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Medical Forum / Diseases and Disorders / Sinusitis / March 2005

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debtman7@hotmail.com - 25 Feb 2005 21:49 GMT
Hello all.

I'm curious if anyone has had endoscopic surgery on their sinuses and
how it all went? I have been having sinus problems for some years now,
about 3 years ago a CT Scan found polyps or cysts in my maxillary
sinuses. Coincidentally this was about the same time I started having
frequent sinus infections and more frequent colds. Actually come to
think of it, I might have had infection problems for a lot longer as
I've recently discovered that it's not *normal* to be terribly
congested for 3 weeks following a cold...

Anyway, I've visited an ENT recently and he said, like my doctor does,
that my real problem is allergies. I've been medicated for allergies
for many many years (current regimen is zyrtec + singulair + flonase)
and I have been receiving shots for ~2 years, as well as having been on
a 3 year course of shots as a younger child. I have noticed no impact
from the shots at all, though my doctor insists we keep going. Zyrtec
has become rather ineffective for me, I never noticed any difference
with the flonase, but singulair works wonderful for me now. I find
irrigation to be useful when I have an active infection, but it does
not seem to benefit me in the long run. The point is, I am aggressively
treating my allergies and doing all I can there.

The ENT said, basically, that I have three problems. First, a deviated
septum (CT Scan results said it was mild but he seems to think it's
worth fixing). Secondly, I have polyps in my maxillary sinuses that are
retaining mucous. Finally, I have chronically swollen turbinates. He
said that there is really nothing that can be done, we've tried
treating with all sorts of medecines (including oral and nasal
steroids) and I've been irrigating for months now. He says my options
at this point are to continue to live as I have been, or to have
surgery. For the surgery, he wants to do a septioplasty, remove the
polyps, shrink the turbinates (ultrasound) and clean out some of the
swollen tissue in the ethmoid sinuses. Other than that, my drainage is
clean and the tissue lining of my sinuses is in good shape (other than
the mild swelling in the ethmoids), as far as the CT scan shows.

I'm pretty torn about all this. On the one hand, I don't feel all that
bad... The ENT said it's basically a quality of life issue and that's
up to me to decide. I guess what I am most troubled by is that I
frequently get colds and almost always get a sinus infection afterwards
(on the order of 6 infections a year lately I'd say). It is really
annoying and I do not tolerate prednisone well, so I'd love to do
anything to avoid having to take it. Other than that, the two big
issues for me are that I frequently have difficulty breathing through
my nose (not congestion, just swollen tissue, year round). I can do it
most of the time, but it never feels as clear as I think it should.
Also, I really don't think my sense of smell is that great most of the
time.

Those are the main issues... I tend to get a lot of headaches, my eyes
are always red and I have a permanent puffiness under my eyes, but I
have no idea of those are related to the sinuses or not. But on the
other hand, I am curious of how good I could possibly feel... A few
weeks ago I saw my doctor for a routine checkup and the bloodwork
turned up an elevated white count, and he looked up my nose and said it
was full of puss. I told him that well, I felt pretty normal and he
commented that it's not a good sign when that feels 'normal'. So I
suspect that I've just grown so accustomed to this that I've fogotten
what it's like to feel good. That could be wishful thinking though, and
for all I know my allergies cause me to feel a bit down and surgery
isn't going to help that.

Any advice? I am tempted to do it to get a clean start. I think that
perhaps if everything gets cleaned out, and I religiously use flonase
and irrigate, perhaps it won't get this bad again. But it still
might... On the flip side, it seems pretty likely that without the
surgery it will only get worse, or at least stay the same...
Don Brady - 25 Feb 2005 22:00 GMT
>Any advice? I am tempted to do it to get a clean start. I think that
>perhaps if everything gets cleaned out, and I religiously use flonase
>and irrigate, perhaps it won't get this bad again. But it still
>might... On the flip side, it seems pretty likely that without the
>surgery it will only get worse, or at least stay the same...

The really difficult issue is probably not whether to have sinus surgery but
rather who to have do it.

Having it done by an inexperienced surgeon can lead to results worse than not
having it at all, in som cases.   People have no idea......

Surgery at the hands of  one of the best sinus surgeons, on the other hand,
should help you in your case (since you have tried everything else first)  and
have little to no downside...
blades - 26 Feb 2005 02:58 GMT
Don't even think of surgery before getting one or two independent
opinions.  I believe most people have a deviated septum.. usually not a
problem.
--
B

> Hello all.
>
[quoted text clipped - 64 lines]
> might... On the flip side, it seems pretty likely that without the
> surgery it will only get worse, or at least stay the same...
iamthezookeeper - 28 Feb 2005 11:30 GMT
Here is a site Don posted to another query. I agree with both Don and
Blade. Get a second opinion and find the best surgeon you can. For some,
surgery is the only way to better health due to damage done by chronic
disease. For others, non-surgical treatments work fine but you have
exhausted those. Your high blood counts are normal for active chronic
sinus disease and infection, though you shouldn't live like that for too
long. I know what you mean about "normal" as whenever anyone asks if I
have a cold I think, heck, I thought I was feeling pretty good. Research
as much as possible. Here is a start:
http://www.sinusnews.com/Articles2/Sinus-Surgery-Fact-Sheet.html

Trudy
debtman7@hotmail.com - 28 Feb 2005 15:41 GMT
Well, thanks for the feedback :)

I think I am going to go for it. I sought a second opinion, not from an
ENT but from a doc who specializies in allergies & sinus problems. I
figured an opinion from a non surgeon would be a good bet. After
reading the report from the ENT and going over my history, he agreed
that surgery would be a good choice.

