many
antibiotics ..My G P then sent me to ent to see if my new chest infection
was connected to the nose problem ent says yes I think so ..so  at the end
of the 11 months i had my first sinus surgery and more
antibiotics/prednisone .......My  G P then about 2 months after the 1st
sinus surgery sends me to a lung specialist who says ASTHMA .............the
sinus surgeries continued  3 more times for the next  two and one half years
and more antibiotics/prednisone therapy............I then changed doctors
..Mahalo...Michael

> Do you think your "asthma" was different in any way from what you
> understand
[quoted text clipped - 3 lines]
>
> Joy
Joy - 18 Mar 2005 14:29 GMT
Yeah,

I had a bunch of trouble - inhaled steroids were in fact systemic for me. It
does irritate me that they are the "drug of choice" for asthma because when
you tell a doc you can't take them, they in fact seem unable to offer other
suggestions (falling on the antibiotic resistance thing).

Right now I am OK on Singulair and Albuterol, but I know if things get bad,
it will be back to the terrible steroids. And like you, I am facing sinus
surgery every couple of years. I sure would like for them to figure this
out. Come to think of it, I had low grade fevers that I thought I could
attribute to my tonsils. Since having them out over a year ago, I haven't
taken my temp. Hmmmm.

Joy
> Hello Joy.....always tired and low grade fever ...never  had what i would
> call a triggered attack except the one time I mowed the lower pasture
[quoted text clipped - 18 lines]
> >
> > Joy

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