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Medical Forum / Diseases and Disorders / Sinusitis / February 2005Another Use For Nasal Irrigation
Ever feel congssted in your larynx and trachea due to thick phlegm? When I feel that way, I find that doing a *lot* of nasal irrigation is helpful. The reason is that during and after irrigation, enough of the saline fluid leaks down into my airway to moisten the airway and liquefy the phlegm. Irrigation with a solvent like Alkalol might be even more helpful except I can't tolerate Alkalol. A couple of my friends have found this trick helps with their airway congestion too.  SignatureSteven D. Litvintchouk Email: sdlitvin@earthlinkNOSPAM.net Remove the NOSPAM before replying to me. Works better if you turn your head up to the side, so that the fluid drains into your throat (from where you spit it out), instead of out through the other nostril. (In an irrigation session, I usually do some of both-head facing down, head faced to side (with the solution going out the lower nostril), and further up to side, where it goes into the throat. On both sides, of course. Messy, not very pleasant, and I end up using at least one full 1000 ml Waterpik tank, often two, sometimes even three, but it really cleans out the gunk. Of course, one can also irrigate the throat directly. I'd suggest that on an empty stomach, as one can gag during the throat irrigation. > Ever feel congssted in your larynx and trachea due to thick phlegm? > When I feel that way, I find that doing a *lot* of nasal irrigation is [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > A couple of my friends have found this trick helps with their airway > congestion too. > Works better if you turn your head up to the side, so that the fluid drains > into your throat (from where you spit it out), instead of out through the > other nostril. Turning your head to the side during irrigation is very bad advice and potentially dangerous. My internal medicine physician decided to try saline nasal irrigation after repeatedly hearing me report how irrigation was helping me. He told me that he got lots of fluid in his middle ear and was miserable for 2 days. When I asked him if he had turned his head to the side during irrigation, he said yes. It goes in my middle ear too. shirley a. you don't want to turn your head to the side as that puts solution into the middle ear b. you don't want it to go into your throat. You avoid that happening by bending well into the sink Having the fluid run out the other nostril is what helps the nose clear up - th eflow in the opposite nostril is theraptic. c. You don't want to irrigate much more than 600 cc. You remove the good lysozyme and other good stuff. Before embarking on ways to "improve" PLEASE read the directions that are includied with the Hydro Pulse. Murray Grossan, M.D. http://www.ent-consult.com > a. you don't want to turn your head to the side as that puts solution into the > middle ear > b. you don't want it to go into your throat. Why not? SignatureSteven D. Litvintchouk Email: sdlitvin@earthlinkNOSPAM.net Remove the NOSPAM before replying to me. People have irrigated that way for millennia--neti pots, syringes, etc. Most forms of irrigation require turning head to side. As I said, for clearing out post nasal drip, head to side irrigation, even head facing somewhat upwards so that the saline flushes into throat, will certainly clear out the PND much better than keeping the head down during irrigation. Of course, if doing so causes you ear problems, don't do it. But I don't think that's the case for the majority of people, or head-to-side irrigation would not have been the predominant method for thousands of years. > Turning your head to the side during irrigation is very bad advice and > potentially dangerous. > People have irrigated that way for millennia--neti pots, syringes, etc. Most > forms of irrigation require turning head to side. We were talking about pulsatile irrigation with a Grossan Hydropulse or in your case a Water Pik. This is not using a Neti-Pot. The methodology is quite different. Therefore the advice you repeatedly post encouraging people to turn their head to the side while irrigating is dangerous and people need to be aware of this before they injure themselves. You should at least closely read Dr Grossan's instruction manual for the Hydropulse before you start giving people advice on how to use something that you don't use yourself. So, you are saying that it is not dangerous to turn your head to the side while pouring water through one nostril, if the water is coming from a Neti pot or syringe or squeeze bottle, but it is dangerous if using a Waterpik or similar device? In either case water is entering through the upper nostril, and leaving by the lower one. Could you explain the physiological difference between which device is used, which would cause one to be dangerous and the other not? Do the pulses make it dangerous? If so, please explain why and how. I have done it for years, and never had any ear problems as a result. Of course, each person's anatomy is different. In the instructions for Dr. G.s device, of course he has to be cautious to avoid possible lawsuits, so just in case someone might have a problem with that, says not to do it. Completely understandable. That doesn't mean that it would actually be deleterious for most users. I can only speak for myself, that turning head to side while irrigating has not caused any problems for me, and it cleans out a lot more phlegm, including PND. As I wrote, irrigating with head turned to side has been practiced by millions of people for ages, and I really doubt it would make a difference in possible deleterious effects whether the water pulses or not. (Once more, if you think that does make a difference, then you need to explain why.) I'm not saying everyone should do that. If you feel you are not cleaning everything out when you irrigate with the head only facing down, then you might wish to try turning the head in other directions as well. It's up to you, I'm not telling you to do it, only about my experience. > > People have irrigated that way for millennia--neti pots, syringes, etc. > Most [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > Hydropulse before you start giving people advice on how to use something > that you don't use yourself. n the instructions for Dr. G.s device, of course he has to be cautious to avoid possible lawsuits, so just in case someone might have a problem with that, says not to do it. Completely understandable. That doesn't mean that it would actually be deleterious for most users. The instructions are for patients to get maximum benefit from use of Hydro Pulse All ENT doctors see fluid in the ear from the Neti Pot. In my groups we see at least one a month. Murray Grossan, M.D. http://www.ent-consult.com >n the