I still don't like it, scares the hell out of me actually, but I'd like
to feel better. Or, at the very least, I'd like to know what it feels
like to be more 'normal'. Since we've pretty much tried every treatment
and things continue to deteriorate, it seems like now is a good time
for surgery. The surgeon who will do it was recommended by my doctor,
who is extremely picky with what specialists he will send pateints too.
He only sends us to people he has personal experience with and I trust
his recommendation. The surgeon has done several hundred of these so he
has a good bit of experience.

Now I'm just wondering about what kind of pain and bleeding I will
experience :) From what I've read, it seems like the packing is the
biggest pain, but then I've also read that they rarely use packing
anymore. And I've heard several accounts of bleeding dripping into the
throat and then you end up swallowing blood until you puke. That
doesn't sound fun!

I'm also wondering how I will react to anesthesia, I hate the idea of
being out of it with my fate in someone else's hands. The last time I
was under general, I was about 3 having tubes put in and adenoids taken
out. In my early teen years I had my wisdom teach taken out and started
with consious sedation but apprently would not stop talking, so they
had to put me out. But I don't know if they just moved me to a deep
sedation or switched to general. More recently I've had endoscopes done
under conscious sedation and did fine, but I don't know how that bodes
to reacting to a general. I'd rather deal with the pain of surgery, as
I know a bad recovery from anesthetic can be quite miserable...
Don Brady - 28 Feb 2005 20:55 GMT
>Well, thanks for the feedback :)
>
[quoted text clipped - 16 lines]
>Now I'm just wondering about what kind of pain and bleeding I will
>experience :)
It is no big deal at all - minor.

> From what I've read, it seems like the packing is the
>biggest pain, but then I've also read that they rarely use packing
>anymore. And I've heard several accounts of bleeding dripping into the
>throat and then you end up swallowing blood until you puke. That
>doesn't sound fun!

>I'm also wondering how I will react to anesthesia, I hate the idea of
>being out of it with my fate in someone else's hands. The last time I
[quoted text clipped - 6 lines]
>to reacting to a general. I'd rather deal with the pain of surgery, as
>I know a bad recovery from anesthetic can be quite miserable...

Again jus go to a well-known hospital where they have good anesthesiologists
and you will be fine....
maughold - 28 Feb 2005 20:57 GMT
If you need to go ahead with surgery after all you have experienced so far
it will be like a walk in the park. It is not daunting and you feel OK
two/three days later. Don't be afraid its a step you can make and it may
rid you of this nasty disease, which incidentally is grossly under
researched and publicised for the problems it causes so many people
Flushface - 08 Mar 2005 06:25 GMT
yo dude leave those turbs alone and they might get better on their own and
be careful about the surgery because you may regret it for the rest of
your life! THATS a fact JACK! they say minimal but its a destructive
surgery where your nasal anatomy is altered for ever! Sinus openings are
usually the size of a pencil lead and your uncinate processes are goona be
removed too! These help deflect inspired air and also direct the mucous
from your sinus to drain towards the back of your throat! Try and get the
surgeon to sign a contract saying he will try and return your nasal
interior to a "normal" structure, I bet he won't do it look up MIST and
also MESS these techniques are less destructive but the surgeon will do
what he wants anyhow and BILATERALLY too it only makes sense since you're
under the aenesthesia. BE VERY careful dude I'm still suffering from this
minor surgery over two years later and I saw a lawyer that says no way I
needed surgery but he won't take my case cause there is no "serious"
injury like blindness or "spinal fluid leak or brain infection"

SINUS SURGERY is reserved for cases that DO NOT respond to medication!!!!!

do you have root canals on the problematic side?
I bet you do , they cause a lot of sinus infections but the dentist or ENT
will not admit it unless there is a visible abcess on the Xrays bacteria
leaking into the sinus is "UNHEARD OF"

Dude operations can be staged, that means they do a little at a time. if
there is really something in your maxillary sinus then try and find a
surgeon that will go through your inferior meatus into your sinus and then
close it back up when the mucous retention cyst is gone! I bet its a root
canal problem.

turn the bathroom light out at night and make sure its pitch black and
stick a bright flashlight into your mouth., if your sinuses glow under
your eyes than you are probably fine.