instructions for Dr. G.s device, of course he has to be cautious to >avoid possible lawsuits, so just in case someone might have a problem with [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] >Murray Grossan, M.D. >http://www.ent-consult.com Hello, Fluid behind the eardrum is usually caused by infection. If you donot sterilize the apparatus youare using to constantly shove water up your nose, of course your are going to wind up with infection somewhere in that area, such as your eyes, brain, sinuses etc. Getting nasal infection mixed up with sinus infection is a common sin among us sinus sufferers. We get an infection in the nares area, or nasal passage, then flush it up into our sinuses and wonder how come we always have sinus infection or worse: brain infection. http://lillyrouge.tripod.com/enter.html http://paminifarm.faithweb.com http://www.geezer.com/artisan/257 Hello, Sorry! Didnot mean to kill the thread. I use a finer than fine mist, as a daily maintenance, and donot let the apparatus touch my nose as i do it. The little bottles of salt water at the drug store are all you need and easy to sterilize. Those are the bottles i use with my own health food store sea salt . It hasbeen a while since i had to do this, however when i was scabbing up, i laid on the bed, on my back, and hung my head over the side, with the top of my head pointing to the floor; then i used same, little bottle and, with bottle held away from my nose, gently squirted the solution into my nose until i thought it so full in my nose it would run down my throat, and at that point stopped the solution flow; counted to 60 or longer if i could stand staying in that position longer; get up off the bed sidewise; sounding the letter K to keep the solution from running down my throat; then standing; pointed my head to the floor; then run for the sink and let it all run out. This was the only way i could get out the huge scabs that can cause infection. Remember this is all done with gravity, and what gravity lets in, gravity will let out. Never never use force, such as hugging the apparatus against your nares when applying solution to your nose passage. Hello, Sorry! Didnot mean to kill the thread. I use a finer than fine mist, as a daily maintenance, and donot let the apparatus touch my nose as i do it. The little bottles of salt water at the drug store are all you need and easy to sterilize. Those are the bottles i use with my own health food store sea salt . It hasbeen a while since i had to do this, however when i was scabbing up, i laid on the bed, on my back, and hung my head over the side, with the top of my head pointing to the floor; then i used same, little bottle and, with bottle held away from my nose, gently squirted the solution into my nose until i thought it so full in my nose it would run down my throat, and at that point stopped the solution flow; counted to 60 or longer if i could stand staying in that position longer; get up off the bed sidewise; sounding the letter K to keep the solution from running down my throat; then standing; pointed my head to the floor; then ran for the sink and let it all run out. This was the only way i could get out the huge scabs that can cause infection. Remember this is all done with gravity, and what gravity lets in, gravity will let out. Never never use force, such as hugging the apparatus against your nares when applying solution to your nose passage. For the proper care of sinuses, one must pick his or her nose until the nostrils are totally cleaned out. You should do this every hour. Do not worry if people shout at you if you pick your nose on a bus. They are all evil people. They are all out to get you. There are many ways that I pick my nose. I think that I look very sexy when I pick my nose. All of the guys really think that I am cute, unless they are evil guys. > Hello, > Sorry! [quoted text clipped - 27 lines] > hugging the apparatus against your nares > when applying solution to your nose passage. > The instructions are for patients to get maximum benefit from use of Hydro > Pulse All I can say is, I definitely clean out MUCH more junk when I turn my head to different angles when irrigating, including to the side, and including far to the side (almost facing up) (with the latter the solution drains into the throat, and is very good for washing out PND), and that I have not had ear problems as a result. I don't think I would have maximum benefit from irrigation by only doing it with my head facing down. Only speaking for myself. YMMV People have also gotten fluid into their Eustachian tubes and middle ears, for millennia, from not irrigating correctly. You are advising people to do irrigations in high risk positions. Where did you get your medical training? > People have irrigated that way for millennia--neti pots, syringes, etc. Most > forms of irrigation require turning head to side. [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > > Turning your head to the side during irrigation is very bad advice and > > potentially dangerous. >People have also gotten fluid into their Eustachian tubes and middle ears, >for millennia, from not irrigating correctly. You are advising people to do >irrigations in high risk positions. Where did you get your medical training? He is just saying what works for him. It is low-risk to do that in public threads because others will always follow-up with their own cautions and caveats, as was the case here. That's why I always comment on these issues in public and never by email. If I am wrong ot leave out something in a public thread, I count on others to follow-up and round out the discussion. What reference do you have about people getting fluid into Eustachian tubes and middle ear from irrigating? It may have happened to someone, I don't know. My point was that if it was a frequent occurrence, I doubt those practices would have survived for centuries. Not irrigating "correctly" ? Could you please explain the correct use of a Neti pot, the most ancient form of irrigation, still practiced by many throughout the world? How can one irrigate with a Neti pot without turning the head to the side? Ditto for many other devices and methods. Also--I did not advise people to do anything. I am not a doctor, was not giving medical advice. I explained what I do, and that one flushes out much more mucous that way, including from the throat area. It is up to you if you wish to try it. Is "medical training" a requirement to write to this newsgroup? Where did you get yours? > People have also gotten fluid into their Eustachian tubes and middle ears, > for millennia, from not irrigating correctly. You are advising people to do [quoted text clipped - 15 lines] > > > Turning your head to the side during irrigation is very bad advice and > > > potentially dangerous. |
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