irrigating won't be really effective unless you use  kosher salt and
distilled water or boiled tap water  with a pinch of baking soda and
kosher salt. it should be neither warm or cold but as close to body
temperature as possible and twist your haed upside down as far as you can
then squirt it in gently but with a little force (minimal force!) then
drain it and do the other side , do each side 2-(3-4-5) times and then
drain by turning your head back and forth. You can also try AFRIN a couple
of squirs in each nostril then wait 30 minutes then flush but don't use the
AFRIN more than once or twice a month cause it causes your nose tissue to
have rebound congestion. Try the LINUS PAULING VITAMIN regimanit usually
knocks a sinus infection out for a day or two and there is SOMETHING
causing your infection but its not your turbinates or your inflamed
ethmoids or the swollen tissue these are all just symtoms. YOU must
persevere and discover the difinitive root cause that is causing your
infections and treat that! Don't rush into a surgery that you may regret.
LOOK on pub med or other ent journals about sinus surgeries, the recovery
times they chart are average 28 months and the success isn't that great,
check out mucosal tissue healing times which are now said to be over a
year and maybe longer. The medical, hospital, insurance industry wants you
so the money merry go round keeps turning and your doctor will just say
keep flushing theres nothing wrong while you lose your mind and struggle
to breathe, avoiding all dust and contaminants fordear life because you
have become a nasal cripple! but from the outside you will appear normal
and everyone will wonder why you are going nuts.. Watch out for ENT
surgeons and start researching and becoming acutely aware of your noseand
whats going on in there and cure yourself if possible. GOODLUCK dude
minimal surgery my a.s!!!!!

 FLUSHFACE
Flushface - 08 Mar 2005 06:26 GMT
yo dude leave those turbs alone and they might get better on their own and
be careful about the surgery because you may regret it for the rest of
your life! THATS a fact JACK! they say minimal but its a destructive
surgery where your nasal anatomy is altered for ever! Sinus openings are
usually the size of a pencil lead and your uncinate processes are goona be
removed too! These help deflect inspired air and also direct the mucous
from your sinus to drain towards the back of your throat! Try and get the
surgeon to sign a contract saying he will try and return your nasal
interior to a "normal" structure, I bet he won't do it look up MIST and
also MESS these techniques are less destructive but the surgeon will do
what he wants anyhow and BILATERALLY too it only makes sense since you're
under the aenesthesia. BE VERY careful dude I'm still suffering from this
minor surgery over two years later and I saw a lawyer that says no way I
needed surgery but he won't take my case cause there is no "serious"
injury like blindness or "spinal fluid leak or brain infection"

SINUS SURGERY is reserved for cases that DO NOT respond to medication!!!!!

do you have root canals on the problematic side?
I bet you do , they cause a lot of sinus infections but the dentist or ENT
will not admit it unless there is a visible abcess on the Xrays bacteria
leaking into the sinus is "UNHEARD OF"

Dude operations can be staged, that means they do a little at a time. if
there is really something in your maxillary sinus then try and find a
surgeon that will go through your inferior meatus into your sinus and then
close it back up when the mucous retention cyst is gone! I bet its a root
canal problem.

turn the bathroom light out at night and make sure its pitch black and
stick a bright flashlight into your mouth., if your sinuses glow under
your eyes than you are probably fine.

irrigating won't be really effective unless you use  kosher salt and
distilled water or boiled tap water  with a pinch of baking soda and
kosher salt. it should be neither warm or cold but as close to body
temperature as possible and twist your haed upside down as far as you can
then squirt it in gently but with a little force (minimal force!) then
drain it and do the other side , do each side 2-(3-4-5) times and then
drain by turning your head back and forth. You can also try AFRIN a couple
of squirs in each nostril then wait 30 minutes then flush but don't use the
AFRIN more than once or twice a month cause it causes your nose tissue to
have rebound congestion. Try the LINUS PAULING VITAMIN regimanit usually
knocks a sinus infection out for a day or two and there is SOMETHING
causing your infection but its not your turbinates or your inflamed
ethmoids or the swollen tissue these are all just symtoms. YOU must
persevere and discover the difinitive root cause that is causing your
infections and treat that! Don't rush into a surgery that you may regret.
LOOK on pub med or other ent journals about sinus surgeries, the recovery
times they chart are average 28 months and the success isn't that great,
check out mucosal tissue healing times which are now said to be over a
year and maybe longer. The medical, hospital, insurance industry wants you
so the money merry go round keeps turning and your doctor will just say
keep flushing theres nothing wrong while you lose your mind and struggle
to breathe, avoiding all dust and contaminants fordear life because you
have become a nasal cripple! but from the outside you will appear normal
and everyone will wonder why you are going nuts.. Watch out for ENT
surgeons and start researching and becoming acutely aware of your noseand
whats going on in there and cure yourself if possible. GOODLUCK dude
minimal surgery my a.s!!!!!

 FLUSHFACE
 
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